What is terrorism?

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  • #51
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What is terrorism? :frown:
This is:

http://ttd.cache.el-mundo.net/fotografia/2004/03/atentados/imagenes/atentados01.jpg [Broken]

http://ttd.cache.el-mundo.net/documentos/2004/03/espana/atentados11m/imagenes/atentados03.jpg [Broken]

http://ttd.cache.el-mundo.net/documentos/2004/03/espana/atentados11m/imagenes/heridostratada.jpg [Broken]
 
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  • #52
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russ_watters said:
Where did you get that list? Its pretty bad - it doesn't differentiate between military actions and terrorism (among other things). If you want to claim that every military action is terrorism, present an argument.
I've seen that list before; it's from the Library of Congress. They've got another list that has all the military interventions since 1798. Here it is, from the US Government Printing Office:
http://www.maxwell.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/crs/rl30172.pdf
 
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  • #53
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russ_watters:

Acording to the definition of terrorism by the Usa Gov. :

Terrorism is:
"the unlawful use of force against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population or any segment thereof, in the furtherance of political or social objectives"

When usa invade another country they decide if it's "Lawful" or not. of course from their point of view they will always be lawful, but they make the rulse.. so it's relative.. they are not lawful to me, and are not lawful to the countrys they are invading to.

So remove the word unlawful and name one usa military action that don't match the definition above.....

(Sorry my english, i am from argentina)
 
  • #54
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You heard about Al queda Burnsys? Or did you leave them out of the list deliberately, just like all the other terrorist organisations to make it easier for us to see you have no point?
 
  • #55
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of course i remember al queda.. you mean that terrorist organization that the CIA and pakistan trained and created back in the cold war to figth the russians? the same the us suported in bosnia to fight the serbs???

If we are talking about terrorism i think we have to talk of those who comited more acts of terrorism than any ohter.. if you find any terrorist organizations, who hasn't been trained by the cia. and commited more operations that the list i recently post, then tell me... i don't think al-queda has killed more than 1 millon people, just the number us killed ONLY in vietnam..

PD: i was listing only military actions by the us gov, to show they have no competition in terrorism.. they are number 1...

PD2: in case you forget:
Terrorism is: "the unlawful use of force against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population or any segment thereof, in the furtherance of political or social objectives"
 
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  • #56
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False Prophet said:
omin, can you clarify/rephrase that?
Terrorism is when an assault is made upon a group of people who directly or indirectly support a government that is exerting an unnecessary entropic force upon the human race. This entropic force causes hunger, disease, world distaster, war, defensive acts of terror, etc. This entropic force usually benefits a small group of individuals in the government, usually the ones responsible for the abject theory of entropy. Entropy is ignorance of balance and progress theories, in terms of diplomacy, development and trade between human groups. Remember the headlines: Intelligence Failure? That's Bush.

Bush Doctrine is Terrorism. It is pure Retard/Criminal Theory.

Sorry, I get a bit hurried and don't check my spelling and grammar. There ya go.
 
  • #57
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Burnsys said:
of course i remember al queda.. you mean that terrorist organization that the CIA and pakistan trained and created back in the cold war to figth the russians? the same the us suported in bosnia to fight the serbs???

If we are talking about terrorism i think we have to talk of those who comited more acts of terrorism than any ohter.. if you find any terrorist organizations, who hasn't been trained by the cia. and commited more operations that the list i recently post, then tell me... i don't think al-queda has killed more than 1 millon people, just the number us killed ONLY in vietnam..

PD: i was listing only military actions by the us gov, to show they have no competition in terrorism.. they are number 1...

PD2: in case you forget:
Terrorism is: "the unlawful use of force against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population or any segment thereof, in the furtherance of political or social objectives"
Don't be ridiculous. Communism is the largest killer in the history of the world.
http://humphrys.humanists.net/communism.html [Broken]
 
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  • #58
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Aquamarine said:
Don't be ridiculous. Communism is the largest killer in the history of the world.
I don't understand this. Communism is an idea and a political system. It is an abstract concept. People kill people. Guns kill people. How can you claim that an abstract idea has killed people?
 
  • #59
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Prometheus said:
I don't understand this. Communism is an idea and a political system. It is an abstract concept. People kill people. Guns kill people. How can you claim that an abstract idea has killed people?
Because Communism doesn't work. But it approves of dictorships and eliminating everything believed to stand in the way of the common good. When the system fails, more obstacles must be eliminated.

If you demand individual people, look no further than to Lenin, Stalin and Mao.
 
