1. Nov 15, 2006

### Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Here is a nice service coming online.

http://www.nearbio.com/nearbio/index.shtml

2. Nov 16, 2006

### brewnog

Excellent!

Now where in the USA do you buy Diesel cars....?!

3. Nov 16, 2006

### physics girl phd

Yeah -- especially at the cost of my "prevandalized" beater?

"prevandalized" = The then-boyfriend's car was considered totalled by his insurance company after the vandalization (mostly cosmetic); I bought it from them (at totalled cost... cheap) and fixed it up (lights, mirrors and a window) because the engine was a great 6-cylinder one (my car was down to two cylinders while I was living in a mountainous region). It runs great, but it's a glued and stitched "frankenkar"... and a midwestern crap car to boot (Pontiac Bonneville -- yeah, what can I say, he was a "Michigan boy"? :!!) ).

Although I do lust after old rusty diesel trucks. Maybe I'll get one of those to save on fuel costs and help the environment.

4. Nov 16, 2006

### brewnog

It's debatable whether a rusty old Diesel truck would be helping the environment.

5. Nov 16, 2006

### Beeza

Make it in your garage :) The university I attend offers yearly clinics on how to home-brew biodiesel in your own garage.

6. Nov 16, 2006

### Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Biodiesel is carbon neutral.

The diesels are either here or coming.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/04/autos/fortune_diesels.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2006100409

And diesel hybrids are coming as well.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107691 [Broken]

Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
7. Nov 16, 2006

### Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Btw, be sure to check out the map on the first page linked [in the first post].

It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas.

8. Nov 16, 2006

### physics girl phd

If one is using that much grease in one's kitchen (or are THAT friendly with the donut-shop), :uhh: one should perhaps consider using self-powered forms of transportation.

Actually, my grad school institution offered these workshops too -- and used biodiesel in the vehicles on campus. Now for me to get that biodiesel-guzzling old rust-heap, right?

9. Nov 16, 2006

### physics girl phd

I'm pleased at the density of stations in the midwest. Of course -- it is car country.. and farming country. Of course, as I blast through this weekend during an interstate relocation, it is in the gas-guzzling prevandalized Bonneville, which can't use fry-based fuel.

10. Nov 16, 2006

### Andre

Bio-diesel smells like french fries and it's fun to make. But it should be considered a posteriority when doing some quantification of available insolation in watt/m2 and the final capture of that energy in vegetable oil/ diesel. Because the law of preservation of problems may get you here:

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=605&id=1656212006 [Broken]

But it's fun to recycle the waste fry oil of the fast food industry.

My cute little diesel car (1.6HDI):

http://www.autogaleria.pl/fotografie/peugeot/peugeot_207_2006_02.jpg [Broken]

runs 1 litre on 22 kilometres is about 1 gallon to 52 miles.

Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
11. Nov 16, 2006

### Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Andre, the used cooking oil is only a small fraction of production.

Don't worry, you'll find somewhere to sell your N. Sea oil.

Last edited: Nov 16, 2006
12. Nov 16, 2006

### brewnog

Andre, don't even THINK about putting cooking oil in the Pug!

Ivan, I'm aware that B100 is carbon neutral, I'm more concerned about NOx emissions when using it in older (ie pre EU Stage IV / EPA Tier 4) engines. Don't get me wrong, I'm completely in favour of biodiesel, but I would be hesitant to pin all environmental hopes on its use!

We're starting to see biodiesel and bioethanol supplemented fuels quite commonly in the UK now, and across Europe too I believe.

