Gold Member
Yeah, but you don't have to do that kind of repair often on a fuel injection system, and its programmed for max performance. Its technically more advanced.
The point is that I can do it, and don't have to pay some shop-monkey $100/hr to do something that I could have done myself. "More advanced" does not equal "better". Go the the drag track sometime and see what the bikers are running. You might be surprised. Cyrus The point is that I can do it, and don't have to pay some shop-monkey$100/hr to do something that I could have done myself. "More advanced" does not equal "better". Go the the drag track sometime and see what the bikers are running. You might be surprised.

Id like to know how often one has to do anything to their fuel injection, compared to you having to fiddle with your carbs. I am willing to bet you can leave the fuel inejection system alone for years.

Your friend could do a wheelie in any gear, but could he go to 140mph while doing a wheelie, and changing gears, in only the first two gears?

Yikes that's fast!

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Gold Member
Id like to know how often one has to do anything to their fuel injection, compared to you having to fiddle with your carbs. I am willing to bet you can leave the fuel inejection system alone for years.
I own a FI Softail, and I bought a Power Commander programmable fuel/ignition controller so that I wouldn't have to pay the Harley stealers $100 plus shop rates to re-program my stock controller every time I changed air filters, exhaust, etc, or wanted to re-map my bike's performance for better low-end torque, better two-up fuel-efficiency, etc, etc. Dealing with those guys is a crap-shoot, and if they make the wrong call call, you pay again to make them fix their screw-ups. Good for the stealerships, and bad for the riders. Cyrus I own a FI Softail, and I bought a Power Commander programmable fuel/ignition controller so that I wouldn't have to pay the Harley stealers$100 plus shop rates to re-program my stock controller every time I changed air filters, exhaust, etc, or wanted to re-map my bike's performance for better low-end torque, better two-up fuel-efficiency, etc, etc. Dealing with those guys is a crap-shoot, and if they make the wrong call call, you pay again to make them fix their screw-ups. Good for the stealerships, and bad for the riders.

Do you have to reprogram the fuel injection system every time you change an air filter? That seems odd to me. I don't see why you would have to do that. Also, how often do you have to mess with tuning your carbs? Every time my friend tried to start his carb sports bike in the cold it was a pain in the ass. Fuel injection, just turn the switch on and it starts.

Gold Member
Do you have to reprogram the fuel injection system every time you change an air filter? That seems odd to me. I don't see why you would have to do that. Also, how often do you have to mess with tuning your carbs? Every time my friend tried to start his carb sports bike in the cold it was a pain in the ass. Fuel injection, just turn the switch on and it starts.
No. You only have to change the performance map if you make drastic changes in air-filter permeability, exhaust back-pressure and anti-reversion properties, etc. Little changes do not require reprogramming, but if you decide to change big stuff, you should be prepared to re-map. Then, I do not trust the maps, but do high-temp, high-speed runs near places where I can do an ignition shut-off and coast into a truck stop to inspect the plugs. The plugs should be a light gray or light brownish-gray. If they are dark - the map is too rich, and if the plugs are white, the map is too lean. I have done this for many years with carbs, and computerized FI just adds an extra (to me) level of complexity.

Cyrus
No. You only have to change the performance map if you make drastic changes in air-filter permeability, exhaust back-pressure and anti-reversion properties, etc. Little changes do not require reprogramming, but if you decide to change big stuff, you should be prepared to re-map. Then, I do not trust the maps, but do high-temp, high-speed runs near places where I can do an ignition shut-off and coast into a truck stop to inspect the plugs. The plugs should be a light gray or light brownish-gray. If they are dark - the map is too rich, and if the plugs are white, the map is too lean. I have done this for many years with carbs, and computerized FI just adds an extra (to me) level of complexity.

But how often do you have to 'fiddle' with the carbs. I am not talking about major changes like a new exhaust. I am talking about regular usage.

Gold Member
But how often do you have to 'fiddle' with the carbs. I am not talking about major changes like a new exhaust. I am talking about regular usage.
When I owned normally-aspirated Harleys with carbs, I tore them down, rejetted, and modded them infrequently, but often did so to see "what if". My '86 Wide Glide had an S&S Super E racing carb, and though the bike had a fairly steep cam and head-work by Dave Perewitz (maybe the best builder in the US) it was doggy at low RPMs. I figured out that this was due to the very large throat of the carb and the resultant low air-velocity/atomization of fuel from the venturi when this butterfly-type carb was running at moderate outputs. The solution was to install a Doug Yost "Power-Tube" pre-atomiser to turn the fuel into a fine mist even at low air-flows. The gain in low-range torque was incredible, and the two-up touring mileage went from under 45 mpg to a solid 50 mpg at the same time. I can tune a carbureted bike instinctively with little effort. Electronic fuel/air/ignition control ties my hands.

merlinsbyte
Well something has changed in wonderland alice, the new harleys are fast! the new buell is 145 hp at the crank the v rod is fast and have won most of the Pro Stock drag races they enter. Even the big twins are faster than they usta' been with the displacement at around 96 cubes.

