What is your IQ?

[zoobyshoe]

I'm only talking about the labels you use when speaking to the children themselves. Most children don't have a mature, adult mentality; they're more impressionable, their self-image is still forming, and so on. You understand what I mean here, yes?

Yeah, but where are you getting the idea anyone was calling children a "problem" or a "problem child" to their face? You just kind of pulled that out of thin air. This vocabulary is mostly invented for teachers and councelors to be able to talk to parents about their kids's.

 

[zoobyshoe]

My IQ drops each time someone asks this question @ PF.

Yeah, mine's getting into negative values.

 

[daveb]

I thnk IQ can tell you quite a bit about a person,

But people who spout out their IQ tell you even more about themselves.

 

[honestrosewater]

Yeah, but where are you getting the idea anyone was calling children a "problem" or a "problem child" to their face?

Sorry, let me go back on this one cause it's bothering me now. A phrase like problem child normally means a child who is a problem = a child who is problematic. Even if this phrase has a special, different meaning, most English speakers who haven't learned the special meaning are going to interpret the phrase in the normal way. And even after the special meaning is learned, the normal meaning is still there. (Not that I think you didn't already know that -- it just seems like you're not considering it.) So I think your distinction between calling a child a problem child and calling them a problem is weak at best.

You just kind of pulled that out of thin air. This vocabulary is mostly invented for teachers and councelors to be able to talk to parents about their kids's.

What vocabulary is used around the kids then? And what makes you think the terms used around the adults never reach the kids?
The reason I jumped in here is because gifted was the name of some programs when I was in school; it was also sometimes used for the kids in the programs. The adults and kids heard and used the term, and I never got the impression that it meant a smart, talented problem child. Actually, I tihnk the official name of one of the programs was something else, ESE or somesuch, but it was rarely ever called that. Perhaps one term was meant to be used only among adults and the other was meant to be used around the children.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Sorry, let me go back on this one cause it's bothering me now. A phrase like problem child normally means a child who is a problem = a child who is problematic. Even if this phrase has a special, different meaning, most English speakers who haven't learned the special meaning are going to interpret the phrase in the normal way. And even after the special meaning is learned, the normal meaning is still there. (Not that I think you didn't already know that -- it just seems like you're not considering it.) So I think your distinction between calling a child a problem child and calling them a problem is weak at best.

I didn't invent the term. I'm reporting my sense of what people mean when they use it. I have personally never refered to any kid as a problem, problem child, or gifted.

What vocabulary is used around the kids then? And what makes you think the terms used around the adults never reach the kids?

The term almost certainly gets to the kid at one point or another. I get the feeling you think I approve of the term. I, personally, think it's quite stupid.

The reason I jumped in here is because gifted was the name of some programs when I was in school; it was also sometimes used for the kids in the programs. The adults and kids heard and used the term, and I never got the impression that it meant a smart, talented problem child.

What did it seem like people meant when they said it?

 

[Evo]

I have never heard the term "gifted" to carry any negative meaning. I can't find any referrence anywhere that supports what you are saying zoob, where did you find this definition?

The Merriam Webster dictionary says:

gifted

1 : having great natural ability : TALENTED <gifted children>

 

[zoobyshoe]

I have never heard the term "gifted" to carry any negative meaning. I can't find any referrence anywhere that supports what you are saying zoob, where did you find this definition?
The Merriam Webster dictionary says:
gifted
1 : having great natural ability : TALENTED <gifted children>

It's in the link in the OP.

 

[Evo]

It's in the link in the OP.

"Giftedness, as defined by The Columbus Group (1991), is "asynchronous development in which advanced cognitive abilities and heightened intensity combine to create inner experiences and awareness that are qualitatively different from the norm. This asynchrony increases with higher intellectual capacity. The uniqueness of the gifted renders them particularly vulnerable and requires modifications in parenting, teaching and counseling in order for them to develop optimally."

In other words, the gifted are those people who have significantly higher than normal levels of one or more forms of intelligence."