13. Nov 16, 2006

### Astronuc

Staff Emeritus
Speaking of the Audi TDI
http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/experience/motorsport/Audi_R10_TDI/TDI_Power_for_racing.html [Broken]

http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/experience/motorsport/Audi_R10_TDI/The_Audi_R10_TDI.html [Broken]

http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/experience/motorsport/Audi_R10_TDI/24_Hours_Le_Mans.html [Broken]

http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/experience/motorsport/Audi_R10_TDI/Audi_in_ALMS.html [Broken]

Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
14. Nov 16, 2006

### Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Ah, the NOXs have been an issue. I don't see biodiesel [and in particular biodiesel from algae] as the end all energy and environmental solution. However, I do see it as, first, a transitional technology to a hydrogen economy, and perhaps more importantly these days, a direct path to energy independence. In the US, the argument for alternative fuels is now at least as much a matter of national security as it is environmental issue. It is also an economic issue. This will be a huge plus for the US economy. IIRC, we import about half a trillion dollars worth of crude each year. Now we can keep this money at home.

Even the production of biodiesel from regular seed crops is about thirty times more efficient than the production of ethanol from corn. The yeilds from algae are staggering.

15. Nov 17, 2006

### brewnog

Hooray!

Ivan, if you could get just 10% of Americans to understand why Diesel (let alone biodiesel) is a clear advance forwards, then I'd cook you a nice hot dinner every day for the rest of your life!

NOx would be an issue with clattery old IDI low pressure sod-the-emissions engines, but we have the technology now to all but eliminate it in modern CI engines.

Half of all cars now sold in Europe are Diesels, why is the US not right behind us?! Where did my thread about this go?!

16. Nov 17, 2006

### Anttech

You dont have diesel cars in the States?

17. Nov 17, 2006

### Andre

Don't worry, this is how it works. But it's considered a curiousity unless, of course, there's an acute emergency like strikes, boycotts. Has happened before.

18. Nov 17, 2006

### brewnog

Andre, I understand how it's made! (An old Diesel engine would in fact be quite happy running on ordinary vegetable oil). However, I also understand how critical fuel quality is for the correct operation of the common rail system in your Pug; a 2 single micron contaminant could knacker the seats of an injector and ruin your engine.

Before people start making their own biodiesel for use in modern vehicles, they really need to appreciate the importance of cleanliness and quality of the fuel.

19. Nov 17, 2006

### Mk

Andre's car looks very cool! It is called a pug? Couldn't they get a better name?... a more... horsepowery name?

20. Nov 17, 2006

### Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
The biodiesel industry in the US is far beyond backyard brew kits. ASTM standards are already in effect.

21. Nov 17, 2006

### brewnog

I realise that biodiesel goes way beyond homebrew kits; I was more answering andre's post there.

What I'm concerned about is the relative lack of Diesel infrastructure and existing Diesel cars in the US.

Ivan, you know this, but if you see a new car bigger than a supermini in the UK or mainland Europe, the chances are that it's a Diesel. It's going to be much easier to convert this market to biodiesel (in fact it's already happening; many motorists don't even notice when they fill up their car with a biodiesel blend) than the US. This is my main worry!

22. Nov 17, 2006

### Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Yes, rightly so, the early diesel cars gained a bad reputation here in the US. They were loud, smokey, and gutless. In fact, I recall having to help push a guy and his [then new] 70's era diesel Mercedes up our driveway. The hill was too steep; which was really pathetic because my Datsun 1600 could make it okay.

It will take some time, but I'm a total convert, and many others will be soon. We are at a price level now such that every time we see the price of crude spike, there will be a surge in alternative fuels and alternative vehicle sales. Only in recent months and for the first time ever, biodiesel has been competitive with petrodiesel. It seems that ~$3 per gallon is the breaking point. 23. Nov 18, 2006 ### Ivan Seeking Staff Emeritus http://www.dieselforum.org/meet-clean-diesel/what-is-clean-diesel/what-is-biodiesel/ 24. Nov 19, 2006 ### brewnog Go Ivan! Spread the word amongst your kin! 25. Nov 19, 2006 ### Ivan Seeking Staff Emeritus It's the oddest thing: Whenever I ask someone if they would rather keep the$500,000,000,000 a year here - in the US economy - all while creating new industry, they always say yes.

The only objection ever noted came from the CEO of Shell Oil [Of course I didn't personally ask him. Tim Russert did].