# We could just aswell all be dead.

Seriously, what's there to live for?

We are all slaves of our own being.

To be honest I don't think much of life, but maybe that's because I've never truly been happy. I believe happiness is the only meaningfull thing to human beings.

## Answers and Replies

Well, your post makes me deem about certain stipulations, namely

1. Every organism [on earth] has a potentiality that explains its personal development or movement towards its special telos, or meaning (Aristoteles' teleology).

2. A human being cannot be entirely satiated [or happy] with anything (Maltov's theory, I think).

3. A human being cannot be entirely free.

4. Everything can be percieved reciprocally from different perspectives. (Alfred Schutz's phenomenology, as well as Plato (and not at least H. A. Lorentz!)).

But, however, the question of what to do when you know how things work still maintains, and quite stagnantly actually. Besides (1), (4) is the one that people often forget.

5. It is not in Montaigne, but in myself I find what I see in him (Blaise Pascal, Pensees).

6. The world is often a good judge. (...)

Personally, I don't believe that there's any meaning with life except one that we create, not taking in account that book (I don't remeber the author) which says that the meaning of life is 42.

My thoughts of evolution make me think it is worth considering that maybe as evolution goes on there'll be new things preventing us from thinking we are unhappy. No photographic memory so you don't get tired of everything. Not a good example, but it gets you the point. I always end this train of thought with Why figure it out if it's going to make me suicide?

"Seriously, what's there to live for?

We are all slaves of our own being."

Yeah, but can you honestly say those words mean anything to you? I remember how enjoyable life was when I was really little, I like to blame my unhappiness in my current stage of life on words. If you're going to dissociate yourself from words when you say them, might as well dissociate yourself from words when you read them. Yeah, I just woke up and I'm dizzy.

Shinmyoken
I have thought much about this as well. The Matrix Movies touched on this subject especially in the final movie. Agent Smith said, "The purpose of all life is to end." It sounds truthful to me. The final step of evolution is destruction. The things we do during our life are irrelevant. We may fall in love or find happiness for a short period of time bu then we will die. Everything that has a beginning has an end.

But agent smith ran around killing people. His words were just to make sure the audience understood what was going on. Now you just have to run around saying Shut up and die! to your neighbors.

Shinmyoken said:
The things we do during our life are irrelevant.

Then it is best to make the most of it while we are here. If we are all going to die someday, it is better to live a life that is worth living.

Aubrey de Grey and immortality

motai said:
...we are all going to die someday...
Aubrey de Grey says that is not necessarily the case.

Well, Ive never been happy. I have had a horrible life, but I CHOOSE not to be a slave to my own existance or my own being. If you choose to be a slave then you will. I dont think plato or Aristotele can say anything on this for this is an individual question. I just believe that how you see life if how you CHOOSE to see it, its not by what REALLY happens to you.

Seriously, what's there to live for?
Seriously, things to live for:
- To learn and to use knowledge to change ourselves and become what we believe we should be. Basically, living is expressing our ego.
- The amusement of ourselves and others (which inevitably leads to learning).
- I live for Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

-We are all slaves of our own being.-
How can you be both master and slave? You are your being, right?

I'd say happiness is knowledge, especially of the self. Astrology (I mean the real study of the stars) is a good source of knowledge (both of self and of others).

loseyourname
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
I don't see the issue here. If you've never been happy and see no point to continuing, kill yourself. If you can't do it, then you have some reason to live, whether or not you can figure out what it is.

honestrosewater
Gold Member
Lorentz said:
Seriously, what's there to live for?

Love. Live because you love it. Unfairly, Emotion sometimes gets a bad rap, especially where Reason is highly-prized. But you don't have to choose one or the other; they can -and do- exist interdependently and together flourish.

Lorentz said:
We are all slaves of our own being.

No more than Romeo is a slave to his name.

"Juliet. ’Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself though, not a Montague.
What’s Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O! be some other name:
What’s in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call’d,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name;
And for that name, which is no part of thee,
Take all myself."

Or Hamlet's a prisoner.

"Hamlet. Let me question more in particular: what have you, my good friends, deserved at the hands of Fortune, that she sends you to prison hither?
Guildenstern. Prison, my lord!
Ham. Denmark’s a prison.
Rosencrantz. Then is the world one.
Ham. A goodly one; in which there are many confines, wards, and dungeons, Denmark being one o’ the worst.
Ros. We think not so, my lord.
Ham. Why, then, ’tis none to you; for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me it is a prison."

Lorentz said:
To be honest I don't think much of life, but maybe that's because I've never truly been happy. I believe happiness is the only meaningfull thing to human beings.

