What happens when you give an engineer a well

  • Thread starter Ivan Seeking
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In summary: Wisconsin.I put this system in because I wanted fantastic water and double redundancy as well. Any two filters can fail, and I won't see any iron in the house. In addition, by adding the automatic bottom flush to the dwell time tank, most precipitates never enter the filters. And all of the filters automatically backflush and self clean as scheduled. Unfortunately, you don't even want to know what this all cost.
  • #1
Ivan Seeking
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Okay, my degree is really in physics but I took a minor in hydraulic engineering, so it sort of applies. Anyway, we live miles from the nearest town so we and everyone around has a private well. In this particular area we also have problems with iron in the water - which means iron bacteria - as well as calcium and other hard water problems, and finally, we get an occasional blast of sulfur. In reality cartridge iron filters work reasonably well, but they are expensive, high maintenance, and they don't work good enough for my tastes. Also, I like the idea of chlorine as an oxidizer since it eliminates almost all concerns about safe water. So, after getting about a dozen years of experience with a well and the associated equipment, a few years ago I put in what I consider to be the ultimate system. In one sense it is a shame that we need to use so much, but the risk with bad water is that every water appliance and all of your clothes can be ruined in one day. So I not only wanted fantastic water, I wanted double redundancy as well. We certainly have both! Any two filters can fail [including the water softener], and I won't see any iron in the house. Also, by adding the automatic bottom flush to the dwell time tank, most precipitates never enter the filters. And all of the filters automatically backflush and self clean as scheduled by settings made on each unit. Unfortunately, you don't even want to know what this all cost, but since this is a major home investment we splurged and bought the best - good for thirty years and very low maintance. I only need to add chlorine and salt a few times a year.

I had made this up for a friend, but as engineers or scientists, or at least being of similar mind, I thought you could appreciate why this system is my pride and joy. :!) Our water is wonderful! Of course, it had better be!

Note that the picture looks a little skewed, but this is just some artifact from the camera.
http://img106.echo.cx/img106/885/wellsyslabeled3bo.jpg
 
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  • #2
I'm kinda wondering why you've a 'constant pressure booster pump' and 'booster press reserve' in that setup, instead of a couple more standard pressurized tanks like the one on the far left... is your main pump/well not able to supply enough?

It's a neat looking setup, yet from a repair/removal standpoint, that pressure tank is going to be a real pain to remove if/when the bladder breaks and water fills the upper portion of it (about 10 years, will be extremely heavy). I'm looking at all the plumbing you have in front and sides of it.

Other questions: above or in-well pump, depth to water, total depth of well?

Iron in the water sounds like Vermont or Wisconsin.
 
  • #3
Arctic Fox said:
I'm kinda wondering why you've a 'constant pressure booster pump' and 'booster press reserve' in that setup, instead of a couple more standard pressurized tanks like the one on the far left... is your main pump/well not able to supply enough?

The primary pump and old pump house is located about three hundred feet away from this new building which is right next to the house. I wanted more horsepower, but my wire and length of run limited the size of the primary pump. But it was easy to run a new circuit to the new building for the booster pump. And having constant pressure is really nice. Standard systems fluxuate between 40-60 psi with each cycle, which is really noticable, and at some point really grew annoying. This system maintains pressure to within no more than 5 PSI. The pressure reserve bladders greatly reduces the number of pump cycles, hence extending the life of the pumps by as much as a decade.

that pressure tank is going to be a real pain to remove if/when the bladder breaks and water fills the upper portion of it (about 10 years, will be extremely heavy). I'm looking at all the plumbing you have in front and sides of it.

That is all easily drained. The picture may not make this clear, but one great thing about this system is that I have plenty of room to work when needed. The old pump house is very small by comparison. This building is what...8' X 16' I think... There's enough room that this only occupies about half of the building, and my wife Tsu uses the other half as a garden shop.

Other questions: above or in-well pump, depth to water, total depth of well?

The primary pump is a submersible pump, about fifty feet down, with about 120 feet of water below that!

Iron in the water sounds like Vermont or Wisconsin.
Oregon
 
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  • #4
I want a cup of coffee. You're hired. I'll supply the land and seeds. :biggrin: You do work pro bono Rachel, right?

Um, meaning I'm impressed. My sense of humor has been off lately. :frown:
 
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  • #5
How much energy can you save by letting gravity help move the water through the pipes? I have almost no idea what's happening in the picture, but I notice the pipes are pretty much all parallel or perpendicular to the ground. Would it help to make them slope? Does it all cancel out anyway?
It would shorten the path at least? Maybe it's too much trouble? Just curious.
 