I don't see anything in that entire article that could remotely convey that "gifted" means "problem" as in being a "problem child".

 

[BobG]

Anywho, remember when Bart switched IQ tests with Martin and they thought he was a genius and sent him to gifted school? :rofl: I love that episode.

That was the first regular episode of the Simpsons. It's one of my favorite episodes, as well. r dr r :rofl:

It ranks right behind the episode where the school bus drives by the Volkswagon dealership. Our family always did the "Slugbug, no punchbacks!" thing, too - proof positive my entire family has high IQs. :rofl:

 

[zoobyshoe]

I don't see anything in that entire article that could remotely convey that "gifted" means "problem" as in being a "problem child".

What is a "problem child" to you, then?

 

[Evo]

What is a "problem child" to you, then?

a child that intentionally acts unruly/violent (running around, screaming, destroying things), is obnoxious, a bully.

 

[zoobyshoe]

a child that intentionally acts unruly/violent (running around, screaming, destroying things), is obnoxious, a bully.

OK. I have definitely heard it used that way. I've probably erroneously assumed an extention of the term to include any kid with a substantial personality or behavioral problem. So, if we go by this definition then the term "problem child" is incorrect when applied to "gifted" children.

 

[Evo]

OK. I have definitely heard it used that way. I've probably erroneously assumed an extention of the term to include any kid with a substantial personality or behavioral problem. So, if we go by this definition then the term "problem child" is incorrect when applied to "gifted" children.

Except when the gifted child is also a problem child. :tongue:

 

[zoobyshoe]

Except when the gifted child is also a problem child. :tongue:

Yes, and labeling some one a "gifted" child is pretty much like saying "I got good news, and I got bad news. Your child is gifted. That's the good news..."

 

[Artman]

I asked this same question when I first started to post here.

I got the same kind of responses. We know it is a number and that it has no real value other than perception, so why is there so much reluctance to tell us? It's obvious this is a site frequented by intelligent people, people who probably test well. I think it would be interesting to hear the numbers.

Mine was tested in grade school. I believe it was around 120. Not terribly high, but I remember being sick the day of the test (plagued by asthma and allergies, which I finally outgrew). I was also given a test as a small child (5 or 6 years old) that took several weeks and was administered by a psychologist (I was balking at going to school because of playground violence and a mean teacher, my parents were worried and had me tested). He said I was brilliant, almost a genius.

Come on people, I wrote down my 120. What are your meaningless numbers?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Come on people, I wrote down my 120. What are your meaningless numbers?

Apropos:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=104341

 

[Evo]

I also confess to having been a gifted child. I think my IQ is 158, I was told by the counselor at school it was 185, but trying to sneak a peak at the upside down paperwork she had, it looked like 158 to me. The schools that they had my parents look into for me (since they said they had no programs that could accommodate me) had a minimum entrance criteria of 140.

That wiki article describes me very accurately. I refused to play with other children because I felt they were stupid and immature. I would hide during recess so I could read. In the third grade I completed the entire school year's assignments and tests that were in our workbooks by the end of the third week of school. My teacher was upset and from then on they kept my books away from me and only handed them to me when I needed to do something in them. I would sit and listen to the other kids in the class struggling and I was bored to tears, I wanted to scream. A teacher explained to me that she couldn't teach two classes and since the others couldn't keep up with me, I had to slow down.

As a result, I hated school, dreaded it, my mother would ususally have to drag me to school. It wasn't until the school hired a new teacher (my 6th grade teacher) and she noticed I was "unusual" and requested testing, that they freaked out and everything changed, but it was too late, I wanted nothing to do with any school.

Glad that there are more programs now for kids that are "different" and fewer will have to go through what I did.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Evo, did you have this particular sensitivity:

Gifted children are often bothered by the seams in socks and tags on clothes.

 

[Evo]

Evo, did you have this particular sensitivity:

OH GOD YES!!!!!! Even little wrinkles in the sheets and on my pillowcase drove me nuts.

Noise, light & activity all bother me. I like darkness and silence. I can't stand to have background noise of any type.

