Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Here is a nice service coming online.

...NearBio (www.nearbio.com) enables mobile phone users (and computer users) to find the nearest biodiesel fueling locations based on city, zip code, or GPS coordinates. The comprehensive national database of over 1000 individually verified locations is updated daily and is complete with driving directions, hours, payment options, and blend information (where available). The website’s graphical map of nationwide locations is the first of its kind, using a color-coded icon for each pump location to identify the specific blend available. [continued]
http://www.nearbio.com/nearbio/index.shtml

brewnog
Gold Member
Excellent!

Now where in the USA do you buy Diesel cars....?!

Yeah -- especially at the cost of my "prevandalized" beater?

"prevandalized" = The then-boyfriend's car was considered totalled by his insurance company after the vandalization (mostly cosmetic); I bought it from them (at totalled cost... cheap) and fixed it up (lights, mirrors and a window) because the engine was a great 6-cylinder one (my car was down to two cylinders while I was living in a mountainous region). It runs great, but it's a glued and stitched "frankenkar"... and a midwestern crap car to boot (Pontiac Bonneville -- yeah, what can I say, he was a "Michigan boy"? :!!) ).

Although I do lust after old rusty diesel trucks. Maybe I'll get one of those to save on fuel costs and help the environment.

brewnog
Gold Member
It's debatable whether a rusty old Diesel truck would be helping the environment.

Make it in your garage :) The university I attend offers yearly clinics on how to home-brew biodiesel in your own garage.

Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
brewnog said:
It's debatable whether a rusty old Diesel truck would be helping the environment.

Biodiesel is carbon neutral.

The diesels are either here or coming.

The Axis of Diesel
Mercedes, GM and even Honda, are betting on a new breed of green diesels. The goal? To leave hybrids in the dust.

Fortune magazine) -- As night fell over the 24 Hours of LeMans this summer, spectators at France's prestigious endurance race detected a pattern. While competitors entered the pits to refuel, a sleek pair of Audi R10s kept stealing laps around the 13.7-kilometer track. Already the fastest cars on the course, and eerily quiet thanks to a unique emissions filter, the Audis were also proving the most fuel-efficient. When the checkered flag flew, the Audi had made history as the first diesel car to win a major international race.

Diesel isn't just changing LeMans. Thanks to technological breakthroughs, at least six automakers - starting with Mercedes on Oct. 16, Jeep in early 2007, and eventually even hybrid pioneer Honda - will be launching a fleet of New Age diesels. They promise to boost fuel economy by 25% to 40%, with huge torque and turbochargers to deliver the power American drivers crave. [continued]
http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/04/autos/fortune_diesels.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2006100409

And diesel hybrids are coming as well.
Honda Plans Diesel Engine and 65-mpg Hybrid for U.S.

DETROIT — Honda Motor Co. says it might be able to build hybrid vehicles that get 65 miles per gallon — 30-percent better mileage than the company's 2006 Civic hybrid — with the help of a high-tech compression-ignition gasoline engine, according to The Wall Street Journal.

At the same time, the company is developing new diesel engines for its larger vehicles in the U.S., says Automotive News. [continued]
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107691 [Broken]

Last edited by a moderator:
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Btw, be sure to check out the map on the first page linked [in the first post].

It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas.

Beeza said:
Make it in your garage :) The university I attend offers yearly clinics on how to home-brew biodiesel in your own garage.

If one is using that much grease in one's kitchen (or are THAT friendly with the donut-shop), :uhh: one should perhaps consider using self-powered forms of transportation.

Actually, my grad school institution offered these workshops too -- and used biodiesel in the vehicles on campus. Now for me to get that biodiesel-guzzling old rust-heap, right?

Ivan Seeking said:
Btw, be sure to check out the map on the first page linked [in the first post].

I'm pleased at the density of stations in the midwest. Of course -- it is car country.. and farming country. Of course, as I blast through this weekend during an interstate relocation, it is in the gas-guzzling prevandalized Bonneville, which can't use fry-based fuel.

