The Mystery of Existence: Exploring the Concept of a Creator in Our Universe

[Zygotic Embryo]

Real or Fake


Think of time and space. Life forms. And everything in our universe.

Was all this created? by one supernatural being.


What are your thoughts on why we and everything along with us is here

 

[sage]

universe always existed in some form or the other. it evolved according to laws of physics. nobody created the universe and hence there is no god.we have no intrinsic purpose of existence, and hence are free define one for ourselves.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Why one supernatural being? Why not many? And don't say Okham - Okham's razor suggests none at all.

 

[Pengwuino]

Ill save you the trouble of 10 pointless pages

"No, no one created the universe"
"then whered it come from"
"i dunno, wheres god?"
"I dunno, vegas?"

 

[mathwonk]

i think he/she did a NICE JOB BUILDING IT, BUT IT SEEMS THE MAINTENANCE IS GOING TO HECK.\, AND THE CARETAKERS WERE EXTREMELY POORLY SELECTED.

 

[Pengwuino]

lol god was very conservative on his oversight capabilities

and look what's happened :-/

 

[Kerrie]

i believe all "god" really is is the energy that makes everything alive and move-what's a body without it being "alive"? what is Earth and all celestial objects without the gravitational pull that exists? i don't think "god" is one or many, but what is.

 

[JamesU]

I am so sick of this conversation. People are saying that science disproves the whole theory of god, and while I believe both science and god, there is no way to say if science is right. what we define as "right" is based on human's common logic, which could just be extremely confusing to another entity.

 

[Jameson]

What people?

 

[yourdadonapogostick]

god is just an error made by someone who is dyslexic. one day, long ago, a dyslexic man received a letter. this letter was about his dog. he got mixed up and thought it was about god. it's all right here: http://www.lysdexia.moc

 

[gonpost]

Maybe it's just me, but aren't there a bazillion threads on this already?

I mean, unless you're looking to gather the view of each individual here for some reason, this will be rather fruitless, seeing as what's to be talked about has mostly been talked about, that is, unless you can bring something new and inventive to the conversation...

Just saying, since the maker's new here.

 

[BobG]

People are saying that science disproves the whole theory of god, and while I believe both science and god, there is no way to say if science is right.

First off, science neither proves nor disproves the existence of god (although it does disprove many things written in religious books). That makes your second point ("there is no way to say if science is right") irrelevant as well as wrong.

Science attempts to explain what we observe in the universe and scientific theories that don't match what we can observe are soon discarded. In other words, there usually are ways to say if science is right or wrong (even if we sometimes have to wait quite awhile for the technological capability to catch up so we can prove or disprove a theory). Some current theories will turn out to be wrong but many are right beyond the shadow of a doubt.

If one wants to believe in God, they could interpret science as revealing the details of how God created the universe and, if especially creative, find some message in the mechanics of the universe that reveal God's motivation for creating the universe. That would basically be a more sophisticated version of the religious writings currently in existence, since these explained the universe using the level of science for their own time. (Hopefully, the writer would learn from other religions' experiences and take some care not to let the core of his religion balance on a 'fact' of science that may later turn out to be wrong)

If one doesn't want to believe in God, they could believe in only the things that they can see and prove. Thinking of things beyond proof are a waste of time since there will never be any way to determine a 'right' answer.

Interestingly, one of the most important affects of religion is to affect the behavior of its believers. A person believing only in science could come to the same conclusions about the desired behaviors with no reference to a God. Simply put, most lasting religions are very common sense oriented and promote social behaviors that benefit their community. (God seems to like humans to behave in a way that improves the chances of civilization surviving). Of course, religion is also accused of motivating some very bad human behavior (the crusades, jihadist terrorism). But then, some pretty questionable behavior has been motivated by science as well (testing the effects of nuclear fallout on humans, German experiments during WWII).

Of course, science does have a problem addressing some human needs that religion can fill very capably. Humans aren't logical creatures - a great deal of human emotion is totally irrational and to deny that irrationality is to deny your humaness (something Bicycle Tree seems to be learning rather painfully in a few other threads - too much logic can result in open hostility). Science and math have a problem providing emotional support for the irrational side of humans.

 

[Evo]

Maybe it's just me, but aren't there a bazillion threads on this already?

Yes, this is god thread number bazillion one.

 

[Pengwuino]

Yes, this is god thread number bazillion one.

I guess people don't read the stickys... or wait, is the sticky in value theory?

 

[pattylou]

Maybe it's an opportunity to turn the question into something new.

Ummmm...

What are the things that make people question whether God really exists? (or accept him?) What sorts of events are responsible for people accepting God?

With a very broad brush, I'd guess rationality leads away from faith in God, and subjective experience leads towards faith.

(I know, not really much new, but I'm bored.)

 

[ron damon]

I believe thinking of God in terms of causation is pointless. Read "Immanuel Kant - Critique of Pure Reason".

What is relevant though is the moral and spiritual meaning of being alive. Is there Good and Evil? In Dostoevsky's novels atheists end up killing themselves... Let me ask you, after my namesake in the Karamazov Brothers, the following: if the redemption of the entire human race rested upon the torture of a single innocent child, would you think it worthwhile?

If you think too hard about the above, you'll find yourself descending into dark abysses of desperation...

 

[Smasherman]

Hmm... There are many different views of deities. I'll assume you're referring to the god of Abraham. I'm agnostic because it's impossible to truly know anything about God. I don't consider written texts or personal experiences (even my own) to be proof. So I consider God (or whatever) to be unknowable and leave it at that. It's been my experience that religion makes some people kinder to others while it makes others crueler. No one belief system works for everybody, so I hope everyone gets a chance to explore religion.

