What is the Ultimate Meaninglessness of Life?

[bchmtnedisto]

you're probably trying to describe ether,or dark matter.however to this point e=mc2 has been proven correct.
doesn't matter really whether you believe it or not.it just hasn't been proven wrong.

 

[artrocket]

you're probably trying to describe ether,or dark matter.however to this point e=mc2 has been proven correct.
doesn't matter really whether you believe it or not.it just hasn't been proven wrong.

I have another postulation for this; let's just say another of my rocket philosophy:

"Since matter cannot exceed lightspeed, it duplicates instead when subjected beyond it."

I wonder if the recent physics books have already tackled up to this point. but in case it is yet to, just remember me . I view physics visually.

up to this point, I guess believing may contribute to the edge of physics (this is not subjective approach, but rather relative to speed of light). Consciousness after all, is faster than light. I guess that's the essence of what faith is all about. one cannot be wrong if he did not claim to monopolize right, which is the error of some religions, especially the violent ones. the edge of physics will be philosophy.

 

[selfAdjoint]

I have another postulation for this; let's just say another of my rocket philosophy:

"Since matter cannot exceed lightspeed, it duplicates instead when subjected beyond it."

I wonder if the recent physics books have already tackled up to this point. but in case it is yet to, just remember me . I view physics visually.

up to this point, I guess believing may contribute to the edge of physics (this is not subjective approach, but rather relative to speed of light). Consciousness after all, is faster than light. I guess that's the essence of what faith is all about. one cannot be wrong if he did not claim to monopolize right, which is the error of some religions, especially the violent ones. the edge of physics will be philosophy.

The behavior of matter moving faster than light is clearly described by relativity. For starters it has "imaginary" mass (as in square root of =1). There is no sign of duplication. You may view physics visually but that doesn't mean your physics has anything to do with either genuine physics or reality.

 

[artrocket]

The behavior of matter moving faster than light is clearly described by relativity. For starters it has "imaginary" mass (as in square root of =1). There is no sign of duplication. You may view physics visually but that doesn't mean your physics has anything to do with either genuine physics or reality.

but the propnent, Einstein said that it's "impossible" to exceed lightspeed. what did he describe then when matter moves faster than light, other than any object would transform into disc-shaped when it approaches near lightspeed? if there's no sign of duplication, your present devices may yet need to be upgraded. there's still a lot to be done for us Earthlings to reach the technology of interstellar travel. the statement "your physics" seems a mistaken notion that the views I'm saying are subjective, which aren't. however do not limit my reality with yours, I prefer to perceive beyond that.

 

[bchmtnedisto]

but you forgot about worm holes and black holes.in theory it is possible to to span time by worm holes without exceeding the speed of light.

we're a tad off subject debatibly,but when one considers the vastness and enormity of our universe,maybe we are fully on subject.
so let's get back to alex's question."Why am i here?"
alex don't you see how as simple as we are compared to the vastness of our universe we're still an integral part of it.
when one of us dies, another is born.When a storm rages across the globe elsewhere a couple holds hands watching a beautiful sunset.
As one of us feels a heartache from a failed relationship another is feeling the unexplainable warmth and awkwardness of their first love,first kiss.
one ocean rises,while another recedes.one house is torn down while yet another is built.so you see alex it is all relative.we as humans and everything that isn't human is intertwined.

Have you ever stopped you car to help a turtle cross the road?
have you ever stopped your car to help a wounded bird?
Have you ever smiled at a lonely woman, and felt in your heart that's exactly what she needed?
Have you ever offered a stranger crying a shoulder to cry on or an ear to to listen?
Have you ever just let a spider keep it's web in the corner of your garage just because.
Have you ever been in love and felt the mystical feeling from your head to your toes?
Have you ever fathered a Child and felt the Heavenly feeling of becoming at one with the world and yourself.
Have you ever experienced the heroic act of saving another human being not knowing who or what took over your life to perform the miraculous task?
Have you ever prayed to God through Jesus and felt their presence as you prayed?

you see, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.We're all made up of matter.and in the scheme of this vast network alex you matter.
Why are you hear?because we need you.we need you for this intricate balance.
Try this the next time you feel unimortant.Go to any lake or pond ,or lagoon after dark and notice how every light in every direction beside and beyond is reflecting and shining straight at you.note that you're in the spotlight.No matter which way you move the lights shine straight at you.
The "whole world is your stage alex" just kick back and enjoy the ride.

