How can you successfully pursue a PhD in math?

[Pengwuino]

So what exactly do you need to get a phd when it comes to your "qualities". Is it only for the really smart or only for the super intense studiers or is it pretty much if your willing to give up to a decade of your life on a phd in physics, you'll be able to get it?

 

[goldi]

What i think anybody on this Earth can do phd who is sincere and can study a lot...
But i think it will be useful to those who are really keen on doing some First class work,,,That is the rare group of ppls who want to give mankind something..
For that a guy has to devote himself completely and you not going to curse working hard because it will you give much more happiness then girls+wine+all kind of leisure activities...
Its just the ladder of Excellence ,you have to keep moving

 

[PerennialII]

I'm with Goldi on this ... pretty much anyone can get a PhD ... it's how you do it and what you do with it that matters. Like in everything, I'd say the ones who really commit and have the 'drive' are those who can reach "meaningful" outcomes (well ... everyone has his own ... and who knows which ones are the ones that matter), rather than looking at educational backgrounds & whatnot.

 

[Pengwuino]

So why do so few people go for a phd? other then money... (even though it seems like you'd take out loans since a phd would easily pay it off in teh end).

 

[moose]

So why do so few people go for a phd? other then money... (even though it seems like you'd take out loans since a phd would easily pay it off in teh end).

I guess it would have to deal with time and some people get job offers which they immediately take up and think "hmm, I guess I don't need a Ph.D".

 

[neurocomp2003]

pursuit of study...wanting to learn more.

 

[Poop-Loops]

Because a BS usually isn't enough to satisfy someone's interest in a given subject. Especially since physics is a deep and complicated subject. Learning it all in 4 years is impossible unless you have like 15 eyes and can read 5 books at a time or something.

PL

 

[FancyNut]

What do you guys mean when you say stuff like 'everybody can get a Ph.D’?

I always thought BS/Masters were just learning materials. Just like your field and work hard and you'll come out on top. With a Ph.D my impression is that you have to be naturally talented. I mean doing research and publishing papers? That's different from studying a chapter, doing HW problems, then taking a test on it.

Also, how many years would a Ph.D in engineering take? Also 6-8 years? And what do you guys do for most of those years, take classes? Read papers/books on your field?

 

[StatusX]

Sort of related to this, I heard that getting a PhD doesn't end up costing anything because you always pay it off with RA or TA work, whihc everyone is expected to do. Is this true, and if so, is it the case for every college?

 

[MrJohnson]

Sort of related to this, I heard that getting a PhD doesn't end up costing anything because you always pay it off with RA or TA work, whihc everyone is expected to do. Is this true, and if so, is it the case for every college?

I know many who have been lucky enough to work the T.A./R.A. route and pay very little toward tuition, but at the same rate have known a few that had to pay their way through. So I am not sure it is like that at all schools, but if you are dedicated, you should come out fine.

 

[Pengwuino]

I know many who have been lucky enough to work the T.A./R.A. route and pay very little toward tuition, but at the same rate have known a few that had to pay their way through. So I am not sure it is like that at all schools, but if you are dedicated, you should come out fine.

One of my professors said you can get TA or RAships... but I've heard that people had to pay huge amounts and their "parents had to take out loans" to pay for their doctoral program. I think its different for each school...

 

[so-crates]

So why do so few people go for a phd? other then money... (even though it seems like you'd take out loans since a phd would easily pay it off in teh end).

1) Because not everyone gets accepted into PhD programs.

2) Even when they are accepted, some people stop at their masters due to frustration with the field - at one point are another almost everyone who is in a PhD program wonders if they should do this

3) Some people get essentially booted out of programs (cut off after their masters) because their committee decides not to fund them because they believe they can't make meaningful, original contributions to the field - happened to an in-law of mine (but don't fret too much , she went to law school and is making six figures as a patent lawyer now)

4) In a lot of fields, they are too many PhDs who are left to fight tooth and nail over grant money and professorships (Biology is one of these fields). This fact discourages a lot of people from getting a PhD, when they see people doing better finacially and spiritually in industry.

