- #51
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But I wonder if the same would happen in the modern Israel, under Sharon...
Why do people hate the Jews?
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- Thread starter schwarzchildradius
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- #52
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I don't know..and I'd rather not indulge in supposition. One thing I do know..is no such event has occurred regarding Arafat.
- #53
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And neither with Sharon...
I just do not believe that the Israel-Palestine problem can be reduced to the idea of one side being the bad guy. I think the blame flinging that goes on is one of the obstacles to a peaceful settlement.
I just do not believe that the Israel-Palestine problem can be reduced to the idea of one side being the bad guy. I think the blame flinging that goes on is one of the obstacles to a peaceful settlement.
- #54
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FZ-There is certainly enough blame to go around for numerous things. But, there is one thing for certain as long as Arafat is spouting hate and destruction in arabic out of one side of his mouth and peace and kiss, kiss in english out of the other side there will be no end to suicide bombing or hamas and hezbollah terrorist activites and without an end to suicide bombing and hamas-hezbolloah activities there will never be a land for peace agreement. Because, as some seem to forget the land is only one side of the agreement..the peace is the other very important one that has of yet, never come to fruition.
*addition: If there is one hope, at this point it very well could be this roadmap for peace that both sides are working very, very hard at undermining. Maybe the one thing going for it is the stubborn and singleminded hardheadedness of Bush.
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- #55
drag
Science Advisor
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Greetings !
will not be tolerated - they are part of the
freedom of speech.
of Rabin the sensitivity towards these extremist
groups coming from the settlements has greatly
increased.
Damgo,
First - Christianity, although it also includes
the Bible, the main and transformed principles
of the religion are coming from the new testament
which speaks of Jesus and his teachings. These
teachings are completely against any sort
of violence. (I'm not saying it's good or bad,
I personally am against such a view, however
the point remains.) Nevertheless, enough reason
was found to justify violence. In Islam, the
exteremist will find the task easier should
he want to emphasize violence and Jihad.
As for the USSR, do you have at least a general
idea of the resources the USSR poured into the
above mentioned countries and many other arab
countries ? The amount of Soviet engineers that
worked on developing them, the weapons of all
their armies and many many more.
Communism didn't work, so in a number of places
they tried to side with Islamic extremists and
when the USSR was on your side - the opposition
was doomed. After some local fires were egnited,
the Islamic revolution took on a life of its own
like most revolutions and did what it pleases.
Again, this revolution does not honor this old
and respected religion.
As for the arabs supported Hitler stuff, that's
an abvious historical fact. And the support was
not only by palestinian arabs but all over the
middle east including Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordan,
Egypt and many other countries.
I did not mention the part about the holy sites
because it is not an important factor for most
Israelis - they'd give'em up in a heartbeat
if they thought this would mean the end of the
conflict. It is a major issue for religeous
extremists who also happen to be the settlers.
However, like the "normal" people who were
once thrown out when Israel returned Sinay
to Egypt, these people will be thrown out even
quicker if and when Israel sees that it can
have a real agreement with an established
palestinian central rule.
The "right" of return is a questionable
matter (beyond the general fact that it'll
never happen). It is true that the
palestinians left those territories and that
there wasn't an established state that
can claim it's rights there (the UN resolution
was a devision that never actualy took place).
On the other hand, the - "I had a state there once
in history so the land is mine and if I didn't
have a state there then it's not" is often
problematic. The palestinians are indeed the
loosers in this case and it is indeed unfair.
But, life's not always totally fair. An if for
the past half a century they would spend their
time actualy working and establishing something
they'd have a prosperous state by now. Of course,
they were also the play tools of the arab world
which certainly had a strong negative effect.
Live long and prosper.
Carefull, critism of racism and extremism
will not be tolerated - they are part of the
freedom of speech.
In a heartbeat and faster. Since the assasination
of Rabin the sensitivity towards these extremist
groups coming from the settlements has greatly
increased.
Damgo,
First - Christianity, although it also includes
the Bible, the main and transformed principles
of the religion are coming from the new testament
which speaks of Jesus and his teachings. These
teachings are completely against any sort
of violence. (I'm not saying it's good or bad,
I personally am against such a view, however
the point remains.) Nevertheless, enough reason
was found to justify violence. In Islam, the
exteremist will find the task easier should
he want to emphasize violence and Jihad.
As for the USSR, do you have at least a general
idea of the resources the USSR poured into the
above mentioned countries and many other arab
countries ? The amount of Soviet engineers that
worked on developing them, the weapons of all
their armies and many many more.
Communism didn't work, so in a number of places
they tried to side with Islamic extremists and
when the USSR was on your side - the opposition
was doomed. After some local fires were egnited,
the Islamic revolution took on a life of its own
like most revolutions and did what it pleases.
Again, this revolution does not honor this old
and respected religion.
As for the arabs supported Hitler stuff, that's
an abvious historical fact. And the support was
not only by palestinian arabs but all over the
middle east including Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordan,
Egypt and many other countries.
I did not mention the part about the holy sites
because it is not an important factor for most
Israelis - they'd give'em up in a heartbeat
if they thought this would mean the end of the
conflict. It is a major issue for religeous
extremists who also happen to be the settlers.
However, like the "normal" people who were
once thrown out when Israel returned Sinay
to Egypt, these people will be thrown out even
quicker if and when Israel sees that it can
have a real agreement with an established
palestinian central rule.