 

[artrocket]

but you forgot about worm holes and black holes.in theory it is possible to to span time by worm holes without exceeding the speed of light.
we're a tad off subject debatibly,but when one considers the vastness and enormity of our universe,maybe we are fully on subject.

yes, I should have said interdimensional travel rather than interstellar travel, but that would be very advanced indeed.

I would have said the proper perspective is subjectively approach, rather than subjectively define.

 

[Skhandelwal]

I believe that time is the only scaler. We are only here is by some accident, biolgically, we were created and we will destroyed. Energy can never be destroyed nor can it ever be created so we will die but our souls we live on. I choose to believe in soul b/c w/o soul, all we are effect of my genes and my surrounding. But soul gives us conciousness. Now, if there are souls, there has to be a power that controls it. Some people call it karma(action=reaction) some people call it time(only true scaler in the world) but really you are looking at one thing from different perspective. No matter how hard you try, you are nothing more than a bacteria developing on the fungus, when the guys will come to clean it, you will wiped out. This universe is infinitie is dimensions and subatomically as in we are inside a universe and a universe is inside us.

Here is how I like to think of it which makes me feel important. speed of light is undefined. Speed of light is infinity in terms of velocity. Therefore, infinity is undefined. We are a coordinate in the graph which coinsist of unlimited axises and spreads in all direction but remember, a point on the graph is undefined too!

Our creativity has no limit. We were never created not will we ever be destroyed. We have problem w/ understanding infinity b/c we only like to think that we stay forever things around us decay. It makes us feel superior. But for us to be immortal, our surrounding has to be. So as odd as it seems, this world has unlimited history. Some people like to think of it as cycle.(I do) And this is what hinduism is all about. UNderstanding that you are the universe. Neither bigger nor smaller. If you become your counciousness, creativity, you become the universe. You can do anything. YOu might think of this as myth but I have seen some strong evidence on black magic. Oh yes, truth is stranger than fiction. Just because something is proven doesn't mean it doesn't exist

What is the purpose of life? To gain salvation

Now the question I am struggling w/ is that why are we in this cycle? We come here, gain salvation, then come here again.

Note: salvation is different than heaven, salvation is when you get out of the reincarnation cycle. However, later on, you are put back in.

I guess I got you more confused, sorry, but had to share what I know. I have learned this from experience that when you have faith, it gives you power when you lonely, confidence when you have lost, hope when you have given up. A person w/ faith is much stronger than the person w/o it. Look at history, all the great men were religious, and they still are. Einstein himself wrote more papers about religion then philosophy and science combined! You should read Rene Descartes book, he really gives an outlook on that. When you know that you ahve company w/ you all the time. When you know that somebody is watching you all the time, it makes you do good deeds. It gives you power to stand up in your weakest times. I chose hinduism b/c it made most sense to me and all the religions came out of it. It is the oldest religion. That region is also the place where our civilization has started. Sure it is the most complicated one too but hey, so is physics!

Good luck on your tour to answers, if you find one, email me at skhandelwal@gmail.com

 

[fizzwater]

The point is novelty & adventure. If you can't find either, it's because you really don't want to.

 

[Skhandelwal]

I just finished reading Gita, I am going to explain it in hindiusm terms. THe point of life is first to grow out of desire, selfishness. B/c after that, you can be discipline and focus on your goals.(do longterm happiness instead of shortterm) Then the goal is to grow our of failure, honor, fame, etc. This is very hard to achieve, atheletes who become world champion achieve it, presidents sometime achieve it. Basically, you really have to acieve the best for it to be not a big deal for you. After you have grown out of pain, pleasure, happiness, ambition, etc. Then you can meditate and achieve eternal bliss. And the purpose of that is connect with each other. B/c in reality, all of us are just part of him, not sons and daughter, but a part of him. Not a small or big, but as big of a part as he is himself. As I explained before, we are just infinity as he is, so there is no big and small, and after meditating, you realize it.

