Vinegar to Methanol: Possible?

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In summary, the author poured apple cider vinegar into a cup and covered it with saran wrap. He left it out in the sun for 2 days and when he approached it, he may have smelled methanol. He is not too familiar with the smell of methanol, but believes it may be difficult to produce. Acetic acid is one of the simplest carboxylic acids and is found in vinegar. I do not think methanol was produced, based on the author's cooking history and lack of familiarity with the smell.
  • #1
limitapproaches0
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is this possible?
see what i did was poured some apple cider vinegar into a cup and coverd it with saran wrap and overlapped so it would catch in my little aluminum foil base. i left it out in the sun for 2 days and when i approached it i may just be crazy but i could feintly smell the scent of methanol. i know methanol is used to make vinegar but is this possible. i didnt get too up close and personal with the cup b\c of fear it may have become methanol or some sort of aldehyde, so i just tossed it. so any chemists and this may be a tough one cause my mom wasnt sure and she is a chemist.
 
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  • #2
Acetic or ethanoic acid is one of the simplest carboxylic acids (fatty acids). In the pure state it is a colourless liquid with an unpleasant pungent odour. It solidifies to an white or ice-like crystalline mass at 16.7°C (62.4°F), and hence is often called glacial ethanoic (acetic) acid. In a dilute form, mixed with water, it is the acid found in vinegar. Vinegar contains ~5%; or more ethanoic acid, produced by fermentation.

Ethanoic acid, known commonly as acetic acid (CH3COOH), is produced by the oxidation of ethanol. Ethanol is oxidized to acetaldehyde.

Methanoic acid, known commonly as formic acid (HCOOH), can be produced by oxidation of methanol (CH3OH). Methanol is oxidized to formaldehyde.

look at - OXIDATION OF ALCOHOLS
http://www.chemguide.co.uk/organicprops/alcohols/oxidation.html

Also - look at - OXIDATION OF ALDEHYDES AND KETONES
http://www.chemguide.co.uk/organicprops/carbonyls/oxidation.html

Also check this site for an overview of organic chem. I haven't scrutinized it, so I can't endorse it, but it may be useful.

http://www.mhhe.com/physsci/chemistry/carey5e/
 
  • #3
so its unlikely i made methanol?
 
  • #4
OK let's use some common sense here. Clearly this is not a thermal reaction since I have been cooking with various vinegars (including cider) for more years than I care to mention, and I have not gone blind. So this effect must be photochemical. Acetic acid does not absorb visible light, but cider vinegar is colored. Hence there is the potential for photochemical reactions with the chemicals that make it colored. What the exact composition of these chemicals are I have no idea so I can't speculate are to what the products would be. I would doubt methanol is a product since I've never seen a light sensitive warning on vinegars and many come in "clear" bottles.
 
  • #5
but it was in the sun. and there was the presense of aluminum foil, in which aluminum is sometimes a catalyst in a chemical reaction.
 
  • #6
OK I'm confused. You had the Al in the vinigar ?
 
  • #7
no
the vinegar was in the cup and the cup was covered with saran wrap and the aluminum foil was placed under to collect any type of condensation that may have evolved
 
  • #8
OK so how could the Al have any catalytic effect, outside of reflecting the light ?
 
  • #9
im not sure. is it possible that i produced methanol?
 
  • #10
I doubt that aluminum foil would have had any catalytic effect, from what I remember the cationic form of aluminum does react with water in some sense...overall I doubt that you obtained methanol, how exactly are you familiar with the smell of methanol?
 
  • #11
not too familiar. i smelled it last year once in an octane booster. it has a really pungent methane like smell from what i remember. is it possible that other chemicals could have similar smell to it. anyways i really don't go around smelling chemicals.
 
  • #12
limitapproaches0 said:
not too familiar. i smelled it last year once in an octane booster. it has a really pungent methane like smell from what i remember. is it possible that other chemicals could have similar smell to it. anyways i really don't go around smelling chemicals.

HCl form decomposition of the saran wrap (PVDC) would be one possibility.
 
  • #13
Doesn't methanol smell slightly sweet? Or am I confused? I use it frequently to clean spectrophotometer lenses, BUT I have a very weak sense of smell so I often confuse things.

Regarding the saran wrap, does it decompose in sunlight? That would be somewhat worrying.
 
  • #14
rachmaninoff said:
Doesn't methanol smell slightly sweet? Or am I confused? I use it frequently to clean spectrophotometer lenses, BUT I have a very weak sense of smell so I often confuse things.

Regarding the saran wrap, does it decompose in sunlight? That would be somewhat worrying.

I agree with the comment about alcohols. I do not consider methanol, ethanol, or propanol to have a pungent odors. As for the saran wrap thought, HCl has a quite pungent odor. PCDV will photochemically decompose very very slowly (sorry I don't have a quantum yield for it), but the question would be can acetic acid accelerate it.
 

1. How can vinegar be converted into methanol?

Vinegar can be converted into methanol through a process called methanolysis. This involves combining vinegar with methanol and a catalyst, such as sodium hydroxide, in a reactor. The reaction produces methanol, along with water and sodium acetate as byproducts.

2. Why is there interest in converting vinegar to methanol?

Methanol is a versatile chemical that can be used as a fuel, solvent, or feedstock for other chemicals. It is also a renewable resource, as it can be produced from various sources such as biomass and carbon dioxide. Converting vinegar to methanol provides a sustainable way to produce this valuable chemical.

3. What are the challenges in converting vinegar to methanol?

One of the main challenges in this process is finding an efficient and cost-effective catalyst. The reaction also requires careful control of temperature, pressure, and reactant ratios to achieve high conversion rates. Additionally, the separation and purification of methanol from the reaction mixture can be difficult.

4. Is vinegar to methanol conversion environmentally friendly?

Yes, this process is considered environmentally friendly as it utilizes renewable resources and does not produce harmful byproducts. However, it is important to properly handle and dispose of the byproducts, such as sodium acetate, to prevent any negative environmental impact.

5. What are the potential applications of methanol produced from vinegar?

Methanol produced from vinegar can be used as a fuel for vehicles or in fuel cells to generate electricity. It can also be used as a solvent in various industries, such as pharmaceuticals and plastics. Additionally, methanol can be converted into other chemicals, such as formaldehyde and acetic acid, which have numerous industrial applications.

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