What is voltage and why is it important in understanding electricity?

[fydp014]

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum and am not sure where I would ask this question so sorry if it's out of place :/

But I want to know what voltage is exactly. I've asked lecturers, friends and i don't get it! I know that its measured in J/C, and that its the difference in potential energy between two places. But I don't know why voltage increases current (this is unlike the analogy with gravitational potential energy) and why as if it is just the difference in potential energy, surely the same amount of current would flow but for a longer period of time? Considering the fact that more voltage means more energy for, say, a circuit with a resistor. If the current increases doesn't that mean more energy is being used up quicker? And why? :/ This is doing my head in!

 

[dipole]

Voltage is a potential difference. You create a voltage by applying an electric field. Electrons in the conductor experience a force due to this electric field, and are accelerated by it.

Because the electric field is conservative, the potential difference is exactly equivalent to the work done on the electrons by the electric field. So, if you have one coulomb of charge and you apply a voltage of 1 V, then you will do one J of work on those charges, hence they move and produce a current.

Get it?

 

[phinds]

if it is just the difference in potential energy, surely the same amount of current would flow but for a longer period of time?

No, the amount of current at any given time is a function of the voltage and the load. For a given load, increasing the voltage means increasing the current.

Look up Ohm's Law

 

[fydp014]

Voltage is a potential difference. You create a voltage by applying an electric field. Electrons in the conductor experience a force due to this electric field, and are accelerated by it.

Because the electric field is conservative, the potential difference is exactly equivalent to the work done on the electrons by the electric field. So, if you have one coulomb of charge and you apply a voltage of 1 V, then you will do one J of work on those charges, hence they move and produce a current.

Get it?

I get that part now, thanks. But why does voltage increase current for a given load?

 

[fydp014]

No, the amount of current at any given time is a function of the voltage and the load. For a given load, increasing the voltage means increasing the current.

Look up Ohm's Law

Oh i was confused about that. But can you explain why current is a function of voltage and load? Why does current increase as voltage increase in physical terms? Is voltage the "kinetic energy" of each charge which means it travels faster through the load? :/

 

[Drakkith]

Oh i was confused about that. But can you explain why current is a function of voltage and load? Why does current increase as voltage increase in physical terms? Is voltage the "kinetic energy" of each charge which means it travels faster through the load? :/

Imagine that the difference in potential is like pushing a box. With no voltage you have no force applied to the box, so it doesn't do anything. When you apply a voltage you apply a force to the box and it moves. However the box must fight friction, aka resistance, to get anywhere, so you have to keep that voltage applied. The higher the resistance the more voltage is needed to get the box to the same speed. The more force applied the faster the box goes.

Now, electrons aren't boxes, so there are some differences. When you apply a voltage you have not just one electron, but a whole bunch that will move along the entire circuit. Increasing the voltage means a higher current if the resistance is kept the same because more force equals more electrons passing through a section in the wire over time (I don't know if it's just a larger number of electrons moving, or if they move faster or both, but the fact is that either way the current increases). Increasing the resistance of the circuit while keeping the voltage the same reduces the current, as fewer electrons can move with the same force applied.

I'm sure I've butchered that explanation, but I hope it helped.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Look into the mirror every morning and say to yourself "One Volt is one Joule per Coulomb".
When ever you have a question like this, the answer lies in that simple statement.

 

[Antiphon]

Look into the mirror every morning and say to yourself "One Volt is one Joule per Coulomb".
When ever you have a question like this, the answer lies in that simple statement.

No wonder I'm having problems with Physics.

All these years I've been saying "where'd she move the da*ned Dixie Cups this time?"

 

[Drakkith]

No wonder I'm having problems with Physics.

All these years I've been saying "where'd she move the da*ned Dixie Cups this time?"

Hmmm, not sure I want to know why you were staring in the mirror and saying that...

