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News What is wrong with the Islamic world?

  1. Oct 17, 2004 #1
    http://humphrys.humanists.net/islamic.world.html [Broken]
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 19, 2004 #2
    Might have something to do with being a 14th century society.
  4. Oct 20, 2004 #3
    When religion has the power, the fundamentalism rises and rises. In Europe we spend many efforts and many blood to reach the humanism, then the Renaissance and finally the religion was separated from governments.

    Islamic religion says that anyone which don't believe in Alá and so its stuff must to be killed to save its soul, or else converted. This kind of religion can't coexist with us. The christian religion respects the other religions, but islamic don't.

    In fact, all can be reduced to this: Is they, or us. They medieval society, or our modern society.

    They will no stop until we were blown off. So we must destroy them before.
  5. Oct 23, 2004 #4
    As a matter of fact islam does not say that anyone which don't believe in Alá and so its stuff must to be killed to save its soul, or else converted.
    Why don't you study more about this religion. True muslims have the least to do with terrorist attacks. i was shocked by the 9/11 accident. My religion islam states that " there should no force used against people to make them change their religion.The choice of religion is birthright". Apart from this it is a rule that a muslim must convey the message of islam as much as possible as long as it does not offend people from other cultures and religions i.e shoving religious facts under their noses when they don't like it.
  6. Oct 23, 2004 #5
    I know that all people is not fundamentalism, but I have read some passages on the Coran. You can say that the Bible has also very hard passages, but we don't use the Bible to make our laws. You also can find some precious passages in both, that is not all the book. The problem is the culture.

    Where womans are treated like ****, human rights don't exist, and so and so and so... the islamic world lives in the 14th century. When the religion is mixed with politics, the things don't work good for freedom.

    I know what I am saying, even you believe or not.

    Here, they have to wear as its culture, be respected in his religion, but ours not.

    Peace is needed, but respecting our cultures. If you come to an occidental country, respect the occidental culture. Don't try to change it.
  7. Oct 23, 2004 #6


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    Even among the fundamentalists, few are extremists, and even among extremests, it is not the majority view that the west should be conquered.
  8. Oct 23, 2004 #7


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    So what do you think about this website: http://www.conservativebookclub.com/Join/JoinBookPage.asp?prod_cd=C6077 [Broken] which contains this item:

    What sort of spin do you personally choose to put on Sura 9:5?
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  9. Oct 23, 2004 #8


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    As a muslim, I am shocked to see that non muslims and even some muslims have not understood what the True Islam is. Please view this website to see a more friendly, therefore, more correct approach of Islam, then go on discussing to reach the Ultimate Knowledge.

    As a reply to dear Janitor's message, I can say that the author has to make much effort to understand the true meaning of Islam. War is the last option, and if we have to do this, then we might. True form of Islam considers the issue like that.
  10. Oct 23, 2004 #9


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    Chem tr, the website you linked to says this:

    In light of Sura 9:5 quoted in a post above, is it fair to conclude that the Qu'ran contains contradictions? If so, can it truly be the Word of a deity?
  11. Oct 23, 2004 #10


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    No, no, no. It is us who cannot understand the Holy Quran and make different suggestions about it. These two sites deal with the issue in their own points of view, I don't find it correct to say that one of them is the correct one.

    There are sinister plots onto Quran in order not to be truly and wholeheartedly understood, if this would be done, you couldn't encounter a Muslim terrorist, killer, etc. I want to repeat it once again, for centuries, we, Muslims, have not understood Quran in the right way, and it caused us to be "fundamentalists". In one sura, it is translated that "If you don't work your mind, I'll shower filth on you". This sentence tries to say that if you stop the act of thinking, you cannot adapt yourselves to the new consequences; and religious sources suggest another thing, "you are wasting your life if two of your days are completely equal". I don't want to extend the post, so as a conclusion, if we learn how to think of and adapt ourselves, then the barbarous, disrespectful, and primitive scenes will vanish.

    Take care.
  12. Oct 23, 2004 #11

    No, there will be no progress until there is more capitalism.

    And so long that a significant resentful minority belives otherwise and can gain access to WMD, the more capitalistic countries cannot simply ignore the less capitalistic until they grow up on their own.

    This doesn't mean that a military invasion is a good answer. For example, deregulating the nuclear industry would lower the unproductive income of the nations that strongly support terrorism. Hopefully this would force them to change their society, build a real productive economy and gain back their pride.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2017
  13. Oct 23, 2004 #12

    Are you blinded by faith?

  14. Oct 23, 2004 #13
    Women in Iraq under Saddam had almost all the rights as the men had,and couple other countries were quite progressive.But Iraq was the most liberal towards women.
    Also Syria,Palestine,Turkey have are not that bad.
    By the way ,why all the attention towards muslim nations? do you guys read what is going on in India, absolute disaster almost feudalism,women are treated worst than animals!
    Where is the outrage about China's women?
    Liberalization of muslim nations can happenen and women could have same rights but west should stand aside and not intrefere.It takes time.
    Liberalization with American tanks and jets only makes things worst,but problem of course is that arabs have all the oil.
  15. Oct 23, 2004 #14
    It is true that one shouldn't focus only on muslim nations. Arguably the worst political system ever was communism, both to its own people and as threat to others. But it has mostly disappeared from the face of the earth now, having mostly collapsed on its own. It is interesting to compare the Vietnam war to Iraq, a war which the US lost militarily but has now essentially won when the system collapsed by itself.

