War which's happened during the last 150 years

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Lisa!
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Main Question or Discussion Point

Is there any war which's happened during the last 150 years that you think it was worth to happen? What are your reasons?
On the other hand, which war do you think was a horrible mistake and there was no reason for starting that?
 

Answers and Replies

Pengwuino
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Is it even reasonable to think that any war was really "worth it"? You can't treat wars as things akin to investments without getting into some large complexities...
 
It would be difficult to answer that. It depends on your meaning. Germany started WWII by becoming agressive towards other nations. It wasn't exactly the war it became until other nations decided to intervene. The American Colonies started the Revolution against the British but it would not have been a war had the British ceded them their independance. (*note: I realize that these are rather simplistic explinations of what happened but I'm using them for expediancy)
So you might say that Germany started WWII and they should not have, is this what you mean? You could say that the American Colonies started their war against the British but would you consider that war to have not been worth it? (I also realize that the Revolutionary War took place longer ago than 150 years)
 
Lisa!
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Forget about the situation when a country has to fend because of their independance.
I mean you think about wars which US started in thiis century like what he did in Iraq or Vietnam or wars like that.
 
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Lisa! said:
Is there any war which's happened during the last 150 years that you think it was worth to happen? What are your reasons?
On the other hand, which war do you think was a horrible mistake and there was no reason for starting that?
War is an aggressive act resulting from conflict. I think thats how the invisble lines on political maps were created.

We all live on this planet... the basic needs are as per Maslow and maybe 8 square feet to sleep on. What are we fighting over? Control without consequence? God like status? A feeling of supremacy?.... hmm... it's just a feeling :tongue2:

War is so UNecessary.
 
Pengwuino
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I dont think talking about simplicity makes much sense on a device that constitutes one of the greatest multi-national structures/networks on Earth (the Internet) that probably wouldnt exist today if it weren't for the western worlds need to communicate at the touch of a button (be it for military or social needs, both equally responsible).
 
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Pengwuino
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Lisa! said:
Forget about the situation when a country has to fend because of their independance.
I mean you think about wars which US started in thiis century like what he did in Iraq or Vietnam or wars like that.
We didn't exactly start Vietnam... and Iraq may be one of the first wars where it may somehow constitute "worth it". Most wars now-a-days are to instill ones beliefs onto someone or to keep a certain group of people "in check" to be dominated by someone else. A lot of wars currently, say in Africa, are wars to instill belief systems (or have their roots in it) or to take economic control. We all do it in the Western countries as well... its just that people in less developed nations are more ready to kill to instill their beliefs or make economic gains which leads to wars.
 
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Lisa! said:
Forget about the situation when a country has to fend because of their independance.
I mean you think about wars which US started in thiis century like what he did in Iraq or Vietnam or wars like that.
The Iraq situation is a tough call as the state of the world is too messy to determine who is really at fault.

The real issue with the American public is that this situation does threaten their lives. What is unknown is that it may have been the American Govt who started the conflict... this is a matter of debate I think and thus history will be writ by the victor.

So, in some strange way, I understand why this war is happening. But that doesn't mean it's right.
 
Pengwuino said:
I dont think talking about simplicity makes much sense on a device that constitutes one of the greatest multi-national structures/networks on Earth (the Internet) that probably wouldnt exist today if it weren't for the western worlds need to communicate at the touch of a button (be it for military or social needs, both equally responsible).
I have heard that theory tossed out before and it was soundly debunked.

Some individual pointed out how our current burn treatments were a product of military research.

When challenged as to how much of the military budget went into that research, it worked out to an infintessimal amount and could have been funded privately for a fraction of the total.

An interesting side note:

The UN has stated they could end all world hunger right now with $40 billion.

The Invasion of Afghanistan cost $49 billion.

Where ARE our priorities?
 
Skyhunter
War is always a failure. Even when necessary to preserve the life and liberty of a nations people.

Penqwuino said:
We didn't exactly start Vietnam... and Iraq may be one of the first wars where it may somehow constitute "worth it".
I don't recall the Vietnamese attacking America.

So who "exactly" did start it?

"May" somehow be worth it?

Penqwuino, are you starting to waver in your support for the Iraq war?
 
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Skyhunter said:
Penqwuino, are you starting to waver in your support for the Iraq war?
I'll believe it when I see it :tongue2:
 
Pengwuino
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Skyhunter said:
I don't recall the Vietnamese attacking America.

So who "exactly" did start it?

"May" somehow be worth it?
Unless grade school history is beyond you, you should know that the Vietnamese war had been going on before the US sent troops into it...

