- #1

ngkamsengpeter

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What is Bell's inequality theorem ?

Where can I find the details explanation of this theory ?

Thanks for help .

Where can I find the details explanation of this theory ?

Thanks for help .

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- Thread starter ngkamsengpeter
- Start date

- #1

ngkamsengpeter

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Where can I find the details explanation of this theory ?

Thanks for help .

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- #2

quasar987

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Perhaps you could have access to such a document in your nearest education establishment.

- #3

jtbell

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http://www.upscale.utoronto.ca/GeneralInterest/Harrison/BellsTheorem/BellsTheorem.html

http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/kenny/papers/bell.html

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/bell-theorem/

The last one is rather technical, but I'm including it anyway because its author, Abner Shimony, is well known for his published research on this subject.

- #4

Locrian

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In the search function! Seriously!

- #5

DrChinese

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I will also pass on some pages I keep on my site for this purpose. If you want to read the 3 original papers crucial to the subject (including Bell's paper), you can see all in PDF format:

EPR, Bell and Aspect: The Original References

If you are interested in a very easy version of the math, but following Mermin's variation of Bell's Inequality, try:

Bell's Theorem with Easy Math

And if you are interested in something following Bell more closely, but a little easier to understand than Bell, try:

Bell's Theorem and Negative Probabilities

(This one assumes you already understand the basic ideas of Bell, but perhaps not the actual math.)

- #6

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Zz.

- #7

nightlight

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For the other half of the story you can check:

http://homepages.tesco.net/~trevor.marshall/antiqm.html, Emilio Santos and in a popular form for general readers visit Carline Thompson. There were also several PhysicsForum threads (in which I participated) with more references and in-depth discussions Young's experiment and Photon "Wave Collapse" Experiment (Yeah sure; AJP Sep 2004, Thorn...).

http://homepages.tesco.net/~trevor.marshall/antiqm.html, Emilio Santos and in a popular form for general readers visit Carline Thompson. There were also several PhysicsForum threads (in which I participated) with more references and in-depth discussions Young's experiment and Photon "Wave Collapse" Experiment (Yeah sure; AJP Sep 2004, Thorn...).

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- #8

DrChinese

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nightlight said:For the other half of the story you can check:

...

- #9

DrChinese

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ZapperZ said:

Zz.

Thanks ZapperZ for the kind words.

One of my links is brand new - Bell's Theorem with Easy Math. It is actually a result of a link you had asked about a while back - I thought it could be reformulated for easier understanding. Any comments are appreciated.

- #10

Edgardo

- 705

- 15

Hello ngkamsengpeter,

check out this thread here: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=82446

There I mentioned the following paper, that is very(!) good :

[1] Daniel M. Greenberger, Michael A. Horne, Abner Shimony, Anton Zeilinger

"Bell's theorem without inequalities", American Journal of Physics Vol. 58 (12), December 1990.

Have a look at the Appendix where Bell's inequality is derived.

To download the paper do the following:

Type in google "American Journal of Physics" and Browse "All Online Issues"

http://scitation.aip.org/dbt/dbt.jsp?KEY=AJPIAS [Broken]

Go to Volume 58, to December and search for the title.

http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=AJPIAS000058000012001131000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=Yes [Broken]

You will need a subscription, which your university will probably have.

The following papers were recommended by slyboy:

[2] "The mystery of the quantum cakes," P.G. Kwiat and L. Hardy, Am. J. Phys. 68, 33 (2000).

http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=AJPIAS000068000001000033000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=Yes [Broken]

You have to read this paper! It really explains what is meant by "local realism" in a nice way (yummy, quantum cakes ).

[3] "Quantum mechanics, local realistic theories, and Lorentz-invariant realistic theories", Hardy L.

PHYS REV LETT 68: (20) 2981-2984 MAY 18 1992

http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v68/i20/p2981_1

You could read this after having read [2], since [2] is based on this one. I should mention that I really understood what [2] and [3] were about after the following paper:

[4]"Quantum mysteries refined", N. David Mermin, American Journal of Physics 62, October 1994, page 880-887.

http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=AJPIAS000062000010000880000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=Yes [Broken]

Read especially page 881 right bottom side! (I had to read it several times until I got it. Then suddenly the papers [2] and [3] became clear to me).