 

[fydp014]

Imagine that the difference in potential is like pushing a box. With no voltage you have no force applied to the box, so it doesn't do anything. When you apply a voltage you apply a force to the box and it moves. However the box must fight friction, aka resistance, to get anywhere, so you have to keep that voltage applied. The higher the resistance the more voltage is needed to get the box to the same speed. The more force applied the faster the box goes.

Now, electrons aren't boxes, so there are some differences. When you apply a voltage you have not just one electron, but a whole bunch that will move along the entire circuit. Increasing the voltage means a higher current if the resistance is kept the same because more force equals more electrons passing through a section in the wire over time (I don't know if it's just a larger number of electrons moving, or if they move faster or both, but the fact is that either way the current increases). Increasing the resistance of the circuit while keeping the voltage the same reduces the current, as fewer electrons can move with the same force applied.

I'm sure I've butchered that explanation, but I hope it helped.

It helped, but I'm having problems interpreting Voltage as a force along with its formal definition. If voltage is difference in potential difference, isn't it analogous with a rock being lifted 10 feet higher, and force wouldn't have changed (as in a gravitational field, g=ma, m=mass object, a=constant acceleration, independent of location), between the two locations?

Unless, please correct me if I'm wrong. Continuing the analogy with gravity; In an electric field, Voltage is changed by increasing the strength of the electric field (like making the gravitational field stronger rather than lifting the rock higher?), and therefore the force also increases and so will the difference in potential difference at the same time (PE = m x g x h, with g increasing)? So Voltage is in physical terms the strength of the electric field being increased which also gives the charges electrical potential and "force" to use in a circuit? (This is the only thing I have at the moment lol)

 

[dipole]

It helped, but I'm having problems interpreting Voltage as a force along with its formal definition. If voltage is difference in potential difference, isn't it analogous with a rock being lifted 10 feet higher, and force wouldn't have changed (as in a gravitational field, g=ma, m=mass object, a=constant acceleration, independent of location), between the two locations?

Unless, please correct me if I'm wrong. Continuing the analogy with gravity; In an electric field, Voltage is changed by increasing the strength of the electric field (like making the gravitational field stronger rather than lifting the rock higher?), and therefore the force also increases and so will the difference in potential difference at the same time (PE = m x g x h, with g increasing)? So Voltage is in physical terms the strength of the electric field being increased which also gives the charges electrical potential and "force" to use in a circuit? (This is the only thing I have at the moment lol)

Yes this is essentially correct.

 

[fydp014]

Yes this is essentially correct.

OMG I am literally jumping for joy! (nerd).

Why don't lecturers and teachers explain it this way? Or maybe I'm just a dunce...

 

[sophiecentaur]

OMG I am literally jumping for joy! (nerd).

Why don't lecturers and teachers explain it this way? Or maybe I'm just a dunce...

I think it's really bad, how electricity is taught at School level. These silly pictorial descriptions of current, voltage and resistance could, possibly, be justified for primary school but they do no one any favours when they need to get to real grips with the subject.
Electricity is a totally abstract concept but, in today's world, the people who don't know much at all about anything, hold sway. They see it in simplistic terms and they (and we're talking about politico/educationists, here) seem to think it can be taught as such.
You are not a dunce (afaik ) to have struggled with a nonsense explanation. You, and all recent generations of students have had to deal with the dreaded 'dumbing down'. You seem to be emerging out of the other end of the tunnel of dumb - welcome.

 

[Aero51]

If I remember correctly (a dorky analogy I just thought of):
Suppose you are watching a series of electrons racing on a racetrack passing the finish line.
Voltage is the amount of energy each electron possesses as it crosses the finish line
Current is the amount of electrons passing the finish line per second.

So if you take a moment to put this into the "real world" then perhaps it will make more sense.

 

[sophiecentaur]

If I remember correctly (a dorky analogy I just thought of):
Suppose you are watching a series of electrons racing on a racetrack passing the finish line.
Voltage is the amount of energy each electron possesses as it crosses the finish line
Current is the amount of electrons passing the finish line per second.

