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Why do we dream?

  1. Nov 8, 2003 #1
    Why do we dream?, has caught my attention. When I read a book, four things can happen. I can read out loud and then stop talking and hear myself keep on reading, remembering all that I read. (Conscious mind) The second is to read for several lines or pages or minutes or hours and not remember what I read. (Unconscious mind) The third is to read with my conscious mind and be dreaming with my unconscious mind. The fourth is to be dreaming with my unconscious mind while reading and analyzing with my conscious mind. This has been verified by others who have the same experience, therefore there is two selves, inside of every one I. When I sleep and when I am awake I perceive both also, in both states of mind. When I have a lucid dream the conscious I, is always directing the show. When I drive a car after many years of experience my unconscious mind drives the car. How is it that anything exists? Which side is reality? Are dreams messages from ourselves to ourselves. Does dreaming make matter conscious or is matter already conscious? Do all things dream from atoms to humans? Do we dream to create self? Do we dream to create consciousness? Why do we remember almost nothing, feelings create emotions and emotions are all that we remember? If space time and energy describe the conscious mind then dreaming describes the unconscious mind. Maybe we are dreams capable of dreaming inside the great dream. If we are dreaming then the future also dictates what happens in the present. Dreaming is sort of like a great thought that is like a movie, if you run it backwards the future dictates the present and the present the past.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 11, 2003 #2
    Matter is merely derived from energy, which is its source. Whereas when we dream, our "conscious energy" -- thoughts, feelings, etc. -- establishes contact with that source.
     
  4. Nov 12, 2003 #3
    In the objective reality matter and energy are the same but have different manifestations. I do not like the word derived it implies something else, converted is more appropriate. When we dream we are subconcious. Conscious is when we make full use of the five sences and make contact with the physical world. When we dream if anything, it would be subconcious energy. Energy and matter are words for the objective reality. Consciousness is beyond those words although when it manifests itself in the objective world you could use the term energy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2003
  5. Nov 12, 2003 #4
    Cycles of Matter/Antimatter

    Dreams/Waking Reality = Matter/Antimatter cycle

    In other words, we alternate between the two realities in a flux-like and constant state. Much like when a film or cartoon is watched at normal projected speed, it seems to be a flowing and complete reality. When you look at the still frames of the film, you find there are 26 frames per second, and between each frame containing a still picture, is a black frame. The black frame is never perceived at normal perception, yet it exists, lying hidden between the perceivable frames.
     
  6. Nov 13, 2003 #5
    Re: Cycles of Matter/Antimatter

    The objective world we live in, is up down, left right, matter antimatter, dream state wake state. Or better stated the objective world we live in sometimes. For the dream state is not the objective world. Consciousness moves between the dream and wake state. WHY?
    In the objective world duality exists to maintain balance and order. But balance and order seems to have a direction which we call evolution. Mind body and spirit is evolving. WHY? does the objective world evolve? Dreaming involves what the 5 sences perceived in the objective day. The next day we have evolved, in one night it is not easy to see but the passing of a lifetime, it is very evident. So are dreaming ID must analize, organize, order and restructure the next day of our ego.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2003
  7. Nov 13, 2003 #6
    Dreams Of An Eidolon

    “Consciousness moves between the dream and wake state. WHY?”
    It doesn’t. Merely our perception of consciousness moves.

    “In the objective world duality exists to maintain balance and order.”
    No, it exists simply for the potential of union and dissolution. Or (as Crowley would say, “0=2”).

    “Dreaming involves what the 5 sences perceived in the objective day.”
    It doesn’t. Although your senses may contribute to your “dreams”, they do not form them. Eg. My friend as been blind since birth, he has never seen. He still dreams lucidly like me, even to the point of being able to describe in such VIVID detail colours, shapes, even the Universe! Even those who are deaf and blind dream.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2003
  8. Nov 14, 2003 #7
    Re: Dreams Of An Eidolon

    I agree they do dream. Your friend can dream and be blind for the same reason that my friend has no leg and can feel it from time to time. Consciousness is not only a biological funtion of sencses and brain. It is one of its functions in the objective world.

