Whats the proof that god exists?

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God is an oudated instituition for the uneducated and meek. The concepts main task is to instill order through fear in a population, this benefits the state, hence the historical yet publicly challenged co-existence of church and state.

The concept is possibly THE ultimate evil - what better disguise for Lucifer?

I would give my eye teeth to view the finances of the Vatican. The only legal organisation on earth not subjected to legal / public financial audits.
 

onycho

Originally posted by FZ+

What the hell are you talking about?
(a) I did not copy that paragraph.


Actually you did not copy your paragraph, you plagarized it. Let's take a look at that paragraph of yours again.

The critical error made is to once again implant the creationist idea of set goals to work to. It doesn't happen like that. The production of many "irreducibly complex" organs have been demonstrated by either peripherals shifting to different functions, or by the development of redundant systems that disappear, in the same way as scaffolding is removed. In the analogy of the watch, in constructing the watch, additional features like clamps exist, and then are removed. Many of these redundant features that are disappearing can still be seen. (eg. the appendix) Behe is a laughing stock of the biological community.http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/behe.html
If you wrote this paragraph on your own, why would you include a reference to some appendix not present in your post?

You are therefore obviously a blatant thief of other peoples ideas and written words therey invalidating anything you state about Behe has the same credibility as your own ability to lie.

Ad hominem attacks are apparently your tool and trade when talking about an institution that is recognized for its integrity and truthfullness. Unlike others like yourself.

The remainder of your post is thereby irrelevant.
 
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Zero

Originally posted by onycho
Originally posted by FZ+

What the hell are you talking about?
(a) I did not copy that paragraph.


Actually you did not copy your paragraph, you plagarized it. Let's take a look at that paragraph of yours again.



If you wrote this paragraph on your own, why would you include a reference to some appendix not present in your post?

You are therefore obviously a blatant thief of other peoples ideas and written words therey invalidating anything you state about Behe has the same credibility as your own ability to lie.

Ad hominem attacks are apparently your tool and trade when talking about an institution that is recognized for its integrity and truthfullness. Unlike others like yourself.

The remainder of your post is thereby irrelevant.
You are frasping at straws, because you know the facts don't support your position.



And, of course, there you go claiming that the Discovery Institute is well-respected, which is an appeal to authority, and also simply not true. The Discovery Institute is a joke, a front, and a religious and poliical organization. Show me a non-creationist and non-rightwing group that "respects" the Discovery Institute. They are a FRONT, and they are LYING TO YOU. Don't you get it, or is your faith so weak that you need lies to prop it up?


The Discovery Institute is, for instance, well respected at Christianity.com ...as a ministry, not as a scientific organization.
 
466
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Originally posted by onycho
Originally posted by TENYEARS


What you experienced is known as a sudden healing experience. You saw static electricity jump from the metal cross to the neighbor with MS and he was suddenly healed. You see future events and now think you understand all things.

********************************************************************
*** The electricity went from the priest through the individual who was holding a cross in the palm of his closed hand. The cross was "blackend" not a spot of black but blankend to the point where you would only see if you had a bad electrical connection which was arcing over a long period of time or a sudden relase of high voltage.

Wake up.

********************************************************************


Actually this type of event is not new. I have seen cancer patients close to death suddenly have a remission from their disease. I have seen people crippled or with severe strokes, people with severe heart damage and disease all heal and planes that crash into a ball of flame, have more than half the passengers survive. Mysteries or unexplained. Even Jesus Christ is said to have healed the sick, made the blind see and make the dead rise. But these events are also reported to have occurred long before Christ's appearance on this earth and since his crucifixion.



********************************************************************

"Yes Elisa". Fact is they were all returned to health, what is needed to see would be the accelerated reproduction of a body part or mend beyond the bodies normal means to heal in any statisticlly derived possibility. This would have to be witnessed and made public. This would infer that the conciousness was capable of redirecting energy to accelerate healing. In this case I would unequivically be the only choice, with any reasonable allowance for statistical probablity.