So if you take a moment to put this into the "real world" then perhaps it will make more sense.

So, if it's AC and no electrons move further than 1/100mm back and forth, how is that explained by your model?

These models are a bit like trying to explain algebra in terms of piles of beans. If you're trying to understand electricity then you should be moving away from these simple pictures. They will only lead you astray, eventually. "Real World" only make sense when it actually applies to a situation.

 

[Aero51]

Well its pretty easy to visualize electrons oscillating back and fourth across a finishline... but then again it was supposed to be a simple answer. If you want the real answer study quantum mechanics.

 

[jartsa]

So Voltage is in physical terms the strength of the electric field

Voltage is strength of electric field times length of electric field.

An example:

strength of electric field = 1000 V/m
a 10 meters long piece of this electric field has a voltage 10 m *1000 V/m , between the two ends of this electric field.

 

[sophiecentaur]

"real" answer?
you mean 'another' answer, perhaps.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Voltage is strength of electric field times length of electric field.

An example:

strength of electric field = 1000 V/m
a 10 meters long piece of this electric field has a voltage 10 m *1000 V/m , between the two ends of this electric field.

It's difficult to relate the Fields in a circuit to Voltages. Where do you choose to imagine the two points to be in order to calculate the Volts per Metre? A circuit could be a 10km loop or a 5mm loop and the Volts would be the same. It would have to depend upon the separation of the terminals connecting the battery perhaps? This is why we use Potential all the time and not Field. The Joules per Coulomb are not dependent on any fields that may be present around the circuit.

 

[jartsa]

It's difficult to relate the Fields in a circuit to Voltages. Where do you choose to imagine the two points to be in order to calculate the Volts per Metre? A circuit could be a 10km loop or a 5mm loop and the Volts would be the same. It would have to depend upon the separation of the terminals connecting the battery perhaps? This is why we use Potential all the time and not Field. The Joules per Coulomb are not dependent on any fields that may be present around the circuit.

I have improved my answer #17 by deleting lot of quoted text. Now you see I just added the length, which surely is an improvement.

How does an ordinary volt meter measure the voltage between the floor and the ceiling (a large capacitor) ?

Well, the connecting wires are of certain length and the same field that goes through the air, goes through the wires. Every electron in the wires is pulling or pushing the few electrons in the resistor through the resistor that is inside the volt meter.

The volt meter measures the leakage of electrons, caused by the pressure of the stack of electrons in the wire.

 

[Aero51]

"real" answer?
you mean 'another' answer, perhaps.

Why don't you share what you feel sufficient answer? In your first post you state that a voltage is a J/C, which is true, but doesn't really provide insight as to what a volt is in physical terms. After all, a Joule and a Coulomb are just units of length mass time and charge.

Granted I can't answer my own question with great accuracy as I am not an electrical engineer or a physicist who's studied electricity. So how would you describe a volt in terms of physical phenomena?

 

[davenn]

I have improved my answer by deleting lot of quoted text. Now you see I just added the length, which surely is an improvement.

How does an ordinary volt meter measure voltage?

Well, the connecting wires are of certain length and there is a certain field inside the wires. Every electron in the plus wire is helping the few electrons in the resistor to push through the resistor, which resistor is at the end of the plus wire.

The volt meter measures the leakage of electrons, caused by the pressure of the stack of electrons in the wire. If a volt meter has long wires, there is a tall stack of electrons in a weak field.

nope, sorry, that is even more confusing ... left me shaking my head
would you like to try again ?
... measures the leakage of what electrons ?
you seem to be hung up on long wires ... forget the long wires, as sophiecentaur, hinted at
we don't have them in a small electronic circuit.
Get Back to explaining the definition of voltage potential difference across the terminals of say a battery
Dont forget a Voltmeter is just a Ammeter with series rather than shunt resistance ;)


Dave

 

[Ratch]

fydp014,

But I want to know what voltage is exactly. I've asked lecturers, friends and i don't get it! I know that its measured in J/C, and that its the difference in potential energy between two places.

