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What happens after death

  1. Jan 17, 2004 #1
    I wonder What happens after Death. Is there any research link on the subject or any theory under pipeline
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 17, 2004 #2
    well we can't "prove" anything after death, scientically.

    distilling all the material that i have read the best explanation i can offer is that you will initially experience what you expected.

    e.g. if you were a devout christian, loved your mother, and believed in heaven; you would be met by your mother and led thru the experience. i suspect that the terrorists that expected virgins were met by virgins and led into something other than a sexual experience.

    these personalities would arrive after the 'whitelight' thingy. i sat with my mother as she passed. she went out having a conversation with her mother during the last 10-15 minutes. that was 37 years ago and really made and impression.

    i have put in a conscious request to be met by Elvis but i do not think we are psychically connected.

    peace,
     
  4. Jan 17, 2004 #3
    Oh , So The person who dies can see and talk to the loved one who are no more i.e. the person who is going to die senses The Approach of Death

    What You have said is exactly in Indian mythology
     
  5. Jan 17, 2004 #4
    there is a kernel of truth in all mythlogies. now, if we only knew how to separate the chaff, we might have a neat philosphy.

    peace,
     
  6. Jan 29, 2004 #5
    i think after death everything is black and you have no concept of what happened because you are not yourself anymore. you have become some infinite happening that doesn't exist three dimensionally.
     
  7. Feb 20, 2004 #6
    well, conciousness is based off of an energy pattern of brain waves. So if your energy field manages to survive the death of your body, you get to have an afterlife, it may be an eternal afterlife, or it might be finite. Who knows. Maybe ghosts die of old age too :p
    Those who weren't lucky and had an energy field that died, will be dead, and that is that.

    But maybe on judgement day where the dead are brought back to be judged is the day all the dead, ghosts, and dead ghosts, all come back to their living state. I don't know, now i am just rambling.
     
  8. Feb 20, 2004 #7
    i beleive that all thought will no longer exist. and our physical self will rot away and dissolve unless you mummify your self.
     
  9. Feb 20, 2004 #8
    Also in Indian spiritual tradition, There is the physical body, then the subtle body and then the soul. The subtle energy body houses the soul just as the physical body housed the subtle body. Very few people understand the soul. It is not an organism. But the bodys, both the subtle and physical, are organisms. There might even be even more bodies, 7 is my guess. They facilitate the soul just as a deep sea diver suit facilitates a man into going into pressures that woul implode his skull. But the soul does not implode! They interface the soul's consciousness with this dimension. The soul cannot direclty exist in this dimension... like a rock cannot float.

    There are some philosopheres who acknowledge the existence of an astral body, but not of a soul. Or they think the energy fields around the body ARE the soul. The suble body is an organism, so it can also die. It also has DNA (energy DNA). But generally it is feeding life into the physical, not the other way around. This is my opinion.

    There is a theory that one will experience whatever heaven or reality they believe in. I've conjectured that an athiest simply will cease to exist, if he has convinced his soul...
     
  10. Feb 21, 2004 #9
    Check the article God and Immortality for Rational Mind. The view expressed there is that the pattern of "self" as encoded in the neural network of your brain can be recoded/unfolded into the larger outer network, the social organism (which is computationally much more powerfull intelligent network, a super-brain), as a more durable "Self" pattern. The "Self" is not a magnified replica of "self" but rather the relation of "self" to "Self" is like the relation of the sperm/egg DNA code to the organism that unfolds from it. The article argues that some religions and ancient wisdom do contain a recipe for this recoding.
     