Btw, it also said that at the very beginning, anger, greed, and lust stops us from pure consious reasoning, so if you can control those aspects of life(not just physically but mentally) Then you will see everything clearly. I do :-).

 

[DannyC]

but you forgot about worm holes and black holes.in theory it is possible to to span time by worm holes without exceeding the speed of light.

we're a tad off subject debatibly,but when one considers the vastness and enormity of our universe,maybe we are fully on subject.
so let's get back to alex's question."Why am i here?"
alex don't you see how as simple as we are compared to the vastness of our universe we're still an integral part of it.
when one of us dies, another is born.When a storm rages across the globe elsewhere a couple holds hands watching a beautiful sunset.
As one of us feels a heartache from a failed relationship another is feeling the unexplainable warmth and awkwardness of their first love,first kiss.
one ocean rises,while another recedes.one house is torn down while yet another is built.so you see alex it is all relative.we as humans and everything that isn't human is intertwined.

Have you ever stopped you car to help a turtle cross the road?
have you ever stopped your car to help a wounded bird?
Have you ever smiled at a lonely woman, and felt in your heart that's exactly what she needed?
Have you ever offered a stranger crying a shoulder to cry on or an ear to to listen?
Have you ever just let a spider keep it's web in the corner of your garage just because.
Have you ever been in love and felt the mystical feeling from your head to your toes?
Have you ever fathered a Child and felt the Heavenly feeling of becoming at one with the world and yourself.
Have you ever experienced the heroic act of saving another human being not knowing who or what took over your life to perform the miraculous task?
Have you ever prayed to God through Jesus and felt their presence as you prayed?

you see, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.We're all made up of matter.and in the scheme of this vast network alex you matter.
Why are you hear?because we need you.we need you for this intricate balance.
Try this the next time you feel unimortant.Go to any lake or pond ,or lagoon after dark and notice how every light in every direction beside and beyond is reflecting and shining straight at you.note that you're in the spotlight.No matter which way you move the lights shine straight at you.
The "whole world is your stage alex" just kick back and enjoy the ride.

I feel asif this post is a bit too emotional rather than logical or factual. The first 2 posts of this thread i totally agree with, 100% to a T. Maybe this is why I too also tend to fall in and out of a depressive state of mind, but this is only due to a leak in personality and character. You could be sat there thinking about what's life, why are we here etc. etc. then i could ring a friend up, get ready for a night out, get a beer down my neck, party like there's no tomorrow and meet a nice girl! I've done it before, i could do it every night, who's stopping me? Its about character, and using your character to follow facts, NOT beliefs, myths or 'could bes' but facts. You now have the internet, facts are available for every little thing that could exist on Earth or anywhere else in the universe. Use the internet to gain knowledge about these things, no pun intended but have you seen the guiness advert in the UK lately? "[MEDIA=youtube[/URL] THATS a good strong fact to go with.

Another point would be, isn't it a bit of a contradiction, that our children are allowed to learn about religion, with at the same time they learn science and maths? When clearly in my eyes, science/maths can prove exactly how/why/where/when we were put here, what were doing here?

 

[bchmtnedisto]

I feel asif this post is a bit too emotional rather than logical or factual. The first 2 posts of this thread i totally agree with, 100% to a T. Maybe this is why I too also tend to fall in and out of a depressive state of mind, but this is only due to a leak in personality and character. You could be sat there thinking about what's life, why are we here etc. etc. then i could ring a friend up, get ready for a night out, get a beer down my neck, party like there's no tomorrow and meet a nice girl! I've done it before, i could do it every night, who's stopping me? Its about character, and using your character to follow facts, NOT beliefs, myths or 'could bes' but facts. You now have the internet, facts are available for every little thing that could exist on Earth or anywhere else in the universe. Use the internet to gain knowledge about these things, no pun intended but have you seen the guiness advert in the UK lately? "[MEDIA=youtube[/URL] THATS a good strong fact to go with.