At work, they have installed special shades over the lights in the ceiling over my desk for me.

 

[marlon]

I'm sure there a ton of gifted people here.

There are a lot of gifted people here. Gifted means you are just smart enough to realize you ain't no genius. Most educated people will belong to this group. Even most college professors and phd students, like myself...

regards
marlon

 

[zoobyshoe]

OH GOD YES!!!!!! Even little wrinkles in the sheets and on my pillowcase drove me nuts.
Noise, light & activity all bother me. I like darkness and silence. I can't stand to have background noise of any type.
At work, they have installed special shades over the lights in the ceiling over my desk for me.

What about this, then:

Underachievement

Another problem often associated with giftedness is underachievement. Many gifted students will continually do well on achievement or reasoning tests, but will fail to turn in assignments or attend or participate in class. Overall, they will be disengaged from the educational process. This can result from under-challenging schools, peer pressure for conformity, social isolation, and family dysfunction (Reis & Renzulli, 2004). In other cases it can result from other factors within the individual, including depression, anxiety, failure-avoidance, rebelliousness, irritability, nonconformity, or anger (Reis & McCoach, 2002). One apparently effective way to attempt to reverse underachievement in gifted children includes enrichment projects based on students’ strengths and interests (p. 86).

Did you find yourself "dumbing - down" for any of these reasons?

 

[nazgjunk]

Well, to get back to the topic: i had one or two iq tests in my life. The first one I made when i was seven, and i was horribly nervous, so that wouldnt be altogether representative. It said i had somewhere near 130 if i remember it right.
The second one i am not sure of, I made it but im not sure if it was an iq test. I had to make it for school to be selected into some program for above-average kids. I never got any results from that one, but I am in that program now, however without doing a thing with it.

 

[Evo]

What about this, then:"Underachievement

Another problem often associated with giftedness is underachievement. Many gifted students will continually do well on achievement or reasoning tests, but will fail to turn in assignments or attend or participate in class. Overall, they will be disengaged from the educational process."

Once I left elementary school, I stopped participating. I no longer cared. First year I got incompletes in several classes because of it, had to go to summer school, got jumped ahead by the school a few times to try to get me into a more appropriate level.

Did you find yourself "dumbing - down" for any of these reasons?

No, I just avoided talking and associating with other people. Everyone thought I was shy and introverted. (waiting for the zooby diagnosis)

 

[Artman]

Did you find yourself "dumbing - down" for any of these reasons?

That was me. I never did homework. If I did, I blew test curves. The class got mad at me.

 

[Blahness]

@Artman: I tend to blow up the test curves as well. "Listen up class, the class average was a 52. Ryan, you've got a 97. We're counting his as an A, and grading on a curve based on that."

It's like, oh WTF, DO YOU JUST WANT TO MAKE MY SOCIAL LIFE EVEN WORSE???

Teachers... -.-''

@Evo: For some reason, I'm the same way. When unoccupied, do your hands bend/shred whatever they can hold on to?

And yes, the kids at my school are retards. It's like, "Uh, what's a genome?" WE JUST EXPLAINED IT!!

Isolationism = me.



Anyway, back (on topic? lol), IQ is meaningless, but they've never tested me, though I got perfect A's in classes, and they wrote "Does not attempt to pass class" or something stupid like that. Sigh, now I'm stuck doing boring, meaningless work in school, which takes hours to do, but has no educational value at all. "Cut out paper and form a DNA molecule!"? I've not got time for that, I'm looking at the molecular structures of different bases, and what kind of interactions can take place.

Maybe if I were challenged, I'd actually TRY to do the work.

Oh well, back to pre-final super-homework(WHY GOD WHY?), So that I can blow off the study guide and get a 98% or higher in my finals.



Hey Evo, here's an idea: how about us smart people split off from the poisons of TV and Culture, and form our own cult/society/something like that? Get away from the idiots in politics and such, and live a life of learning! >_>


Anyway, That's just my self-centered rant, enjoy.