    Yes we all dream. Remeber things in detail, far from it. We can remember shapes and colors and emotions, a far fetch from what is considered detail. Try describing your last dream and then look on your monitor screen and start describing all the detail on it. Quite a difference you see. There is a subjective and objective reality.

    Back to the question>Mind body and spirit is evolving objectively. WHY?
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2003
  9. Nov 26, 2003 #8
    Re: Re: Dreams Of An Eidolon

    Because we are all in a paramistic state of apoplexy! This means that we have so many unresolved problems within our personality structure that it makes it difficult for us to attain decisions in moments of intensified emotional stress... Therefore we (humans) and other lifeforms necessitate a respective functionality of dreams so that we better maintain our illusive sanities and our conceived/perceived realities.
     
  10. Nov 26, 2003 #9
    Re: Re: Re: Dreams Of An Eidolon

    So then we dream to integrate, release stress and maintain our sanities. For what we were yesterday we are not today. Over a long time line there appears progress but on a short time period there are valleys. But what of those who waste there dreams and do not progress. At the end of a lifetime we are surely different than at the beginning.

     
  11. Nov 26, 2003 #10
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Dreams Of An Eidolon


    Progression becomes reflective of our constant deterioration. Whether we consciously acknowledge or become aware of our subconscious processes or we simply ignore and fade them as we open our eyes, we indeed change day by day and not a thing can ever remain the same nor can anything ever repeat exactly as it may have before... It is this constant state of change that has troubled me during my brief life, thus far...

    To be blatant about my point: I felt as though I was prepared to fight and die yesterday, today I'm not so sure and tomorrow I may not even care! If I live to be old and gray; I may change so drastically from my ideals of yesterday or even today to the point that I would rather accept fading than eternal life. Personnally I would rather pass on with the belief that my dreams had their respective meaning, than to go senile and not remember anything that I've done my entire life!!!

    What a tangent, but still relative I feel... ANY comments!?
     
  12. Nov 26, 2003 #11
    Re: Re: Dreams Of An Eidolon

    I believe the ghost limb and ability for the blind to dream lucidly not to be totally related, for the sake of arguement at least. There's a large difference between feeling something that is no longer there and percieving visions that have never entered the brain due to direct or typical observation.
    Your friend still feels his lost leg because his brain had developed communication through his neural network, however, even though that link was severed his brain still periodically percieves its presence or lack of presence because it continues to send signals and awaiting a response. Consciously he knows it is gone, but subconciously his brain wonders "WHY" or "WHERE".

    On the other hand blindness from birth sharpens the other senses as instinctive survival. Before our "civilization" blind infants would have been allowed to perish due to their handicap, but today they are given not only the chance to live but to be just as successful of a contribution to society if not more. Those that are able to truly develope themselves because of positive and productive support are quite capable of percieving their surroundings as most of us. Imagine the power of sound, echos, coin drops, etc... when you are not able to rely on your sight. Take a look around! Just because other's cannot see the things that you see doesn't mean that they aren't able to percieve them. This goes for color, brightness, beauty, and many other "words" that we take for granted. Color can stand for hot/cold or emotion... Brightness for intensity... Beauty for Symmetria... And so on.

    Without going further on another tangent; I see no reason why the blind wouldn't be able to have more imaginatively lucid dreams than the normal lay person. There are so many languages besides the vocal, visual, emotional, mathematical. But all seem to come together in the interpretation and understanding of our dream states.:smile:
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2003
  13. Nov 26, 2003 #12
    Wrong Question...

    I think the question should not be "Why do we dream?", rather "Do we dream?".

    I read a theory a long time ago that we do not dream at all, and our minds are completely at rest when asleep.
    It said the "dreams" did not exist until we woke up.
    When we awake, we remember these random impulses and our waking mind applies meaning to them.