[5] "Hidden Variables and the Two Theorems of John Bell", N. David Mermin, Rev. Mod. Phys. 65, 803–815 (1993)

http://prola.aps.org/abstract/RMP/v65/i3/p803_1

I haven't read this yet.

check out this thread here: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=82446

There I mentioned the following paper, that is very(!) good :

[1] Daniel M. Greenberger, Michael A. Horne, Abner Shimony, Anton Zeilinger

"Bell's theorem without inequalities", American Journal of Physics Vol. 58 (12), December 1990.

Have a look at the Appendix where Bell's inequality is derived.

To download the paper do the following:

Type in google "American Journal of Physics" and Browse "All Online Issues"

http://scitation.aip.org/dbt/dbt.jsp?KEY=AJPIAS [Broken]

Go to Volume 58, to December and search for the title.

http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=AJPIAS000058000012001131000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=Yes [Broken]

You will need a subscription, which your university will probably have.

The following papers were recommended by slyboy:

[2] "The mystery of the quantum cakes," P.G. Kwiat and L. Hardy, Am. J. Phys. 68, 33 (2000).

http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=AJPIAS000068000001000033000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=Yes [Broken]

You have to read this paper! It really explains what is meant by "local realism" in a nice way (yummy, quantum cakes ).

[3] "Quantum mechanics, local realistic theories, and Lorentz-invariant realistic theories", Hardy L.

PHYS REV LETT 68: (20) 2981-2984 MAY 18 1992

http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v68/i20/p2981_1

You could read this after having read [2], since [2] is based on this one. I should mention that I really understood what [2] and [3] were about after the following paper:

[4]"Quantum mysteries refined", N. David Mermin, American Journal of Physics 62, October 1994, page 880-887.

http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=AJPIAS000062000010000880000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=Yes [Broken]

Read especially page 881 right bottom side! (I had to read it several times until I got it. Then suddenly the papers [2] and [3] became clear to me).

[5] "Hidden Variables and the Two Theorems of John Bell", N. David Mermin, Rev. Mod. Phys. 65, 803–815 (1993)

http://prola.aps.org/abstract/RMP/v65/i3/p803_1

I haven't read this yet.

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- #11

nightlight

- 187

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You're right, of course. It is not the

Yep, those evil deniers. From Einstein, Planck, Schrodinger, de Broglie, Fermi,... through Jaynes, Barut, Marshall, Santos,... Since statement of facts is not a "denial", in order to "deny Bell tests" there has to be a test that violated Bell's inequalities -- there has to exist the so-called

- #12

DrChinese

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nightlight said:Yep, those evil deniers[/url]. From Einstein, Planck, Schrodinger, de Broglie, Fermi,...

Nightlight, you have a distorted sense of the language which does not serve the novice reader of this thread. With the exception of de Broglie, these famous people you cited could NEVER have denied Bell tests because they died before Bell published his paper. Please, don't bother to explain this blatant inaccuracy in another post.

If you want to debate the validity of Bell tests (yet again zzzzz), please start another thread. This thread is about Bell's Theorem.

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- #13

nightlight

- 187

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Readers should decide for themselves what serves them and what doesn't. Half truths or misinformation usually don't serve anyone but those pushing them.

They didn't know the specific inequality, but they rejected its implications (the nonlocal effects in general). Hence, from the general rejection of non-local effects, any special case, such as Bell's inequality violation, is automatically rejected.

There is nothing to debate about the well known fact that no experimental violation of Bell's inequalities was ever obtained, assuming the conventional meaning of term violation (i.e. that the counts violate the inequality). Of course, if one redefines words so that plain violation is called "loophole free violation" while the plain non-violation is called just "violation" then, yes, you get "violation", or anything else you could wish (say, you choose to call your Toyota as "Rolls Royce", and now you're driving "Rolls Royce").

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- #14

- 35,995

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Zz.

- #15

slyboy

- 207

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The following papers were recommended by slyboy:

Wow, somebody was listening!

- #16

Edgardo

- 705

- 15

slyboy said:Wow, somebody was listening!

Of course!

By the way, thanks for posting the papers slyboy,

I really enjoyed reading them, especially the quantum cakes.

- #17

snooper007

- 33

- 1

You may consult Bell's Book "Speakable and unspeakable in quantum physics"

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