News What's wrong in Israel

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drag

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Originally posted by Zero
...on both sides.
That must've hurt...
 

LogicalAtheist

ZERO isn't biased at all. I'm scared to think ones mind can twist such that his post appears anything BUT unbias.

I'm slowly beginning to see the counter-productivity that occurs here!

Originally posted by drag
Greetings !

Zero, you're the MOST biased person I've ever
seen after the really propoganda filled
palestinians themselves perhaps.

What you quote above is what happenned after
these people helped the two British arab
Muslims penetrate into Israel and commit a
suicide attack. But, I suppose you just forgot
to mention that part...

Further more, these organizations and "peace"
activists are well known for their often really
rediculous propoganda attempts and the occasional
abstruction of military operations and even
cooporation with local terrorist organizations.

And if that's the way they conduct their
"peace" actions then damn right they should
be thrown out ! Just like foreigh citizens are
thrown out of any country when they act against it.

Live long and prosper.
 

FZ+

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Originally posted by drag
Greetings !

Zero, you're the MOST biased person I've ever
seen after the really propoganda filled
palestinians themselves perhaps.

What you quote above is what happenned after
these people helped the two British arab
Muslims penetrate into Israel and commit a
suicide attack. But, I suppose you just forgot
to mention that part...

Further more, these organizations and "peace"
activists are well known for their often really
rediculous propoganda attempts and the occasional
abstruction of military operations and even
cooporation with local terrorist organizations.

And if that's the way they conduct their
"peace" actions then damn right they should
be thrown out ! Just like foreigh citizens are
thrown out of any country when they act against it.

Live long and prosper.
Drag, this time you are dead wrong. The two terrorists were not there in any connection with a peace or human rights activist group. Secondly, these groups are campaigning for peace, hence the name. They do not have an unified power base to conduct propaganda for - they are protestors. Thirdly, there is no evidence of cooperation with terrorist organisations, and none have ever been arrested, let alone charged. The only way they obstruct military operations is by shielding children, for which they are run over by an Israeli bulldozer, which then REVERSED BACK OVER. Fifth, their actions are in accordance with conventions for free speech, and are protected under international laws of human rights. Have you any idea what is going on? I suppose those human rights groups must be terrorists too, right?
 

Zero

Don't mind Drag, kids...he is entitled to his opinion, and we shuldn't gang up on him


*Edited because even I can make mistakes, few though they are*
 
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LogicalAtheist

ZERO - Agreed. He's one that's standing out as a bad side of the group. You meanwhile are great! Keep 'em comin'!
 

Zero

American tax dollars pay for Israel's army...I think we have a duty to ask questions about their behavior, especially when the wider world sees it as being less than humane.
 

drag

Science Advisor
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Originally posted by Zero
Don't mind Drag, kids...he can't help but
hate anyone who doesn't support HIS beliefs....
and facts be damned, I suppose.
Nope.
I always deal with ALL the info.
Perhaps you people failed to notice that
the writer of that "news article" if it can
be at all called that is a palestinian
Uni. lecturer ? :wink:

You may wan'na consider this the next time
Zero posts something in the Politics forum.
Or was that not a poorly weiled propoganda trick, Zero ?
Stop lying !

Back to what's really going down with this.
First of all, EVERY country DOES have the FULL
LEGAL RIGHT not to allow foreign citizens whom
it considers unwanted, certainly people who pose
a security threat to themselves and others not to
enter it.

Second, not only did these people hide a terrorist
before which was proven and indeed possibly helped
two others now, it is certainly likely that other
cases may've existed - where there's smoke there's
ussualy fire.

In addition, the ugly propoganda tricks of these
people are well known. They are informed ahead
of violent palestinian demonstrations so that they
could get there right after the attacks and
stand in the way obscuring the attackers and the
snipers and film the IDF as though they're
shooting back at supposedly unarmed people.
They stand in the way of heavy vehicles when
these come to destroy uninhabited houses (unless
the terrorists who operate them are "inhabitants")
with tunnels in them dug to Egypt and used to deliver
tons of arms and ammunition. They film the
destruction of the houses of suicide bombers,
the many family members of whom happily claim
they have many more family memebers to sacrifice,
and then make it look as though it was some
completely random and unrelated action they
"just happened" to witness.

In short, there's nothing wrong or bad
about throwing these people out. They
can join the ones who tied themselves
to Iraqi millitary hardware and go
tie themselves to a nut-house fence in
Antarctica or something.

Live long and prosper.
 

russ_watters

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drag, just wanted to wish you luck here and cast my vote in your direction. I won't participate in the discussion though, since I think this arguement is one that can't be discussed rationally. It seriously does escape me though, how normally rational people can abandon reason when they discuss politics.

