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What drug makes you feel invincible?

  1. Oct 9, 2005 #1
    I'm watching the history channel right now on the history of illegal drugs marijuana and cocaine. There's a illegal drug though I forgot which one it is which makes you feel invincible and where you can't feel pain. Which drug is it?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 9, 2005 #2
    Theres a new one out on the streets, its called google..
    I'm addicted to it
     
  4. Oct 9, 2005 #3

    hypnagogue

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    There are probably a number of drugs that can induce that kind of thing. Are you thinking of PCP maybe?

    http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/pcp.html
     
  5. Oct 9, 2005 #4

    loseyourname

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    I would have to guess it was either PCP or Ecstasy. I don't know about feeling invincible, but both are very dangerous in the sense that they get rid of all pain.

    If you believe Fear and Loathing, though, on PCP you can still feel little annoyances. Anyone remember the story about the guy in prison whose eyes were itching so he tore them out (which, of course, no man would do could he feel pain)?
     
  6. Oct 9, 2005 #5
    yes PCP, thats it
     
  7. Oct 9, 2005 #6
    You ever watch Cops on tv? Sometimes they have people on there who are on something, I think it may be pcp, and they are insane to take down. They are sweating like crazy, and it usually takes like 5 or 6 cops to take them down, a few tazor guns, whew!
     
  8. Oct 9, 2005 #7

    Moonbear

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    That's where it gets dangerous...even moreso for the user than for the cops. The lack of pain perception leads the cops to think they're not harming the person they're arresting, so they end up using excessive force. The cops perceive them as resisting arrest, but the suspect just doesn't have the necessary awareness/perception to respond appropriately to their demands. Combined with the systemic effects the drugs already have on things like elevating heart rate, the outcome is too likely that the suspect ends up heading to the hospital or morgue. The cops really should be given special training for handling these people; it would make it safer for everyone involved. As long as they aren't armed, it might make more sense to just cordon off an area and keep others away from them until the drugs wear off rather than try to restrain them when either the cops or the user is likely to get seriously injured in the process.
     
  9. Oct 9, 2005 #8
    Excessive force? you mean like they Shoot them? Breaking limbs? intentionally smashing them in the face, repetitively, as to break all of there facial Bones? when have you ever seen the police regularily {As Course of Duty} do things like that? {yes, I know, there are exceptional cases, ie Rodney King}

    How do you sudue a Human Being without hurting them?

    How do you subdue a Human Being On Powerful Drugs without hurting them?

    How do you subdue a Human being, to the point of restraint, as that is what they need to do to ensure that that human being, is NO longer a Danger to the Public, or to them, {the Police} or to themselves?

    Wait it out, like paying taxes, do you?

    "wait it out"? so the diversionary tactic of Every crook on the planet becomes get someone else really really High and all of the police in the area will be there "waiting it out"

    Excessive force is NOT several police officers taking someone to the ground, and cuffing them, that is simply them arresting a resisting offender.

    "Leading them to believe they are not hurting the person" you mean when they use one of the trained Nerve Point tactics and NOT a Thing Happens, the suspect Doesn't even NOTICE it, is that what you mean by "Leads them to believe" cause I would believe it at that point, too!

    They are given special training, but subdueing a Human being who is willfully resisting Just isn't that simply, try it someday wrestling with a Friend, I have, and when I have restraints upon me to NOT hurt the other person, and they don't, it isn't easy at all.

    Sorry, but it bothers me that they always seem to be made targets of, the police, yet so few people have any real idea of just how difficult what you are talking about really is, restraining a Human.

    that said .. .. ..

    LD
    .. .. .. .. .. .. gone to restrain myself
     
  10. Oct 9, 2005 #9

    cronxeh

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    Phencyclidine (PCP) is a very dangerous dissociative anesthetic, and treatment usually includes Narcan for increased respiratory rate, Valium for muscle rigidity, and restraints. Depending on the dose the individual under effects will be anything from violent, panicky, feeling godlike, impared judgement, ataxia, amnesia, hallucinations, psychotic, delirius, catatonic, and drooling.

    While restraining such individual it is important to remember that any disruption of sensory input of such individuals would cause them to violently react to their environment (think Police kicking them or touching them or trying to put them in a car)
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2005
  11. Oct 9, 2005 #10
    None of them .. .. .. .. and I have definately NOT tried them, all!

    Not even close, and I wouldn't want to, statistic I had heard was that one in ten who simply TRY cocaine get Hooked Immediately.

    Tough enough in life, don't need to add such other trials to it.
     
  12. Oct 9, 2005 #11

    EnumaElish

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    Krypton. :smile:

    Joke aside, I've read that infants (very few, the reader is assured) born with a condition that blocks any feeling of pain die within a few years -- until which they can be chewing up their tongues and gouging out their eyes.

    One would like to believe that the thin blue line between minimum necessary force and outright brutality is very bright and clear.
     
  13. Oct 9, 2005 #12
    As of November 2004, Ashlyn Blocker was still alive at the age of 5.

    google.com/search?q=%22Ashlyn+Blocker%22+pain

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Oct 9, 2005 #13

    EnumaElish

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    YAY! Many cheers for Ashlyn!
     