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  • #6
That's certainly industrial scale, Ivan!

My system is a simple "green sand" filter to remove the Fe and Mn, followed by a water softener. Very seldom do we have to 'shock' the well with Cl. We do not have a chlorinator in the system. We do not have a problem with bacteria. The water system is in the basement of the house because during winter the temperature outside can go as low as -25°F (-32°C).

We are contemplating a reverse osmosis system.

The house sits atop a large deposit of Fe and Mn. In one spot, where I was making a raised bed for an herb garden, the Fe ore breaks the surface. And that is only 40 feet from the water well.

The well was about 120 feet (37 m) with a jet pump. The original system had so much Fe oxide buildup, we replaced the whole system, as well as the in-door plumbing. We had water supply problems many years ago, so the we had the well deepened to 200 ft (61 m).
 
  • #7
honestrosewater said:
How much energy can you save by letting gravity help move the water through the pipes?

The energy demand is relatively low due to the low duty cycle. With the pressure reserve tanks attached, the pumps only have to run during periods of heavy water use - like when filling the bathtub, doing laundry etc. When we water outside, only one pump runs and the filter system is bypassed. We might have noticed a $5 a month increase in the power bill, at most.

Also, it turned out that by adding the second pump, the primary pump can be run constantly at its peak efficiency - ie no compromise for practical needs. So some of the power for the second pump was effectively free.
 
  • #8
Astronuc said:
My system is a simple "green sand" filter to remove the Fe and Mn, followed by a water softener. Very seldom do we have to 'shock' the well with Cl. We do not have a chlorinator in the system. We do not have a problem with bacteria. The water system is in the basement of the house because during winter the temperature outside can go as low as -25°F (-32°C).

We are contemplating a reverse osmosis system.

The house sits atop a large deposit of Fe and Mn. In one spot, where I was making a raised bed for an herb garden, the Fe ore breaks the surface. And that is only 40 feet from the water well.

The well was about 120 feet (37 m) with a jet pump. The original system had so much Fe oxide buildup, we replaced the whole system, as well as the in-door plumbing. We had water supply problems many years ago, so the we had the well deepened to 200 ft (61 m).

I looked at UV, ozone, reverse osmosis, and pretty much everything else out there. But I finally decided to stick with the tried and true chlorine system. IIRC, our particular set of problems and needs made reverse osmosis impractical, I think due to the number of particulates... and the UV and ozone systems tend to be high maintenance; when they work. We could have tried a deeper well, but there is no inidication that we would do any better. Everyone out here has the same problem. Finally, there are the little horror stories that I hear, such as how a mole can burrow into your well, fall in the water, and then rot away in the well in your drinking water. I wanted to know that this sort of thing is not a problem.
 
  • #9
Ivan Seeking said:
Finally, there are the little horror stories that I hear, such as how a mole can burrow into your well, fall in the water, and then rot away in the well in your drinking water. I wanted to know that this sort of thing is not a problem.
I hadn't heard that one. Anyhow, around our place, the rock - and I mean hard rock starts at about 6-12 inches below the surface. There is little in the way of 'soil' in which a mole could burrow. The well is encased in a carbon steel casing - which itself is pretty rusty. :rolleyes:

We do have moles and voles in the yard. Now and then we find a tunnel, especially in the spring when the ground is soft under the snow.
 
  • #10
Yes, with a steel casing and all of that hard rock, you probably don't have to worry about rodents. :biggrin: Our sits down in the cow pasture. Not only is the well shallow, there are septic systems, agriculture [chemicals], and new homes with more septic systems going in around here almost every month now. All of that in addition to the known bacteria problems... It was a heart breaker to write the check for all of that, but after living with marginal quality water for many years, my heart is filled with joy with every sparkling, crystal clear glass from IWD - Ivan's Water District. :tongue2:
 
  • #11
A sight to warm one's heart. Nice set up Ivan. Is this in between your own electrical substation and sewage treatment plant?
 
  • #12
FredGarvin said:
A sight to warm one's heart. Nice set up Ivan. Is this in between your own electrical substation and sewage treatment plant?

Plans for the dam and generator [the creek] have been in the works for fifteen years. But please don't rush me! :tongue:
 
  • #13
Ivan Seeking said:
Plans for the dam and generator [the creek] have been in the works for fifteen years. But please don't rush me! :tongue:
With the number of PF beavers willing to help you out, the dam should be done in a couple of hours. You just concentrate on the generator.
 
