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What comes first

  1. Jun 10, 2005 #1
    the f-ed up life, or the f-ed up person?

    i've been in and out of therapy since i was 6. now, this i find curious... a 6 year old in therapy... does that really make sense? does that mean i was crazy already... so young?

    does something happen to a person that makes them crazy? i mean, i know i've had a lot, A LOT, of messed up things happen to me. but did i bring in on myself? was i messed up to begin with, and thus have led a messed up life?

    are 'normal' people born normal? and thus have normal lives?

    i'm sure there are occaions when out of the ordinary normalness... or craziness occurs to the crazy... or normal, (respectively,) person. actually, i take that back, craziness can happen to a normal person... but normalness... i don't think a crazy person can really have something normal happen... because its always veiwed from an abnormal context... so therefore its always abnormal by virtue.

    anyway. self destructive people... always have ****ty lives... because they make it that way. right? or, were their lives crummy to begin with, and thus they developed a mind set that their life was always supposed to be crummy?

    i guess thats how it is with personality disorders eh? how can you tell really... are you born with that disorder, or is it developed? i think it must be hard to tell... especially if you went to therapy at 6.
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 10, 2005 #2


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    I'm sure it can happen either way. A person that is simply born with mental illness is going to have difficulty leading a normal life, and the events stemming from the illness will most likely only serve to reinforce that illness. I highly doubt, however, that every person that is mentally ill was born that way. The more probable scenario is that you were born predisposed to certain types of mental illness and that events if your early childhood served to activate those predispositions. From that point forward however, it is often thought that a person seeks resolution to past trauma by reenactment, subconsciously seeking similar situations (abused by father - you'll find an abusive boyfriend, etc.) in an attempt to gain control over that trauma. Needless to say, this never works and the trauma is only worsened. I would imagine that your rough life is partially the result of happenstance - bad luck - and partially the result of this tragic flaw that traumatized persons have.

    This is a question for psychology, though, not for philosophy. This is not an area of expertise for me, by the way, so don't take my word on this. I just listen to a lot of Love Line and it seems like half the people I know are either professional psychologists or psychology students, so I pick up the basics.
  4. Jun 10, 2005 #3


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    What exactly required therapy at age 6, if you don't mind me asking?
  5. Jun 10, 2005 #4
    6 years is long enough to experience some fair damage, in a psychological sense. Especially in an infant and toddler. They're sensitivity is very high in those years.

    There are two ways to see the "what came first construct".

    To begin with: between -9mo and +6yr you are developing according to the genetic instructions of your parents combined DNA contributions. One parent's group of genes will undoubtedly effect your growth more than the other parent's. The development you experience determines your physical capacity as a human. This includes brain function and types of brain activity that are inherent with the genes you have inherited.

    The agility of your neurons (brain cells and nerve cells) is, for the most part, determined by your genetic inheritance and therefore the way you interact and respond to stimulus is also largely determined by a.) previous experience with stimulus and b.) agility of neuronal responses.

    In other words how you processed events and responded to events during your first 6 years had a lot to do with what you inherited from your parents. This is also paired with the fact that, presumably, your parents were the ones that showed you how to react to such situations and stimuli ensuring a repetition of methods which may or may not be effectual.

    This brings me to the second way of seeing the question of "what came first?" which is to say, its hard to know, really. There are so many factors but it all does boil down to how well you were able to adapt and maintain a self-determination in the face of the whatever situations you found yourself in with family members or as an orphan etc.

    There are examples of "well adjusted" people who started life as an orphan/refugee/holocost survivor.

    And there are examples of liars/thieves who come from large and fortunate families.

    Personally I'd say that "what comes last" is what really counts because "what comes first" is probably a large network of components that is too complex to identify as one source of one's misadventures.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2005
  6. Jun 11, 2005 #5
    "because a bad person doesn't worry about being bad" you sure about that?
  7. Jun 11, 2005 #6
    well... don't laugh... apparently i was obsessed with sex. i can't tell you much about it, i don't remember hardly anything. at any rate i'm sorta touchy and embarrased about it..

    the problem is trying to come to grips with the past. why did things happen? is it my fault? was it inevitable? will things continue that way? how is it possible to be happy after all this? am i self destructive? do i deserve happiness?

    if someone really has a personality disorder, or a mental illness... what possibilities does that leave?

    f-ed up person, f-ed up life... does one imply the other?
  8. Jun 11, 2005 #7
    Of course you do. It is up to you, to choose, and work towards happiness as a life style.
    With the preponderance of bad things that can happen to us all, its a wonder that any of us can survive to adulthood.
    Some baggage from our childhood, just has to be let go. You don't need to carry such a heavy load forever.
    So many things as a child are out of our control. And if we had no control, then we cant blame the child, nor should the child blame himself.
    Will negative things continue to happen in your life? Yes, they will.
    The trick is to spend more time enjoying the simple good things that are in your life. And work hard to create more good things. Yes, being happy requires some work.
    Is it normal to feel that lifes messed up when your 17? Yes it is.
  9. Jun 11, 2005 #8

    "if someone really has a personality disorder, or a mental illness... what possibilities does that leave?"

    The possibilities that 99 to 100% of all people have.

    Its what you become with the curcumstances you have....

    rather than letting what you "have" determine what you become. That's self determination for you, in a nutshell.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2005
  10. Jun 12, 2005 #9
    whats wrong with being obsessed with sex :wink:
    perhaps it was a hormone imblance.

    look;who cares what happend in the past.why do you even need to come to grips with it.its smiply a waste of time,valueable brain power,and emotionaly draining.their is no future in living in the past.

    you will drive yourself crazy thinking about; why did things happen,was it my fault.whats happened,..is what it is...no matter why, it happened.or who caused it.pondering on it will never change it. you can make a better future,by trying ,to gain control over events in yor life, today.

    It dose'nt matter if you deserve to be happy or not,its all about do you want to be happy..

    will things continue that way you ask? I say no!! nothing ever stays the same.
    I dont even know,or care about the person I was just 10 years ago..or even 5 years..I've changed so much....I cant even remember that person.

    how is it possiable to be happy after all this you ask...by not thinking about it.. stay too busy,to dwell on those things.
    by always moving forward..by keeping a postive attitude.. by knowing your life is always changing...grab the *G.D*steering wheel of life...and drive baby drive....:smile:
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2005
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