 

[mathwonk]

when i was discouraged about the difficulty of getting a Phd, one of my friends said, "you don't have to do anything great, you just have to do something."

Later another friend said "its like a bird chipping away a cliff with his beak: each day you do a little more, and eventually you get there."

it is definitely not easy. you have to be smart, and you have to work as hard as you possibly can. in fact one goal seems to be to get you to work as hard as you are capable of, but not harder.

so if you are willing to stay the course, and can be admitted to the program,yes you can very likely get a PhD.

it is worth it I think, if you are interested in science, since the result will be to lift you to a level higher than you were on before.

this is a nice feeling, but it takes hard work, indeed all you can give.

 

[PerennialII]

What do you guys mean when you say stuff like 'everybody can get a Ph.D’?

I always thought BS/Masters were just learning materials. Just like your field and work hard and you'll come out on top. With a Ph.D my impression is that you have to be naturally talented. I mean doing research and publishing papers? That's different from studying a chapter, doing HW problems, then taking a test on it.

Also, how many years would a Ph.D in engineering take? Also 6-8 years? And what do you guys do for most of those years, take classes? Read papers/books on your field?

Basically that there are PhDs who are morons and then those who are comparable to the great minds of the past (notice the relativity in use here ). Of course it is the degree of all degrees, but putting in the effort will result in a completion of the degree (with a very high probability). How much of it is required and what quality of work will result are open issues.

Doing research and publishing papers aren't really magical tasks, consider them a much larger than average "lab assignments" or so. For most of those years ... bang the wall while coming up theoretical/experimental/simulation/modeling - stuff and applying the scientific method ... just as the following years to come.

 

[Black Orpheus]

I agree with goldi too. If you're driven you can do it... But this means that the pursuit of knowledge in your field has to be the highest priority in your life. Anyone read Atlas Shrugged?

 

[Astronuc]

For Master and PhD degrees in science and engineering, one needs advanced classes (the course work) in the particular discipline.

By obtaining a Master's degree, one in theory is demonstrating the competency in and understanding of the dicipline, and importantly the ability to do research with some level of supervision.

With the completion of a PhD program, one should contribute new and independent research, basically advancing the state of the art. The keys here are 'independent' and 'new' research, not simply repetition of what has already been accomplished.

 

[bross7]

One of my professors said you can get TA or RAships... but I've heard that people had to pay huge amounts and their "parents had to take out loans" to pay for their doctoral program. I think its different for each school...

And depending on where you are there may not be enough TA/RA postitions available for all the graduate students. It would depend on the size of the department you are enrolled in.

I know personally, at the school I am currently enrolled in, that there are not enough TA positions and that a lot of them go to the international students because they are deemed to have greater need.

There are definatley PhD's who you have to scratch your head at and wonder how they managed to get the title, but I think this just emphasizes that pretty much anyone is capable get a PhD. That doesn't mean that anyone CAN get a PhD though. My personal belief is that a PhD candidate has to have a combination of natural ability (not everyone is going to be the top in their field so ability doesn't have to be the total thing, but you can't be a complete idiot and get a doctorate) and an endless work ethic. You have to be able to put in the extra hours to complete work. Take work home when things don't go well and think it through to try and see what is going wrong, and perhaps why. And if possible, to branch off that why into a secondary project if it is worth the effort.

And you have to be able to think and analyze. Not just read and regurgitate. If you read something you need to remember it and apply it to new circumstances.

 

[quasi426]

I am an undergraduate, but I believe anyone can get a Ph.D. if they wanted to do so. It is not the degree that they must 'want', but instead the desire to IMPROVE themselves and contribute something original. That is what I believe, but if anyone with a Ph.D. out there thinks otherwise I would be interested in other perspectives.

 

[zelcon]

Let me tell you this (my dad is has a Phd.):

Receiving a Phd. is difficult. It requires staying up til midnight, having a good work-ethic, discipline and a purpose for studying.

