War which's happened during the last 150 years

[Lisa!]

Is there any war which's happened during the last 150 years that you think it was worth to happen? What are your reasons?
On the other hand, which war do you think was a horrible mistake and there was no reason for starting that?

 

[Pengwuino]

Is it even reasonable to think that any war was really "worth it"? You can't treat wars as things akin to investments without getting into some large complexities...

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

It would be difficult to answer that. It depends on your meaning. Germany started WWII by becoming aggressive towards other nations. It wasn't exactly the war it became until other nations decided to intervene. The American Colonies started the Revolution against the British but it would not have been a war had the British ceded them their independance. (*note: I realize that these are rather simplistic explinations of what happened but I'm using them for expediancy)
So you might say that Germany started WWII and they should not have, is this what you mean? You could say that the American Colonies started their war against the British but would you consider that war to have not been worth it? (I also realize that the Revolutionary War took place longer ago than 150 years)

 

[Lisa!]

Forget about the situation when a country has to fend because of their independance.
I mean you think about wars which US started in thiis century like what he did in Iraq or Vietnam or wars like that.

 

[outsider]

Is there any war which's happened during the last 150 years that you think it was worth to happen? What are your reasons?
On the other hand, which war do you think was a horrible mistake and there was no reason for starting that?

War is an aggressive act resulting from conflict. I think that's how the invisble lines on political maps were created.

We all live on this planet... the basic needs are as per Maslow and maybe 8 square feet to sleep on. What are we fighting over? Control without consequence? God like status? A feeling of supremacy?... hmm... it's just a feeling :tongue2:

War is so UNecessary.

 

[Pengwuino]

I don't think talking about simplicity makes much sense on a device that constitutes one of the greatest multi-national structures/networks on Earth (the Internet) that probably wouldn't exist today if it weren't for the western worlds need to communicate at the touch of a button (be it for military or social needs, both equally responsible).

 

[Pengwuino]

Forget about the situation when a country has to fend because of their independance.
I mean you think about wars which US started in thiis century like what he did in Iraq or Vietnam or wars like that.

We didn't exactly start Vietnam... and Iraq may be one of the first wars where it may somehow constitute "worth it". Most wars now-a-days are to instill ones beliefs onto someone or to keep a certain group of people "in check" to be dominated by someone else. A lot of wars currently, say in Africa, are wars to instill belief systems (or have their roots in it) or to take economic control. We all do it in the Western countries as well... its just that people in less developed nations are more ready to kill to instill their beliefs or make economic gains which leads to wars.

 

[outsider]

Forget about the situation when a country has to fend because of their independance.
I mean you think about wars which US started in thiis century like what he did in Iraq or Vietnam or wars like that.

The Iraq situation is a tough call as the state of the world is too messy to determine who is really at fault.

The real issue with the American public is that this situation does threaten their lives. What is unknown is that it may have been the American Govt who started the conflict... this is a matter of debate I think and thus history will be writ by the victor.

So, in some strange way, I understand why this war is happening. But that doesn't mean it's right.

 

[The Smoking Man]

I don't think talking about simplicity makes much sense on a device that constitutes one of the greatest multi-national structures/networks on Earth (the Internet) that probably wouldn't exist today if it weren't for the western worlds need to communicate at the touch of a button (be it for military or social needs, both equally responsible).

I have heard that theory tossed out before and it was soundly debunked.

Some individual pointed out how our current burn treatments were a product of military research.

When challenged as to how much of the military budget went into that research, it worked out to an infintessimal amount and could have been funded privately for a fraction of the total.

An interesting side note:

The UN has stated they could end all world hunger right now with $40 billion.

The Invasion of Afghanistan cost $49 billion.

Where ARE our priorities?

 

[Skyhunter]

War is always a failure. Even when necessary to preserve the life and liberty of a nations people.

We didn't exactly start Vietnam... and Iraq may be one of the first wars where it may somehow constitute "worth it".

I don't recall the Vietnamese attacking America.

So who "exactly" did start it?

"May" somehow be worth it?

Penqwuino, are you starting to waver in your support for the Iraq war?

 

[Smurf]

Penqwuino, are you starting to waver in your support for the Iraq war?

I'll believe it when I see it :tongue2:

 

[Pengwuino]

I don't recall the Vietnamese attacking America.

So who "exactly" did start it?

"May" somehow be worth it?

Unless grade school history is beyond you, you should know that the Vietnamese war had been going on before the US sent troops into it...

And i put "may" because if i told the truth, the ideologs from the GD:PWA forum will all rise up and start their cycle of rhetoric against Bush

Holy crap 5 models in their bathing suits just walked onto my tv... excuse me gentlemen.

 

[outsider]

Let's remember that science and military are closely related because of the military's need to farm scientists... so if removed from the military, scientists can design / invent ways of better living / communication / etc. etc. etc. ... rather than focusing on defense... am I sounding crazy again?

 

[Smurf]

did you ever stop?

 

[outsider]

did you ever stop?

so how about commenting on the rest of my post?

for a guy who acts so smart, you generally say little... you really give Canadians a bad image... because you often come off negative or smartass... I'm not taking away that you maybe very intelligent and realize you are just trying to entertain yourself and your friends, but I'm here to learn and share... not give or take cheapshots... thank you.

... and don't confront me about americans vs. Canadians because my wife is Canadian. So if you don't want to comment on the real issues, don't comment at all... okely dokely?

 

[Smurf]

so how about commenting on the rest of my post?

Okay, if it means that much to you. I'll get right to it.

for a guy who acts so smart, you generally say little...

You know what they say; those who can't think, talk.

you really give Canadians a bad image...

