Who's at fault in an illegal transaction, donor or recipient?

[Werg22]

My landlord came to pick the rent money this week end. I asked him for his account number so I could transfer him the money but he told me that he didn't have one (which was obviously a lie). I didn't think much of it and the next day I gave him the money in cash, with intentionally adding a $5 extra in there (the rest was in $10's and $20's). I put the $5 on top so it was unmissable. He counted the money and told me everything was there. That revealed him dishonest once again since it's impossible he had counted the right amount of money with the $5 in there, even had he miscounted the number of 10's or the number of 20's. And then I realized: he wants me to pay in cash so he can avoid taxation over the amount. I am kind of ticked off by the fact and now I'm ambivalent as to what I should do. Report him? I'd have to find alternative housing accommodation first. I'm also unsure; who's at fault, him or the both of us?

 

[lisab]

I had a landlord years ago who would never give me a receipt. He was very loose with things like tennent's agreements, as well. After I moved in, I kept asking about coming by to sign one, but he would always make some excuse why he couldn't do it then.

I lived there for a year before I learned he was completely illiterate. Could this be the case with your landlord?

But if you're right about him, I don't think it's your responsibility to turn him into the authorities based on a hunch. (You don't, after all, have any hard proof of law breaking.) Just keep an eye on him -- he has the key to your apartment, you know.

 

[Poop-Loops]

You gave him an extra $5. He might have thought it was a tip.

After all, how stupid does one have to be to leave an extra $5 amidst a bunch of $10's and $20's and not notice it?

 

[hypatia]

You can leave a tip with the IRS without giving your name, same goes with the state and city tax boards. Just send a letter with the guys name, address and your thoughts of his tax evasion.

 

[Cyrus]

Are you renting the room from someone? What do you care if he avoids taxes? I think that's being a bit of a << marginal noun edited out by berkeman >> if he's giving you cheap rent.

 

[Kurdt]

Just because he prefers to accept cash I don't think you can leap to the conclusion that he's avoiding paying tax. Many people accept and still pay their taxes. He possibly didn't want to give account details in case you used them dishonestly.

As for counting the money he may have thought the extra five dollars was an apology for being a day late or there are a multitude of other reasons.

If you're really worried write a cheque next time.

 

[Werg22]

Are you renting the room from someone? What do you care if he avoids taxes? I think that's being a bit of a dickwad if he's giving you cheap rent.

It's not cheap at all.

Just because he prefers to accept cash I don't think you can leap to the conclusion that he's avoiding paying tax. Many people accept and still pay their taxes. He possibly didn't want to give account details in case you used them dishonestly.

As for counting the money he may have thought the extra five dollars was an apology for being a day late or there are a multitude of other reasons.

If you're really worried write a cheque next time.

The question I asked him was "Is that [amount of money I pay for rent]?", to which he answered yes. I thought this through, I'm not stupid. He charges $50 extra for cheques, which strengthens my suspicions.

 

[kev1829]

Are you renting the room from someone? What do you care if he avoids taxes? I think that's being a bit of a << marginal noun edited out by berkeman >> if he's giving you cheap rent.

I agree. If you are single, I hope you make good money so you will quickly learn how much of a pleasure it is to pay taxes.

 

[TVP45]

In all the states I have lived in, neither of you has broken the law. You paid him the rent in legal currency. He accepted it. Use checks.

I just saw your next post and you said "cheque" causing me to believe you don't live in the US. I know nothing about other countries. Is it legal to charge for accepting a check? Do you have anything comparable to a landlord tenant law as we do here? Do you have a legal advisor (perhaps off-campus housing) at your university?

 

[Werg22]

^^^

Yes it's legal, as far as I know. It's his property, I have to live on his terms. I currently reside in Alberta, Canada (I'm on a coop term). Cyrus, not only is what you're saying untenable, he's neglecting his duties as a citizen. Tax fraud is no joke.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Once, after I gave notice at my job, I was paid my last pay in cash. My boss wrote me a signed note saying that all the withholding had been taken from the amount, but that he was not going to tell the IRS about it. Bottom line, he intended to cheat the IRS, said so in writing, and had no intention of sharing the loot with me. I put away the note and then explained the situation to him in pretty much those terms. He informed the IRS.