And i put "may" because if i told the truth, the ideologs from the GD:PWA forum will all rise up and start their cycle of rhetoric against Bush

Holy crap 5 models in their bathing suits just walked onto my tv... excuse me gentlemen.
 
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Let's remember that science and military are closely related because of the military's need to farm scientists... so if removed from the military, scientists can design / invent ways of better living / communication / etc. etc. etc. ... rather than focusing on defense.... am I sounding crazy again? o:)
 
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did you ever stop?
 
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Smurf said:
did you ever stop?
so how about commenting on the rest of my post? :rolleyes:

for a guy who acts so smart, you generally say little... you really give canadians a bad image... cuz you often come off negative or smartass... i'm not taking away that you maybe very intelligent and realize you are just trying to entertain yourself and your friends, but I'm here to learn and share... not give or take cheapshots... thank you.

.... and don't confront me about americans vs. canadians cuz my wife is canadian. So if you don't want to comment on the real issues, don't comment at all... okely dokely?
 
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outsider said:
so how about commenting on the rest of my post? :rolleyes:
Okay, if it means that much to you. I'll get right to it.
for a guy who acts so smart, you generally say little...
You know what they say; those who can't think, talk.
you really give canadians a bad image...
Believe me, I know.
cuz you often come off negative or smartass...
I prefer 'cynical' if it's not too much trouble
i'm not taking away that you maybe very intelligent and realize you are just trying to entertain yourself and your friends,
I wouldn't really say I'm trying to entertain any 'friends', seeing as anyone who I actually start to get along with and consider and/or do exchange contact information with on PF mysteriously dissapears. (you mgiht even say it's a conspiracy) so it's really about entertaining myself
but I'm here to learn and share... not give or take cheapshots... thank you.
.... and don't confront me about americans vs. canadians
Wasn't going to.... Actually I don't think I even understand what you meant by that.
cuz my wife is canadian.
I feel your pain.
So if you don't want to comment on the real issues, don't comment at all... okely dokely?
Tell you what, I'll pretend to accept that if you pretend to believe me.
 
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I was talking to my friend the other day about a similar subject.

It was about the cost of war and why they are fought. One of the interesting things that came out of it was the consequences of WW2 being the proliferations of new technologies.

If there was no conflicts and all was bunnies and butterflies we would have no incentive to innovate.
 
Nothing is worth war but ever since we exised there has been war..so?
 
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Daminc said:
If there was no conflicts and all was bunnies and butterflies we would have no incentive to innovate.
Oversimplification, as someone else said: Some of the most important firearm innovations were achieved in peacetime.
 
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Nomy-the wanderer said:
Nothing is worth war but ever since we exised there has been war..so?
Amazingly insightfull. Thank you for that maginificent post Nomy. I'd ask you to stay, but I see you've got some wandering to do. Don't let me hold you back.
 
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outsider said:
Let's remember that science and military are closely related because of the military's need to farm scientists... so if removed from the military, scientists can design / invent ways of better living / communication / etc. etc. etc. ... rather than focusing on defense....
It's not that simple, but I sort of agree. More good would come of peace than bad.

(there, happy?)
 
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Smurf said:
You know what they say; those who can't think, talk.
which explains why you reply to so many threads... :rolleyes: o bruther...

anyway...
science can exist without military motives... the inventions would indeed be different... perhaps we would have cures for diseases, or sustainable resources and efficient power? I mean was Gallileo motivated by the military?

Well, humanity continues to learn by making mistakes, and maybe in the past we could not escape the lessons of war. But now that we have advanced to this level of understanding, we should be able to remove military and confront the common problems that affect the planet.

Of course, this would displace many scientist who work for the military, but then we would have to put them hard to work on other projects. Perhaps building a Jurassic Park?
 
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outsider said:
which explains why you reply to so many threads... :rolleyes: o bruther...
Exactly... I find I can truely express myself through writing a way I'm incapable of in RL.

science can exist without military motives... the inventions would indeed be different... perhaps we would have cures for diseases,
Or even better... not.
I mean was Gallileo motivated by the military?
I think you'll find that exactly 0 major scientific revolutions were motivated by war.
Perhaps building a Jurassic Park?
.... THAT'S WHAT YOU COME UP WITH!? No war, all the scientists in the world and you suggest JURRASIC PARK!? :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
 
Smurf said:
Amazingly insightfull. Thank you for that maginificent post Nomy. I'd ask you to stay, but I see you've got some wandering to do. Don't let me hold you back.
:rolleyes:
 
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