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What exactly will a TOE do for us as a society

  1. Sep 22, 2003 #1
    What exactly will a TOE do for us as a society. How will we benefit from knowing all the four forces are united or that we know the origin of the universe. Yes this is all interesting and good information, but what benefit will we gain from it once we know?

    -Curious highschooler.
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 23, 2003 #2
    Well, put it this way, when you learn(ed) about E=mc^2 (maybe a bad analogy because there is much controversy on the subject) you learn that m=E/c^2. So in other words, you learn how to MANIPULATE this information to make usefulness out of it.

    So, to answer your question, the day the TOE is established, the day we learn how to manipulate all 4 forces into something useful, whatever that might be!

    Now, if your question is now "how would we make any of the 4 forces of any use, just think about time travel! This is theoretical, but when you can manipulate gravity, you can manipulate space-time.

    Paden Roder
  4. Sep 23, 2003 #3
    Probably help us to understand the periodic table of elements from a point of view of their construct, hence the ability to manipulate the elemental 'elements', and forces, of nature....Hopefully to our collective benefit, rather then to our collective detriment. All depends upon how it gets applied.

    That kind of understanding Might, I stress MIGHT, just help us to get rid of Nuclear Waste, maybe a room temperature superconductor, maybe new manners of energy extractions, maybe manners of transportation to the further edges of this galaxy, Maybe lots more then any one person can presently predict.
  5. Sep 25, 2003 #4


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    Proponents of the various theories of everything like to say:

    The ToE is not the end, but is a new beginning. If we successful generate the ToE, then we understand the structure, the foundations of the universe we live in. The building blocks, if you will. We are then free to build upwards, and produce thing that we can use, that we can benefit from, that we can study further.

    Knowing more about the bricks lets us build better houses.
  6. Sep 25, 2003 #5
    all good points, but let me back up for a second. What out there says that there is even a ToE? Who says that all the four forces are to be united in a ToE?
  7. Sep 25, 2003 #6
    The behaviour of the Universe, and me!
  8. Sep 26, 2003 #7
    What exactly will a TOE do for us as a society. How will we benefit from knowing all the four forces are united or that we know the origin of the universe. Yes this is all interesting and good information, but what benefit will we gain from it once we know?

    As one of those members who run their own web site to show how their work is progressing (these can be accessed from the members list )I would answer your question this way.

    Firstly we cannot make real progress until we understand the fundamentals.

    Secondly, there are a lot of people who misuse our lack of understanding to claim that they do understand the trueth in either or both scientific and religous terms. Such people are trying to maintain their position or priveleges or, worse still, use their claim to justify their right to control our lives.
    It is remarkable that, as far as the fundamentals of creation or science are concerned; neither scientist nor religous leader can explain what these trueths are. Hawking, Fermi and other leading scientists together with religous leaders all claim that some things are beyond explanation.

    My advise to you would be to remember the words of Isaac Newton

    "It is to the glory of God that His works are done with the greatest simplicity"

    Also note that Einstein commented that whenever faced with a number of possible solutions he always found the simplest solution to be the correct one.

    By their own admissions, simplicity was the key to the success of both Newton and Einstein.

    In my opinion nothing is beyond explanation, cut away the trade or professional language, reduce everything to the simplest possible term, in words as well as numbers; and you will understand the wonder of creation and the purpose of life. You may not be able to convey this understanding to others, for whom simplicity is a sign of ignorance; but you will have that peace of mind that comes from understanding your place in eternity.
    Do not let simplicity of thought prevent you from enjoying the complexities of life, just remember that all complexity is developed from simple beginnings. Finding, understanding and using complexities is what life is all about.
    Simplicity is your root, complexity is your future. It is always having something left to discover that will keep us going for all eternity; but remember, eternity does have an end, so make the most of it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2003
  9. Sep 26, 2003 #8
    Ah, and If I may add to your post elas, Occam's Razor also explains that...You should keep science as simple as POSSIBLE, but no simpler.
    Paden Roder
  10. Sep 26, 2003 #9
    Just out of curiosity, how are you distiguishing between the people who are Claiming, (uncertain, potential lie?) and people who are admiting?? (have a reasonablity of truthfullness?)
  11. Sep 26, 2003 #10


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    Nothing. Nothing at all.

    But most physicists believe that the universe inherently ought to make sense, and that there appears at present no reason why the forces must be separated.

    We have already managed to unite two of the forces - the weak force, and EM force.
  12. Sep 27, 2003 #11
    Greetings, guys. Seems you like discussions around of a subject, than about a subject itself. I invite to discussion about real TOE those of you, who has own ideas on this theme.
  13. Sep 27, 2003 #12
    Yes, in response to FZ+ response, it is known as the electroweak force. And I may be wrong, but supersymmetry ALOMST unites 3 of the 4 forces, the weak, strong, and the EM.
    Paden Roder
  14. Sep 28, 2003 #13
    When I introduced my solution on a different forum I got thrown off for "advertising". At the risk of being thrown off again I will point out that by taking the masses of fundamental particles given in The Particle Explosion one can construct a simple graph showing quarks and electron and extend it to include a theoretical graviton. The result calls for a radical rethink of the way we explain mass.
    The question I keep asking is why were the forces seperated? The only answer I can come up with is that they were seperated due to excusable ignorance. Now that we have a larger picture it is time to correct the historical errors,and keep the historical truths . That means a rigorous application of the Law of Economy; and i am glad to see that at least on that point I am not alone.
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