  • #60
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I think it goes beyond bush... he is a puppet of higer powers. is more. i think that american presidents are pre selected and trained much before elections..

It's not crazy to belive that the most powerfull people of the world, merge together and organize themselves to increase and maintain their power...

This people are those who control the banking system, the media, the most powerfull multinational corporations,Oil , weapons industry. and of course, goverments.

There are some organizations, the ones i think are behind every president usa have..

The Trilateral Commission
http://www.trilateral.org

The Council On Foreing Relations
http://www.cfr.org/
 
  • #61
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MiGUi said:
What is terrorism? :frown:
This is:

http://ttd.cache.el-mundo.net/fotografia/2004/03/atentados/imagenes/atentados01.jpg [Broken]

http://ttd.cache.el-mundo.net/documentos/2004/03/espana/atentados11m/imagenes/atentados03.jpg [Broken]

http://ttd.cache.el-mundo.net/documentos/2004/03/espana/atentados11m/imagenes/heridostratada.jpg [Broken]

you forgot this...


http://babykiller.com/ <---!
 
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  • #62
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Burnsys said:
There are some organizations, the ones i think are behind every president usa have..

The Council On Foreing Relations
http://www.cfr.org/
The Council was created specifically to plan out US world domination. Find the book Imperial Brain Trust, edited by Shoup/Minter.
"The main problem in the postwar world was whether the U.S. could be self-sufficient and do without the markets and raw materials of the British Empire, Western hemisphere, and Asia. The Council thought that the answer was no and that, therefore, the United States had to enter the war and organize a new world order satisfactory to the United States."
http://www.eco.utexas.edu/faculty/Cleaver/357Lsum_s2_ShoupMinter.html [Broken]
& yes, "communism" is more of a philosophy or concept; it was individuals who did all the killing. When the US kills 12000000 people over the years, impoverishes many millions more, & overthrows governments nonstop, is it "democracy" that does it, or even that abstract concept "America"??

re: "communism" (meaning what has become of Bolshevism) I don't think anyone would disagree that the Soviet Union, etc was a brutal authoritarian regime, which is why nobody is saying that it was. It's because that obvious. There were many instances though, where the US was doing exactly the same thing the old USSR was doing. Just ask a South Vietnamese, Thai, Cambodian, East Timorese, Guatemalan, Nicaraguan, Grenadan, Cuban, Iranian, Iraqi, Palestinian, Venezuelan, Uruguayan, etc, etc.

re: communism (real communism) is more like libertarian socialism than whatever was running China, USSR, etc way back when.
 
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  • #63
russ_watters
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Burnsys said:
russ_watters:

Acording to the definition of terrorism by the Usa Gov. :

Terrorism is:
"the unlawful use of force against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population or any segment thereof, in the furtherance of political or social objectives"

When usa invade another country they decide if it's "Lawful" or not. of course from their point of view they will always be lawful, but they make the rulse.. so it's relative.. they are not lawful to me, and are not lawful to the countrys they are invading to.

So remove the word unlawful and name one usa military action that don't match the definition above.....
Only one? Too easy. How about Iraq, 1991? That was a UN mandate.

Also, United States; 2001 - uh, how is that terrorism? You didn't even read your own list, did you?

Also, you seem to be a little confused about the definition: being unlawful is not the only critereon for it to be terrorism.

Reading your last post though - those are two of the most absurd conspiracy theories out there. Truly rediculous. If you honestly believe those, there really is nothing to discuss - you need help.
 
  • #64
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Burnsys said:
I think it goes beyond bush... he is a puppet of higer powers. is more. i think that american presidents are pre selected and trained much before elections..

It's not crazy to belive that the most powerfull people of the world, merge together and organize themselves to increase and maintain their power...

This people are those who control the banking system, the media, the most powerfull multinational corporations,Oil , weapons industry. and of course, goverments.

There are some organizations, the ones i think are behind every president usa have..

The Trilateral Commission
http://www.trilateral.org

The Council On Foreing Relations
http://www.cfr.org/

I agree,Bush, Kerry,Clinton,Sharon and the rest of them around the world are puppets,but if we want to change our world for better first we have to start changing ourselfs.What we do on daily basis(eat,shop,believe,learn) can have profound impact for the better.
 
