Virtual Particles are not Dark Matter?

In summary, the conversation discusses the possibility of a photon splitting up and creating particles with matter, despite being massless. It is clarified that this can only occur under specific circumstances, and it is not the same as virtual particles. The concept of superposition is also brought up, but it is explained that this does not apply to this situation. The conversation ends with the clarification that the photon does not convert to an electron-positron pair on its own, but rather interacts with a material to produce the particles.
  • #1
HexHammer
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TL;DR Summary
Virtual Particles
So far as I understand it, a photon can split up and create particles with matter, even though the photon is massless, yes?

So if a photon can be more places at the same time, it should be able to create multiple particles all at once?

So how is this not Dark Matter?
 
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  • #2
HexHammer said:
So far as I understand it, a photon can split up and create particles with matter, even though the photon is massless, yes?
Something like that, yes. It doesn't just happen in the middle of nowhere. The photon needs to have enough energy to create the mass of the pair (energy/mass equivalence), and there needs to be something else nearby involved in the event (typically a nucleus of some kind) to allow momentum to be conserved.
These are not virtual particles (mentioned in the title but not in the post). Both particles created are quite real, as was the photon.

So if a photon can be more places at the same time
They can't. They don't really have a place that they occupy at all until they are measured, that is until they interact with something. When they do that, they cannot react elsewhere, so no measuring a photon in two different places.

So how is this not Dark Matter?
Photons, electrons and positrons are all very detectable, not dark at all.
 
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  • #3
HexHammer said:
a photon can split up and create particles with matter, even though the photon is massless, yes?

One photon can't, because there is no way for one massless photon to split into two particles each with nonzero rest mass that will conserve both energy and momentum.

Two photons can collide and produce two particles each with nonzero rest mass, but the energy density has to be very, very high (as in, the kind of energy density that only existed in the very early universe) for this to occur with appreciable frequency.
 
  • #4
HexHammer said:
So how is this not Dark Matter?
How are particles of light not dark matter? Really?
 
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  • #5
Thanks for answer guys, how quantum physics are confusing!
 
  • #6
Halc said:
They can't. They don't really have a place that they occupy at all until they are measured, that is until they interact with something. When they do that, they cannot react elsewhere, so no measuring a photon in two different places.
That sounds like it conflicts with the concept of "superposition" where the photon in the famous "double slit experiment" can go through both slits, through either or none at the same time?
 
  • #7
PeterDonis said:
One photon can't, because there is no way for one massless photon to split into two particles each with nonzero rest mass that will conserve both energy and momentum.

Two photons can collide and produce two particles each with nonzero rest mass, but the energy density has to be very, very high (as in, the kind of energy density that only existed in the very early universe) for this to occur with appreciable frequency.
The man in the video says that gamma ray photons has enough energy to do it?
 
  • #8
HexHammer said:
That sounds like it conflicts with the concept of "superposition" where the photon in the famous "double slit experiment" can go through both slits, through either or none at the same time?
Superposition isn't "actually being in two places", so a photon, lacking a measured position, does not actually go specifically through either slit. In some realist interpretations, the photon does have a position unmeasured, and actually goes through one slit or the other, and still isn't in two places at once.

I of course wasn't speaking of superposition, since once measured, the photon's position isn't in superposition anymore. A photon that undergoes pair production isn't in superposition anymore, at least relative to the produced pair and anything that inevitably measures one or the other of the pair.
 
  • #9
HexHammer said:
The man in the video

In the video, the photon is not getting converted to an electron-positron pair on its own. It is hitting a block of some material, and the electron and positron are coming out of the material. That process is not the same as "a photon splitting up and creating particles of matter".
 
  • #10
The OP question has been answered. Thread closed.
 

1. What are virtual particles?

Virtual particles are short-lived particles that spontaneously appear and disappear in the vacuum of space. They are not observable directly, but their effects can be seen in certain physical phenomena.

2. How are virtual particles related to dark matter?

Virtual particles are not related to dark matter. Dark matter is a hypothetical form of matter that is thought to make up a significant portion of the mass in the universe, while virtual particles are a phenomenon that occurs within the vacuum of space.

3. Can virtual particles be detected?

No, virtual particles cannot be directly detected. They exist for such a short amount of time that their effects cannot be measured directly. However, their presence can be inferred through their effects on other particles and physical phenomena.

4. Why do some people think virtual particles might be dark matter?

Some people may mistakenly think that virtual particles could be dark matter because both are invisible and difficult to detect. However, virtual particles are a well-understood phenomenon in quantum mechanics, while dark matter is still a theoretical concept that has yet to be fully understood or observed.

5. How do scientists know that virtual particles are not dark matter?

Scientists have been able to study and understand virtual particles through experiments and mathematical models. These particles have specific properties that are different from what is expected of dark matter. Additionally, the existence of dark matter has been inferred through its gravitational effects on visible matter, while virtual particles do not have a significant gravitational impact.

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