Why do we have realistic dreams?

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Hi there.

It has been a while since my last post, I have always had dreams where I saw something and sometime latter I saw exactly the same thing happen, Unfortunatly I never saw the Tatsloto Numbers, God damn!

Any ways I was just woundering If during that time your brain automaticly uses some parts that we cannot control and it can see the future or if it is just playing tricks on you?

I have heard that If you can truly use your brain (anything more than 40% of it's ability) you can predict the future, does the brain become more inteligent during sleep time?


I am sure this has happened to most people.
 

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  • #2
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perhaps...in my theory, the 10% or 40% of the brain we "use" just means how deep into our subconsciousness we have penetrated. 100% usage of brain would be optimal awareness and we would have no subconsciousness at all. we would be 100% consciouss.

our brain is perhaps randomly and uncontrollably using that potential during our sleep, on the sub-conscinouss level. but the potential is not controlled by us during our sleep, so we have no control of either how intense the usage will be or what results will it create.

did that shed some new light on your questions?
 
  • #3
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so perhaps, if you pray entire day, thinking and concentrating hard on tatsloto numbers, they will appear in your brain during sleep. just don't roll over in your bed, as research suggest that we forget our dreams when we do that. so, perhaps you already dreamt the right combination:-)))))
 
  • #4
loseyourname
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All of the brain is used at one point or another. The reason the entire brain is never used at the same time is because the energy required is very great and we would have to eat more and have less energy available for other tasks that are essential to survival more so than thinking. Evolution came up with a great compromise for us: we get a very large brain that can store and compute a great deal of information, but we can only use so much of it at any one time. This includes while you are asleep.
 
  • #5
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yes this is somewhat clearing my head now. Is there an article or a site that you are aware of that contains more information? I really want to read about brain and it's abilities.

Thanx
 
  • #6
I've had several deja vu experiences. The way that it happened for me was that I would have the experience and "feel" as though I had dreamt it before. I was unable to remember having had the dream though. I told myself that since I could not remember having the dream it is most likely I did not dream it. The "feeling" of having dreamt these occurances then went away and left me with an odd sensation like a sensory echo.
The mind has a tendancy to fill information gaps. Such as the famous banana/knife experiment. A psychology professor had someone, during one of his classes, run up to another student "stab" the student and then run out of the class room as the "stabbed" student fell to the ground. Everyone was quickly herded out of the room. Afterward they were all asked what they had seen. They all stated that the student had been stabbed and a coulple of them even went so far as to say they had seen a knife in the perpetrators hand. There was never a knife though. The perpetrator had made a stabbing gesture at the student with a banana and the student, in on the stunt, fell over as though he had been stabbed.
You might know some people that tell stories and often when you hear that person tell the story more than once the details of the story seem to change.
A friend of mine came up with an idea that perhaps when you have that deja vu sensation it's really just an echo, that as the information is stored a wire gets crossed and you start to imediately recall the information as it is being stored. In this sort of scenario it's possible that you have the experience and have no idea what it is and so grasping for an explination your mind tells you that you must have dreamt it before.
 
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  • #7
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umm! also I know many people infact every one has dreams where they feel the things that goes on. I know that it happenes because of brain stimiulations, Can you guys give me a link about this sort of thing please?

I apreciate all your help!

thanx
 
  • #8
honestrosewater
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Here's a nice introduction to sleep (and dreams). UCLA's http://www.npi.ucla.edu/sleepresearch/Index.htm [Broken] has several intro articles listed under "About Sleep"- they have links too. You might also try Sleep, Dreams, and Wakefulness- though I haven't read much there. If you are interested in something specific, try searching HighWire or Cogprints and, of course, there's always google and google scholar. Have fun.
 
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  • #9
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I'd go for echoes too..

...but echoes of a future that has already happened to YOU in an alternative universe, which could suggest we are not the initial first universe in the precession of the multiverse

maybe our vibrational signature got slightly detuned enough to get a glimpse of another experience from the "thought dimension" given that in that dimension there is no past, present or future. All possibilities exist we just haven't enacted the probability of an event happening because the cosmic butterfly is still flapping somewhere else.