  11. Feb 21, 2004 #10
    if we are energy, and it seems more probable everyday, then all that happens at death is that we change 'form'.

    i see no reason to deal with neurons and DNA codes, they only apply to the physical.

    to amplify, electricity is energy, we observe it as the movement of electrons. but what was the 'energy' that moved the first electron? another form of energy in the 'non-physical'?

    peace,
     
  12. Feb 21, 2004 #11
    this actually is the perfect segway into something else i was going to post. you can ask the question what happens after death? but i was going to ask the question, what can happen instead of death. i mean we have these other beliefs in different religions about enlightenment and nervana and such. what is enlightenment? i mean i know what it is, and what happens, but what really happens? like nervana is quoted as," being snuffed out like a candle" but what is that? if u dissapear, where do u go? same with enlightenment... i know that certain religions have beliefs in heaven and going to a better place after death, but how do u work to goin to a better place instead of death? sorry to change the subject but i just thought this was a good opportunity to add my two cents...
     
  13. Feb 23, 2004 #12
    Yeah -

    I was dead once - 'bout 55 years ago. Didn't like it at all. Boring.

    I was smaller than a cell. Made it difficult to watch TV. Bowling was definitely out. Driving . . . FORGET IT!

    Decided to give life a try again. Here I am.

    Damned if I remember much about being dead, though. Must have been pretty boring.
     
  14. Feb 25, 2004 #13
    I dedicate 36% of my life to work, which consists mostly of spending time with people I don't like, doing meaningless stuff that guarantees my own survival and the luxurious lifestyle of my employers. Of the remaining 64%, I spend another 36% in the unconscious state called sleep, and some 20% doing meaningless stuff I don't even get paid for, such as shoveling snow over and over and over and over... All in all, I'm left with an average of 14 hours a week, out of 168, to actually LIVE. By my calculations, I'm only 8% alive.

    What comes after death? Well, I only know what comes after being 92% dead, and I can tell you it's glorious!
     
  15. Feb 26, 2004 #14

    attainment of total freedom from the cycle of birth, life, pain, misery, and death, and achieve the blissful state of one's pure self. This is also known as liberation or Nirvana, which is absolute freedom, or Moksha.

    A living body is not merely limbs and flesh but it is the home of the soul, which has the potential to achieve perfect perception ( Anant-darshana ), perfect knowledge ( Anant-jnana ), perfect power ( Anant-virya ), and perfect bliss ( Anant-sukha ).

    From eternity, the soul of a living being is bonded by the deeds or Karma of his mortal existence. Under the influence of karma, the soul seeks pleasures in materialistic belongings and possessions or Maya. Man by nature is prone to anger, self-centred violent thoughts, hatred, greed, and such other vices. To attain Nirvana, the soul must be made stronger so that it can influence the body to do good deeds.

    Mahavir preached that right faith ( Samyak-darshana ), right knowledge ( Samyak-jnana ), and right conduct ( Samyak-charitra ) together will help attain the liberation of one's self.

    At the heart of right conduct lie the five great vows:

    Nonviolence ( Ahimsa )

    Truthfulness ( Satya )

    Non-stealing ( Asteya )

    Chastity ( Brahmacharya )

    Non-possession/Non-attachment ( Aparigraha or complete detachment from people, places, and material things)

    The monks and nuns follow these vows strictly and totally, while the common people try to adhere to them as far as possible

     
  16. Feb 27, 2004 #15
    One aspect of 'enlightenment' is realising what will happen after your death.

    It's worth trying to meditate on death. Sounds a but morbid, but it isn't really. Just imagine that nothing exists except your existence, and that this is all that will ever exist, for all eternity. It's pretty terrifying but if you keep going all sorts of surprising and pleasant things happen.

    If you can get the hang of it you realise that there may be more to yourself than there appears to be on the surface.

    I've found meditating of death more useful than almost anything eles I've ever done. It's birth I can't get very far with. Some advice on getting to grips with that would be helpful, if anyone has any.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2004
  17. Feb 28, 2004 #16
    Dreams are beautiful but reality is reality. Science's best answer to this question is that your brain functions cease to exist and you as you know you cease to exist. This, or this happening to a loved one is one of the most challenging things a human can face.