  15. Oct 9, 2005 #14

    Moonbear

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    No, I'm using the term excessive force to mean anything that leads to the hospitalization or death of the suspect, such as using 5 tasers on one person because they didn't react to one; I'm not necessarily using it in the sense of police misconduct. Zapping someone with electricity and then zapping them with more when they don't react to it, and already have a racing heart rate is a darn good way of inducing a heart attack. I'm not even talking about it being intentional abuse of a suspect, Rodney King style, but just that when someone doesn't respond to force, the natural response, and what they are trained to do, is to increase the force.

    Have you seen footage of cops trying to subdue a suspect on PCP? It's dangerous for them to approach the subject as much as it's dangerous for the subject. The way they've been trained to respond to someone who resists arrest doesn't work with someone on PCP. Nothing the user does is rational, inducing pain (even without injury) doesn't work because they don't feel it, so what do you do? Zap them more when they don't react to a taser, assuming the taser is having no effect on their body? Pile on enough cops so that the suspect not only can't get back up, but also can't breathe, because that's how many it takes to hold them down? Someone on PCP doesn't even stop struggling and doesn't stop being a danger after the cuffs are on. They can have broken ribs from the struggle and still don't curl up in pain but keep going, risking puncturing a lung. Ultimately, it's the drug and the fault of the user who took such a dangerous drug that you can blame, but that isn't constructive to improving police procedure if there is a better way of subduing such a suspect that reduces the risk to the police and suspect, and any by-standers too.

    Yes, I know what the police are up against (you're probably too new to have seen the older threads where I've mentioned that I have relatives who are cops), but we're talking about someone with a completely altered sense of reality, like a psychiatric patient. We're not talking about your common criminal who is actively resisting arrest out of conscious choice. Their training to handle these situations is lacking, that's my argument here. They're doing what they're trained to do, and I'm not blaming the cops, I'm blaming the lack of proper training for handling someone for whom the usual tactics simply don't work and put BOTH the cops and offender in harm's way. When you need a half dozen cops to just hold the suspect down long enough to get cuffs on, the cops don't come out unscathed either. They need different training to handle these situations and a different response. Heck, instead of a taser, they might need an M.D. to load up a dart gun for them to administer a tranquilizer before approaching.

    Uh, yeah, right. Show me some evidence that common crooks, every crook on the planet no less, is going to do that. Heck, if they were that organized, they'd already be doing it since so much of the police force already responds to such an incident. Waiting it out doesn't need to be the only response, it was just one alternative to having a half dozen cops spending the night in the ER getting busted noses treated and then spending the next day filling out the paperwork for the suspect that they accompanied to the ER that was pronounced DOA.

    Anyway, this is all a long way of saying that my first post was not criticizing the cops, it was pointing out that given the challenges of subduing a suspect under the influence of this drug, alternative approaches should be considered for handling this type of scenario. It's not saying they've done something wrong, but saying there might be something better.
     
  16. Oct 9, 2005 #15
    Ahhh yes... another newb made the fatal mistake of arguing with moonbear only to see their entire argument utterly smashed in front of their very own eyes....

    Is it wrong that this is so satisfying?
     
  17. Oct 9, 2005 #16

    Moonbear

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    Aww...don't be so hard on him, he's just a sleepy little rabbit who misunderstood my initial statement. I could be considered as much to blame in this case for making a statement that was unclear (excessive force does have a specific meaning in the case of police misconduct, so I should have defined from the outset that my usage was different from the usual definition). He wasn't being purposely obtuse like some in the past.
     
  18. Oct 9, 2005 #17
    I know.. that's why I was nice enough to call it a "Mistake". :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2005
  19. Oct 9, 2005 #18

    Mk

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    Here's an interesting related thing.

    http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/sparky.htm
    WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES
    It may not be something you want to see again.

    And you're suggesting this temporary Terminator-like character should be let run around the streets until the effects end? This is a guy who has no sanity, and feels no pain. I've seen videos of people like this before. I remember this one guy, he was the most insane of the three, who robbed a bank, then drove off in their getaway car in circles at 15 mph. The man I'm talking about jumped out of the car with an AK-47, and a .45, and walked around very casually mowing down anyone he saw. The AK-47 had a malfunction, a bullet casing was hanging on. To fix it all you have to do is hit it out with your hand, but the killer threw down the machine gun and continued to shoot with the handgun. About 20 minutes later he gave up, and committed suicide. When his body was examined, they found he was shot 26 times. The whole thing was caught on video camera from a police helicopter.

    Ok. :smile: :smile: :smile: Yay, smiling is good~!
    http://www.happynews.com/
     
  20. Oct 9, 2005 #19

    cronxeh

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    I think the only rational way is to have some sort of a non abrasive net being launched at them, perhaps that would also deliver a set dose of Valium and Narcan. This new net should be launched from, say, 20 ft distance, and should be fully automated. The police should then simply pick up the patient after 3 minutes and hand them over to the paramedics. I think the patient should be restrained with special types of restraints and delivered to a local ER and attended by a psychiatrist.
     
  21. Oct 9, 2005 #20
    A tranquilizer with some sort of sedative could make the situation far less dangerous - although I doubt it'd fix the problem completely.
     
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