Do you think there is something wrong with being emotional? Do you roll your eyes when someone says "love"? What would make you "truly" happy?
Perhaps the reason you haven't been happy is because you have set unreasonable restrictions on what will make you happy. I can make myself feel supremely happy right now by imagining that I am standing alone on a cliff in Santorini, looking out over the caldera, watching the sun set to my favorite Chopin nocturne :) Oh, and all the world's at peace ;)
I would feel happy if I found a new proof of Fermat's Last Theorem, but...
If you say, "I won't be happy until...", you can easily miss out on a lot of opportunities.
Life's not fair and that is suffocatingly sad. So what can you do about it? Fight or fly ;)

"Believe that life is worth living, and your belief will help create the fact."-William James.

Happy thoughts
Rachel

honestrosewater
Gold Member
loseyourname said:
I don't see the issue here. If you've never been happy and see no point to continuing, kill yourself. If you can't do it, then you have some reason to live, whether or not you can figure out what it is.

And this reason may be fear or cowardice or lack of emotional control, etc. There is a difference between living for the sake of living, and living in order to avoid something else or choosing life as the lesser of two evils or not being able to implement your choice. The reason and difference can be philosophical, psychological, and physiological.

I've never understood the phrase, "truely happy". Is there some fake happiness? Are laughing at a funny movie and listening to a good song not "real" happiness?

It tends quite wicked as I think of why this thread have gotted thus long.

But, as I read the responses, it gets considerably clear that you people are unable to 'understand' each other 'entirely' because you 'live' at different levels, i.e. different conceptions etc. Some people have seen more of the 'true' life than some other people, and that 'more' is maybe more than those people are able to handle (and, indeed, sometimes it is as if that lot is adequate to kill an elaphant... or a couple of them, but, again, it is often nothing at all, as it's perhaps with Lorentz; just thinking.)

I think that is meant with 'truly happy' is to be entirely happy with something without any flaws or such, it seems, then, to be different levels of happines with 'truely' on the top. I don't believe that anyone are able to get to that top, but, concievably, just imagine it.

Oh, about being a slave of oneself, it is true. We have to accept that all of the knowledge is equelly limited as the source whence it is coming from. But, you folks, are missing this -- it is a good thing, it doesn't seem to be more than there seem to be. Give it or take, if you like it or not; it is obvisouly only in oneself. No one wants to be unhappy, if Romeo would get to love his Julia, then the two of them would scarcely be any drama.

A man -- capable of all and nothing.

The definitions of any words are surely and mostly known to all of us, in this case I am meaning that of the "slave"....
Everyday, things go on and on in their own way, people go out to work, crowded trains run around all day...I sit still in my room but I still can also see a lot of things out there, far away from me, and that you and I all know is my imagination....We all have passion to do something, you have yours, I have mine and we will do as what our mind tells us...If there is still a true passion to do something, "slave" i personally think is not as what it is in a dictionary. We have our own self-control, but whether or not we can always put ourselves under control is a question for all of us. I think, that is why people say "we are slave to our own being". Even if we are, is that causing any problems ? I dont see the point of any serious problem existing but I am so sure about the fact that if there were no "WE", there would be no "OURSELVES". And that is the truth we all admit...

Different people have different tastes....Since we are all human, we dont usually allow the misery we bring about to touch our heart, we run all the way to hide ourselves, we try to keep ourselves clean so as to get the so called "happiness". Happiness, however, doesnot come from lies, and our heart is the last one to realize everything...Sometimes we are like weeds, like stones, unspeakable, unhearable before miserable people. Just because we maynot know about it or because we dont want our happiness to get stolen or taken away by those we actually dont love...
Life begins with love, love for the one you love, love for the things you do and passion for the truth you are looking for...Is that the reasons for you and me to keep on living our lives ?

Evo
Mentor
I’m not a lucky person.

As I’ve often told my kids, we are not lucky people. If something can go wrong, it will. I’ve had a lot of rotten things happen to me in my life. Things that are really unfair. People often can’t believe what I have gone through.

I’ve also never found true love.

I’m stuck in a job I hate.

I seem to be followed by a black cloud, nothing good ever happens to me.

But you know what?

I’m not blind or paralyzed.

I don’t have a child dying from an incurable disease.

I am healthy and can work.

I am a lucky person.

hypnagogue
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Xiox said:
But, as I read the responses, it gets considerably clear that you people are unable to 'understand' each other 'entirely' because you 'live' at different levels, i.e. different conceptions etc. Some people have seen more of the 'true' life than some other people, and that 'more' is maybe more than those people are able to handle

It runs both ways. What is the 'true' life? Surely there are things that unhappy people have encountered that don't encumber happier people. But just as surely there are things that happy people have encountered that don't enlighten unhappy people. If anything, the odds are stacked in favor of happiness, since the type of conditions that lend themselves to a peaceful and happy mindset are the kinds of conditions that can be created internally, rather than stumbled upon externally. Maybe it's cliche, but try meditation. Read up on it, inform yourself about proper techniques, and really try it. You may be surprised. (I feel somewhat qualified to say this since I have been just about as depressed and nihilistic as they come in the past, and I have a whole bunch of miserable poems to prove it. )