  • #65
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russ_watters said:
Only one? Too easy. How about Iraq, 1991? That was a UN mandate.
Iraq 1991? "It's the first half of 1990. The dismantling of the Berlin wall is being carried out on a daily basis. Euphoria about the end of the cold war and optimism about the beginning of a new era of peace and prosperity are hard to contain. The Bush administration is under pressure to cut the monster military budget and institute a "peace dividend". But George Bush, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, former Texas oil man, and former Director of the CIA, is not about to turn his back on his many cronies in the military-industrial-intelligence complex. He rails against those who would "naively cut the muscle out of our defense posture", and insists that we must take a cautious attitude towards reform in the USSR. In February, it's reported that "the administration and Congress are expecting the most acrimonious hard-fought defense budget battle in recent history"; and in June that "tensions have escalated" between Congress and the Pentagon "as Congress prepares to draft one of the most pivotal defense budgets in the past two decades". A month later, a Senate Armed Services subcommittee votes to cut military manpower by nearly three times more than recommended by the Bush administration ... "The size and direction of the cuts indicate that President Bush is losing his battle on how to manage reductions in military spending."
...
"One day after using Iraq's invasion of Kuwait to help save the high-tech B-2 bomber, senators invoked the crisis again Friday to stave off the mothballing of two World War II-vintage battleships."
....
"The possible beneficiaries" of the crisis, added the Washington Post, "cover the spectrum of companies in the defense industry."
...
Washington pushed a dozen resolutions through the Security Council condemning Iraq, imposing severe economic sanctions, and getting "authorization" to wage war. Only Cuba and Yemen voted against any of them. When Yemen's delegate received some applause for his negative vote on the key use-of-force resolution of 29 November, US Secretary of State Baker, who was presiding, said to his delegation: " I hope he enjoyed that applause, because this will turn out to be the most expensive vote he ever cast." The message was relayed to the Yemenis, and within days, the tiny Middle-East nation suffered a sharp reduction in US
aid.
....
Here's how the LA Times viewed it:
Shortly after Iraq's invasion ... Bush carefully compared Iraq's aggression with the German aggression against Poland that launched World War II. But he stopped short of a personal comparison of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein with Adolf Hitler. That caution went out the window last month, when Bush not only compared Hussein to Hitler but also threatened Nuremberg-style war crime trials. Then, last week, Bush went further, briefly maintaining that the Iraqi leader is worse than Hitler because the Germans never held U.S. citizens as "human shields" at military sites.

After this trivializing of the Holocaust, Bush went on to
warn that any acceptance of uncontrolled aggression "could be
world war tomorrow". Said one of his own officials: "Got to get
his rhetoric under control."
....
"

etc etc
you can read the rest here:
http://members.aol.com/bblum6/iraq2.htm [Broken]
 
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  • #66
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Burnsys said:
of course i remember al queda.. you mean that terrorist organization that the CIA and pakistan trained and created back in the cold war to figth the russians? the same the us suported in bosnia to fight the serbs???
The CIA has agents that were trained by many different countries. Scratch the US from the list!
 
  • #67
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russ_watters said:
Only one? Too easy. How about Iraq, 1991? That was a UN mandate.

Also, United States; 2001 - uh, how is that terrorism? You didn't even read your own list, did you?

Also, you seem to be a little confused about the definition: being unlawful is not the only critereon for it to be terrorism.

Reading your last post though - those are two of the most absurd conspiracy theories out there. Truly rediculous. If you honestly believe those, there really is nothing to discuss - you need help.

What are the two of the most absurd conspiracy teories????
The trilateral comison and the council on foreing relations????
I am not saying anything they say it all in their oficial websites..

Are you deniing those organizations even exist???

The Trilateral Commission
http://www.trilateral.org

The Council On Foreing Relations
http://www.cfr.org/

--------------------------------------------------
From their Website:

Founded in 1921, the Council on Foreign Relations is an independent, national membership organization and a nonpartisan center for scholars dedicated to producing and disseminating ideas so that individual and corporate members, as well as policymakers, journalists, students, and interested citizens in the United States and other countries, can better understand the world and the foreign policy choices facing the United States and other governments. The Council, which is headquartered in New York with an office in Washington, DC, does this by:

Convening meetings in New York, Washington and in other select American cities where senior government officials, global leaders, and prominent thinkers come together with Council members to debate and discuss the major foreign policy issues of our time;

Conducting a wide-ranging studies program where Council fellows produce articles and books that analyze foreign policy issues and make concrete policy recommendations;

Publishing Foreign Affairs, the preeminent journal covering international affairs and U.S. foreign policy;

Maintaining a diverse membership, including special programs to foster interest and expertise in the next generation of foreign policy leaders;

Sponsoring independent task forces whose reports help set the public foreign policy agenda; and

Providing up-to-date information about the world and U.S. foreign policy on the Council’s website, www.cfr.org.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
How is the Council managed? Who is in charge?
The Council is governed by a standard corporate structure: the Chairman of the 31-member board provides overall direction, the President leads the daily operations.

