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Why I am sinner ?

  1. Aug 29, 2003 #1


    In my life, I did wrong, as well as good.
    So far, I am not as bad as a criminal who breaks the law, commit killing, robbing and other felony.

    But the bible condemns that I am Sinner, and the good that i did seems have no value to neutralise my wrong, even for a few percent!

    Is that Just/Fair ?

     
  2. jcsd
  3. Aug 29, 2003 #2
    It is the trick to brainwashing you, to start out by making you feel worthless. That makes it easier to force you to accept anything you are told.
     
  4. Aug 29, 2003 #3

    FZ+

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    Depends on your interpretation of the Bible.

    My Reverse Pascal's Wager: Seriously, just live life as you feel it should be lived, without regrrets. If God is good, then He will forgive you. If God isn't, then you are screwed anyway.
     
  5. Aug 29, 2003 #4
    For most people, no, but we're making an exception in your case. :smile:
     
  6. Aug 29, 2003 #5

    Hurkyl

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    It certainly is fair.

    Note to Zero: your atheistic bigotry consistently blinds you to the possibility that any religous idea can have merit in the secular world. For example, note that in our justice system you can't, pardon the expression, get away with murder just because you did a few good deeds.


    In our mortal justice system, you do bad and you get punished. God, however, delays the punishment, giving you a chance to correct your behavior and seek forgiveness for your mistakes. You need to strive to be an all around good person, not to do enough good things to neutralize your bad.
     
  7. Aug 29, 2003 #6

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    I think the problem isn't that but rather there is eternal punishment for a system of laws that you may not even know, and the rather dare I say it, materialist idea of two wrongs make a right inherent in the idea of punishment. Why should moral action be motivated by fear?
     
  8. Aug 29, 2003 #7
    The whole thing is nonsense...a supposedly perfect creator created a seriously flawed creation, and then blames the creation. Like I said, it is a scam, perpetuated by people racked with self-loathing, and promoted by those who want to keep the sheep in line.
     
  9. Aug 29, 2003 #8

    Phobos

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    I fail to see how eternal damnation* is fair for any sin or combination of sins. The punishment is out of proportion to the crime.

    * I suppose we would need to define this though since it means different things to different religions.
     
  10. Aug 29, 2003 #9

    Hurkyl

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    I was referring specifically to the topic of whether or not it was fair that one's good actions don't "neutralize" one's bad actions. Other topics are, well, other topics. :smile:



    But since the thread has already been hijacked...

    Why do you think it (always) is? Some people act morally because it's the "right" thing to do, and in a perfect world so would all people.

    Anyways, even if you don't believe religion, such a concept certainly has societal value because it discourages illegal behaviour that would otherwise go unnoticed by the justice system.


    Is it? The crime isn't merely the sins committed, but one's unwillingness to act rightously. Forgivness for your sins is easy to get, at least in Christianity.
     
  11. Aug 29, 2003 #10
    Good deeds don't matter...sucking up to the Man is what counts. All you have to do is give up your dignity and humanity, and you are just fine!!
     
  12. Aug 29, 2003 #11

    Hurkyl

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    All this talk about dignity coming from someone using a bloody face for an avatar...

    Anyways, do you enjoy beating strawmen?
     
  13. Aug 29, 2003 #12
    No, I enjoy beating people...with sticks....



    What does that have to do with anything? Can I help it if I find all the Christian 'sinner' and 'forgiveness' thing to be similar to Wayne and Garth bowing and whining 'We're not worthy! We're not worthy!'?
     
  14. Aug 30, 2003 #13

    Hurkyl

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    As I said, you're beating strawmen.
     
  15. Aug 30, 2003 #14
    I admit that i am sinner. Ok, i can agree that the sin i committed deserves punishment, but is that justful to be Eternal Torment?
    How about the good I did, where is the rewards? Why not Eternal Reward too?
     
  16. Aug 30, 2003 #15
    Then show me the argument I should be hitting, if you would be so kind.
     
  17. Aug 30, 2003 #16

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    I am commenting that the existence of a heaven/hell, and a retributive style of justice (ie. eye for an eye) is somewhat incongruous with the more modern new-testament image as God being (a) fair, (b) fundamentally good, (c) desiring of free will.
     
  18. Aug 30, 2003 #17

    Hurkyl

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    Something relating to the poster's topic would be nice, discussing the idea that good acts should "neutralize" bad acts. Even if you can't bring yourself to speak within a religous context, it's still an interesting question for secular morality / justice, and responding along those lines would certainly be better than slander. When is slander ever an appropriate response anyways?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2003
  19. Aug 30, 2003 #18

    Hurkyl

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    If you're sorry you sinned and ask God for forgiveness, you do get Eternal Reward.
     
  20. Aug 30, 2003 #19
    You should point out the slander as well...unless I am slandering a mythological figure, in which case I invite it to appear in court to sue me...

    The Christian viewpoint starts with the premise that people are loathsome and worthless. You start out negative, and nothing you do can change it. Plus, also according to Christianity, you are culpable for the actions of your parents. Such a standpoint is ethically reprehensible, and cannot be defended by any stretch of theology or logic that I have come across.

    But, of course, you can get out of it by grovelling to the very creator who created you to be worthless and loathsome to begin with. Kissing butt isn't a great basis for ethical judgment either.
     
  21. Aug 30, 2003 #20

    Hurkyl

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    Yay, again with the off topic strawman beating.
     
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