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Why all the locking

  1. Jun 22, 2007 #1
    this whole forum and politics esp has far more overmoderation
    then any other forum I visit
    why cannot the free flow of ideas take place here
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 22, 2007 #2

    Moonbear

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  4. Jun 22, 2007 #3
    your standards need baddly to be revised

    I semi understand the anti crackpot bit
    but think any form of censorship is always WRONG
    even those with the best of intent

    a better idea is to show why the crackpots are WRONG
    useing their mistaken ideas to learn the true facts

    religion in the post 9-11 era needs open and frank debate not censorship too
    as we were attacked by believers at the same time our home grown believers
    have stolen our goverment and are moving our freedoms FROM the rule of law to WE SAY SO LAND

    and a hint of hot feeling saddly is enuff to lock far tooo many threads here
    far too often
     
  5. Jun 22, 2007 #4
    but its a political forum in this case.

    i agree though, i don't think the rules for a forum of physics are the best for a political discussion.

    for example a person can speculate on the intentions of bush or putin regarding the missile shield but if the person cant link complete evidence for the assertion then it is in the same realm is someone trying to seriously debate "overt crackpottery" in that there is zero scientific evidence involved with the debate. history is a big part of politics but aside from debating historical facts, almost anything about politics could be locked because it doesn't deal in solid facts.
     
  6. Jun 22, 2007 #5

    Hurkyl

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    Empirical evidence and member testimony indicates that our standards are more than adequate for our purposes. What evidence do you have for your assertion?

    We disagree.

    The primary prerequisite for being a crackpot is a refusal to "learn the true facts".

    And the appropriate place for this debate is a physics forum? :confused:

    I assert your assessment is inaccurate.

    (edit: I interpreted your statement as accusing the mentors of locking threads when they get angry. I withdraw my statement if my interpretation is incorrect.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2007
  7. Jun 22, 2007 #6
     
  8. Jun 22, 2007 #7

    Moonbear

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    We disagree, and will adhere to them. Time has demonstrated they serve us well.

    Then this is probabably not the best site for you to participate, because we will continue to enforce the guidelines to which all members agree to adhere to by posting here. If you don't agree to the guidelines, don't post.

    We tried that approach, and found that, as Hurkyl mentioned already, the crackpots have no interest in true facts or learning where their ideas are mistaken. They are zealots.

    There are vast numbers of sites on the internet where you can post those thoughts and ideas, or even set up your own if you have the inclination. This is NOT the place for it.

    Because experience tells us that "hint" of hot feeling, which is generally far more than a hint when we decide to lock a thread, quickly degenerates into flaming and personal attacks, and we prefer to keep discussion here civil. If you can't remain civil, again, this is likely not the right place for you to air your thoughts.
     
  9. Jun 22, 2007 #8

    Moonbear

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    Which is not the correct place to air a complaint about how the forum is run.

    The primary goal of the site is science education. There is an additional set of guidelines within the P&WA forum, which again, if people post there, they are agreeing to follow.
     
  10. Jun 23, 2007 #9
    i dont mean to sound hostile. i think the rules you guys have set up here are great for broadening the understanding of physics. i just find that these same rules can be used in a way that prevents some political discussions and opinions from being fully explored.


    i agree that the poltical and world affairs forum is not the best place to talk about how moderators do their thing. what i was refering too though was that hurkyl's comment "And the appropriate place for this debate is a physics forum" did not apply to the sentence he was quoting, since "religion in the post 9-11 era needs open and frank debate" was not being debated in a physics forum.



    i understand that the threads that are being locked violate the agreement, but i dont think this specific agreement is the best suited for a political forum.
     
  11. Jun 23, 2007 #10
    The only thing I don't like is that EVO ALWAYS GETS THE LAST WORD IN!
    :)
     
  12. Jun 23, 2007 #11

    Danger

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    I tend to avoid issues like this, but since I'm incredibly drunk at the moment, I'm going to weigh in.
    To start with, as Moonbear pointed out, the purpose of this site is to educate people in various fields of science. And make no mistake about this... you will never run across such a collection of world-class experts in any scientific field as you have here.
    And more to the point, these are experts who are freely giving of their time and knowledge in order to help others. A lot of them could easily charge several thousand dollars for a lecture, the essence of which they boil down here for free. Not only just for free, but you'll note that most of them also are cited as 'contributors', which means that they are paying for the priveledge of educating people. (I'm a contributor, but in this case I am paying for the priveledge of being educated by these people. It's a lot cheaper than going to university, and a lot easier since I never finished high-school.)
    I must admit that I was a tad flummoxed by the 'Politics and World Affairs' section even existing, until I stopped to think about it. Political Science is still science, and scientifically minded people will gravitate to a good debate. The point of that, though, is debate, not denigrate or 'flame' the opposition.
    When a discussion gets to the point of incivility, it's time to pull the plug.
    I'm blaming any typos on the beer, so am not going to edit myself.
     