 

[EnumaElish]

Many people have an irrational fear of giving out their account numbers as if that's all the information anyone needs to transfer all of their savings to their own account.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Many people have an irrational fear of giving out their account numbers as if that's all the information anyone needs to transfer all of their savings to their own account.

When I pay by check, I don't need the other guy's account number. What gives?

 

[Kurdt]

Many large companies charge extra for payment by cheque as well. I think its due to the extra time and resources it takes to process them.

 

[Werg22]

So I should give him the benefit of the doubt? Fine, I don't want to throw false accusations around. I'll ask him for a receipt as soon as I see him - that will undoubtedly reveal what he's up to.

 

[BobG]

So I should give him the benefit of the doubt? Fine, I don't want to throw false accusations around. I'll ask him for a receipt as soon as I see him - that will undoubtedly reveal what he's up to.

Wow! You should definitely get a receipt at the time of payment if you're paying cash. How can you prove you've paid if he gets confused about who gave him the money or whether anyone gave him any money at all?

As far as taxes, I don't see how taking rent in cash would be any different than taking cash payments at a store.

 

[Moonbear]

If you're paying rent in cash, you should be getting a receipt at the time you hand over the cash, not waiting a few days. Otherwise, it's your word against his that you've paid...he could turn around and sue you for unpaid rent and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on not to have to pay twice. A lot of slumlords near universities take advantage of students they think (often correctly) are too naive about their rights as tenants to argue with them. Does Canada have the equivalent of money orders? For the recipient, they work like cash (i.e., no fears of a check bouncing...another reason some won't accept checks, or might ask you to pay extra by check), but for the payor, you have a receipt attached that you keep, so proof you paid.

I'm not sure what Canadian law is, but in the US, the security deposit you put on an apartment MUST be kept in an escrow account, so any landlord who requires a security deposit has to have a bank account for that at least.

I wouldn't worry about reporting him for taxes...leave that up to the government...but I would worry about keeping receipts for yourself.

 

[TVP45]

If you get a receipt, that's all you need. Be happy and don't look for trouble.

 

[EnumaElish]

When I pay by check, I don't need the other guy's account number.

Sure; but now he has your number (on the check)

What gives?

I was responding to the OP's comment "I asked him for his account number so I could transfer him the money but he told me that he didn't one"

 

[Danger]

What city/town, Werg? I don't divulge my specific town because it would positively identify me, and I understand if you take the same stance. I'm near Calgary.
By the way, our landlady gave us 6 months notice, and an apology, when she had to raise our rent by $25/month to cover utility costs. We don't get receipts, but there are bank records of our direct deposits into her account.

 

[lisab]

I don't divulge my specific town because it would positively identify me...

Are you in a town with population = 1 ?

 

[Cyrus]

^^^

Yes it's legal, as far as I know. It's his property, I have to live on his terms. I currently reside in Alberta, Canada (I'm on a coop term). Cyrus, not only is what you're saying untenable, he's neglecting his duties as a citizen. Tax fraud is no joke.

If he is renting out a room to you, its no big deal. I would do the same. If he's renting the entire house out, that's a different story. He already pays property tax, as in Vagas, the house always wins (House= Government). I would personally give the government as little as I possibly could.

 

[Moonbear]

Are you in a town with population = 1 ?

It IS Alberta...you never know.

 

[Danger]

Are you in a town with population = 1 ?

Population >1... but I'm somewhat notorious in these parts.

It IS Alberta...you never know.

Hush, you, Moonbroad. :tongue:
Calgary is small by Yankee standards, but it does have over 1,000,000 residents.

 

[Werg22]

So I was mistaken in not asking for a receipt immediately upon payment. It's the first time I handle rent payments, so it's a novice's mistake - I'll ask him as soon as I see him. By the way, I'm in Lethbridge.