    I think a more likely scenario is that when we enter a state of unconsciousness, our conscious minds "rest".
    Without conscious observation, our brain activity would consist of seemingly random neurostimulation (through our 5 senses, I suppose) that make no sense and are not "thoughts".

    When we are in a state which is not as deep of a sleep (such as REM sleep, just falling asleep or just waking up) or our sensory stimulation is changed beyond simple static "background noise" (such as when music starts playing, it gets too cold for you to remain sleeping restfully or a loud truck just drove by) our conscious minds are marginally active.
    In this condition, our conscious minds are still resting, but semi aware.
    Our minds would be little more than observers, without the necessary capacity to analyze and interpret our observations cognizantly.
    Those seemingly random impulses would make no sense to us at all, so our minds, in an effort to understand our surroundings, simply apply meaning to them.
    Which would explain a few things:
    Why our dreams make little sense rationally.
    Why they seem to reflect recent thoughts.
    Why we rarely remember our dreams.
    Why the ones we do remember are usually the ones right before waking.
    Why, when we are 146 years old, live in a purple cow and speak Venutian, we are not surprised at all, and don't even realize it is a dream.


    When we are in a semi-conscious state (such as in a lucid dream or High) our conscious minds are more active, therefore we have limited, but some, control over our higher faculties (including reason).
    We are more than observers, but how much power of rational thought we have varies.
     
  14. Nov 27, 2003 #13
    Re: Wrong Question...


    Without a doubt, I believe in my dreams and their existence! True they are not always rational, though I don't expect them to be. However, I've gained a much better understanding of myself and have increased my life experience due to my personal interpretation of them.

    I am not always able to remember my dreams, because much of their purpose to me is to assist me in letting go of unnecessary data that I become stimulated with on a daily basis. Also, as soon as I open my eyes, I am immediately starting to take in "new" conscious information. However, I've learned methods for incubating and recalling my dreams throughout the night, by keeping my eyes closed and returning to my most comfortable positions.

    But as I said before... Getting older seems to merge these two realms and one day I may be a "purple cow" and not remember being a rock climber at the California Pennicles at age 21!


    I agree... When we experience a "high" we are activating parts of our brains that are normally more dormant, and are able to be active observers, and our ability to recall dreams decreases since we are consciously processing and discarding more information than usual. We seem to not need the full original function of dreaming as we would with a sober mind.

    Yet with a clear mind and a healthy body, we can achieve great things on both sides of these realms and we may finally learn better ways of gaining more control of ourselves; whether consciously or subconsciously.
     
  15. Nov 27, 2003 #14
    Re: Re: Wrong Question...

    How can you be so sure?

    Of course.
    But that would be true with either of the given scenarios above, as well.
    Whether they are dreams, or they are subconsciously applied meanings to meaningless random activity, it is still our subconscious mind coming that is giving them meaning, therefore a window into our subconscious mind (if we actually do interpret them correctly).

    I don't think so.
    When high, we don't activate parts of the mind that are normally dormant.
    It is exactly the opposite.
    The rational, analytical parts of our mind, that are usually active and (depending on the person) have some level of contro over our thoughts and actions, are lying dormant.

    I completely agree.
     
  16. Nov 27, 2003 #15
    Re: Wrong Question...

    It does seem that even during the day a small part of it is given to rational thought. How long can you really keep a conscious thought while reading, try it, you will not last long.
     
  17. Nov 27, 2003 #16
    Re: Re: Re: Dreams Of An Eidolon

    This is a dream that i had after an argument with my son on trying to be more helpfull.

    A big horse fell in a deep wide stone wall, well. I tried to pull out the horse with all my strength with two thin ropes. I could not get him out and asked Ricky to help me. He would not help me. The horse cried out and died through my chest. I felt this death through my chest and cried like a horse.
     