********************************************************************



Do you remember the Star Trek series with Captain Kirk? There was a fictional episode when a young strong ship captain was on a planet where he suffered a severe accident resulting in his being deformed, blind, wheelchair bound and in severe pain all the time. The fictional aliens on this planet had the ability to place a new reality into the mind (consciousness) of that man where he returned to his former healthy self with all the strength and feelings he had prior to the accident. But all was as he assumed existed in his mind's eye.


********************************************************************

No. The only way to the father is though the son. Zero this one is for you. It sounds like a christian spouting the superiority of christ right. Wrong. This statements intent is to say, the only way to god is through gods creation(Son). In essence the materialist transformation of what you are made of. This transformation is purely physical energy process. What it leads to is logical, but I cannot take you there, you must go through yourself to find yourself.

********************************************************************


What if 'we' all exist as consciousness in a picture or hologram that our mind's eye perceives as reality and life on this planet? That would explain many things. What is the limit of our universe, how do such complex events occur that are totally impossible to happen by pure chance events over millions of years. That would explain the nature of matter, gravity, energy and what and where you were before you were born and where you will be after you leave this veil of tears. That unseen hand that formed this holographic image for our consciousness in a timeless dimension would be the driving force, something like those fictional aliens in Star Trek episode.
http://www.holomall.com/Holographic Universe.htm

Ok, I may or may not rip your belief, but I do rip your realization. You are satisfied with opionion, and belief, aspects of this may be true or it may be pure fanstasy. You you are a physican, I suppose you don't have much time to think of the mysteries of this life. I once had huge chunks of time years ago, I used them.

I have physical explantions for every one of the questions you pose. Real answers figured out by me and sometimes the answers were far more than idea black box stored in my mind. Pure thought. Pure sweat. Real answers. When you are ready, you will do that yourself.

My concern as I will restate in the past is the planet and our lack of responsiblity to it, our childrens future and the "continued cycle of life". If humans understood this, the world would change.

Your post on creation was good, build on it or go deeper.
 
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FZ+

1,550
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If you wrote this paragraph on your own, why would you include a reference to some appendix not present in your post?

Oh my... Look at your nearest dictionary. Look up appendix, about the second definition.

2: a vestigial process that extends from the lower end of the cecum and that resembles a small pouch
The appendix in a human example of a vestigial organ. It is a left over of a human digestive system that was not irreducibly complex, that is in the process of being removed to leave a more efficient, and less complicated system. It is an example that in evolution, less is often more, and things do not always build up. Basic anatomy, anyone?

EDIT: I might have considered attaching an appendix, but the goriness... may have been rather messy.
 
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onycho

Plagarize

Originally posted by FZ+

You are frasping (?Spelling) at straws, because you know the facts don't support your position.

I suppose you are trying to say 'grasping' at straws. Actually you are grabbing for a flotation device when you have grabbed onto an anchor. Just disclaiming the obvious does not relieve you from intellectual dishonesty. When you use other people's works, all you have to do is quote it or give some indication of the work product as being from the person you use as reference.

Definition: Plagiarize

1. To use and pass off (the ideas or writings of another) as one's own.
2. To appropriate for use as one's own passages or ideas from (another).

INTRANSITIVE VERB: To put forth as original to oneself the ideas or words of another.
Stealing other people intellectual property as your own is not permitted on this site.

You are being reported to this site's mentor for action at his discretion.

Any derogatory statements you make about the Discovery Institute remains in the same light as a plagiarizer and thief you are. Dr. Behe's work is beyond reproach and you are an ignormaous.

Have fun.......
 
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Zero

This just gets better and better...


Obviously, Behe's work is the opposite of "above reproach", since generally scientists think he is wrong, and for the reason of practicing bad science.

Keep hiding behind your blind faith in liars, though...I don't understand why you wouldn't be dismayed at the Discovery Institute for intellectual dishonesty, but I guess they are following the Biblical call to lie in the name of religious faith.
 

onycho

Originally posted by Zero

You are frasping at straws, because you know the facts don't support your position.

Learn to spell before you accuse others. You are putting yourself in the same light as a plariarizer of other people' works.


You make accusations of others like Dr. Behe with nothing more than invectives and distortions about religious bias.