If this "thought dimension" exists for us in a minimum 11 dimensional reality then there is no reason to suggest that our individual subjective consciousness in another universe doesn't tap into and project in the same way we do in this one.
 
  • #10
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As I read the title of this topic I thought of the idea : Why don't we ever have dreams that are meaningless? Or better, why don't we have dreams that can express emotions without using realistic imagery. By realistic I mean objects, because we've all had that weird sludge monster chasing after us and thats not realistic.

Why aren't our dreams like a swirling screensaver where certain colors allow us to feel attributed emotions? Why does it have to be experiences that trigger these feelings. Our subconscious relates sounds, smells, all sorts of non-visual triggers for emotions. What decides that imagery is going to be the primary form?
Do you ever smell while you're dreaming? I cannot recall any dream where I go "that smells good". Its as if that sense doesnt exist.

Perhaps this shows that our conscious memory is primary visual, and rather than pull dreams from the unconscious, it pulls images from our conscious memory in relation to the subconscious fellings we're trying to experience.

Sorry for the rambling, its really only one question that I just wanted to be clear on. I also don't expect any real answer, but merely your thoughts. Sorry to try to divert attention from the original post, but it was this post's topic that was my inspiration.

-K.J.Healey
 
  • #11
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"What decides that imagery is going to be the primary form?"
"Perhaps this shows that our conscious memory is primary visual"

the latter is a long known fact in psychology and medicine....hehe you went deductive from dreams! koo.
 
  • #12
RingoKid said:
maybe our vibrational signature got slightly detuned enough to get a glimpse of another experience from the "thought dimension" given that in that dimension there is no past, present or future.
bayan said:
I have heard that If you can truly use your brain (anything more than 40% of it's ability) you can predict the future
Hi there, this is my first post since finding the forums today, but I feel compelled to object to the outrageous claims of things like this.

For sure, Dreams have intense personal meaning to many people and some are deeply mystified by what they might symbolise or hold 'the key' to. But I propose another option devoid of pseudo-metaphysical-mysticism claptrap.

In my honestly less than amazing knowledge of neurobiology (physicist by education) I am aware that the human brain is a dual system of electricity and chemical interaction. I also know that we generally understand our 'concious' thought to be generated electrically, while our memories are stored chemically. It can be examined much like a computer system with the three components of Processor, RAM and Hard Disk.

Our electrical mind does the thinking, while maintaining something of a daily running-record of events in it's electrical 'RAM' or temporary storage. Somehow, our mind has to sift through the temporary storage and figure out what's worth keeping in our long-term chemical memories. This happens most efficiently when we are in our deepest stages of sleep.

I propose that in order to evaluate temporary information for storage potential, the brain "parses" information through a subconcious trivia filter before passing to the chemical storage regions. When this information is examined, it is partly re-experienced by our conciousness. This is what we call 'dreaming'. However, without the aid of our primary senses, the mind is very imperfect and chaotic in what it does - this explains the non-linear non-sensical, sometimes absurd and abstract nature of dreams.

I propose that dreaming is the manifestation of our brain's daily "housekeeping" or "filing" system at work; sorting through the junk to store only things you need. In dreaming you experience a small amount of what the brain is working on at the current time in it's housekeeping routine.

Makes more sense than multiversal vibrational thought dimensions from the planet zog.

oneredpanther
 
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  • #13
selfAdjoint
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Welcome to the forums onered, that was a great post, but this is the haunt of the mystagogues; prepare to be dumped on.
 
  • #14
honestrosewater
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oneredpanther said:
I propose that dreaming is the manifestation of our brain's daily "housekeeping" or "filing" system at work; sorting through the junk to store only things you need. In dreaming you experience a small amount of what the brain is working on at the current time in it's housekeeping routine.
You may be interested in this ((PDF) or (HTML)) article:
Some researchers are pursuing the idea that REM sleep might have a role in memory consolidation, but as I examined in detail in a 2001 article in Science [see “More to Explore” on opposite page], the evidence for that function is weak and contradictory. The findings that argue against memory consolidation include the demonstration that people who have brain damage that prevents REM sleep, or who have a drug-induced blockade of REM sleep, have normal—or even improved—memory.
You can certainly search for more info on the proposed connection between dreaming and memory.
Maybe that wasn't exactly what you had in mind, but the article also examines several other proposed functions of sleep and dreaming.
Welcome to PF! :biggrin:
 
  • #15
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I was thinking more of deja vu...