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Evo, there are over six billion people on this planet. No matter how unlucky or bad off you are, the likelihood is that there will always be someone worse off than you. But I refuse to use probability as a comfort blanket. It's OK to feel sorry for yourself. But after a daily bout of self-pity, get up on your feet and do something. Don't accept your fate: fight it! And if that means more suffering, then, f**king bring it on!!@#$%^^&*(!!!!! Evo Mentor cragwolf said: Evo, there are over six billion people on this planet. No matter how unlucky or bad off you are, the likelihood is that there will always be someone worse off than you. But I refuse to use probability as a comfort blanket. It's OK to feel sorry for yourself. But after a daily bout of self-pity, get up on your feet and do something. Don't accept your fate: fight it! And if that means more suffering, then, f**king bring it on!!@#$%^^&*(!!!!!
That was the point of my post. No matter how bad you think you have it, someone else is going through something worse. You didn't read all of my post.

Njorl
I've noticed in my life that I have met a mix of people with "good" and "bad" attitudes. There are the optimistic go-getters who think life is wonderful, and the clinically depressed who fight to find a reason to go on. I wonder if this is just random, a little more of some chemical produced in one person's brain than another, or if it is a genetically selected-for situation.

An individual might seem to only benefit from being happy. The genes of someone who is less likely to commit suicide are more likely to be passed on, not to mention that depressed people also die of disease and accidents at a much higher rate. But a social group (human evolution is a group dynamic, not an individual one) could easily benefit from having depressed members. Having a pessimist around is a sure way to remember that things could be better. While depressed people generally are not more motivated to improve their situations, they may act as a stimulus to those around them.

Or maybe depressed people are just more observant than everybody else.

Njorl

honestrosewater
Gold Member
Njorl said:
The genes of someone who is less likely to commit suicide are more likely to be passed on, not to mention that depressed people also die of disease and accidents at a much higher rate. But a social group (human evolution is a group dynamic, not an individual one) could easily benefit from having depressed members. Having a pessimist around is a sure way to remember that things could be better. While depressed people generally are not more motivated to improve their situations, they may act as a stimulus to those around them.

But who's going to conceive a child with that depressed, pessimistic individual? Who's having more sex, the happy or the sad? Hmm... maybe that's why the happy are happy and the sad are sad
And why would a nihilist have children? ;)

And, in addition to genes, you should also consider what I think are called memes- ideas that are passed around and along a social group.

Njorl said:
Or maybe depressed people are just more observant than everybody else.

How can an empathetic person ever be happy?

Happy thoughts
Rachel

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honestrosewater
Gold Member
I think this all boils down to one question.
How will you deal with the things that are within your control?

Not all happy people are unfamiliar with suffering.

Happy thoughts
Rachel

loseyourname
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
I would say happiness can probably be correlated somehow to empowerment. Regardless of the situation you may be in, if you feel you can do something about it, you will be all right. Depression is more a matter of helplessness than unhappiness. This is why I don't think I've ever really been depressed, even though I've been very unhappy. I've always known it would pass. A happy person doesn't need to be happy all the time.

honestrosewater
Gold Member
"Hamlet (to Horatio). Since my dear soul was mistress of her choice
And could of men distinguish, her election
Hath seal'd thee for herself; for thou hast been
As one, in suffering all, that suffers nothing,
A man that fortune's buffets and rewards
Hast ta'en with equal thanks: and blest are those
Whose blood and judgment are so well commingled,
That they are not a pipe for fortune's finger
To sound what stop she please. Give me that man
That is not passion's slave, and I will wear him
In my heart's core, ay, in my heart of heart,
As I do thee."

It sounds like you're on the verge of that view. I think the distinction to make is that even when you *are* helpless in some regard, you may still be able to control the effect it has on you. You can do this by paying attention to, and being selective of what ideas and emotions you associate with certain situations, for instance, situations invloving fortune/chance/luck. And you don't have to completely dissociate yourself from the world, either. It's kind of an extension of staying calm in an emergency.
If you're interested, you can start exploring these ideas by reading Chapter 1 here
http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/discourses.1.one.html
I'm not yet very familiar with "eastern" philosphies, but I believe attachment in Buddhism is a similar idea.
Of course, you may be perfectly happy with your current view- your prerogative :)
Happy thoughts
Rachel

p-brane
Is there something that makes you think its any easier or different to be dead as compared to being alive?

Does the bible make being dead sound cool?

Do you know someone who's dead and is telling you its a great time?

Is there a "point" (whatever that is) to being dead and no "point" to being alive?

If your leaving, have a nice trip.

Happy Mother's Day