# Vector potential

Gustav
Homework Statement:
Consider the vector potential
A = C ln( (x^2+y^2)/z^2 ) \hat{z}

a) Determine the B-field for this potential. Describe a situation that gives a B-field of that shape.
b) Calculate \nabla \cdot A
c) Give a vector potential in coulomb gauge, A’, which gives the same B as in the a-task.
Relevant Equations:
B = \nabla x A
My solution for the vector potential ##A=2Cln\frac{x^2+y^2}{z^2} \hat{z}## is:
a) I used the following formula to calculate the magnetic field
$$\mathbf{B} = \nabla \times \mathbf{A} = \left( \frac{dA_z}{dy} - 0 \right) \hat{x} + \left( 0 - \frac{dA_z}{dx} \right)\hat{y} + 0 \hat{z} = \frac{dA_z}{dy} - \frac{dA_z}{dx} = 2C \frac{x}{x^2+y^2} \hat{x} - 2C \frac{y}{x^2+y^2} \hat{y}.$$
How should I describe a situation with this magnetic field here?

b) I just did the calculation of the formula and got a non-zero value:
$$\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A} = \left( \frac{d}{dx}, \frac{d}{dy}, \frac{d}{dz} \right) \cdot \mathbf{A} = \frac{d\mathbf{A}}{dx} + \frac{d\mathbf{A}}{dy} + \frac{d\mathbf{A}}{dz} = 2C \left( \frac{y}{x^2+y¨2} + \frac{x}{x^2+y^2} - \frac{1}{z} \right)$$

c) I was having problem solving this part, I was thinking about using the same formula in question a) ##\mathbf{B} = \nabla \times \mathbf{A'}## and solve for ##\mathbf{A'}## since I have a known ##\mathbf{B}##, but then I realized it is too difficult to solve it. I also thought mathematically that this expression ##\mathbf{A'} = Cln(x^2+y^2)\hat{z}## could give us the same value of B as in the a-task. But this is still not solving the problem correctly. What should I do?

## Answers and Replies

Homework Helper
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From the looks of it, you should convert to cylindrical coordinates. Look up the del operator if you don't know it in cylindrical coordinates.

Gustav
Gustav
From the looks of it, you should convert to cylindrical coordinates. Look up the del operator if you don't know it in cylindrical coordinates.
How should I convert to cylendrical form? Do you mean re-write ##\mathbf{A}## in cylderincal form or re-do the whole calculation?

Gustav
From the looks of it, you should convert to cylindrical coordinates. Look up the del operator if you don't know it in cylindrical coordinates.
Also, why should it be cylendrical?

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Yes, that's what I mean. Find its form here. It should be cylindrical because that is its symmetry.

PhDeezNutz and Gustav
Gustav
Also what do you mean by its symmetry? What is its symmetry?

Gustav
Yes, that's what I mean. Find its form here. It should be cylindrical because that is its symmetry.
Okay, so for the part where the curl is I need to calculate in this form:
$$\nabla \times A = \left[ \frac{1}{s} \frac{\partial A_z}{\partial \phi} - \frac{\partial A_\phi}{\partial z} \right]\hat{s} + \left[ \frac{\partial A_s}{\partial z} - \frac{\partial A_z}{\partial s} \right]\hat{\phi} + \frac{1}{s} \left[ \frac{\partial s A_\phi}{\partial s} - \frac{\partial A_s}{\partial \phi} \right] \hat{z} = \frac{1}{s} \frac{\partial A_z}{\partial \phi}\hat{s} - \frac{\partial A_z}{\partial s} \hat{\phi}$$
How am I going to derivate ##A_z## with respect to ##\phi## or ##s##?

Homework Helper
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How am I going to derivate ##A_z## with respect to ##\phi## or ##s##?
First, you need to write ##A_z## as a function of ##r##, ##\phi## and ##z##? Do that first, then take the partial derivatives.

Gustav
Gustav
First, you need to write ##A_z## as a function of ##r##, ##\phi## and ##z##? Do that first, then take the partial derivatives.
Okay, I tried to re-write it and I got something like this:
## x= s \cos(\phi ), y= s \sin(\phi), z=z##
$$\mathbf{A} = C \ln \left( \frac{x^2+y^2}{z^2} \right) = C \ln \left( \frac{ (s \cos(\phi )^2 + (s \sin(\phi )^2}{z^2} \right) = C \ln \frac{s^2}{z^2}$$

Homework Helper
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What is ##s##? Also, please fix the LaTeX.

On edit: Thank you for fixing it.

Last edited:
Gustav
Gustav
What is ##s##? Also, please fix the LaTeX.
##s=\rho ##, I am sorry about the LaTeX, I am working on it.

Gustav
Now I think I can manage to calculate the curl and the divergence. But I still don't understand why we used cylendrical coordinates?

Gustav
Okay, I tried to re-write it and I got something like this:
## x= s \cos(\phi ), y= s \sin(\phi), z=z##
$$\mathbf{A} = C \ln \left( \frac{x^2+y^2}{z^2} \right) = C \ln \left( \frac{ (s \cos(\phi )^2 + (s \sin(\phi )^2}{z^2} \right) = C \ln \frac{s^2}{z^2}$$
Also this is in the ##\hat{z}##

Homework Helper
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Right. You should put in the ##\hat z## to avoid confusing anyone who might be reading this. Also, conventionally ##s## is ##r## but that's OK if you know what you're doing. Now find the curl and the divergence. Once you have these, I will explain to you why one should use cylindrical coordinates for this problem.