    There is also little capitalism in large parts of Africa, India or South America. What is different with the Middle East is the oil and that some terrorists are threatening other countries with WMD. But I think these are connected, the capitalistic countries don't need to be dependent on oil and don't need to fund the terrorists, the playboy lifestyles of ruling elites and an education system and priesthood that teaches religion and little practical skills.
  16. Oct 23, 2004 #15


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    In India and China, the government does not discriminate against women. The constitutions of these countries do not assign a lower status to women. The are protected equally under the law.

    India has had a woman Head of State, voted for two terms by the people. In India, the Congress Party (the Left wing party currently in power) has had more women leaders than men. At any time, about a quarter of the states have women Chief Ministers (=Governors). Women make up a greater fraction of the wealthiest 20% in India than most western countries. There are women in top positions in government, business, academia, sport, entertainment and international diplomacy.

    The only incidents of ill-treated women are in socially and economically backward areas, where these incidents are related to social stigma rather than legal status. This is common to many developing/underdeveloped countries and is not a result of women's legal status or protection under the law. And you can read what is going on, only if the country has a free press that will talk about the cruelty faced by women. This simply does not exist in most Islamic states.

    There is NO law (in India, China, etc.) that says that a rape victim needs 5 male witnesses to win her case. There is no law telling a woman what to wear, whom to touch, how to cry, how to bathe her children, how to bathe herself after sex, where to work, or who to screw.

    Tumor, once again, you are making little sense.

    PS : This is not about Iraq, which had a secular ruling body under Saddam and the Ba'athists.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2004
  17. Oct 23, 2004 #16
    terrorism: The punishment for those who wreak havoc is extremely harsh (5:33-34). Terrorism has as little to do with Islam as burning a cross to terrorize a black family has to do with Christianity. Terrorism is often done by haters of Islam, peace and justice to sabotage good Muslims causes such as peace settlements, democracy movements and modernization. No Islamic teaching supports terrorism.

    suicide "martyrdom": "Do not kill yourselves." (4:29). Self-killers are condemned to hell. Even killing oneself to end extreme pain is unacceptable. Some radical sects, considered non-Muslim by most, view suicide-killing as legitimate.

    martyrdom: A martyr (Arabic shaheed=witness) is somebody who dies as a witness for goodness or a witness against evil. A martyr testifies before God about the evil-doers that killed him/her and about the goodness his/her death creates in society.

    scarves for women: This is based on a verse in the Koran. "And let them spread their scarves over their shirt openings and not show their natural adornment . . ." (24:31) If Muslim women choose not to cover their head, there is no Islamic law punishing them or coercing them. Styles of dress are cultural and vary according to culture throughout the Islamic world.

    female genital mutilation: This is found in some African countries and is a very painful tribal practice passed down to the present day. It is not based on Islamic teaching. Many Muslim women, such as the wife of the late Anwar Sadat, are working hard to eliminate the practice.
  18. Oct 23, 2004 #17
    chem_tr and Ethanol I have some bad news for you. Allah loves terrorist more than he loves you.

    So if you want Allah to love you, you need to get off your butts, get out there and kill people.

    I have read and studied Islam. The more I learn the more evil Islam becomes.

    To be a Christian is to be Christ like.
    To be a Buddhist is to be Buddha like
    To be a Moslem is to be Mohammad like.

    And what was Mohammad like?

    Here is a good bedtime story about the prophet of peace, may he burn in Hell.

  19. Oct 23, 2004 #18
    You can also find many "evil" passages in the Bible:

    Last edited: Oct 23, 2004
  20. Oct 23, 2004 #19
    Either you being very dishonest the way you are taking things out of context or you are very ignorant of the Quarn.
    Yes. " The punishment for those who wreak havoc is extremely harsh." but only for those who wreak havoc against Allah and his messenger, not terrorists.

    Muhammad allowing a lame old man to go into battle in hopes of becoming a martyr? Isn't that Suicide? And what would he testify to before Allah, that Muhammad allowed him to go?
    The only way Allah can tell the difference between "believers and hypocrites" is for them to die in battle? I'm sure glad I don't worship Allah.
    Did you ever read 24:31? It says a Muslim women can walk around half naked in front of the male members of her household and for her not to jiggle her breast when she walks.
    Read "let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments" as cover your bosoms and don't expose your breasts. Except to.....
    Read "let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known" as don't jiggle your breast when you walk.
    Perhaps the wife of the late Anwar Sadat should be working hard to eliminate the practice of suicide bombings and beheadings. That can be very painful to.
  21. Oct 23, 2004 #20
    Only a single source? Surely you could find more hate Christian sites than just one. Try http://www.exchristian.net/forums/
    Yes, all that and more is in the Bible.

    I told you a few evil things that Muhammad did, (want me to name more?) now tell me some evil things that Christ or Budda did.

    Yes I am familiar with religiousINtolerance.org

    What no "SLAVERY:In the Quarn and today's world??? How many slaves did Christ own and how many did Muhammad own?

    Overview of the Sudan situation: This article is a bunch of crap the way they play down or justify slavery in the Sudan, just because Christians are the ones being enslaved by Moslems.

    If you want to talk about slavery, start with these websites, then we can talk about Islam and slavery today, not something that happened 150 years ago.

    http://www.antislavery.org/index.htm [Broken]
    http://mykindredspirit2.home.att.net/ [Broken]

    And the most famous of all: Amnesty International
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
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