Believe me, I know.

cuz you often come off negative or smartass...

I prefer 'cynical' if it's not too much trouble

i'm not taking away that you maybe very intelligent and realize you are just trying to entertain yourself and your friends,

I wouldn't really say I'm trying to entertain any 'friends', seeing as anyone who I actually start to get along with and consider and/or do exchange contact information with on PF mysteriously dissapears. (you mgiht even say it's a conspiracy) so it's really about entertaining myself

but I'm here to learn and share... not give or take cheapshots... thank you.

... and don't confront me about americans vs. Canadians

Wasn't going to... Actually I don't think I even understand what you meant by that.

cuz my wife is Canadian.

I feel your pain.

So if you don't want to comment on the real issues, don't comment at all... okely dokely?

Tell you what, I'll pretend to accept that if you pretend to believe me.

 

[Daminc]

I was talking to my friend the other day about a similar subject.

It was about the cost of war and why they are fought. One of the interesting things that came out of it was the consequences of WW2 being the proliferations of new technologies.

If there was no conflicts and all was bunnies and butterflies we would have no incentive to innovate.

 

[Nomy-the wanderer]

Nothing is worth war but ever since we exised there has been war..so?

 

[Smurf]

If there was no conflicts and all was bunnies and butterflies we would have no incentive to innovate.

Oversimplification, as someone else said: Some of the most important firearm innovations were achieved in peacetime.

 

[Smurf]

Nothing is worth war but ever since we exised there has been war..so?

Amazingly insightfull. Thank you for that maginificent post Nomy. I'd ask you to stay, but I see you've got some wandering to do. Don't let me hold you back.

 

[Smurf]

Let's remember that science and military are closely related because of the military's need to farm scientists... so if removed from the military, scientists can design / invent ways of better living / communication / etc. etc. etc. ... rather than focusing on defense...

It's not that simple, but I sort of agree. More good would come of peace than bad.

(there, happy?)

 

[outsider]

You know what they say; those who can't think, talk.

which explains why you reply to so many threads... o bruther...

anyway...
science can exist without military motives... the inventions would indeed be different... perhaps we would have cures for diseases, or sustainable resources and efficient power? I mean was Gallileo motivated by the military?

Well, humanity continues to learn by making mistakes, and maybe in the past we could not escape the lessons of war. But now that we have advanced to this level of understanding, we should be able to remove military and confront the common problems that affect the planet.

Of course, this would displace many scientist who work for the military, but then we would have to put them hard to work on other projects. Perhaps building a Jurassic Park?

 

[Smurf]

which explains why you reply to so many threads... o bruther...

Exactly... I find I can truly express myself through writing a way I'm incapable of in RL.

science can exist without military motives... the inventions would indeed be different... perhaps we would have cures for diseases,

Or even better... not.

I mean was Gallileo motivated by the military?

I think you'll find that exactly 0 major scientific revolutions were motivated by war.

Perhaps building a Jurassic Park?

... THAT'S WHAT YOU COME UP WITH!? No war, all the scientists in the world and you suggest JURRASIC PARK!?

 

[Nomy-the wanderer]

Amazingly insightfull. Thank you for that maginificent post Nomy. I'd ask you to stay, but I see you've got some wandering to do. Don't let me hold you back.

 

[Smurf]

It's nice to be appreciated.

 

[russ_watters]

Forget about the situation when a country has to fend because of their independance.
I mean you think about wars which US started in thiis century like what he did in Iraq or Vietnam or wars like that.

The US didn't start the war in Vietnam, we took it over from the French.

Regarding WWII, the US didn't really have to enter - we could have let Germany conquer Europe. That we didn't is "good".

 

[Smurf]

That's an arguable statement Russ.

 

[Pengwuino]

That's an arguable statement Russ.

So are you going to argue or what

*gets popcorn*

Now which first, it was bad that the US helped the allies or that the French were never actually in Vietnam?

 

[Smurf]

Actually I was kind of aiming at the assumption that Germany would've won if the US hadn't 'helped'.

 

[Pengwuino]

Actually I was kind of aiming at the assumption that Germany would've won if the US hadn't 'helped'.

Oh well go for it, argue away

 

[Smurf]

Now, I'm not judging, but I, as a preference, don't usually argue with myself. I just don't find it as exciting, see?

 

[The Smoking Man]

Nothing is worth war but ever since we exised there has been war..so?

Well, keep it up and the original premise is solved. :tongue:

 

[Smurf]

Now, I'm not judging, but I, as a preference, don't usually argue with myself. I just don't find it as exciting, see?

On that note, if YOU want to argue with me Pengy, all you have to do is ask (erm, and make a thread... and tell me about it.. you know.. pleasantries really)


(yes I know you're reading this, yes I know I just quoted myself, no I don't care.)

 

[Daminc]

Oversimplification, as someone else said: Some of the most important firearm innovations were achieved in peacetime.

I did oversimplify it on the grounds that nothing is black and white and to get all the facts would probably require a lifetime of research

Firearms were created for war. Any 'peacetime' innovations to firearms were created in anticipation of war.

Rocket technology was advanced because of war.
The Internet WAS developed for stategic nuclear defence to prevent lines of communication being severed in a single strike.
Nuclear power was developed from the A-bomb.
Microchips were developed primarily for military use before they were used by the civilian population.
Advances in avionics were motivated by the need to have air superiority.
Advances in metallurgy...military oriented
Satellites...military oriented

and many, many more

 

[russ_watters]

Actually I was kind of aiming at the assumption that Germany would've won if the US hadn't 'helped'.

Well, whatever, the main point I was making was that the US didn't have to enter the war if we chose not to.