...I am interested in this planet zog though. Do the extraterrestrials there have the same electro-chemical "consciousness" you speak of or does it differ from ours ???
 
  • #16
honestrosewater
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RingoKid said:
I was thinking more of deja vu...

...I am interested in this planet zog though. Do the extraterrestrials there have the same electro-chemical "consciousness" you speak of or does it differ from ours ???
I agree with oneredpanther about zog and such.
It could be that deja vu is sometimes caused by a person's consciously experiencing something that has already been experienced unconsciously or that has been experienced consciously but mostly forgotten. The spooky or surprising aspect of deja vu would be that you're realizing you know something you thought you didn't know. Even if this could explain some cases of deja vu (and cases where deja vu doesn't occur when it would be expected to), it doesn't explain cases where deja vu occurs in a situation known to have never been experienced before. Explaining this would involve figuring out how similar two experiences have to be to cause deja vu. Anywho, just some thoughts.
 
  • #17
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because lifes a grand dream.
 
  • #18
Alkatran
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pocebokli said:
perhaps...in my theory, the 10% or 40% of the brain we "use" just means how deep into our subconsciousness we have penetrated. 100% usage of brain would be optimal awareness and we would have no subconsciousness at all. we would be 100% consciouss.
Myth. Look it up on almost ANY myth-busting site. The brain only uses a certain percent of your brain at any one time. If it used 100% constantly... well I don't know what would happen, but it's probably likely that you'd die.

pocebokli said:
our brain is perhaps randomly and uncontrollably using that potential during our sleep, on the sub-conscinouss level. but the potential is not controlled by us during our sleep, so we have no control of either how intense the usage will be or what results will it create.
This suggests that we counsciously control our brain activity level (which is true, to some extent) since we 'lose control' when we sleep.

did that shed some new light on your questions?
Nope.

I'd go for echoes too..

...but echoes of a future that has already happened to YOU in an alternative universe, which could suggest we are not the initial first universe in the precession of the multiverse

maybe our vibrational signature got slightly detuned enough to get a glimpse of another experience from the "thought dimension" given that in that dimension there is no past, present or future. All possibilities exist we just haven't enacted the probability of an event happening because the cosmic butterfly is still flapping somewhere else.

If this "thought dimension" exists for us in a minimum 11 dimensional reality then there is no reason to suggest that our individual subjective consciousness in another universe doesn't tap into and project in the same way we do in this one.
That made absolutely no sense. Let me go through it...
Echoes of a future that has already happened?? Wouldn't that imply it was the... PAST?? And why in the world would we only access these 'alternate universes' in our sleep??

What in the world is a vibrational signature. If it can get detuned, how is it a signature? What is the thought dimension? If there is no past present or future in it why can't I see my thoughts from the future while I can see the ones from the past? All possibilities do not exist: Something can't be both true and false at the same time (assuming it's a true/false question). It's a possibility but it can't exist.

You throw in some string theory I see... although I consider my perceived reality to be 3 dimensional. If we're just getting thoughts from alternate selves, shouldn't the ratio of inaccurate dreams to accurate dreams by infinity to one?


Summary: WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU SAYING???
 
  • #19
Tom Mattson
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Alkatran said:
That made absolutely no sense. Let me go through it...
Alkatran,

Don't bother. He isn't going to offer one bit of justification for his claim. All he ever does is post some incoherent jibber jabber and then insist that you prove him wrong. He has been warned about this repeatedly, and he refuses to stop. Hypnagogue issued another warning for his last outburst, which put him over the limit. Consequently he is banned for 21 days, via the warning system.

RingoKid,

Stop creating new usernames. I am only going to delete the posts and ban the accounts if you keep it up. Take the 21 days to think about why you were warned. If you can stick to our quality guidelines, then we will welcome you back. If you cannot, then you are only going to encounter more problems here.

As you were, everyone.
 
