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What do you think should Kosovo be an independent country, or not?

  1. Dec 2, 2004 #1
    Basing it on history?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 2, 2004 #2

    russ_watters

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    I am generally not in favor of making a little country for every ethnic group because the world has really moved past the nationalsim/ethnocentrism that led to the two world wars. That said, people were killing each other and that needed to be stopped - whatever it takes to prevent it should be done.
     
  4. Dec 2, 2004 #3

    PerennialII

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    I'd favor a similar approach ... divide at first in order to calm things down as first priority, but the international community should have a second phase plan aiming in re-integration of the region. Local admins can be left in place to satisfy & take care of autonomical needs.
     
  5. Dec 2, 2004 #4

    BobG

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    If the world had "really moved past the nationalism/ethnocentrism" phase, we wouldn't have had nearly as many problems in post-Yugoslavia, and wouldn't be having problems in Sierra Leone, Columbia, or Iraq. (Okay, we're splitting hairs - I think you meant the world has moved past nationalism/ethnocentrism being a viable solution).

    I think the problems are more acute in the Middle East and Africa, due to national boundaries being created by colonialism with virtually no regard to the inhabitants actually living there. The same problem exists to a much smaller extent in Europe when weaker groups were incorporated into a powerful nation (Basques in Spain, Kosovo in Yugoslavia, the Scots and Irish under Great Britain for awhile).

    How to resolve it from our present state is hard to figure. Obviously, creating a separate country for every ethnic group (or nation-people) isn't a very acceptable solution. Especially when you consider which nation-countries have the most nation-peoples within their borders. I don't know of a current list, but, just prior to the Soviet break-up, the top five countries for number of nations (people) within their border were:

    1. China
    2. India
    3. Soviet Union
    4. United States (Iriquois, Sioux, etc.)
    5. Canada

    Each deals with their minority groups in a different manner with a different amount of success - generally better than smaller countries which may not have a dominant nation-people running the nation-country. Maybe the only realistic solution is to keep on handling problems as they crop up until Russ's statement literally does become a reality.
     
  6. Dec 7, 2004 #5
    It's not a matter of the size of the country. There exist a lot of much smaller countries. The problem is with ethnic conflicts. Kosovo had become a second Bosnia during the year 1998. The Serbs massacred thousands of Kosovar Albanians and displaced hundreds of thousands more. This is pure genocide, and I'm sure that ethnic Albanians and ethnic Serbs cannot live together in peace in one country. So Kosovo should gain its eventual independence.
     
  7. Dec 7, 2004 #6
    So do you think that Milloshevic is innocent?

    what are you talking about?
    so according to you what happened in Bosnia, in Croatia, was something good!!!
    Not at all man, there were thousends of innocent peoples killed, and some still that are suffering, it is just a matter of time, and Kosovo will be independent. What do you think about the Genocide and ethnik-cleansing happened during year 1999? Shame on you, you are talking about a problem for which you don't have the minimal idea of what to say, do you?
    **** you, Milloshevic and everyone that comes from Serbia & Montenegro... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: Chi gioca con il fuoco finishe brucciandosi?
     
  8. Dec 7, 2004 #7

    russ_watters

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    I think you may have misunderstood - I was referring to the NATO/UN intervention to stop the genocide and the other events that precipitated Milo's overthrow.
     
  9. Jan 29, 2006 #8
    Yeah Ardian you and those "Greek" above would like it independent but hopefully it wont happen. And I dunno what cleaning are you talking about, here in Montenegro there are over 30.000 Gypsies you "cleaned" from Kosovo together with NATO troops. Not to mention Serbs and Montenegrins. Thats such an obvious nazifaschism in 21st century. Shame on this world... :uhh:
     
  10. Jan 29, 2006 #9
    What have the greeks go to do with it?

    Kosovo should stay independent, as you can see the Balkans has serious historical problems. Mainly due to the Ottomans. Intergration wont help.