So it is measured in J/C. What does that tell you? It should tell you that voltage is the energy density of the charge. Let's take a charged carrier like an electron, for instance. All electrons have the smallest quantum of negative charge. Now because they all have the same charge, they don't like to get close together. In fact, it takes energy to gather them into a volume. The more electrons are crammed into a volume, and the smaller the volume, the higher the energy density/charge (voltage) is. These electrons are always looking for a place where the energy density/charge is lower so they can spread out more. For a wire with a higher voltage at one end, they are going to travel down the conduction path to the lower energy density/charge (voltage). During their travel, they will encounter collisions with the ionic cores of the wire, which will increase the temperature of the wire and dissipate heat. So they will arrive at the end of the wire with less energy and a lower energy density/charge. That explains "voltage drop".

Now ask questions.

Ratch

 

[jartsa]

nope, sorry, that is even more confusing ... left me shaking my head
would you like to try again ?
... measures the leakage of what electrons ?
you seem to be hung up on long wires ... forget the long wires, as sophiecentaur, hinted at
we don't have them in a small electronic circuit.
Get Back to explaining the definition of voltage potential difference across the terminals of say a battery
Dont forget a Voltmeter is just a Ammeter with series rather than shunt resistance ;)


Dave

OK now post #20 should be correct, after some editing.

 

[ImaLooser]

Look into the mirror every morning and say to yourself "One Volt is one Joule per Coulomb".
When ever you have a question like this, the answer lies in that simple statement.

"You just can't train nose hairs." --- Don Martin.

 

[mikelepore]

This is an analogy I use. Suppose I ask you to carry ten rocks. That tells you how many. Then I tell you that you need to carry them to the top of a mountain. That tells you how much work you must do per rock. Similarly, current is how much charge is being moved per unit of time, and voltage is the work done per unit of charge.

 

[banerjeerupak]

I think the box being pushed analogy makes the most sense. I passed through school and then college without ever realizing how cool this analogy was. Drakkith gave a great thing to remember about voltage!

 

[sophiecentaur]

Why don't you share what you feel sufficient answer? In your first post you state that a voltage is a J/C, which is true, but doesn't really provide insight as to what a volt is in physical terms. After all, a Joule and a Coulomb are just units of length mass time and charge.

Granted I can't answer my own question with great accuracy as I am not an electrical engineer or a physicist who's studied electricity. So how would you describe a volt in terms of physical phenomena?

The word "insight" is a bit like 'motherhood' and no one likes to question it but what are we actually after?
My "sufficient answer" to the whole problem is to use the Definition (V=J/C). This is not a cop out; it Works when you need to predict what will happen in a given situation.

I am just acknowledging that the feeling that people 'need' before they allow themselves to 'understand' things is very little more than Familiarity. Use something enough times and you treat it as second nature. A new piece of what we call understanding is no more than using a new combination of familiar ideas in a way that satisfies us that we "now understand it". We have managed to pigeonhole it amongst the things we feel we are familiar with. (If you are really after improving your understanding, you use these pigeonholes as temporary storage, only - a Scientist is always emptying holes and replacing their contents with an improved version.)
Humans have spent hundreds of years in developing a mathematical system to describe / analyse / predict natural phenomena so why not be prepared to use it? The mathematical descriptions used in Physics are every bit as 'real' as the dodgy analogies that people seem to hang all their hopes on. In my view, it is pointless and fruitless to ask for a 'physically meaningful' explanation for anything but the most concrete phenomena (and even then, the explanation is just not that simple).

I have frequently made the point that many of the posts on these forums (some of mine included, of course) merely serve to confuse the uninitiated. The 'worst' ones are of the rambling, speculative kind which use none of the accepted ideas or the mathematical approach. Unless someone challenges them, they appear just as attractive as the more accepted views and can seriously damage someone's potential learning process.