  • #20
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Originally Posted by oneredpanther
the brain "parses" information through a subconcious trivia filter before passing to the chemical storage regions. When this information is examined, it is partly re-experienced by our conciousness. This is what we call 'dreaming'. However, without the aid of our primary senses, the mind is very imperfect and chaotic in what it does - this explains the non-linear non-sensical, sometimes absurd and abstract nature of dreams.
oneredpanther, I appreciate your rationalistic approach towards addressing this topic. I know that this forum always welcomes users such as yourself. And since you have shown that you are willing to consider and analyze ideas thoroughly, I will present you with this question: Using your prior explanation of the nature of dreams, what do you make of dreams experienced that are purely vessels of the imagination? Or in other words, while the semi-conscious parsing of memories is almost certainly a contributor to the dream experience, do you believe that we also create our dreams as a way of exploring that which we have not been engaged in? So rather than just sorting out memories of reality, we contrive vivid alternate scenarios (figments of the imagination) to everyday life that are not only abstract, but are altogether false and in a practical sense, utterly useless for our minds to hold on to.
You may argue that it is simply a side effect (non-linear, absurd, etc.) of our memory sorting, but there are times when I and others I know have ridiculous dreams that seem utterly irrelevant, even symbolically speaking. Though it is possible that all dreams are at the very least representative of something in our everyday lives, I have to wonder about certain cases. Where do the origins of such obscure dreams lie?
I do find it interesting as well that as we grow older, our dreams generally tend to become less intense and less bizarre and or frightening. It is as though our maturity/age brings about a more efficient means of sorting through the memories that become trapped within our subconscious from day to day. This is a different area to explore though.
 
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  • #21
Evo
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oneredpanther said:
I propose that dreaming is the manifestation of our brain's daily "housekeeping" or "filing" system at work; sorting through the junk to store only things you need. In dreaming you experience a small amount of what the brain is working on at the current time in it's housekeeping routine.
A breath of fresh air! Welcome to PF!

I agree that research tends to support what you are saying. Here is a brief article Sleep Lets Brain File Memories

While sleep may allow the brain to clean up and file memories, it doesn't explain why we dream what we do. I have two different dreams that I have had repeatedly since childhood. They are always identical. Obviously we can remember dreams, so dreams can be stored in memory. I wonder what triggers an entire dream to replay?

Then there are dreams in which the dreamer has a totally new experience, such as songwriters who dream a new song in their sleep. Several famous song writers have claimed dreaming a song, then waking up and writing it down.

Earlier this week I was stressed about a client that I was certain I would lose. I had a dream in which I gave a detailed presentation in which I explained the merits of my recommendation. I remembered everything when I woke up. I gave the presentation (as closely as I could recall) to my client and they requested contracts yesterday.

Perhaps the jumbled, nonsensical dreams are experienced during the "cleanup" process, and the coherent, realistic dreams occur during a different phase.
 
  • #22
honestrosewater
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Edit: Er, please do read this, I did spend some time looking for them. I'm not just trying to spoil the fun. There are unresolved problems with the memory consolidation hypothesis.
"Unequal stress effects of the platform technique of REM sleep deprivation and contradictory reports using similar deprivation and learning paradigms weaken the hypothesis that REM sleep is important for memory consolidation. The absence of major memory deficits in humans with drug- or lesion-in-duced REM sleep suppression further undermines the hypothesis, as does the lack of correlation between REM sleep time and learning ability in humans and across a wide range of mammals. However, sleep disruption occurring before learning will affect performance in learning tasks. This disruption is not due to the loss of sleep per se, but rather to the intrusions of sleep into waking duringthe learning task. In a similar way, sleep loss, because of the resulting impairment of concentration and sleep intrusions, will interfere with recall (78). Just as nutritional status, ambient temperature, level of stress, blood oxygenation, and other variables clearly affect the ability to learn, adequate sleep is vital for optimal performance in learning tasks. However, the existing literature does not indicate a major role for REM sleep in memory consolidation" [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=cache:7owVbfW-0GUJ:a1162.fmg.uva.nl/~djb/edu/STUDENT_RESEARCH/Mirte_Cortlever/1058.pdf [Broken]]

