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Who won israel vs gaza ?

  1. Jan 17, 2009 #1
    who won israel vs gaza ??

    Peace upon u

    after 22 days of war on not clear targets .. israel is thinking of "ceasefire"

    what does this mean in fact ??

    rockets had not been stopped .. gaza had not been reached yet .. targetting schools, UN establishments, food and fuel stores killing over that 1200 human 30% are children , wounding over than 5200 human 50% are children and women .. no more life no place safe in Gaza .. and then talking about vectory ??

    i'll describe the situation from my point view what israel did in fact is just raising the popularity of hamas and inhancing hate to israel all over the world .. hamas is not a building .. it's an ideology of resisting the ocupation and war crimes according .. this is hamas in fact .. yesterday i heard that over that 50 million syrian pound had been given to hamas by people inside syria (in cash) .. does it say that the target of destroying hamas had failed ??



    i'll try to send u some pix of what i see in Damascus streets .. no one can walk without recognizing the massive popularity of what so called troops of resistance ..

    but my question is : who u think did really win this battle ??

    my best wishes
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2009
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 17, 2009 #2
    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    No one.
     
  4. Jan 17, 2009 #3
    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    I agree Dadga, no one wins in war.
     
  5. Jan 17, 2009 #4
    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    i agree too .. coz i think that hamas lost a lot of blood .. and as it's a great part of palestinian population .. it cares a lot about this thing .. that's what makes me say .. that the massive loss in blood wich is catasrophical makes hamas think that this war was very costy ..

    but in the other hand israel won nothing .. just killing innocent people as the majority of people see (even jewesh)
     
  6. Jan 17, 2009 #5

    russ_watters

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    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    "No one wins in war" is a naive platitude and certainly not generally true.

    In the Gaza war, it is too soon to tell who is going to win. Hamas is in it for concessions from Israel about their borders, so if you see them in the cease-fire agreement, that's how you know they won. Israel is in it for a halt to the rocket and mortar attacks, so if they stop, Israel won.
     
  7. Jan 17, 2009 #6
    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    what about the huge number of innocent victims ??

    what about the population of palestinian that had increased ...
     
  8. Jan 17, 2009 #7

    Astronuc

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    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    In a sense, Russ is correct.

    Hamas will win if Israel gives some concessions, although Hamas lost some top leaders. Hamas wins if the retain control of Gaza.

    Israel wins if they reduce or mitigate the rocket attacks.


    The Palestinians/Gazans civilians loose. They got massive destruction and many deaths as the IDF/military and Hamas fighters went at each other. :frown:
     
  9. Jan 17, 2009 #8
    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent".
    This is a quote by Salvor Hardin, a character in Isaac Asimov's Foundation. Salvor Hardin uses this saying to mean that violence is such a useless option that only the incompetent would use it, and even they would only use it as their last resort. He feels that the incompetent are eventually forced to resort to violence because a better solution remains outside of their grasp.

    No one won in that continuing conflict.
     
  10. Jan 17, 2009 #9

    Evo

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    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    That is solely the fault of Hamas, something that for some reason you fail to see. Hamas attacked Israel. It is ridiculous to think that Israel would not retailiate. And saying "oh, but innocent people got killed". Name a war in which innocent people did not get kiled. Then the nonsnese "oh, But Israel killed more palestinians than Hamas killed Israelis. So? This surprises anyone? Show me where is says that waring countries must be equal in casualties or damage. This is beyond naive, it's ridiculous.

    Not to mention that Hamas has declared that they will not honor the proposed cease fire, they stated that they will continue to attack. Until the Palestinians oust Hamas, they have no one to blame but themselves for the retaliation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2009
  11. Jan 17, 2009 #10

    Hurkyl

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    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    Wait -- you're arguing that Israel and Gaza are both incompetent, and thus war is the best solution available to them?
     
  12. Jan 17, 2009 #11

    tiny-tim

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    Peace upon u too, ALYAZAN! :smile:

    The battle isn't finished yet, so the question is really who will win the battle?

    If, after Israel stops, the Palestinians fire just one rocket into Israel,

    then Hamas will have won …

    it will have established the right to continue trying to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible.
     
  13. Jan 17, 2009 #12
    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??


    Your are saying that thinking that is the logical reaction Israel can do, but from the factual events of this war Israel is punishing the Palestinian people, the white phosphorous bombs they use (which is internationally banned)shows a target-less bombard that only make Palestinian suffer for just being there believing in their dream of having their own country tell come true!


    It is true they loose some of their leaders, but you missed that about -at least- one death occurs in each family , this will be a drive to those who still alive to get revenge meaning the popularity of Hamas will rise and get enlarged. this is not a solution, and I doubt they are looking for one, it seems like a seasonal thing that they like to do, search in the past of [it]!!
     
  14. Jan 17, 2009 #13

    Evo

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    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    Which is why Hamas needs to be ousted, they are waging war on Israel without any concern for civilians. Until they stop launching missiles into Israel, they are responsible for any harm that comes to Palestinians as a result.
     
  15. Jan 17, 2009 #14

    Hurkyl

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    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    I assume your following assertions are meant to support this interpretation -- so if your assertions do not hold up, your interpretation is unjustified.

    Reference, please? A quick google search suggests that "is internationally banned" is a misleading, if not outright false statement. (I would be mildly interested in seeing a reference that they use such bombs as well)

    How? The phrasing of your post indicates that you think "using white phosphorous bombs" proves this point, but I see no evident connection between the two.

    :confused: Are we actually talking about the same conflict?
     
  16. Jan 17, 2009 #15
    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    Note that the military and tanks are still present during this (ceasefire) which to Gazans not with the presence of the enemy on their land
     
  17. Jan 17, 2009 #16

    russ_watters

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    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    They lost and they're not even playing the game. Sux to be them, but if their leaders cared more (or they did a better job picking their leaders), they wouldn't be in this mess.
     
  18. Jan 17, 2009 #17

    russ_watters

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    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    Yes, that's the same naive platitude. 'Violence never solves anything' is just silly there is very little that irritates me more than such naive pie-in-the-sky rhetorical nonsense. It most certainly does solve a lot of problems. It solved Hitler.

    Read some Robert Heinlein instead. "'naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor"
     
  19. Jan 17, 2009 #18
    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    ? Who won in what war when let's go through the whole of history? What wars were considered wins and why? Seems like you are the one making platitudes.
     
  20. Jan 17, 2009 #19

    russ_watters

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    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    That's wrong on several levels:

    1. There is no such thing as a white phosphorus "bomb".
    2. There are white phosphorus shells, which are used for the smoke generated to obscure troop movement.
    3. They are not internationally banned.
    4. The fact that Israel has gone to great lengths to warn the civilians about impending attacks shows they are cognizant of the risk of civilian casualties and are endeavoring to avoid them.
     
  21. Jan 17, 2009 #20
    Re: who won israel vs gaza ??

    Platitudes never solve anything, and neither does moral equivocation.

    Heinlein is a good author he is not however a God of philosophy any more than Dawkins is.
     
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