Gustav
Gustav
Right. You should put in the ##\hat z## to avoid confusing anyone who might be reading this. Also, conventionally ##s## is##r## but that's OK if you know what you're doing. Now find the curl and the divergence. Once you have these, I will explain to you why one should use cylindrical coordinates.
Okay, so now that I have my ## A_z = C \ln \frac{s^2}{z^2} \hat{z} ## I can calculate the derivatives:
1) Curl:
$$\nabla \times A = \frac{1}{s}\frac{\partial A_z}{\partial \phi} \hat{s} - \frac{\partial A_z}{\partial s} \hat{\phi} = 0 - \frac{2C}{s}\hat{\phi} = - \frac{2C}{s}\hat{\phi}.$$
2) Divergence:
$$\nabla \cdot A = 0 + 0 + \frac{\partial A_z}{\partial z} = - \frac{2C}{z}$$

Homework Helper
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Very good. Compare these expressions and how easy it was to take derivatives with what you did earlier with Cartesian coordinates. Also, note that from three coordinate ##x##, ##y## and ##z## the problem has been reduced to two ##s## and ##z##.

Look at ##\vec\nabla \times \vec A.## It must be a magnetic field. Can you guess what can possibly generate a magnetic field that looks like this? If so, what is the appropriate value for ##C##?

Gustav
Gustav
Very good. Compare these expressions and how easy it was to take derivatives with what you did earlier with Cartesian coordinates. Also, note that from three coordinate ##x##, ##y## and ##z## the problem has been reduced to two ##s## and ##z##.

Look at ##\vec\nabla \times \vec A.## It must be a magnetic field. Can you guess what can possibly generate a magnetic field that looks like this? If so, what is the appropriate value for ##C##?
Nothing is crossing my mind... I don't think I know what could generate this magnetic field. How should I think to get that?

Homework Helper
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Have you had a course in introductory physics where you calculated magnetic fields for various current configurations?

Gustav
Gustav
Have you had a course in introductory physics where you calculated magnetic fields for various current configurations?
Yes, I have

Gustav
So what I think you mean is that the constant ##C=\frac{\mu_0}{2\pi}##. But in that kind of experession we have a current in the dominator.

Gustav
So we are talking about a magnetic field in a wire that is circular shaped?

Homework Helper
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So what I think you mean is that the constant ##C=\frac{\mu_0}{2\pi}##. But in that kind of experession we have a current in the dominator.
There is never a current in the denominator of an expression for a magnetic field. The magnetic field is proportional to the current. That's Ampere's law. What current configuration are you thinking of? If you don't remember, look it up. There is no hurry.

Gustav
Gustav
There is never a current in the denominator of an expression for a magnetic field. The magnetic field is proportional to the current. That's Ampere's law. What current configuration are you thinking of? If you don't remember, look it up. There is no hurry.
Sorry I meant numerator not denominator! I was thinking about an expression as the following
$$\mathbf{B} = \frac{\mu_0 I}{2\pi s} \hat{\phi}$$

Gustav
There is never a current in the denominator of an expression for a magnetic field. The magnetic field is proportional to the current. That's Ampere's law. What current configuration are you thinking of? If you don't remember, look it up. There is no hurry.
So I have an example in my book about "finding the magnetic field a distance s from a stright wire", the expression of its magnetic field reminded me of the one I got in the calculation for the curl.

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That's the one. Nice work. Can you finish the problem now?

Gustav
Gustav
That's the one. Nice work. Can you finish the problem now?
Now I am stuck when calculating the vector potential in coulomb gauge, A’. How can I find the A'?

Homework Helper
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It's not just any A'. It must have a curl that gives the B-field of a straight wire.

Gustav
Gustav
It's not just any A'. It must have a curl that gives the B-field of a straight wire.
Yes, but how can I solve for it?

Gustav
It's not just any A'. It must have a curl that gives the B-field of a straight wire.
Does it mean that it is the same as the vector potential A?

Homework Helper
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No, it means that the curl of A' gives the same B-field. Furthermore, it must satisfy the Coulomb gauge ##\vec \nabla \cdot \vec A' =0##.

Gustav
Gustav
No, it means that the curl of A' gives the same B-field. Furthermore, it must satisfy the Coulomb gauge ##\vec \nabla \cdot \vec A' =0##.
Okay, I am with you so far. But does that mean I need to think of an expression for A' or is there a way to calculate it?

Homework Helper
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No way to calculate it. There are many answers that work, just pick one and verify that it does work by taking its curl and divergence.

Gustav
Gustav
No way to calculate it. There are many answers that work, just pick one and verify that it does work by taking its curl and divergence.
Oh okay, so does it work if
$$\vec A' = C \ln \left( \frac{1}{s^2} \right)\hat{z} ?$$

Gustav
Because then I will have:
1) Curl:
$$\vec B = \nabla \times \vec A' = -\frac{2C}{s}\hat{\phi}$$
2) Divergence:
$$\nabla \cdot \vec A' = 0$$

kuruman
$$\vec B = \nabla \times \vec A' = -\frac{2C}{s}\hat{\phi}$$
$$\nabla \cdot \vec A' = 0$$