You are a little man who is also a bigot.
 

onycho

Originally posted by Zero

This just gets better and better... Obviously, Behe's work is the opposite of "above reproach", since generally scientists think he is wrong, and for the reason of practicing bad science.Keep hiding behind your blind faith in liars, though...I don't understand why you wouldn't be dismayed at the Discovery Institute for intellectual dishonesty, but I guess they are following the Biblical call to lie in the name of religious faith.

How is it that you think that making libelous claims proves anything when you have no evidence for these accusations.

You are apparently born an microcephalic moron. Get a life....
 

Zero

Originally posted by onycho
Originally posted by Zero

You are frasping at straws, because you know the facts don't support your position.

Learn to spell before you accuse others. You are putting yourself in the same light as a plariarizer of other people' works.


You make accusations of others like Dr. Behe with nothing more than invectives and distortions about religious bias.

You are a little man who is also a bigot.
LOL

If a group claims to be non-religious, and then it turns out to be a religious organization, that makes them liars, right?

Are you related to Behe, BTW? Is there a reason that you pretend that he is an unquestionable authority?
 

Zero

Ok, onycho, here's your one and only warning: you are attacking members of PF for attacking public figures and organizations. Our attacks on Behe and the Discovery "Institute" are fair play; your attacks on us are not. Stop making personal attacks, remove yourself from conversations that make you too angry to control yourself, or find some other place to post.
 

onycho

Originally posted by TENYEARS

Ok, I may or may not rip your belief, but I do rip your realization. You are satisfied with opionion, and belief, aspects of this may be true or it may be pure fanstasy. You you are a physican, I suppose you don't have much time to think of the mysteries of this life. I once had huge chunks of time years ago, I used them.

Rip away.... You apparently have large chunks but I do not think you are referring to time.

I have physical explantions for every one of the questions you pose. Real answers figured out by me and sometimes the answers were far more than idea black box stored in my mind. Pure thought. Pure sweat. Real answers. When you are ready, you will do that yourself.

You have PURE imagination but I doubt you have one idea about anything as you seem to be unwilling to share these brilliant, out of this world ideas about everything?

My concern as I will restate in the past is the planet and our lack of responsiblity to it, our childrens future and the "continued cycle of life". If humans understood this, the world would change.

Are you a 'tree-hugger'? The amazing thing is that this world has a built in continuous ecosystem to cleans itself no matter what humans or volcanos do the planet. Long before there were homosapiens, the earth had ice ages, major temperature changes without one car burning fuel or pollution being pumped into the air or sea. You apparently haven't the faintest idea about the magic built into this world for anything man can do to it. The future of mankind will have nothing to do with the world enviornment but more like the ability to destroy themselves with the invention of the subatomic world's mysteries (the atom).

Your post on creation was good, build on it or go deeper.

If I could go deeper, I would be a god.
 

FZ+

1,550
2
You are being reported to this site's mentor for action at his discretion.
That would be her. Kerrie is female.

For the meantime, you might consider bringing your righteous fury to the maths forum, where their plagarism is evidence by terms such as indices, and numbers. (obvious reference to page numbers) Also, try that Values thread where they talk about being content. Long live the cause of justice!
 

onycho

Originally posted by Zero

Ok, onycho, here's your one and only warning:

Uh Oh, you are so scary...

you are attacking members of PF for attacking public figures and organizations. Our attacks on Behe and the Discovery "Institute" are fair play; your attacks on us are not. Stop making personal attacks, remove yourself from conversations that make you too angry to control yourself, or find some other place to post.

Angry, me? You attack without one shred of proof or evidence with just accusations and envy of those scientists who are so far above your intellectual level.

Anger is always concerned with individuals, ... whereas hatred is directed also against classes: we all hate any thief or any informer. Moreover, anger can be cured by time; but hatred cannot. The one aims at giving pain to its object, the other at doing him harm; the angry man wants his victim to feel; the hater does not mind whether they feel or not.

ATTRIBUTION: Aristotle (384–322 B.C.
 

Zero

I don't envy anyone who cannot be honest about their intentions. That pretty much overs the entire Discovery Institute...they are liars, and frauds.