It seems to me that you have another problem. If you want a ricer go for it, they are still the fastest stock machines and cheap. I would tell you to say with harley buy a V rod and if cost is no object install a supercharger with modest boost. The HP will be in the 170-220 range., If you want more a nitrous kit will give you 280 hp with the touch of a button (with supercharger).

I am 53 years old and have a supercharged V Rod with some other work done on it (heads and cams with a better intercooler). It produced 266 hp on the flo max dyno . Yes it was ungodly expensive, but you will never be able to get a better feeling than pulling up to a rice rocket at 160 mph then dropping the hammer (not too hard it will pick the front wheel up at 120 mph easily).

Yeah that is worth every penny.

; }>

ps the rice guys still rule the twisties , hey I am 53 and I want to see 54 , additionally the rice guys can also put a supercharger (they favor turbos) and I have seen a 550 hp Busa in Daytona hp shoot out! But there comes a point (for me it came with doing a wheelie easily at 120 mph or frying the tire through the entire quarter mile) that the HP becomes unusable...

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W3pcq
I'd like to get a bike like that, but if I did, I wouldn't even ride it except for on the track. One ticket a 120, and you get into big trouble, at least here in the states you do. I've got a couple friends who take their bikes to track, one has a CBR100, one has an R1, another has a GSX1000. You go to the track on "track days", and pay x amount of money. They will have a suspension expert go over your bike, and adjust it to your height/weight. Then you go out an tear it up. It gets expensive over time, but definitely worth it.

I've got a duel sport, max speed 95 mph, does wheelies in 2nd gear at 20 miles per hour. Not going to go to track on it as it stands. They do have a super moto class though, I could throw some 17's on it and get out there. The dual sport version of my bike comes with a mikuni carb, compared to the dirt model with the Klein carb, which let's you run lower octane gas, the other carb runs higher octane gas. The other model has a different cam as well. If I changed my cam, changed my carb, maybe did a big bore kt 440 kit, my bike would be more competitive.

Gold Member
I'd like to get a bike like that, but if I did, I wouldn't even ride it except for on the track. One ticket a 120, and you get into big trouble, at least here in the states you do.
That's a big factor in my choice. I am pretty throttle-happy and a couple of >20mph moving violations could make insurance very pricey. I also want to keep the cost/resale value reasonable. Owning a Harley in Maine can be pricey because when you go the the town office to register, they look up the current value in a price guide and you have to pay excise tax based on that value. Japanese bikes devalue very quickly, but Harleys do not. I bought my first new Harley (a Fat-Bob) in 1985 for $6500 and I sold it in 1995 for$8500. Boomers started thinking Harleys were cool in the late '80s, and H-D couldn't keep up with the demand, so prices soared. I didn't mind the excise tax so much in those days, because I was easily logging 7-8K mi/year, but now many of my riding buddies are either sick, too busy, or less-interested and I'm riding alone when I ride. That's why I'm considering dual-sports, too, because I love to fish and there are lots of dirt/gravel roads through timber-lands that lead to nice streams and ponds.

W3pcq
An interesting bike, which is not street legal, but very unique in its abilities is the Rokon. The wheels are hollow and can be filled with water, or gas, or left empty so you can float it across bodies of water. It is 2 wheel drive and weighs 208lbs.

http://www.rokon.com/products/trailbrkr.htm [Broken]

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esbo
My brother who is very into bikes has something like this:-

http://www.rallye-tenere.net/Stamb_TTR-600.htm

Not sure exactly which model it is, but they are not very common, I think his is single cylinder though.
(not sure if that one is)

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B. Elliott
I'm sorry, I have to

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Gold Member
I'm sorry, I have to

I can understand what he's going through. :rofl:

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iirevolverii
R1...

scorpa
Turbo in the gas prices thread you said you were going to possibly buy a Buell Blast. Those things are so tiny! They are for really small beginner riders, even I feel horrendously cramped on them ( I do have rather long legs for my height though [5'8]). They aren't really a dual sporter either. I don't know how happy you will be with that bike in the long run.

Gold Member
The reason that I'm looking up the Blast is that it is light and cheap and very fuel-efficient, and since they are cheap, I won't mind taking one on gravel roads. I am 5'6" with a 30" inseam (short legs) so I don't feel too cramped on a Blast with a regular-height seat. I haven't ridden one yet (just browsing the showrooms), but a road-test is going to be the next step. If it feels too small, I may go back to the dual-sport idea. I stopped in at my friendly local KTM dealer to see what he had for trade-ins, and I got pretty excited when I saw a Ducati Monster. No dice - it was one he had sold when he was a Ducati dealer and the owner had brought it into be repaired. :-(

scorpa
I'm currently in love with the Ducati Monster! I think that is a neat bike, I like the naked bikes much more than a full on sportbike. To bad it wasn't for sale.