  18. Nov 27, 2003 #17
    It may be one of my human frailties that I tend to apply signifigance to randomocity, ironicy, and I try to relate meaningful symbolism to the rational or irrational... However, no matter how anyone seems to percieve things, it comes back to "in the eye of the beholder".

    I agree with much of your logic on this, but much of it still doesn't compute with my personal reasoning.

    All I can relate is what I believe I've experienced, just as you (Rader) are relating what you've contemplated or experienced. Either way, neither of us are ever really wrong, though both of us may be equal fools for even pondering such things. Everything may be a dream or nothing may be conscious. But both seem very real when they occur to me.

    --------
    "It does seem that even during the day a small part of it is given to rational thought. How long can you really keep a conscious thought while reading, try it, you will not last long."
    -------


    A.D.D. in its many minor or major forms can possibly attribute, though most of the people that take part in this entire forum are evidently of "Creative Minds" and exhibit multi-intelligence to include Existential, Mathematical, etc... We tend to daydream and lose our ability to focus for extended periods of time during applied concentration. Simply put, we think more than much of the regular crowd, where as, someone that exemplifies Athletic Intelligence may not think as much, but has a hieghtened physical awareness.

    Daydreaming is another way for us to make sense of what we are experiencing and it is just as necessary as subconscious dreaming.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2003
  19. Nov 28, 2003 #18
    I have noticed my dreaming patterns during the day and at night have changed from posting on this forum. I have been monitoring my dreams for some time. If i could divide them into a group, i would say then, relax, work and debate dreams would be the subsets. My dreams are centered on debate now. I am consciously aware while dreaming at certain times in a subconsious state. I am aware of my conscious mind debating my unsconsious, to the point of asking questions. Its like the engagement of two of me inside of me.
     
  20. Nov 28, 2003 #19

    My dreams and their content are constantly changing, as well... I've gone through various phases with my awareness and control of them. When I was younger and I began to liberate myself of much of my influentual environment, I gained more conscious control of my unconscious states. At those times I was able to ask some of my most puzzling "Life" or "Afterlife" kinds of questions with (what I felt) astounding results and answers.

    At other times I actually choose to let go of control and use my dreams for release and relaxation without so much of a critical attitude of trying to relate to symbolism and rationality. I tend to find enjoyment out of either approach, but I can't state that I'm always aware of every event, theme, detail, etc... I doubt that anybody could, or at least I've never known of anyone. However, I've never met anyone that could remember every single moment of their conscious lives, either. I no longer believe that any of us should.

    As I've taken on more responsibility and grown into my personal unwinding path, I have lost a lot of the control that I once possessed within the second realm. I more so ride the tide and somewhat actively/openly observe scenarios and results, knowing that what happens is relative to my past experience, present daily events, and future hopeful endeavors or outcomes.

    I still take the helm when I feel it is necessary for my conscious interaction, and ask questions when I find the oppurtunity that I may actually gain another conscious awareness from within my own "soul" (much like personal revelation), but I don't have the troubles of subconscious manipulation that I had to learn during the younger years of my life. Many times I have felt as though I make contact with other dimensions or the afterlife, though I really believe that these interactions are still with deeper parts of me.


    I just found this forum recently, by chance, though I surely wish that I had come across it sooner. It seems that I drive most people nuts when I try to share ANY of these subjects and expect a decent discussion. No one in my family or near-close relationships seem to care about discussing or sharing the ponderings of creative or existential minds. Many that I have met either deny awareness of their dreams or try to claim that they don't dream at all. But I imagine that those with hardened shackles upon their lives from our "societies" would find it harder to understand concepts of freedom and therfore would not quest as deeply within themselves to gain more personal understanding and better control of their own lives, as well as dreams!


    --------------
    I try to think of everything, only to find that I don't KNOW anything!
     
  21. Nov 29, 2003 #20
    The more you learn the less you know.
    The answer to one question makes two answers.
    Its very hard to comprehend that we will never know the last WHY? but even harder to comprehend that we will.


    Thats the individual evolving, thats the dream purpose..
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2003
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