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What is a sin

  1. Jun 23, 2003 #1
    ok people here is a little test moral charactor, reply to this thread with a list of things you consider to be sins / im-moral.

    and we'll discuss them.

  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 23, 2003 #2
    Murder: What is a concrete definition of murder? Does a soldier do murder?

    Rape: Everyone agreed that this is a sin?

    Theft: Taking something from someone else? Under what conditions is it ok to do this? e.g. if they had first stolen it off you, is this ok?

    What other classes of sin are there?
  4. Jun 23, 2003 #3
    ok good points

    murder: is the killing of another person, so this wrong / a sin / immoral

    rape: yep i think we are all agreed on this one

    theft: humm ok i would agree completely with you on this one as well.
  5. Jun 23, 2003 #4
    Well, plus, you named the big ones.

    To kill someone else outside of self-defense, is murder. A soldier (conveniently enough) puts him/herself into a situation where others will try to kill him/her, and thus becomes justified in killing (kill or be killed, so to speak).

    Thus, a soldier doesn't commit murder, but s/he does kill someone unnecessarily (IMO), which is really just as bad.

    Yes. I don't think it can be emphasized strongly enough, as this is one of the (if not the very) worst sin one can commit against another.

    Actually, theft is taking something from someone else without their permission. The only reason I can think of now, for it to be OK to steal, would be if you were serving a higher purpose (of some kind).

    Well, I don't think so, but I guess that (like every other point here) is up for debate.
  6. Jun 23, 2003 #5
    Don't compromise yourself. It's all you've got. :wink:
  7. Jun 23, 2003 #6


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    Someone calling someone else a sinner.
  8. Jun 23, 2003 #7


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    To conceal the truth to promote ones mythology over facts.

    To make important life decisions based on a mythology which in the end of the respective book, will have every man, woman, and child dead.

    To add to the others.

    I think, if one is hungry enough, and none of these good people will take the time to help, and has no other choice but to steal to live, then there is justification. I think most people in this position are probably afraid/ashamed to ask a stranger for help.

    And really, saying a soldier is justified by being in a Kill or be killed situation is similar to saying a theif is justified by being in a Steal or starve to death situation.

    So, in light of the above, I'd have to add:

    Don't be afraid to ask, the worst that can happen is they say no.
  9. Jun 23, 2003 #8
    i don't believe that one can sin. in the big picture i mean, what does murder or rape, or theft mean? it's just a bunch of organic life forms damaging other life forms. but in a moral civilization like ours we make rules and boundaries that do not really exist. don't take me wrong, i think rape, murder, ect. are wrong and horrible, but only when taken out of context (so to speak).
  10. Jun 24, 2003 #9
    but in the context of society what would you say are sins/im-moral,

    when you say that the boundraies do not exist you are wrong, they exist becuase we have made them.

    to steal from someone is not justified unless the object had already been stolen from you, it then becomes taken back pocession of what is already yours,

    i would define murder as the intentional killing of another person, therefore yes although its in self-defense a soldier does murder.

    rape obiously wrong.

    how about cruelty to animals, is this wrong or is it ok,

    premarital sex?


    come on lets not only discuss the obvious ones.
  11. Jun 24, 2003 #10
    I think that the one moral question from which all others spawn is: "How does an action harm others?"

    If an action does not harm or inhibit others, then I can see nothing wrong with it.

    So, yes, animal cruelty is immoral.
    Premarital sex is not necessarily wrong. A specific instance could be, depending on other factors. For example, having unprotected sex with someone when you know that you have HIV or Siphylis would be wrong.
    Homosexuality in not inherently wrong either.
  12. Jun 24, 2003 #11
    How about this:

    Taking that which does not belong to you... which would include murder, rape and theft. What does it NOT include...or, if NOT included, are these then NOT "SINS".

    For instance, homosexuality would NOT be a sin if that which is received if freely given.

    Cruelty to animals would BE a sin, as we have no right to take the pleasure from their existence ....to replace it with PAIN.

    Maybe, then, it is a "sin" to take the life of any animal. Or maybe, on some level, there is an "agreement" that they will "give" their life...but this would not include pain.

    I'm just thinking out loud ...well, not exactly ...but am curious to see if this hold water.

    And, it occurs to me that posting replies that "disempower" another poster might be a sin...

    The REAL question is: Who's the Judge???
  13. Jun 24, 2003 #12
    to what extent? we are carnivours. (feel those fangs on your upper jaw?) they were designed to rip through the flesh of another creature. this is obviously a painful process for the little critter, but is it wrong?

    exactly my point. it's all relative. just as one cannot preferr your speed relative to another person, you cannot perferr your values/morals relative to another person.
  14. Jun 24, 2003 #13
    Yes, but what do they mean by "sin-ister?" :wink:
  15. Jun 24, 2003 #14
    There's no such thing as sin...not in a meaningful way. After all, even rape was socially approved in the Bible...
  16. Jun 24, 2003 #15


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    WHICH society? Because if you accept that "sins" are basically from society and from man, then the conclusion is simple. Everything prohibited in your little book of law is sinful.

    Tax evasion is a sin.
    Being called Osama Bin Laden is a sin.
    Taking drugs in a sin.

    Unless you allow the concept of personal morality - that the idea of ethics in each person has capacity to vary, that is...
  17. Jun 24, 2003 #16
    I don't think they're being sin-cere.
  18. Jun 24, 2003 #17
    Perhaps it all beigins with a lie then? ... To oneself? :wink:
  19. Jun 24, 2003 #18
    speaking of lieing, is lieing a sin? fraud?
  20. Jun 24, 2003 #19
    I would think so, if it means lying to somebody in order to take advantage of their gullibility. Whereas fraud would be the same as stealing.
  21. Jun 25, 2003 #20
    I think the entire idea of sin is flawed. Sure, we could say that any action that harms another being is a sin, but then any action we take will somehow harm someone else. Driving a car releases pollution, pollution causes lung cancer, therefore driving a car is a sin. Eating a 12 oz steak for dinner is a sin because you are killing an animal for your own selfish needs.

    Would it be right to limit the definition of a sin to something that only harms humans? That would make it ok to massacre cats for sheer pleasure but wrong to do the same to humans. That doesnt seem reasonable, since cats are really not to blame for being less intelligent or lacking the ability to hold tools in their hands.

    Then you could say that an action is only a sin when its done with the intent of hurting another being. Killing a cow would not be a sin, because the intent is not to harm the how per se, but to feed one's self. But then again, what if you rape an underage girl (which I'm sure most of us would consider wrong) with the intent of, not necessarily hurting her, but fulfilling your sexual desires. How is sexual desire that different from a food craving? We have just as much control over a sexual craving as we do over a craving for a 12 oz steak. Both the cow and the rape victim would get harmed in the process, but in neither case was the intent to harm the being.

    Thus I have to conclude that there is no such thing as sin, outside of what the individual defines for himself in his present knowledge of the outside world.

    (please don't get me wrong. i am by no means trying to justify massacaring cats or stagetory rape. those were just examples.)
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