"We present evidence disputing the hypothesis that memories are processed or consolidated in REM sleep. A review of REM deprivation (REMD) studies in animals shows these reports to be about equally divided in showing that REMD does, or does not, disrupt learning/memory. The studies supporting a relationship between REM sleep and memory have been strongly criticized for the confounding effects of very stressful REM deprivation techniques. The three major classes of antidepressant drugs, monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs), tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs), and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), profoundly suppress REM sleep. The MAOIs virtually abolish REM sleep, and the TCAs and SSRIs have been shown to produce immediate (40-85%) and sustained (30-50%) reductions in REM sleep. Despite marked suppression of REM sleep, these classes of antidepressants on the whole do not disrupt learning/memory. There have been a few reports of patients who have survived bilateral lesions of the pons with few lingering complications. Although these lesions essentially abolished REM sleep, the patients reportedly led normal lives. Recent functional imaging studies in humans have revealed patterns of brain activity in REM sleep that are consistent with dream processes but not with memory consolidation. We propose that the primary function of REM sleep is to provide periodic endogenous stimulation to the brain which serves to maintain requisite levels of central nervous system (CNS) activity throughout sleep. REM is the mechanism used by the brain to promote recovery from sleep. We believe that the cumulative evidence indicates that REM sleep serves no role in the processing or consolidation of memory." [2]

To confirm the role of sleep in memory trace processing, we need to realize four main goals. First, the characterization of task-dependent,
regionally specific brain activities during posttraining sleep should be pursued,
at different levels of cerebral organization. Second, it is necessary to demonstrate that these experience-dependent activities in sleep are ultimately related to long-lasting behavioral adaptation. Third, the specific role of sleep (i.e., sleep discharge patterns) in memory processing should be disentangled from other effects such as experimentally induced stress or circadian modifications. Fourth, the effects of SWS and REM sleep on the memory trace should be specified. A more comprehensive understanding of
the influence of sleep in memory processes could also reveal the commonalities with the role of sleep in other forms of brain plasticity, i.e., during neurodevelopment or during cerebral reorganization after brain damage.
[http://www.psychologie.hu-berlin.de/lehre/wulv38/userdata/Maquet01_S_sleep-memory.pdf [Broken]]
 
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  • #23
Evo
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honestrosewater, you keep posting references to REM and memory, REM sleep is not the only time you dream.

It appears from studies done that memory is affected mainly during the SWS (slow-wave sleep) phase.

From Neuroscience

"Memory relies on a consolidation process that is thought to benefit from sleep (1-5). This long-held view recently has received substantial support from animal and human studies, suggesting that reprocessing of newly acquired material within hippocampal and neocortical networks takes place during sleep and could be a basis for long-term memory consolidation(6-10). In this regard, several studies point to a particular relevance of slow-wave sleep (SWS). In rats, spatiotemporal patterns of neuronal activity observed in hippocampal CA1 neurons during encoding of a spatial maze are replayed during subsequent periods of SWS (11, 12). In humans, declarative memory for word pairs and spatial locations, which depends on the hippocampus (13), improved more across periods of SWS-rich sleep compared with retention periods containing large amounts of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep or wakefulness (4, 14). Nondeclarative tasks benefited mainly from periods rich in REM sleep (4, 15).

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/ful...&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&journalcode=pnas
 
  • #24
honestrosewater
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Evo said:
honestrosewater, you keep posting references to REM and memory, REM sleep is not the only time you dream.
If I had claimed or even hinted that I was an expert on dreaming or sleep, I would apologize. I don't think I've ever even seen the claim that dreaming occurs during SWS, much less seen any evidence supporting that claim. So if dreaming also occurs during SWS, it's news to me, and I would like to see the evidence.
 
  • #25
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honestrosewater said:
If I had claimed or even hinted that I was an expert on dreaming or sleep, I would apologize. I don't think I've ever even seen the claim that dreaming occurs during SWS, much less seen any evidence supporting that claim. So if dreaming also occurs during SWS, it's news to me, and I would like to see the evidence.
You're not aware that dreams occur outside of REM sleep?
 

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