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Virtual particule and event horizon

  1. Jul 25, 2004 #1
    Was wondering: In Hawkins's " Univers in a nutshell" book, he talks about the behavior ov virtual particule pairs around the event horizon of a black hole. My understanding is that one of the antiparticule of the pair can be absorbed by the black hole. This makes for the release of the particule ( wich is then sort-of materialized out of "nothing" ) into space and for the blackhole loosing some mass from the absorbtion of anti-matter particule. If my understanding is correct, what I am really curious about in this case is: Would it always be the anti-particule that gets sucked in the black-hole and if so then WHY ?
    Very much apreciate any input on this , Thank you !

    Hippy :confused:
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 26, 2004 #2
    So ??!?!?!?!?!?!??!!!??!?!?!?!?????????????

    Anybody workin' on this ??
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2004
  4. Jul 27, 2004 #3

    hellfire

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  5. Jul 27, 2004 #4

    Chronos

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    Pair creation is the simple and obvious solution. At the 'event horizon', virtual particles [a quantum physics thing], which normally annihilate each other in a planck second, get separated. The black hole sucks one in and gives the other a free pass to become a 'real' particle... aka, Hawking radiation.
     
  6. Jul 27, 2004 #5

    LURCH

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    It's always been my understanding that virtual particles are so "virtual", that the determination of which is the particle and which is the interparticle is indefinite. If a virtual particle pair forms near the event horizon of a black hole, and one member of the pair falls in, the one that escapes then becomes the "particle", and the one that fell in becomes the "antiparticle".
     
  7. Jul 27, 2004 #6

    turbo

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    In this post, I raised the question of whether macroscopic fields could influence the alignment of virtual particle pairs. Labguy says no, because the pairs exist for such a very short time.

    https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=28868

    Is there any work you can cite to support your statement that: "If a virtual particle pair forms near the event horizon of a black hole, and one member of the pair falls in, the one that escapes then becomes the "particle", and the one that fell in becomes the "antiparticle"." I would be very interested in reading such paper(s) and would be very appreciative of any links you can provide. I have looked for evidence that someone (besides me) is thinking about preferential orientation of virtual pairs due to the effects of fields in the macro universe. At some point, Quantum Theory and Relativity must reconcile, and it seems to me that this may be a productive area of inquiry.

    As a related query, does anyone here know if there is any work being done to determine if the presence of mass in a locality has an effect on the *numbers* of virtual pairs being produced there? Just a passing thought - could the distortion in space-time caused by the presence of a large mass inhibit or promote the creation of virtual particles?
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2004
  8. Jul 28, 2004 #7

    LURCH

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    According to Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time", and Brian Greene's "The Elegant Universe", the member of the virtual particle pair that falls into the black hole is always the antiparticle, and the one that escapes is always the particle.

    Also according to both of these authors, and many others, the presence of a mass which curves space-time (and more specifically the stress that this curvature places on space-time) does indeed increase the number of virtual particle pairs produced in a given area. In particular, the gravitational differential is cited as a cause of virtual pair formation. Because of this, and somewhat paradoxically, more virtual particle pairs would be formed near the event horizon of a small black hole than that of a large one. If we view gravitation as a curvature of space-time, the curve is sharper near a small black hole, placing more stress on the fabric of space-time, which infuses that area with more energy for the production of more virtual particles.
     
  9. Jul 28, 2004 #8
    what would happen if you made a black hole out of anti-matter- would hawking radiation actually make it grow since only anti-matter can fall in? or would it actualy radiate anti-matter?


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  10. Jul 28, 2004 #9

    turbo

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    I was under the impression that the closer particle (either particle or antiparticle) always falls in (since both have positive mass) and that the particle that that escapes (either particle or antiparticle) becomes a REAL particle, at the expense of the black hole's mass. Am I mistaken?
     
  11. Jul 29, 2004 #10

    turbo

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    Event horizon can pass information on quantum level

    As a follow-up, when one half of a virtual pair crosses the event horizon, BOTH halves (particle and antiparticle) must become real. The detection of a particle or antiparticle popping into existence just outside the event horizon tells us that its analog has emerged as a real particle inside the event horizon, thus giving us information about an event inside the event horizon. Practical value = nil. :smile:
     
  12. Mar 10, 2010 #11
    That is a very good question. My guess is it should evaporate, but I'm not sure why.
     
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