The "right" of return is a questionable
matter (beyond the general fact that it'll
never happen
). It is true that thepalestinians left those territories and that
there wasn't an established state that
can claim it's rights there (the UN resolution
was a devision that never actualy took place).
On the other hand, the - "I had a state there once
in history so the land is mine and if I didn't
have a state there then it's not" is often
problematic. The palestinians are indeed the
loosers in this case and it is indeed unfair.
But, life's not always totally fair. An if for
the past half a century they would spend their
time actualy working and establishing something
they'd have a prosperous state by now. Of course,
they were also the play tools of the arab world
which certainly had a strong negative effect.
Live long and prosper.
- #56
- 755
- 0
Well, yeah.Originally posted by C0mmie
Exaclty! It's because they're jealous!
Its more of a form of misunderstanding and, like any reaction to someone who thinks "I'm right and you're not".
This seems to be the basis for all religious strife... (all that has not been artificially stirred up, that is)... each religion and the people who practise its traditions thinks of themselves as the right way... they regard the next tradition as pig slop.
Combine this intolerant attitude... (which is prevailent today, as backward as it is)... with the coveting of the Hebrew diligence and method of financial and social survival and we see the Hebrew nation picked apart and looted if not in the minds of other nations then in actuality.
There is less and less room on this planet for displays of testosterone-driven reactions. We all need a place to sit down and hash out our differences... take stock of what works best for everyone and create the Utopian conditions that all the inhabitants of Earth deserve to experience. The Hebrew Nation's ideas can help with that just as much as certain tribal traditions out of New Guinea can help.
- #57
- 18
- 0
I like to think it's a form of sibling rivalry. If you have someone at a party that always has the right answer to a question, they are probably Jewish. Jews have the most patents on stuff, especially encryption patents. Also, G-d, of course like the Jews best of all and states they will rule the new world.
Most Jews don't believe this bunk but a lot of Arabs do.
Jews have a saying, "...If the Arabs lay down their arms, there will be peace in the middle east...if Jews lay down their arms, there will be no more Israel..."
The original persecution started when Rome passed laws, forbidding the Jews from congregating, spreading their religion and holding govenment offices, after the the Jews were defeated. They dispersed them around the world at that time. I think the rest has to do with money; kick out the Jews, take their homes and property. Many examples of this practice is found in Europe, when the Nazis tried to rob the Jews and exterminate them to keep their possessions.
I don't know if there is a real reason for Jew Hating. Perhaps is is simply a common practice passed down though the centuries, like the notion that left handed people are somehow different or that Pigmy's suffer from birth defects.
Most Jews don't believe this bunk but a lot of Arabs do.
Jews have a saying, "...If the Arabs lay down their arms, there will be peace in the middle east...if Jews lay down their arms, there will be no more Israel..."
The original persecution started when Rome passed laws, forbidding the Jews from congregating, spreading their religion and holding govenment offices, after the the Jews were defeated. They dispersed them around the world at that time. I think the rest has to do with money; kick out the Jews, take their homes and property. Many examples of this practice is found in Europe, when the Nazis tried to rob the Jews and exterminate them to keep their possessions.
I don't know if there is a real reason for Jew Hating. Perhaps is is simply a common practice passed down though the centuries, like the notion that left handed people are somehow different or that Pigmy's suffer from birth defects.
- #58
- 690
- 6
Well it is partly historic and partly bad luck (wrong place at the wrong time, not very forward thinking politics)
For example, the Catholics had a history of anti-semitism towards Jews, presumably for them rejecting Christ, and at least being partially responsible for his death (don't ask me religion is scary) This simmering under current often exposed itself when the church refused to allow Jews certain rights or confiscated their land or in the case of the German Crusade, massacred them. There's also the problem of the lending laws of the middle ages. The idea of lending money with interest was illegal back then (money lenders in the temple, etc) So the Jews not being subject to this law became the bankers and money lenders of the middle ages, quickly growing rich on the profits. What pisses people off more? Being a different "race" or being rich and a different "race". Because of this at various times, those in debt would try to avoid them by persecuting those they owed money too. It's all a bit sordid. I'm sure someone's already dealt with the 20th century, holocaust, blaming Jewish bankers for the problems with the German economy and so on. A rather ill conceived and implemented partition plan didn't help much.
During the first world war the Arabs seemed to get the impression the English had promised the Arabian peninsular to Arabian tribes. Something they later retracted. This pissed them off, and with the advent of the Sykes-Picot treaty - which was drawn up by Christian Zionists - many Arabs felt betrayed by this. It basically promised the Jews a homeland in trans-Jordan Palestine, this is when the area began to get volatile, with attacks on Jews in certain areas where before they had co-existed peacefully. During this time uprisings by Arabs in Palestine were ruthlessly suppressed by the British, who armed and trained what were to become the IDF, to further supplement and defend Jewish settlements. The British stuck between a rock and a hard place tried to alay fear of both sides by offering deals. This also angered the more fanatical Zionists such as Irgun, who saw the English as favouring Arabs. So they in turn started their own terror groups and began targeting embassies, rail stations and so on. The rest I'm sure has been covered, partition plan and so on. Yadeyade ya, modern day, all a bit of a mess. Us anti-Semitism, and US pro-Semitism, favours one side over the other, political ill will, yadeyade ya, ME political machinations, inflammatory wars, Gabrilla and Shatil massacres, colateral dammage, civillian casualties, 1968 war, annexation and occupation of West Bank, Gaza. And there we have it that's a very concise overview of the situation assuming various points have already been covered.
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