Another point would be, isn't it a bit of a contradiction, that our children are allowed to learn about religion, with at the same time they learn science and maths? When clearly in my eyes, science/maths can prove exactly how/why/where/when we were put here, what were doing here?[/QUOTE]


of course it's emotional, that's what philosophy is.

here reread the original post by alex:[QUOTE=alexsok]Hell i went from being depressed to being normal to being depressed, but one thing keeps bugging me... whatever i do, there is no answer to that question! So? Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Taoism, Hedonism, anything you offer, does it have an everlasting meaning?

We are born into an unfathomable existence, on a tiny patch of space called Earth that is itself a speck of dust in the galaxy that is a speck of dust in the infinite universe, and not only that, but during your entire lifetspan, you will die on an even smaller patch of space on THAT Earth.

Anyone else thinks human being are just limited and death is "unfair"? Religious people, what's the point of "Heaven", "Hell" or "Brahman" or any other mind-concoctions? That's the one thing I never really got. I don't want to be reincarnated or reunite with any Brahman, i don't want to live a blissful existence that is in itself meaningless (isn't it bound to get repetitive as well or the catch-22 is that i'll experience incessant eternal orgasms and ergo will not have time to consider the meaninglessness of it all?), I have no desire to commit to a life of hedonism here cause that is boring as well.

So... since life is an inexplicable mystery and a torture chamber, how cruel is that we are alive? The more I think of it, the more I realize that [b]religion does not bring meaning to life but rather, further consolidates the nihilistic meaninglessness of it all![/b], did it ever happen, that a guy hates Atheism as much as he hates Religion, but reaches that conclusion since in the face of one-sideness and daily monotony of life, there is nothing better to do?

In short terms, how is it possible for someone like me (don't know if there are any others) to live if two of the biggest alternatives in the world (Atheism, Theism and everything inbetween) are not satisfactory?

So if I don't belong to any category, then what's the point of waking up every morning? From that point on, it seems as suicide is the best way to cork out your brain, no responsibility, no depression, no aspirations, worries or anything else, isn't that the perfect drug?

How vain it all is. Every human category. Love, Sex, Art, etc etc. People getting fatter, people getting leaner, hunks & jocks vs pickup artists and the usual joes..., movies, learning... working... why? who asked that "something" to bring me and countless others who wondered about the same question to to that existence? Why did I have to be coaxed? [b]Why not just give it all to us at the outset, at least in that case the meaninglessness could be worth something until you're dead?[/b] Why does medicine exist, why do our bodies fail, why is there anything at all, and that magical "anything" created a world that is so far away from being "fun"? Am I ever going to get the answer to that or should I, as had been advised here countless times, "wizen up" and self-indulge in the mystery? but what would be the point of that?

Guys, do u understand what I'm trying to say here? Without any appeal to ignorance or pity, why is it that no matter how good you try to think the world is, how optimistic everything is and how purposeful the world is, how everything is going according to plan, how you're going to end up being successful, with a wonderful career and a great family, how "good" people are and how much happiness you wish everyone would be showered with - the thoughts you try to nail into your brain, [b]the mental masturbation of having to wake up everyday to the same "existence" seem like such an unenticing prospect? (no matter how well-of and high-rolling you are)[/b]

Is suicide really the only option here? Why are the suicide rates so high pretty much in every developed country (Russia, Japan, US, etc)if everyone else gets such an immense kick out of life?

p.s
oh and btw, depression has nothing to do with me writing this post right now. that has been my opinion for a long time, but I've desperately grappled with myself trying to conceal it. Can't do that anymore. [b]Could we please discuss this issue refraining from medical advices or any of the other trite banalities that I've already googled the net for?[/b] Philosophically speaking, what's the other emergency exists other than Religion or lack of it?:no:[/QUOTE]


you see, where's the logic in him beating himself up over the questions of humanity when "logic or Facts" won't answer the questions.In my opinion it's the logic that gets him and others in this frame of mind.
My attempt was to answer his question "why am i here" i still believe He's here because we need him.In this life of constant chaos and the emotional roller coaster ride that ensues, if humanity doesn't learn to love itself first, and sacrifice it's own happiness for the happiness of others then in our fast paced society you'll see the mindset of alex more and more.