Hmm... Maybe I should start a thread on that. Can you apply the principles of the scientific method to aspects of politics?
 

GENIERE

2nd that!
 

damgo

It seriously does escape me though, how normally rational people can abandon reason when they discuss politics.
That's what we on the Left think of you few intelligent conservatives. :wink:

drag, you spin a pretty tale, how about providing some documentation for these assertions? They seem somewhat slanted. Ideally from a source that doesn't talk about the Nazi links of anti-war protestors, or how Islam is an evil religion, or how God deeded over Judea and Samaria to the Jewish people...

An alternative explanation is that the IDF simply does not like the extra scrutiny and irritation forced upon it by peace demonstrators. This is a common phenomena in the US -- both liberal and conservative local politicians, university officials, etc, very often try to crack down on protests they think might be at all 'disruptive.' This is not a good thing.
 

drag

Science Advisor
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Greetings !
Originally posted by russ_watters
Hmm... Maybe I should start a thread on that.
Can you apply the principles of the scientific
method to aspects of politics?
Not to a full extent, I think. Basicly, all you
need is to know everything that happened.
However, then you have to also consider
the enitial POVs of the observer and his
moral and ethical POVs.

For example, you can fully know that a
terrorist plans to carry out an attack.
But, people disagree over the assasination
of such a person in this case. (Personally,
I have no idea why... ) And that's just
one example.
Originally posted by damgo
drag, you spin a pretty tale, how about
providing some documentation for these
assertions? They seem somewhat slanted.
Ideally from a source that doesn't talk
about the Nazi links of anti-war protestors,
or how Islam is an evil religion, or how
God deeded over Judea and Samaria to the
Jewish people...
Excuse me ?
Could you, please, provide evidence of my
messages in this forum containing intentional
lies and propoganda (like the "you know who's"
messages) ?
Originally posted by damgo
An alternative explanation is that the IDF
simply does not like the extra scrutiny
and irritation forced upon it by peace
demonstrators. This is a common phenomena
in the US -- both liberal and conservative
local politicians, university officials,
etc, very often try to crack down on protests
they think might be at all 'disruptive.'
This is not a good thing.
Of course they don't like it, why would they ?
When these people twist the facts on international
TV and put themselves and everybody else
in danger by interfering in military actions
they're not doing anything to earn any
sympathy from the IDF, naturally.

BUT, that's not why they are banned.
They are thrown out because of their
highly suspected connections with terrorists
and because of the possible potential that
such connections would grow if they are not
prevented at an early stage.

Live long and prosper.
 

damgo

^^^ E v i d e n c e.

I'm not accusing you of intentional lies and propaganda; I don't think anyone here posts those. I just suspect that you are misinformed. I would like to know where you are getting your information re the IDF and protestors, so I can judge its accuracy and reliability for myself. Capiche?
 

Zero

Originally posted by drag

Of course they don't like it, why would they ?
When these people twist the facts on international
TV and put themselves and everybody else
in danger by interfering in military actions
they're not doing anything to earn any
sympathy from the IDF, naturally.

BUT, that's not why they are banned.
They are thrown out because of their
highly suspected connections with terrorists
and because of the possible potential that
such connections would grow if they are not
prevented at an early stage.

Live long and prosper.
Maybe you could post a link to something...I provide links when I can...and you sound much more like propaganda than I do. 'Israel is right no matter right' sounds a lot more biased than my attitude of 'Both sides have flaws that should be addressed.'
 

russ_watters

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Originally posted by Zero
'Israel is right no matter right' sounds a lot more biased than my attitude....
Heh. Nice of you to include single quotes as no one has said any such thing.

For example, you can fully know that a
terrorist plans to carry out an attack.
But, people disagree over the assasination
of such a person in this case. (Personally,
I have no idea why...) And that's just
one example.
Ok, I'll go with that. The issue is even more basic than an ethical dilema on killing a terrorist before an attack. Not everyone would call that terrorist a terrorist. A LOT of people like to say "one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter." Is he? No. There are international laws/treaties that define quite clearly what actions are right and wrong in an armed conflict. Certainly individual circumstances can be more complicated, but any two rational people should be able to look at one specific act (for example blowing up a bus full of kids), use the agreed-upon definition, and agree that it is terrorism, murder, completely wrong, and not justified under any circumstances.

But people don't agree. This is partly because some people will apply different criteria or definitions in different circumstances in order to be able to use whatever word they want to describe an action. This means those people are irrational.