  13. Jun 23, 2007 #12

    Moonbear

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    Yes, they may, but those are not the primary purpose of this site. We are not, first and foremost, a political discussion site, we are a science discussion site. We limit the political discussions, because as has been discussed extensively in the past, the mentors are here first to help guide the science discussions, and we are not going to waste a lot of our time and efforts babysitting political topics that have a long history of spiraling out of control. There are numerous places on the internet dedicated to nothing but political discussion. We are not one of them. We have discussed eliminating the P&WA forum entirely, but as scientific progress is fully intertwined with politics, both in terms of things like federal funding for science and legislation limiting what can and can't be done (i.e., Bush's current veto of the latest bill on stem cell research, or the appropriations bill from the House that increases NIH's funding BELOW the inflation rate for scientific research, effectively cutting funding AGAIN, or energy policy, or the laws governing patenting of research discoveries, etc.), it was decided that within very narrow guidelines, the forum would remain and discussion would be permitted. So, for those topics that directly affect science and scientists, and for some other topics that interest our membership and don't get overly heated, we have kept the forum open. For those topics that frequently get out of hand, create hard feelings among the members, have required repeated mentor intervention in the past, and overall require a lot of babysitting efforts (and yes, for many of the prohibited topics, it's no longer mentoring but plain old babysitting of people who can't have a rational adult discussion), we are not wasting our time. We are not prohibiting you from having those discussions, we are prohibiting you from having those discussions HERE. As the bartender would say, "Take it outside."

    As we have stated many times before, this site is not meant to be everything to everyone. We have determined what it is that we can do best, and stick within that scope so that we can maintain a high quality forum for our purpose.

    As for the complaint that Evo gets the last word in, she is the mentor who has taken on the majority of the burden of moderating that forum. As such, when she locks a thread, it is necessary to indicate the reason for the lock, so yes, she will have the last post. If she locked the thread without any comment, then people would be in here griping that there's never any explanation given for the lock. You can't have it both ways.
     
  14. Jun 23, 2007 #13

    Evo

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    This is ridiculous, the OP's statement is completely baseless. Going back to to May 3rd, out of 75 threads in P&WA, only three were locked, and two of them violated religious discussion guidelines. Religious "discussions" quickly turn to religious "bashing" and the thread deteriorates into insults and gets locked.

    The Politics & World Affairs forum has it's own unique guidelines addressing issues relevant to that forum.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2007
  15. Jun 23, 2007 #14

    radou

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    Wow, Danger. No typos. You're the man! :cool:

    Actually, I must say I like it, because seeing some recent threads getting locked down almost turned me on. :biggrin:
     
  16. Jun 23, 2007 #15

    Evo

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    :blushing: :shy:
     
  17. Jun 23, 2007 #16

    Danger

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    Hmmm... I guess my fingers can work independently from my brain. :biggrin:
    I must say that almost every Mentor here has at one time or another saved my ass by either deleting a stupid post that I made in the heat of the moment or by locking a thread before I could make such a post. Speaking as one who normally can't stand having someone watching over my shoulder, I'm really grateful for the job that they do.
    (I also like the auto-censor function; I can just speak my ****ing mind and let the software look out for me. :biggrin:)
     
  18. Jun 23, 2007 #17

    radou

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    Whoa, I didn't know about that!

    I'd try it out right now, but I'm too afraid of Evo to even try. :biggrin:
     
  19. Jun 23, 2007 #18
    is that true? I'll try it!

    ****! ****! barbara streisand!
     
  20. Jun 23, 2007 #19

    Hurkyl

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    I don't see the big deal. Whenever I type four asterisks in a row, nothing special happens.
     
  21. Jun 23, 2007 #20

    Danger

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    So you're saying that you aren't star-struck?

    edit: By the way, Hurkyl is one of the few Mentors who hasn't saved my ass, because this is the first time he hasn't been asleep while I was posting.
     
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