Remember When excitement level goes up, logic goes out the window.

interpretation, the happier one is, the happier one becomes and won't have to use logic to determine one's place in society.

i wrote this when i was 15.i'll share it here.

life is full of ups and downs we long for the ups but dread the downs,
if we spent as much time enjoying the ups as we do dreading
and wallering in the downs,we'd spend more time up which would keep us from going down.
R.d.h

 

[nannoh]

What is the definition of "the point"? What does this mean?

Please define "the point" when used in the context "what's the point of life?"

 

[buddyholly9999]

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/point

Take your pick...

 

[DaveC426913]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067595/"

 

[DannyC]

of course it's emotional, that's what philosophy is.

Agreed, but I think they were looking for more facts in this thread

 

[nannoh]

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/point

Take your pick...

There was not much to pick from in this definition. The question would translate as "what is the sharpness of life" or "what is the purpose of life".

I am thinking that the question has to do with "what is the purpose of life" and, of course, life is its own purpose. The purpose of life is to be life, or "be alive".

The question is like asking "what is the purpose of air"?
Now, some people would say the purpose of air is to support life but that would be throroughly biocentric and egocentric of them.

It is obvious that the "point" of life is relative to the person living it.

One person's point or purpose will be to enjoy life and another's purpose will be to enjoy hating life. Neither will agree to the purpose of the other.

There is no one answer to this question. That's why philosophy is frustrating. There's no one answer to any of the questions in philosophy. That's why science has been able to get ahead of philosophy in some regards. But one will find that science can offer an infinite number of contradictory answers to the same question as well.

 

[bchmtnedisto]

Agreed, but I think they were looking for more facts in this thread

hmmmm.

based on my interpretation, he was wanting an answer for why is he emotionally up and down.especially when he digs deeper into the meaning of his/our existence.

facts are stubborn things.even more so in philosophy.were this a science post,or physics post i'd agree.however; this is a philosphical site so facts won't help here.
but i'll state this fact.at the point of this original thread the writer was alive and full of wonder.

to be a mentally healthy individual one should eat well,sleep well,love well, and sacrifice themselves for others.

 

[nannoh]

hmmmm.

based on my interpretation, he was wanting an answer for why is he emotionally up and down.especially when he digs deeper into the meaning of his/our existence.

Emotional ups and downs can be explained by physical science. Controlling emotional ups and downs can be achieved by a methodology of physical and information-based discipline and conditioning. It is finding a motive to employ these methods that may elude a person.

 

[bchmtnedisto]

hence the reason for this six page thread.

 

[selfAdjoint]

hence the reason for this six page thread.

Hint, hint.

 

[bchmtnedisto]

Hint, hint.

lol,
hey, it's a big question,lol:rofl:

 

[nannoh]

lol,
hey, it's a big question,lol:rofl:

Someone on this site hypothesised that the purpose of life was to eventually, through evolutionary process, provide a biological form of consciousness for the entire universe.
Mind you, we have yet to prove that there is life anywhere other than here on Earth.

 

[bchmtnedisto]

and so by that you mean it'll be an even longer post once we prove life elsewhere?lol

 

[nannoh]

and so by that you mean it'll be an even longer post once we prove life elsewhere?lol

Hasn't the Mars expedition found some kind of primal life form or fossils yet?

NASA is probably suppressing most of that info in order to save space on the PhysicsForum site..

 

[alexsok]

Guys, I really appreciate your input but I'm still completely loyal to my first post, and since I've just woken up, i'd say that I'm not emotional nor logical right now, I am "neutral" :)

Even if each of us would be god, capable of creating their own universes, replete with an endless amount of stars and space stretching into infinity (would anyone actually do that? :yuck: ) and populate every planet with trillions upon trillions of people (obviously your star-creation capabilities would be absolutely limitless hehe) and then, per one's desire, be able to embed himself in every person and live his life for eons to come, would any of you guys do that? Would that have a meaning?

What I'm trying to say is that as long as we remain humans, the question of meaning will always be relevant, to some more (ahem *me* ahem) to others less (and which one is better is for anyone to decide for him/herself).

