What would Jesus pack?

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  • #2
Al68
You couldn't make this stuff up.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-mi...bed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=9575794

Ok, so "In and Out" burger putting chapter and verse on the wrapper I can handle, loaves+fishes -> burger+fries, But biblical references on assault rifles ?????
Personally, I'd prefer the rifles we use in Iraq to have Koran references on them. Just to reflect that we are on the side of the peaceful majority of Muslims worldwide.

Seriously, if this is "the best example of violation of the separation of church and state in this country", I'd say we have pretty darned good separation. Of course now our servicemen will probable be required to file off the references or replace their sights. Oh, wait, that would just be another first amendment violation! :eek:

Now we're in a super catch 22, huh?
 
  • #3
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A dumbass was trying to be ironic. Human stupidity happens. Fine them and switch provider companies. Case closed.
 
  • #4
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Personally, I'd prefer the rifles we use in Iraq to have Koran references on them. Just to reflect that we are on the side of the peaceful majority of Muslims worldwide.

Seriously, if this is "the best example of violation of the separation of church and state in this country", I'd say we have pretty darned good separation. Of course now our servicemen will probable be required to file off the references or replace their sights. Oh, wait, that would just be another first amendment violation! :eek:

Now we're in a super catch 22, huh?

yeah, it's ironic. they've taken something very obscure, and highlighted it. and if they now go and spend a bunch of money to remove it all, then a bunch of the soldiers will simply respond by replacing it with something less obscure.
 
  • #5
drankin
Wow, that's pretty damn cool! I never knew that about Trijicon.

I just checked the night sights on my pistol, no inscriptions.:mad:
 
  • #6
OmCheeto
Gold Member
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You couldn't make this stuff up.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-mi...bed-secret-jesus-bible-codes/story?id=9575794

Ok, so "In and Out" burger putting chapter and verse on the wrapper I can handle, loaves+fishes -> burger+fries, But biblical references on assault rifles ?????

They said2P3:16they were there all the time! I don't know why people are gettingin a huff about it now. Q33:7

But yah, bible references on rifles is about as weird as going to war in the name of jn11:35god.
 
  • #8
Borg
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Maybe he's a republican.

propaganda-republican-jesus-m16-war-demotivational-poster-1205029749.jpg
 
  • #9
mgb_phys
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Leaving aside the appropriateness of using rifles with bible verses on in a crusade.

It said the owner did it because he was a committed christian. It's been a few years since school, I was never a big fan of the nuns - but I don't seem to remember that Jesus' central message was "kill or be killed".

Logically (!) wouldn't this upset the christians back home more than the muslims abroad?
 
  • #10
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Leaving aside the appropriateness of using rifles with bible verses on in a crusade.

It said the owner did it because he was a committed christian. It's been a few years since school, I was never a big fan of the nuns - but I don't seem to remember that Jesus' central message was "kill or be killed".

Logically (!) wouldn't this upset the christians back home more than the muslims abroad?

it's not obvious that Jesus taught pacifism, either. one of his disciples was carrying a sword and cut a guy's ear off. "turn the other cheek" is often misunderstood as pacifism, as well, but it's really about standing up to people.
 
  • #11
CRGreathouse
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it's not obvious that Jesus taught pacifism, either. one of his disciples was carrying a sword and cut a guy's ear off.

...and then he told him to put down the sword. That's kind of an important part you left off.
 
  • #12
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They should absolutely have their contract yanked. This is not only a clear breach, but jeapordizes the army's mission in the Middle East.

It's hard enough to convince people that this is not a holy war, without putting bible references on our weapons.
 
  • #13
drankin
Leaving aside the appropriateness of using rifles with bible verses on in a crusade.

It said the owner did it because he was a committed christian. It's been a few years since school, I was never a big fan of the nuns - but I don't seem to remember that Jesus' central message was "kill or be killed".

Logically (!) wouldn't this upset the christians back home more than the muslims abroad?

I think you are reading more into it than there is. It's not about Christians and killing so much as it is about a business owner and a gun sight product.

If the subject of the thread is to discuss being a Christian and carrying guns then I would remind you that there were Roman soldiers that followed Jesus teachings while He was alive back in the day. Some of the disciples carried swords.

There is no dichotomy there. Just the modern stereotype of what a Christian should be (that both Christians and nonChristians have) and what Jesus was really all about (which we are not going to talk about).
 
  • #14
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...and then he told him to put down the sword. That's kind of an important part you left off.

i don't want to debate religion with you, but i think it is significant that they were carrying swords right up until the end.

also, the Church of Rome was a government that ruled with military force for much of the last 2000 years.
 
  • #15
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I think you are reading more into it than there is. It's not about Christians and killing so much as it is about a business owner and a gun sight product.

pretty much. if the guy had sold can openers, they would have the same markings.
 
  • #16
drankin
They should absolutely have their contract yanked. This is not only a clear breach, but jeapordizes the army's mission in the Middle East.

It's hard enough to convince people that this is not a holy war, without putting bible references on our weapons.

Contract wise, I'm not sure they can legally cancel it based on this. The product has always had these inscriptions. But, they will probably have to change the product in order to renew the contract.

And how would this jeapordize the Army's mission exactly? I think this is being blown a little out of proportions by political correctness.
 