 

[James Jackson]

I'm just waiting for funding to be 100% confirmed for mine (this is one of the joys people doing PhDs have - getting the money in the first place), but I kind of wandered into mine. My finally year project was with the Particle Physics group, working on the vertex detector for the next linear collider. I spent a fair whack of time sitting getting a 'server room' tan running simulations in one of the labs, and spent a lot of time talking with various staff members. At Bristol they're doing a lot of work on the computing for CMS (one of the new detectors for the LHC at CERN), and I've just kind of ambled into doing a PhD in large scale data management here... I'm also aiming (and this has been successful in the past) to keep my finger in the Physics pie, learn a shed load more theory and do some 'real' physics too.

So, it can either be a pro-active thing, or a thing you amble in to. There are some people who start uni knowing they want to do a PhD (whether they still want to by the end of their undergrad course is a different matter), and then there's everyone else...

 

[marlon]

So what exactly do you need to get a phd when it comes to your "qualities".

One Nature publication

marlon

 

[gravenewworld]

You shouldn't ever have to pay for a degree past a bachelor's. The majority of decent schools give stipends to their graduate students and tuition is free. My financial advisor even said that if you get accepted to graduate school and tuition is not free, then that univerisity is basically saying "don't come here" or "you are not really accepted."

 

[ktpr2]

Is there a general consenus on what gravenwworld says?

 

[James Jackson]

In the UK, the usual route is that departments / research groups apply to the various funding bodies (PPARC, EPSERC, CCLRC etc) for a certain number of postgraduate studentships. When these are rewarded to the group they then advertise to fill them - depending on the area / group / department / supervisor they can be very hotly contested.

Mine is slightly backwards in that I got offered the placement on the condition we find funding (either that or I pay for it, which isn't happening). As I'll be on a CASE studentship, I've had to find an industry sponser, get them to agree, then apply to the main funding body. We're just waiting for all the paperwork now...

So, if you're good enough you'll get a place! It's just like a job interview process, really...

 

[so-crates]

Is there a general consenus on what gravenwworld says?

For PhD programs in science/engineering, yes. This happened to my sister-in-law after she passed her comps for her masters.

I believe just about everyone in humanities has to pay for their PhD, and people who just want to get a masters generally pay as well.

 

[bross7]

One Nature publication

marlon

Wow, that would be insane if that was the actual requirement. The number of PhD's would plummet.

 

[mathwonk]

it depends on demand. for instance most med school students wish to get out and start practice and hopefully earn a nice living, so there a big shortage of medical phd's. Thus anyone wanting the md/phd program generally can attend med schhol tuition free. if they only want an md to start practice, the tuition is in the many tens of thousands of dollars.

 

[mathwonk]

to get a phd in math you usually have to discover something, and then prove it. the discovery part takes a special skill not taught in school: how to guess intelligently and confidently enough to devote a huge amount of energy to verifying your guess.

for that you have to learn a more visceral way of seeing what is true in math than the dry methods taught in class and books. you have to begin to see that there is a coherent pattern to math and that things that should be true are likely true in fact.

so once you get that sense of what should be true you are ready to guess. then you need a huge amount of technical skill strength and stamina to verify your guess.

i.e. there are a lot of clever people out there, if your guess is so natural, someone may have thought of it before and tried to check it.

thus it helps to be on top of the latest tools, or have an advisor who is, so that there is more likelihood that you are applying methods to the problem that did not exist when the last guesser tried it unsuccessfully.


so be abreast of the new breakthroughs if you can, and look for ways to apply them, while they are still fresh. new ground is much easier digging and the nuggets are nearer the top than old well plowed and furrowed land.

it does often help to revisit old problems with new techniques though.

and an insight can come from anywhere and anyone, and can simply be a point of view no one else had even though it was possible to have it.

the main thing is being able to guess with confidence the answer to a new problem, and then pursue it tenaciously.

if you have the love and the ability, the money is usually found to accommodate you at least minimally.