I see no way out of this vicious cycle guys other than say "screw with everything and enjoy life" cause I'm so damn positive that in a million years, unless we undergo a complete overhaul that would selectively block-out certain neurons that trigger the "meaning" question, the question will indeed remain relevant even then.

Hell even if the latest scenario unfolds, would anything change? I'm a still a microscopical speck and whatever I think has absolutely zero impact on anything but me...

 

[DannyC]

And with that said... Amen!

Great post and to what should be imo a good end to a good thread.

 

[fedorfan]

I wish I wasnt able to ask this question anymore because it just brings more unanswerable questions, like what is the point of the universe, and what is the point of the universe being so big? I believe the universe`s size and itself doesn't have a point because the big bang would have to ask the question and answer it because it created the universe. Then you may ask what is the point of the big bang, whatever created the big bang would have to ask itself that and I believe none of those things have consciousness so the question doesn't really matter. In the end, we are all microscopic specks in an endless place that has no purpose and that we won't ever be able to fully understand. Philosophically, I think math is just squiggly lines on paper that don't really tell us anything except what stuff is doing, it can't and doesn't really tell us the purpose of something, nothing can. So therefore, the question is unanswerable. But to us, I guess the point is to survive and reproduce, look what every single other animal does.

 

[bchmtnedisto]

i've got a dog that drinks beer.....



my point is there is much more we do as humans, and much more animals do too, than just reproduce.
come on fella's.slap yourselves back into reality.

there is nothing wrong with questioning why mankind is here.but there is definitely something wrong with continually asking and being consumed with "why am i here?"

 

[fedorfan]

Yeah, I agree but I mean the most basic things you should do are try to stay alive and make babies, atleast that's what I got from watching all the animals on tv. No there is not a thing wrong with questioning and wondering why were here but nothing can give us a absolute answer, like there isn't anything written down that tells us our purpose.

 

[fedorfan]

Also, I would like to say something about people not being able to comprehend the point of life, why would there even be a point of life if we couldn't comprehend it therefore we couldn't fulfill it which basically eliminates the point, what's the point of there being a point? Whats the point of that point and so on. In the end, everything is meaningless no matter what it seems like. I don't believe a higher being created us so therefore I don't believe we have a written in stone point. Like I said above, what's the point of having a point if we can't comprehend it? Theres just too many things we`ll never know.

 

[artrocket]

some things can be analyzed and comprehended, and that's why we have science. and there are some things that are yet just beyond our analysis, and would be better dealt with living, feeling and experiencing it as human beings, and that's why we have art.

 

[bchmtnedisto]

hmm,
that's a neat angle.

 

[nannoh]

there is nothing wrong with questioning why mankind is here.but there is definitely something wrong with continually asking and being consumed with "why am i here?"

What's the point of life?

To find out why I'm here.

Why am I here?

Because I'm not over there.

or

Why am I here?

There's no proof that you are here!

 

[fedorfan]

artrocket, I am saying though that if we can't comprehend and understand it then we won't be able to fulfill the point which basically eliminates the point for the point. And I don't really know what to think about science, we say there is 3 times more dimensions than we can see and all this other stuff, yet we try to understand the universe which I don't think we ever will fully and I also don't see how there could possibly be a god, there is just no proof atleast he hasnt shown us any if he is real, and it has been a long time for him to not have shown any proof so basically I have no reason to believe in god. I personally am not happy with this life`s knowledge and would actually like to die or atleast know way more than we do. But then again, what is the point for trying to understand what isn't us? We may have come from it but it is not conscious and there really is no point for trying to learn about because we won't truly understand everything and there is just no point for trying. Man, I am just ready for this existence to be over, I don't see anything happening as far as afterlife or god.

 

[fedorfan]

And also, if something will disprove god I believe it will be astronomy because the pictures I've seen of space are amazing and the telescopes may hold the key to knowing where we come from but I am just not happy with this. No I am not depressed and I am not troubled, just unhappy and unsatisfied with this life and knowledge we have. I would be fine with dying early because that way I could find out about more stuff, or go completely away from existence. But in this life, some of the things I enjoy are riding motocross, wrestling and fighting, and weed and lsd especially mixed. So, I guess Ill just have to wait to die because too many people would be disappointed if I ended my life early.