Applied to science, it would be akin to saying MY definition of up is down, therefore the sky is down. People won't accept such absurdities in a scientific discussion. Why do people accept them in a political one? Doublethink?

edit: Hey, wait - thats Einstein's relativity: The laws of the universe are the same for all observers regardless of their frame of reference. It applies to politics as well.
 
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Zero

Russ...I was 'quoting' a general attitude, the one where ANYTHING showing Israel in a less-than-perfect light is automatically treated as a lie. I wasn't claiming that anyone would be honest enough to state what is obviously their opinion.
 
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russ_watters

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Originally posted by Zero
Russ...I was 'quoting' a general attitude, the one where ANYTHING showing Israel in a less-than-perfect light is automatically treated as a lie. I wasn't vlaiming that anyone would be honest enough to state what is obviously their opinion.
Your good looks are like someone shining a flashlight in my eyes, its so glaring.

*edited for ANOTHER personal attack!*
 
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Zero

Well, maybe that isn't their opinion, but that is certainly some people's worldview. What else explains labeling peace activists as terror supporters?
 

russ_watters

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Originally posted by russ_watters
Your good looks are like someone shining a flashlight in my eyes, its so glaring.

*edited for ANOTHER personal attack!*
Right, Zero. Maybe I should have worded it differently.

How about: The hypocrisy in YOUR POST is glaring?

And you're really REACHING to find personal attacks aimed at you from others since I'm sure you know you have posted many.

And btw: it must be nice to be able to attack others while editing other people's posts for what you consider personal attacks. If I were in a similar position, I'd resign from being a moderator of a forum I have a strong personal opinion about. Conflicts of interest are unethical. But hey - ethics are important to me.
 
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Zero

Hell, I thought it was kind of funny...



...and if you have some actual point to make on this thread, why don't you try making it. If not, don't post.
 

Zargawee

It's a standard zionist argument, ie let the Arabs give the Palestinians a scrap of land they can call their homeland. Trouble is, the real Palestinian homeland and the jewish one are the same place. Israel must compromise or we'll get nowhere
Why ? they have their own homeland !

Ah but, we are forgetting the zionist trump card: they are god's chosen people in god's chosen location and, in the zionists' own words, the Palestinians are vermin and worthless scum. If you have the big bearded guy in the sky on your side, you can do anything you want.
This shows who is the hate side ... and obviously , this reflects why they consider their actions not terror , while palestinians actions are terror .

There is nothing to think about. The
Palestinians are the side to blame for
the conflict and that is it. If the
Palestinians stopped fighting there would
be no conflict and they'd have a good
country many years old by now. All that
knocking your forhead on the floor stuff
simply ain't helping.
Really ? Duhh !
This is what they did from 1967 to 1988 !! and what happened then ?

*Edited for PF Guideline violations*


Who else can be better to moderate the PaWA forum than Zero ? ( With all my respect to other Moderators ) ... Zero Is The Best Moderator In here ( Personal opnion )
 
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Zero

Thank you, Zargawee...and there's no need to drag up old personal attacks, and respond with personal attacks of your own.
 

Ganshauk

Whats wrong in Isreal?

There are the Isrealis there on one hand, and the palestinians on the other.

Wipe them all out and...no problem!
 

drag

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Greetings !
Originally posted by damgo
I would like to know where you are getting
your information re the IDF and protestors,
so I can judge its accuracy and reliability
for myself. Capiche?
From relativly direct sources.
Originally posted by Zargawee
Really ? Duhh !
This is what they did from 1967 to 1988 !!
and what happened then ?
The Palestinians weren't exactly peacefull
all that time, but more important and relevant
is the fact that they had no central government
or rule to nagotiate with or manage them.
Partialy, the reason for that was Israel -
they had no real intrest in a palestinian leadership
because at that point in time it would've clearly
most likely be an enemy of Israel and receive
military support from neighboring countries.

But, I was talking about the past 10-15 years
and aspecialy about the current situation.

Live long and prosper.
 

FZ+

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Zargawee

The Palestinians weren't exactly peacefull
all that time, but more important and relevant
is the fact that they had no central government
or rule to nagotiate with or manage them.
Partialy, the reason for that was Israel -
they had no real intrest in a palestinian leadership
because at that point in time it would've clearly
most likely be an enemy of Israel and receive
military support from neighboring countries.
There Was a military support from we neighbors , but it stopped just after the end of the six-day war in 1967 , and after that Palestine has gone on it's own , so it's Israel's fault for not giving the Palestinans the opprtunity to have their own leadership.

But, I was talking about the past 10-15 years
and aspecialy about the current situation.
Then Never talk about "The Zionists Lived in there 2000 years ago" Or anything like that .
Because it's just some Bull-$hit , and You Don't want to talk about it.
 

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