Peter G. Peterson, Chairman of the Blackstone Group, a private investment bank, is Chairman of the Council. Carla A. Hills, Chair and Chief Executive Officer of Hills & Company, and Robert E. Rubin, a Director and Chairman of the Executive Committee of Citigroup, Inc., are Vice Chairmen. Richard N. Haass, a former senior government official, is President.


Who are the members of the Council? How and why are they selected?The Council's 4,000 members are divided almost equally among New York, Washington D. C. and the rest of the nation. They are leaders in government, business, finance, media, academia and a wide range of nonprofit organizations.

Every candidate for membership must be formally proposed in writing by one member and seconded by a minimum of three other individuals. Letters from members are strongly encouraged. Quality, diversity and balance are the key objectives sought by the Council in the composition of its membership.

The roster of members is listed in the annual report.
------------------------------------------------------------
I am not sayng anything they say it all in their web site.... Amazing you have never heard of them in the news right?????? well. they own the news..

Actualy, al this leaders in government, business, finance, media, academia etc, gather together only to drink some tea, and tell some jokes... there is no conspiracy.
 
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  • #68
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studentx said:
The CIA has agents that were trained by many different countries. Scratch the US from the list!
Yes.. of course.. another example of US interventionism... covert operetions by the cia on sovereign countrys,, coups and overtrow of democraticaly elected goverments....

the entire list i post before ar ALL US interventions in foreing countrys.... ONLY US interventions
 
  • #69
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Burnsys said:
the entire list i post before ar ALL US interventions in foreing countrys.... ONLY US interventions
Doh. I just dont get why you post it. You defeat your own point by making it blindingly clear your information is biased.
 
  • #70
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studentx said:
Doh. I just dont get why you post it. You defeat your own point by making it blindingly clear your information is biased.

It's not biased.. it is oficial information, and what point???? that the usa has commited more acts of terrorism that any actual "Terrorist Organization". That is my point-

Burnsys... FAIR AND BALANCED! hahaha
 
  • #71
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Burnsys said:
Burnsys... FAIR AND BALANCED! hahaha
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
  • #72
russ_watters
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fourier jr, I don't know that I've seen such little relevance take so many words to say before. But if you feel like making an argument to support the point, go for it.

Burnsys, I'm not denying that they exist, the conspiracy theory is in that they control the world. (of course, that would beg the question - if they did control the world, are they fighting each other for that control?)

Also, you haven't presented an argument yet...
 
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  • #73
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russ_watters said:
fourier jr, I don't know that I've seen such little relevance take so many words to say before.
1. the US manipulated the UN
2. the real reasons for the Iraq ataq #1 were Bush's popularity (or lack of...) and the impending military budget cuts.

was that a just war or what?


re: CFR I don't think that they control the world, but they are definitely the ones who have been planning out US world domination for the last 80 years. Here's the review/synopsis of the definitive study on the Council on Foreign Relations again:
http://www.eco.utexas.edu/faculty/Cleaver/357Lsum_s2_ShoupMinter.html [Broken]

having actually read that book I can verify that pretty much all the stuff about the post-WWII world order came from the CFR's own War & Peace Studies. (see the section of the synopsis on Shaping a New World Order) One single article had about 200 references to Council documents or studies.
 
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  • #74
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russ_watters: I think creating circumstance for terrorism is also terrorism. Middle east , no doubt is the most abused and manipulated region of the world.
 
  • #75
russ_watters
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fourier jr said:
1. the US manipulated the UN
2. the real reasons for the Iraq ataq #1 were Bush's popularity (or lack of...) and the impending military budget cuts.

was that a just war or what?
Assume for the sake of argument both are true. That doesn't necessarily lead to your conclusion (Iraq did, afterall, invade their neighbor), but assume that is true as well. What does any of that have to do with terrorism? Answer: nothing.

Microburst: since its our existence that is causing this terrorism (they have said it quite explicitly), that makes every victim also a terrorist. That's some pretty twisted logic.

Both of you are having trouble dealing with the fact that words have objective definitions. You simply don't want to use the word as it is defined because of what it means (which is a pretty ironic problem).
 

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