Gold Member
I'm currently in love with the Ducati Monster! I think that is a neat bike, I like the naked bikes much more than a full on sportbike. To bad it wasn't for sale.
Oh, yeah! Rod offered me some great deals on his line-up of Monsters when he was giving up his dealership. I stuck with the Harley line, though now most of my day-tripping buddies are out of commission, I wish I'd bought the 750 Monster instead. Tons of power in a nice package - and yes, it did look a whole lot sexier than the Japanese sport bikes with their plastic shells. I'd consider a used Monster, but the nearest dealer now is at the south end of the state, and Rod told me that he just doesn't want to work on them any more. He's got his line of KTMs and an RV business that keeps him hopping, and he doesn't have the time to take on more work.

Gold Member
Dearly Missed
I'm currently in love with the Ducati Monster! I think that is a neat bike, I like the naked bikes much more than a full on sportbike. To bad it wasn't for sale.
If i were not in love with old Britbikes the Dukes would be my next choise.

Homework Helper
Funny I was just looking at a Blast last week and thinking that would make a nice commuter, especially since the freeways here are 55mph anyway.

ps. Loved the U-Tube video, I used to have a BMW F650. A single cylinder 650cc BMW! Useful if you ever need to pull a Land Rover out of the mud.

Gold Member
Funny I was just looking at a Blast last week and thinking that would make a nice commuter, especially since the freeways here are 55mph anyway.

ps. Loved the U-Tube video, I used to have a BMW F650. A single cylinder 650cc BMW! Useful if you ever need to pull a Land Rover out of the mud.
With 69 mpg at highway speeds, the Blast is a really inexpensive ride. I just filled up my truck today and paid $3.619/gal for regular. There are some great trout waters in the state, but the price of gas keeps me conservative. A Blast could change that. My Softail gets almost 50 mpg but I can't bring myself to take it on gravel roads and chip the paint. It still looks new after 3 years. I wouldn't mind dirtying up a Blast. Science Advisor Homework Helper With 69 mpg at highway speeds, the Blast is a really inexpensive ride. 1.30/Litre here and I'm looking at a new job with an hour in nose-tail traffic in the morning. So something small that could filter down the inside and you don't mind losing the odd mirror on looks good. Only problem is going into the Harley Dealership, I'm not a 50 something lawyer/dentist - will they still let me in :tongue: Gold Member 1.30/Litre here and I'm looking at a new job with an hour in nose-tail traffic in the morning. So something small that could filter down the inside and you don't mind losing the odd mirror on looks good. Only problem is going into the Harley Dealership, I'm not a 50 something lawyer/dentist - will they still let me in :tongue: They let ANYBODY in, though most of the old family-owned dealerships in the state are gone - eaten up by chains. When I wanted to buy a Softail, I called the nearest dealership and asked if they had a basic fuel-injected Softail with no extras, and they said yes, so I drove an hour to look it over and they had pulled the old bait-and-switch. The plainest Softail they had was sporting pearl paint, smooth-rimmed wheels and a security system. Even worse, they refused to come down on the price after I pointed out the bait-and-switch and ID'd the salesman who had lied to me. I called them some bad names, whipped out my cell-phone and called a more distant (and still family-owned) HD dealership, and asked if they had a base-model Softail with EFI in stock. They said "yes" and I said "put a hold tag on it - I'm coming down". I smiled "nicely" at the liars as I left their store. I got to the family-owned place, looked at "my" bike, negotiated with one of the owners and got another$600 off the price, and paid for it with a personal check. They never asked to see my ID. I have never been in their shop before, and I was wearing old jeans with oil-stains, a T-shirt, and some old running shoes. Those old guys knew the difference between a poser and the real deal. (Especially when I tried to persuade them to sell me one of the old flat-track bikes on display from their private collection.) They retired the next year and sold their dealership to the big chain that owns the liar's store. Bah!

Homework Helper
You could consider a Honda Helix or something similar. You can get a used one reasonably cheap, and they get decent mileage (in the 60's).

scorpa
Hey Turbo, just looking for an update. Are you any closer to making a decision on what you want? Any luck selling your harley?

Gold Member
Hi, Scorpa. The banks around here are VERY gun-shy about bike loans, so I have gotten deluged with offers of 3/4 of what the bike is worth at retail (disregarding the low miles and lots of extras). I'll buy a cheap ride and garage this machine if needed until the credit market in the US pulls its head out of it's @.