 

[Danger]

Well, it's about 45 years since I've been in 'Bridge, but it was a nice place then. I remember that when we stopped for gas, my dad bought me a yellow plastic road-grader. I seem to have misplaced it somewhere, but it was one of my favourite toys for years.
Tell your guy 'no receipt, no payment'.

 

[Werg22]

Well, it's a bit too late for this month.

 

[Danger]

Well, it's a bit too late for this month.

I realize that, but one must look to the future.

 

[NeoDevin]

It's his property, I have to live on his terms. I currently reside in Alberta, Canada (I'm on a coop term).

This is absolutely not true, the landlord and tenant act was put in place to prevent such a situation. If you are unsure of your rights as a tenant, or his responsibilities as a landlord, you can contact the (Edmonton) Landlord and Tenant Advisory Board. I don't have the numbers for anywhere else, but they should be able to help you out (or at least direct you to who can).

Never assume you have to live on his terms, you have to live by the terms set forth in the landlord and tenant act, they supercede the wording/lack of wording of any particular (residential) lease agreement in Alberta. It is very specific what landlords are and aren't allowed to do. It specifies the amount of notice required by the landlord before rent increase (3 months if I remember right), the notice required by the landlord/tenant to break a fixed term lease (3 months), and notice required before a landlord enters your premises (24 hours), etc. and so one. In Alberta, the actual lease agreement is (almost) irrelevant, as most of the details on the standard forms are just repetitions of the act. Even if the agreement to lease/rent was strictly verbal, it is still bound by the act.

I am in Edmonton, and my former landlord tried to screw me over royally, these guys helped me out, by clarifying what I could and couldn't do. My landlord tried to charge me about $2,000 for `damages' (there before I moved in), lease break (end of fixed term lease), etc. Turns out all they could actually charge me for was steam cleaning, and that was about $50 bucks. I probably could have fought that too, given that I had cleaned the carpets myself, but it didn't seem worth the time.

Landlord and Tenant Advisory Board


This City of Edmonton agency works on the premise that if people on both sides of the landlord-tenant relationship are well informed about their rights and obligations, they rarely get into confrontations.

If you are either a tenant or a landlord of a residential property within the City of Edmonton boundaries, you’re on the right page.

The Landlord and Tenant Advisory Board’s services include:

Accurate advice and information
Regular and customized workshops for tenants, owner-investors, landlords, property managers, resident managers and outreach workers
Cost-effective, non-confrontational dispute resolution
Sale of forms (tenancy agreement, inspection report)




Additional Information
Landlord and Tenant Advisory Board Forms Price List (48 kb)


For more information contact
Landlord and Tenant Advisory Board
Community Services
City of Edmonton
Nova Plaza
8904 - 118 Avenue
Edmonton AB T5B 0T6

24-hr Automated Information Line
Phone: (780) 496-5959. Select option 2.

Advice Line
Phone: (780) 496-5959. Select option 4.
Open Monday-Thursday, 8:30 AM-4:15 PM and Friday, 8:30 AM-3 PM.

Office Hours: Monday-Thursday, 8:30 AM-4:30 PM and Friday, 8:30 AM-3 PM

From http://www.edmonton.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_267_211_0_43/http%3B/CMSServer/COEWeb/community+and+people+services/housing+services/landlordandtenantadvisoryboard.htm" .

If you contact them, and find out your landlord is doing something wrong, I would recommend contacting a lawyer before proceeding.

 

[Danger]

Wow! Am I ever glad that we have the landlady that we do! She felt terrible about having to kick us up from $625 to $650 for our 2-bedroom unit.
She also, by the way, has given all of her tenants really nice X-mas presents every year. (Large ceramic/LED/plastic needle tree 2 years ago, dancing Santa last year, and a big box of gourmet dessert biscuits this year.) Too bad that she's married. (Oops... hang on a sec... so am I... :uhh:
bummer.)

 

[NeoDevin]

Yeah, I've had some good ones as well as some bad ones too