Actually, their crime is worse than that. What makes them so horrible is how the corrupt the intellectual integrity of the people who trust them. I think it is great that people look beyond the attitude of "the Bible says so, so it is true" and try to find out whether their beliefs are backed up by reason and science. Maybe that is why I am so upset that the best they can find is something like the Discovery Institute. They aren't good Christians, because they denounce their Christian ties, but they aren't good scientists, because they start out with the Bible, and manipulate the data to fit that worldview. They are in fact the worst of both worlds, and should be rightly denounced by both sides.
 

Zero

Oh, and BTW, I'm not "scary", but I'm a mentor on PF, and I am informing you that you violating PF rules.
 

onycho

Originally posted by Nath

God is an oudated instituition for the uneducated and meek. The concepts main task is to instill order through fear in a population, this benefits the state, hence the historical yet publicly challenged co-existence of church and state. The concept is possibly THE ultimate evil - what better disguise for Lucifer? I would give my eye teeth to view the finances of the Vatican. The only legal organisation on earth not subjected to legal / public financial audits.

Ignorance must be bliss.... Your Marxist concepts are very revealing about your fears of the unknown.
 

Zero

Originally posted by onycho
Originally posted by Zero

This just gets better and better... Obviously, Behe's work is the opposite of "above reproach", since generally scientists think he is wrong, and for the reason of practicing bad science.Keep hiding behind your blind faith in liars, though...I don't understand why you wouldn't be dismayed at the Discovery Institute for intellectual dishonesty, but I guess they are following the Biblical call to lie in the name of religious faith.

How is it that you think that making libelous claims proves anything when you have no evidence for these accusations.

You are apparently born an microcephalic moron. Get a life....
Just saving this so it can't be edited out later...evidence, it isn't just for scientists!
 

onycho

Originally posted by Zero

LOL If a group claims to be non-religious, and then it turns out to be a religious organization, that makes them liars, right? Are you related to Behe, BTW? Is there a reason that you pretend that he is an unquestionable authority?

1) Where do you find any claim that any group claims to be non-religious?

2) No I am not related to Dr. Behe, have never met him and know him only from his books and papers.

3) I have never pretended that Dr. Behe is an unquestional source, it is you who make unsubstantiated statements to the contrary.
 

onycho

Originally posted by Zero

Just saving this so it can't be edited out later...evidence, it isn't just for scientists!

WHAT???? What kindergarten did you graduate from?
 

onycho

Originally posted by Zero

I don't envy anyone who cannot be honest about their intentions. That pretty much overs the entire Discovery Institute...they are liars, and frauds. Actually, their crime is worse than that. What makes them so horrible is how the corrupt the intellectual integrity of the people who trust them. I think it is great that people look beyond the attitude of "the Bible says so, so it is true" and try to find out whether their beliefs are backed up by reason and science. Maybe that is why I am so upset that the best they can find is something like the Discovery Institute. They aren't good Christians, because they denounce their Christian ties, but they aren't good scientists, because they start out with the Bible, and manipulate the data to fit that worldview. They are in fact the worst of both worlds, and should be rightly denounced by both sides.

Still just your vitriol without proof.

Intolerance is evidence of impotence.

ATTRIBUTION: Aleister Crowley
 

Zero

Originally posted by onycho
Originally posted by Zero

Just saving this so it can't be edited out later...evidence, it isn't just for scientists!

WHAT???? What kindergarten did you graduate from?
Saving this one too...I can't wait for kerrie to take a look at this thread!!!
 

Zero

Anyhoo, to get back on topic, it seems to me that anything like ID or "irreducable complexity" can't be used as a proof of "God", on account of the fact that it could have been Martians who did it.
 

onycho

YEP THATS PROOF ALRIGHT

Originally posted by Zero

Here's Behe:http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/behe.html
And here's the Discovery Institute: http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5582&abbr=cs_&security=1001&news_iv_ctrl=1075


Zero, do you have a brain in your acephalic head?

You say here's the Discovery Institute as proof of being a religious front group.

Well you forgot to mention one little tiny detail. Your site proofs are the religious group known as the 'Americans United for Separation of Church and State' and that Galapagos Island virtual on-line university.

Hardly independent unbiased atheist anti-religious organizations decrying a scientific prestigious institute like the Discorvery Institute.

You'll have to do better. Try proving your point with The Discovery Site information site itself or a recognized unbiased scientific institute that finds 'Discovery Institute' a religious front.
 

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