    Russ, the world hasnt moved on unforutantly
     
  11. Jan 29, 2006 #10
    It cant "stay" because it is not independent and it HAS NEVER BEEN.

    Why ppl who dont know anything about the situation must say these stupid things?! :rolleyes:
     
  12. Jan 29, 2006 #11

    arildno

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    I agree; although I think that new state formation based on ethnicity might on occasion be the least bad solution in regions of the world that has not progressed much beyond tribalism.

    Whether Kosovo is such a backwater, I don't know.
     
  13. Jan 29, 2006 #12
    yeh yeh, I ment should be independent, and cut the sarcasim it makes you look like a child

    And you failed to answer my Question, what has Greece got to do with it?
     
  14. Jan 29, 2006 #13
    1st : that would be same like I would say "Brussels has to be independent state" based on what I could get in our media. But that would prob sound equally stupid to you like your sentence is to me.

    2nd : ramollari is from Greece, and is probably Albanian who hopes that some part of Greece could become independent, thats why I put "" aroung Greek.

    I mean look at the **** and terrorism they made in Macedonia, is Milosevic and Serbs guilty for it?!

    How many years Milosevic is Haag?! What have they proved?! NOTHING! I mean he has responsibility for things in republic where he is president the same way war general has responsibility for his squadron but what they are doing is just stupid. Bush and Clinton would be in jail already.
     
  15. Feb 3, 2006 #14

    Astronuc

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    First of all, national borders are arbitrary and have historically been determined through violence. :mad:

    I emphatically support and endorse the right of 'self-determination'.

    If the people of Kosovo wish to live in their own country - so be it!

    I remind those who are free or live in a nation of their predominant ethnic or cultural group
    from the US Declaration of Independence - http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm
     
  16. Feb 3, 2006 #15

    Art

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    So what happened to the US confederacy?? :smile: And what happens if the afro-americans in Louisianna decide to go for independence? Or what if people in your street want independence? Where does this right to self-determination end?
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2006
  17. Feb 3, 2006 #16

    russ_watters

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    I'm going to have to agree with Art here :bugeye:

    If we carved out a little chunk of land for every religious/ethnic group, there'd be tens of thousands of nations in the world, all based on nationalistic hate for all the others. That just isn't a morally acceptable or practically realistic way to run the world.

    That quote from the Declaration of Independence (or the followups), Astronuc, doesn't say anything about not being able to live with England because of differences in ethnicity, religion, or culture. It's all about the divide caused by the Atlantic Ocean. Sometimes geographical boundaries make sense for a basis of political boundaries (in today's world, even that isn't necessary anymore though...).

    Also, when I said that the world has "moved past nationalism", I meant that it is no longer an acceptable philosophy according to the consensus of the global community. Ie, the two world wars happened because nationalism was a game that everyone played. Today, there are only a few pockets of it left.

    So I support Kosovo's independence - not because of a nationalistic or racist desire to be their own country - but because they, like us, were actually oppressed.
     
  18. Feb 4, 2006 #17

    Art

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  19. Feb 4, 2006 #18

    Astronuc

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    That is my position. The Serbian government embarked on a rampage of genocide, and the population allowed it to happen. The Kosovars deserve, like anyone else, to live in secure environment, free from oppression.
     
  20. Feb 5, 2006 #19
    Huh at least half of Kosovo inhabitants have origin from Albania, I mean its much more but at least half. And if Serbian government did genocide on Kosovo why they cant prove it in Haague for already 5 years?!
     
  21. Feb 5, 2006 #20

    Astronuc

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    It's not that genocide or 'mass killings' are disputed, there are thousands of corpses as evidence, it is a matter of proving who is responsible! :mad:

    I was also referring to people like Radovan Karadžić - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radovan_Karadžić :mad:

    Ratko Mladić - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratko_Mladic

    and Željko Ražnatović - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkan :mad:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War#War_crimes

    I also am opposed to the KLA (UÇK) and any such organization that allows criminal activity.
     
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