  • #14
Ivan Seeking said:
http://img106.echo.cx/img106/885/wellsyslabeled3bo.jpg
"The Domestic Water System of the Space Shuttle"
 
  • #15
Yikes! Quite the setup for home use! As an environmental engineer, my hat is off to you for this inspired undertaking. Hope the maintenance isn't too much. You could probably publish this in a trade journal. :)

My first reaction was to drill a deeper well, but it seems you've ruled that one out.
 
  • #16
Phobos said:
Hope the maintenance isn't too much...My first reaction was to drill a deeper well, but it seems you've ruled that one out.

:biggrin:

No, as designed, this is almost maintenance free. Also, I spent years investigating the options, but everyone within a couple of miles of here has the same problem; apparently no matter where or how deep they drill. When I couldn't find one well that has good water, and when I checked the water quality in other houses in the area :yuck:, and the maintenance requirements of alternative systems, I finally realized that there was only one way to beat this problem. But, it was a huge and expensive undertaking. And as you can imagine, the pump and filter equipment salesman really likes me.
 
  • #17
Ivan - that is the best bit of home-made kit I've seen in years. Great stuff!
 
  • #18
I've been in Northern California for the last ten days and I have to go back tomorrow for at least another week. I'm going to be taking multiple bottles of our water with me because I've been spoiled by out water so much all other water tastes just NASTY. :yuck: Just wish I could take enough along to wash my hair in a couple of times. That hard, awful water just wrecks my hair. :grumpy: I don't think there's a conditioner on the planet that will help with that stuff.
 
  • #19
Tsu said:
I've been in Northern California for the last ten days and I have to go back tomorrow for at least another week. I'm going to be taking multiple bottles of our water with me because I've been spoiled by out water so much all other water tastes just NASTY. :yuck: Just wish I could take enough along to wash my hair in a couple of times. That hard, awful water just wrecks my hair. :grumpy: I don't think there's a conditioner on the planet that will help with that stuff.
So you've been down in California while Ivan's been battling toxic mold single-handed? Tsk tsk! :tongue:
 
  • #20
Moonbear said:
So you've been down in California while Ivan's been battling toxic mold single-handed? Tsk tsk! :tongue:

:biggrin: No, you can't fault her on this one. For one, Tsu doesn't enjoy TBM nearly as much as I do. But also, she has been taking care of my mother. Mom [~70 years old] just had major surgery and needed help and care. With her 30 years of professional experience, Tsu insisted on being there. And a good thing it was; she did need to take charge and ultimately convince the doctor that my mother needed to be re-admitted. She ended up on Methadone of all things! [um, my mom, not Tsu, I think...].
 
  • #21
Ivan Seeking said:
:biggrin: No, you can't fault her on this one. For one, Tsu doesn't enjoy TBM nearly as much as I do. But also, she has been taking care of my mother. Mom [~70 years old] just had major surgery and needed help and care. With her 30 years of professional experience, Tsu insisted on being there. And a good thing it was; she did need to take charge and ultimately convince the doctor that my mother needed to be re-admitted. She ended up on Methadone of all things! [um, my mom, not Tsu, I think...].
Hmm...ailing mother-in-law or toxic black mold... thinking... thinking... thinking... okay, Tsu, you're off the hook, you definitely got the worst end of that deal. :wink:
 
  • #22
Moonbear said:
Hmm...ailing mother-in-law or toxic black mold... thinking... thinking... thinking...

I yelled this back to Tsu [in tub], and she's in there cracking up. :biggrin:
 
  • #23
Ivan Seeking said:
I yelled this back to Tsu [in tub], and she's in there cracking up. :biggrin:

:rofl: Especially since we've determined your mom is a lot like my mom, I'd choose the mold too. :rofl:
 

What happens when you give an engineer a well?

When you give an engineer a well, they will first assess the location and depth of the well to determine its potential use and functionality.

What materials do engineers typically use to construct a well?

The materials used to construct a well vary depending on the type and location of the well. However, engineers may use materials such as concrete, steel, or PVC pipes to create a sturdy and durable well.

How does an engineer ensure the safety and reliability of a well?

Engineers follow strict guidelines and regulations to ensure the safety and reliability of a well. This includes conducting thorough testing and inspections, using high-quality materials, and adhering to proper construction techniques.

Can an engineer design a well for different purposes?

Yes, engineers can design wells for various purposes such as water supply, irrigation, or geothermal energy. The design will depend on the specific needs and requirements of the project.

What are the potential challenges an engineer may face when working on a well?

Some challenges an engineer may face when working on a well include unexpected geological conditions, limited access to the site, and strict environmental regulations. Engineers must use their knowledge and expertise to overcome these challenges and ensure the successful completion of the project.

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