I'm not sure how this fits into this thread, but anyway:

Ron Damon, my class had to read a short story (Those Who Walk Away From Omelas, I think) about a happy town whose happiness rested entirely upon the torture and ignorance of a single innocent child. Afterwards everyone had to decide as to whether or not they'd leave Omelas. Most people chose to stay, though some left (I chose to leave).

 

[Dr.Brain]

God exists and has no physical form.

BJ

 

[Gokul43201]

With a very broad brush, I'd guess rationality leads away from faith in God, and subjective experience leads towards faith.

Patty, what is a "subjective experience"? Would you please elaborate ?

I agree (somewhat, with part of) BobG's opinion : God fills a need for irrationality. It's too hard living life rationally.

PS : IMO, rationality does not preclude sensitivity. In fact, quite the contrary, it takes rational thought to be sensitive.

 

[pattylou]

Patty, what is a "subjective experience"? Would you please elaborate ?

An acquiantance claims to have been suicidal, and "found God" through a conversion experience during that period.

Nothing can convince her that the experience could possibly be anything other than God manifesting himself to her, She is now an evangelical fundamentalist.

That is an example of a subjective experience - and she claims that no amount of rationality arguing against God will have any affect on her beliefs.

 

[Gokul43201]

An acquiantance claims to have been suicidal, and "found God" through a conversion experience during that period.

Nothing can convince her that the experience could possibly be anything other than God manifesting himself to her, She is now an evangelical fundamentalist.

That is an example of a subjective experience - and she claims that no amount of rationality arguing against God will have any affect on her beliefs.

I too know of someone with a similar story. However, I can't imagine that such cases are anything more than a smallish minority among the entire population of believers ! I think a reasonably large fraction grow up being taught to believe in a God.

 

[saltydog]

It's a simple equation for me. No grey areas at all. I think history has a lot to do with it though. What a demon-haunted world we live in: So fragile. Us I mean. Tough in other ways though, man and woman; those which I admire most: strength, endurance, perservance, plasticity, others. Not so with beliefs in supernatural powers. It's just not there. But that does not make the world less beautiful, less desirable, less purposeful for me but rather the contrary: when I die I will consider it an honor to have contributed to such a rich lineage as is the 100,000 generations that have gone before me.

 

[Mk]

Real or Fake


Think of time and space. Life forms. And everything in our universe.

Was all this created? by one supernatural being.


What are your thoughts on why we and everything along with us is here

A few months ago, I had an incredible revelation (but credible)! And it proved to me, that there is no possibility whatsoever that a God can exist. However, in the next hour or so, I completely forgot it. :grumpy: Damn it! I still become angered when I think of it. Next time something like that happens I'll write it down and ask people what they think of it.! GAHHS!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I have always found that notion of a conscious universe interesting. One can also imagine that this would meet the Biblical criteria, for the most part.

Could random events really just be an indication of attitude?

Another idea that struck me one night while listening to Kaku, I would guess, is that if there is a multiverse, what might be the limits for a species that makes type IV [billions of years of technology] and manages to go beyond its' own spacetime in a so called bubble universe [not my ideas]? Could there be "beings" in the multiverse that are older than our own universe? Based on some of the wilder speculation found among some scientists, the idea of what we mean by a "god" is not so clear given that trillions of years [if not much nigher orders of magnitude by our measure] of evolution and technological development might be imagined as possible.

...anyway, just for fun...

 

[Mk]

Real or Fake


Think of time and space. Life forms. And everything in our universe.

Was all this created? by one supernatural being.


What are your thoughts on why we and everything along with us is here

A few months ago, I had an incredible revelation (but credible)! And it proved to me, that there is no possibility whatsoever that a God can exist. However, in the next hour or so, I completely forgot it. :grumpy: Damn it! I still become angered when I think of it. Next time something like that happens I'll write it down and ask people what they think of it.! GAHHS!

 

[Math Is Hard]

I never knew what my beliefs about "God" were called until I stumbled upon the term panentheist. It seems very close, but may not be extensive enough for my own ideas. My concept of "God" is everything that is in the universe plus everything that is not. That is the only way I can describe it.

My other thought is that I am possibly biologically "wired" for belief in a creator. Not too long ago, I learned about several studies of twins raised separately and it seemed that in most cases their degree of religiosity (among other things) was remarkably similar, despite being raised in completely different environments. No matter what anyone does to "disprove" to me the existence of "God" it will never feel right to me.

So perhaps this is something so deeply rooted in my physical/chemical brain structure that it is impossible for me to accept?

 

[mattmns]

Are there no Pastafarians here?

I think if "God" does exists, he is one sick **********

 

[Bladibla]

Who cares?

No matter how long we talk about this plane crash of semi-philospohy, we won't get any results.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Who cares?

No matter how long we talk about this plane crash of semi-philospohy, we won't get any results.

Because people are more important than results?

 

[deckart]

When we get to where we can create a living thing of even the simplest form, then I will consider the question. With what we understand about the universe is right now, why would there even be life at all? Why would it come to exist? It doesn't make a bit of sense to me as to why there are living things at all? Why does "life" bother to come about?

So until there is a scientific reason, I fall into the "there must be a God" category.

 

[Evo]

It makes no sense to me that because there is life there has to be a supernatural invisible being. I see no connection between the two.

 

[deckart]

And there we are...
We have concrete evidence and explanation about many if not most our physical universe but we haven't got jack on a most basic thing, "life". So why not believe in a God? It at least gives an explanation or some reasoning to where science does not.

See the connection now?

 

[mattmns]

So if we don't understand something we just say that some super natural being created it and are happy?

 

[deckart]

Well if it's supernatural, then yeah.

(We should be getting close to shut down post phase)

 

[deckart]

Life, as understood to this point, is quite a mystery in my opinion. At least nothing has been scientifically explained to my personal satisfaction.