Bio-diesel smells like french fries and it's fun to make. But it should be considered a posteriority when doing some quantification of available insolation in watt/m2 and the final capture of that energy in vegetable oil/ diesel. Because the law of preservation of problems may get you here:

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=605&id=1656212006 [Broken]

Why relentless green drive may end up costing us the earth
JOHN STEWART

SPRING in Malaysia is even more silent than it was when I reported how the indigenous jungle is being destroyed to provide palm oil for the Soil Association's "environmentally-friendly" pesticide soft soap.

More great swathes of the eco-system are being replaced by oil palms to supply Europe with the biodiesel it must have by next year to comply with Directive 2003/30/EC requiring 5 per cent of road fuel to come from biological sources. ...cont'd

But it's fun to recycle the waste fry oil of the fast food industry.

My cute little diesel car (1.6HDI):

http://www.autogaleria.pl/fotografie/peugeot/peugeot_207_2006_02.jpg [Broken]

runs 1 litre on 22 kilometres is about 1 gallon to 52 miles.

Last edited by a moderator:
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Andre, the used cooking oil is only a small fraction of production.

Don't worry, you'll find somewhere to sell your N. Sea oil.

Last edited:
brewnog
Gold Member
Andre, don't even THINK about putting cooking oil in the Pug!

Ivan, I'm aware that B100 is carbon neutral, I'm more concerned about NOx emissions when using it in older (ie pre EU Stage IV / EPA Tier 4) engines. Don't get me wrong, I'm completely in favour of biodiesel, but I would be hesitant to pin all environmental hopes on its use!

We're starting to see biodiesel and bioethanol supplemented fuels quite commonly in the UK now, and across Europe too I believe.

Astronuc
Staff Emeritus
Speaking of the Audi TDI
At the 1989 Frankfurt Motor Show, Audi presented the world’s first diesel engine with direct injection and complete electronic engine management for use in passenger cars – a five-cylinder TDI producing 120 hp and 265 Newton metres torque. It was the birth of the revolutionary TDI technology which helped the diesel to change its image: Slow, loud and uncultivated were superseded by agile, comfortable and extremely economical. The Audi TDI brought the opposites of sporting-dynamic and long-range through low consumption in an emotional way down to a common denominator, without neglecting the diesel’s exceptional reputation: its long-life.

Today every second Audi is delivered with a TDI engine – the outlook is bright. Audi has constantly set new technical standards during the development of the TDI engines over the last 16-years. The current highlight is the Audi V8 4.2 TDI quattro with 326 hp and 650 Newton metres torque – one of the most powerful compression ignition engines found in a production limousine – and all this whilst complying with the EU 4 emission limits and with an average fuel consumption of 9.4 litres per 100 kilometres.
http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/experience/motorsport/Audi_R10_TDI/TDI_Power_for_racing.html [Broken]

http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/experience/motorsport/Audi_R10_TDI/The_Audi_R10_TDI.html [Broken]

http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/experience/motorsport/Audi_R10_TDI/24_Hours_Le_Mans.html [Broken]

The media spoke of a “silent revolution” – hinting at the fact that the powerful 650 hp V12 engine propelling the R10 TDI can hardly be heard.
http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/experience/motorsport/Audi_R10_TDI/Audi_in_ALMS.html [Broken]

Last edited by a moderator:
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
brewnog said:
Ivan, I'm aware that B100 is carbon neutral, I'm more concerned about NOx emissions when using it in older (ie pre EU Stage IV / EPA Tier 4) engines. Don't get me wrong, I'm completely in favour of biodiesel, but I would be hesitant to pin all environmental hopes on its use!

Ah, the NOXs have been an issue. I don't see biodiesel [and in particular biodiesel from algae] as the end all energy and environmental solution. However, I do see it as, first, a transitional technology to a hydrogen economy, and perhaps more importantly these days, a direct path to energy independence. In the US, the argument for alternative fuels is now at least as much a matter of national security as it is environmental issue. It is also an economic issue. This will be a huge plus for the US economy. IIRC, we import about half a trillion dollars worth of crude each year. Now we can keep this money at home.