    Many people can't accept this, many people envision something great, grand and much bigger then themselves happening to them after death, but these beliefs don't change reality. I myself can't accept this, but I don't have to, time will take its toll eventually.

    Many people would call my view morbid and self-destructive. But this is how the real world works, pulling the blanket over your head and pretending not to know the truth changes nothing. I, as I think every one should, use this knowledge give my best shot at live, and to be the very best person I can be, as I believe(with a mound of data backing my belief) that we only get one shot at this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2004
  18. Feb 28, 2004 #17
    Can't argue with that. But what is the reality in this case?

    Are we supposed to believe this because it's 'science's best answer'? For science this is metaphysics, it has nothing to say on the matter.
    You can believe it if you want but I don't like to believe in things without a reason.

    Luckily what you believe will not change reality. I can never understand why it's considered 'scientific' to think that our consciousness ceases with our death. It's no more scientific than believing there are fairies at the bottom of the garden.

    You'll have trouble finding any scientific research that supports this assertion, there isn't any.

    Very true. Pulling a blanket over your head and pretending that you know the truth also changes nothing.

    Whatever makes you think that?
     
  19. Feb 28, 2004 #18

    "Cogito ergo sum". I think, therefore I am.

    One must exist in order to experience, and the fact that you experience is convincing proof you exist.


    We call the planetary 'mud' we wear a 'body' for the sake of convenience. It is simpler to apply a single label to the collection of parts than to acknowledge the feet, legs, arms, hands, head, torso, etc. individually. Indeed, those parts are all comprised of cells, molecules, atoms, etc., so you can see it would be extremely cumbersome to carry on a conversation without considering it as a single thing. But the body is not a single thing. It is a myriad of things - elemental particles - individual existences each with its own identity.

    If you could disassemble your body - if you had the power to remain conscious as each of those particles were removed one-by-one and reassembled twenty feet away - at what point would your consciousness experience the change in location?

    Two individual elements cannot become a single identity any more than they can simultaneously occupy the same space. It is not possible to 'be' more than (or less than) a single being. Your corpse is billions of individual beings, so the existence you experience must be that of a single Entity hidden within the assemblage of your body.

    This isn't rocket science. It has nothing to do with religion. It is simple logic and elementary deduction. You don't have a soul, you are a soul. And while you are alive, you have a body. When you die, it will fall off (which can be VERY embarrassing as well as downright inconvenient).
     
  20. Feb 28, 2004 #19
    True. However it does not necesasarily follow that 'I do not think therefore I am not'.

    Ok. But in 'selfless' states of consciousness what is 'you' is not what 'you' normally seem to be.

    Good question. Assuming one does not die in the process then nobody knows.

    This may be true. However it is not clear that our individual consciousnesses are in fact entirely discrete entities. Are ocean waves one thing or many?

    I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

    That may be true. But things are not always so clear. Think of a Bose-Einstein condensate.

    I don't like the concept of 'soul' much either, the term carries too much baggage. However there is much evidence to suggest that consciousness (at a fundamental level) is not subject to life and death, and so far none against the idea. We can't scientifically prove that it's true, but this is a not much of a reason to assume that it isn't.
     
  21. Feb 28, 2004 #20

    If you think you AREN'T, then you probably AIN'T
    No...I do know. About a year ago, I actually DID this. One night I consumed two quarts of Margaritas. The next morning I actually HAD TO disassemble myself to make it to the bathroom.
    Consciousness is a condition - a state of being. Only a being can have a 'state of' being. You do not have to be conscious to 'exist', but you DO have to exist to be conscious.
    If atoms are not, indeed, the ultimate elemental particles, then YES, they could coalesce. But the true entities - elemental particles - from which they were constructed would still be separate entities.
    Yeah - 'soul' has a highly religious connotation. Unless you believe that existence is the result of a process - cause and effect - it is difficult to countenance a 'creator'.
     
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