  • #17
Well...on one hand I think it would be quite a waste of the government's money to replace all the scopes with non-inscribed ones. On the other, I find the integration of religion into any part of the government to be unacceptable and should be punished as to avoid making a similar error again. The military rules clearly state that religious propaganda was unwanted for the war which the scopes were required for. After all, this was a 660 million contract, I am sure the government does not just blindly hand over the money to these people, without giving them a full list of military rules and regulations they have to follow. The owner may have been a christian before his "good lord' made him die in a crash, but that does NOT give the right to future people who run this company to break the laws and instructions they are given. And they clearly know it was wrong to do, otherwise they wouldn't have tried to hide it by masking it as some kind of serial number. To me, the company responsible needs to be punished with legal action for breach of important rules specified in their contracts (I gotta say, even without seeing the contract, i am 99.9% sure one of the requirements is that there should be no personalization of the weapon parts done by the company, least of all with christian verses), the government should sue for their money back and use the money to replace all the scopes and stop Jeebus from targeting people abroad.
 
  • #18
drankin
Well...on one hand I think it would be quite a waste of the government's money to replace all the scopes with non-inscribed ones. On the other, I find the integration of religion into any part of the government to be unacceptable and should be punished as to avoid making a similar error again. The military rules clearly state that religious propaganda was unwanted for the war which the scopes were required for. After all, this was a 660 million contract, I am sure the government does not just blindly hand over the money to these people, without giving them a full list of military rules and regulations they have to follow. The owner may have been a christian before his "good lord' made him die in a crash, but that does NOT give the right to future people who run this company to break the laws and instructions they are given. And they clearly know it was wrong to do, otherwise they wouldn't have tried to hide it by masking it as some kind of serial number. To me, the company responsible needs to be punished with legal action for breach of important rules specified in their contracts (I gotta say, even without seeing the contract, i am 99.9% sure one of the requirements is that there should be no personalization of the weapon parts done by the company, least of all with christian verses), the government should sue for their money back and use the money to replace all the scopes and stop Jeebus from targeting people abroad.

Wow! PUNISH THEM! Such outrage. LOL!
 
  • #19
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...and then he told him to put down the sword. That's kind of an important part you left off.

.......and said pick up an M-16! :tongue2:

But seriously though, printing biblical stuff on guns for the US military, umm pretty sure thats not constitutional.
 
  • #20
DavidSnider
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This is silly. This is not proselytizing, it's just an 'easter egg' placed on one of the products they manufacture. Replacing them for this reason alone is a total waste of money.
 
  • #21
kyleb
"turn the other cheek" is often misunderstood as pacifism, as well, but it's really about standing up to people.
How do you square that with the "http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 5:39&version=KJV"?

i don't want to debate religion with you, but i think it is significant that they were carrying swords right up until the end.
But in a strictly academic sense, is there actually anything in the texts to support your claim that "it's not obvious that Jesus taught pacifism", which stands in contradiction to the verses I quoted above?

also, the Church of Rome was a government that ruled with military force for much of the last 2000 years.
Sure, they even murdered people for attempting to make the Bible more accessible to the masses though translating it into modern languages. But that was the actions of the Church rather than any teachings of Jesus.

And how would this jeapordize the Army's mission exactly? I think this is being blown a little out of proportions by political correctness.
Proselytizing at the point of a gun seems contradictory to the "winning the hearts and minds" strategy to me, and the Biblical citations on scopes is only one example in http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488". Seems to me we should send the scopes back the manufacture to have the markings removed, and bring the troops home as soon as possible too, starting the ones who think they are on a crusade.
 
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  • #22
drankin
Proselytizing at the point of a gun seems contradictory to the "winning the hearts and minds" strategy to me, and the Biblical citations on scopes is only one example in http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/05/0082488". Seems to me we should send the scopes back the manufacture to have the markings removed, and bring the troops home as soon as possible too, starting the ones who think they are on a crusade.

Emotional nonsense. "Private, are you on a crusade?", "CRUSADE SIR, YES SIR", "you're going home!", "HOME SIR, YES SIR". LOL This is good stuff.
 
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  • #23
kyleb
Engraving Biblical citations on rifle scopes, scrawling "Jesus killed Muhammad" on an APC, and engaging in theological based call and response drills is emotional nonsense, as is your ridiculous defense of such. Am I to take your psychological projection to suggest you share in that crusader mentality?
 
  • #24
drankin
Engraving Biblical citations on rifle scopes, scrawling "Jesus killed Muhammad" on an APC, and engaging in theological based call and response drills is emotional nonsense, as is your ridiculous defense of such. Am I to take your psychological projection to suggest you share in that crusader mentality?

You are ranting. BTW, what is a crusader mentality anyway?
 
  • #25
Ivan Seeking
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Contract wise, I'm not sure they can legally cancel it based on this. The product has always had these inscriptions. But, they will probably have to change the product in order to renew the contract.

And how would this jeapordize the Army's mission exactly? I think this is being blown a little out of proportions by political correctness.

U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

You sit here and deny the problem, while a member from the ME is, in your words, ranting. How do you defend that position? It is, after all, a problem of perception in the first place. What you call politcal correctness, I call, "not being stupid".

Referencing Bible verses is certainly proselytizing. It seems pretty clear that the military was unaware of the problem when they signed the contract.

I am paying for those weapons just like every other taxpayer. Even as person who was raised as a Christian [when push comes to shove I still consider myself a Christian], I am insulted and shocked by this. I am not paying taxes in order to provide free advertising for religious fanatics.
 
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