Even the production of biodiesel from regular seed crops is about thirty times more efficient than the production of ethanol from corn. The yeilds from algae are staggering.

brewnog
Gold Member
Hooray!

Ivan, if you could get just 10% of Americans to understand why Diesel (let alone biodiesel) is a clear advance forwards, then I'd cook you a nice hot dinner every day for the rest of your life!

NOx would be an issue with clattery old IDI low pressure sod-the-emissions engines, but we have the technology now to all but eliminate it in modern CI engines.

Half of all cars now sold in Europe are Diesels, why is the US not right behind us?! Where did my thread about this go?!

You dont have diesel cars in the States?

brewnog said:
Andre, don't even THINK about putting cooking oil in the Pug!

Don't worry, this is how it works. But it's considered a curiousity unless, of course, there's an acute emergency like strikes, boycotts. Has happened before.

brewnog
Gold Member
Andre, I understand how it's made! (An old Diesel engine would in fact be quite happy running on ordinary vegetable oil). However, I also understand how critical fuel quality is for the correct operation of the common rail system in your Pug; a 2 single micron contaminant could knacker the seats of an injector and ruin your engine.

Before people start making their own biodiesel for use in modern vehicles, they really need to appreciate the importance of cleanliness and quality of the fuel.

Andre's car looks very cool! It is called a pug? Couldn't they get a better name?... a more... horsepowery name?

Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
brewnog said:
Before people start making their own biodiesel for use in modern vehicles, they really need to appreciate the importance of cleanliness and quality of the fuel.

The biodiesel industry in the US is far beyond backyard brew kits. ASTM standards are already in effect.

brewnog
Gold Member
Ivan Seeking said:
The biodiesel industry in the US is far beyond backyard brew kits. ASTM standards are already in effect.

I realise that biodiesel goes way beyond homebrew kits; I was more answering andre's post there.

What I'm concerned about is the relative lack of Diesel infrastructure and existing Diesel cars in the US.

Ivan, you know this, but if you see a new car bigger than a supermini in the UK or mainland Europe, the chances are that it's a Diesel. It's going to be much easier to convert this market to biodiesel (in fact it's already happening; many motorists don't even notice when they fill up their car with a biodiesel blend) than the US. This is my main worry!

Staff Emeritus
It will take some time, but I'm a total convert, and many others will be soon. We are at a price level now such that every time we see the price of crude spike, there will be a surge in alternative fuels and alternative vehicle sales. Only in recent months and for the first time ever, biodiesel has been competitive with petrodiesel. It seems that ~$3 per gallon is the breaking point. Staff Emeritus Science Advisor Gold Member What about used vegetable oils from fast-food restaurants or straight vegetable oils – can those be used in diesel cars or trucks? Use of recycled cooking oil or other animal fats that have not undergone the transesterification process are not biodiesel and are not recommended for many reasons including the unknown performance and engine impacts, uncertain fuel quality, and variability in oil types and purity. While these fuels and blends may work in a diesel engine, the vehicle is unlikely to perform to manufacturers’ specifications and may be prone to fuel injector plugging; fuel pump, tank and pipeline clogging; cold weather freezing; and other problems. Can biodiesel help the United States improve its dependence on foreign oil? In theory the answer is yes. According to the National Biodiesel Board, current annual biodiesel production capacity is at 395 million gallons, or approximately 1% of annual on-road petroleum diesel use in the United States. At this level of production, there is not enough biodiesel to support a national B2 standard, but biodiesel production is growing exponentially and every bit helps reduce dependence on foreign oil. http://www.dieselforum.org/meet-clean-diesel/what-is-clean-diesel/what-is-biodiesel/ brewnog Science Advisor Gold Member Go Ivan! Spread the word amongst your kin! Staff Emeritus Science Advisor Gold Member brewnog said: Go Ivan! Spread the word amongst your kin! It's the oddest thing: Whenever I ask someone if they would rather keep the$500,000,000,000 a year here - in the US economy - all while creating new industry, they always say yes.