Why I hate the english language.

[Sorry!]

There's a slight difference. I notice when I say it and when I hear it repeatedly from clicking on the speaker.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/end?o=100084

But the difference is small. The "e" in "end" doesn't have an "e" sound. You can hear the "e" sound in the word "egg".

They are both 'e' sounds one is long one is short...

These are things you learn in grade 2 and are supposed to remember for the rest of your life :tongue: Well here they teach you that stuff, maybe it's because we also HAVE to take french classes?

EDIT: Actually they both have the same 'e' sound... how do you say end? like Indian?

 

[leroyjenkens]

They are both 'e' sounds one is long one is short...

These are things you learn in grade 2 and are supposed to remember for the rest of your life Well here they teach you that stuff, maybe it's because we also HAVE to take french classes?

The long "e" is the sound it makes in the word "emu". The short "e" sound is the sound it makes in the word "egg" or "edge".

 

[Sorry!]

The long "e" is the sound it makes in the word "emu". The short "e" sound is the sound it makes in the word "egg" or "edge".

Yeah I corrected my post I wasn't thinking about the sounds the words you posted made... they are both short 'e' sounds... no difference. I editted my other post while you posted :p

 

[leroyjenkens]

EDIT: Actually they both have the same 'e' sound... how do you say end? like Indian?

Not quite, but it's so similar that they basically make the same sound.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/end?o=100084
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indian?o=100084

When she says "end" it's not the "e" sound, but a sort of different "i" sound. It's definitely not the same sound as in the word "epic".
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/epic?o=100084


That's the way I've always heard them pronounced. If someone pronounced "egg" with the same sound they use in "end", it would almost sound like "igg".

I think what makes them sound different is the letter that follows the "e". Your mouth is preparing to make the "N" sound, so that changes the way the "e" is pronounced. In "egg", you don't have to adjust your mouth to prepare for the next letter, since the "g" sound can be made quickly with an open mouth. Since the "g" sound is done at the back of your mouth, so your tongue can easily lift itself up back there to make the sound. Which is why it's so easy to make the "g" sound with your mouth open wide and not so easy with the "n" sound.

 

[Sorry!]

Not quite, but it's so similar that they basically make the same sound.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/end?o=100084
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indian?o=100084

When she says "end" it's not the "e" sound, but a sort of different "i" sound. It's definitely not the same sound as in the word "epic".
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/epic?o=100084That's the way I've always heard them pronounced. If someone pronounced "egg" with the same sound they use in "end", it would almost sound like "igg".

You my friend, have one weird accent. How do you pronounce the word friend then? Just fr'i'nd?

Because I thought I was going crazy I went and looked up the pronounciation on both. They are the same \'end\ \'eg\ Both 'e' sounds are the same in egg though it takes on a slightly more 'a' type of sound. Compared with \ˈē-(ˌ)myü\ or it \ət\

 

[leroyjenkens]

You my friend, have one weird accent. How do you pronounce the word friend then? Just fr'i'nd?

The same way I say "end", but with a "fr" before it. Not quite like "in" with "fr" before it, but it doesn't get the full short "e" sound, as if I was saying "epic" with an "fr" before it.
So I would say "frepic" differently than I say "friend".
Did you listen to the links I posted? Because they say the words the same way I do. And the same way I've heard everyone else in the world say them.

How do you say the word "ten"? Here's another example of an "e" getting the "i" sound.
Tender:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tender?o=100084

There's no mistaking it.
It's not just me.

 

[Sorry!]

The same way I say "end", but with a "fr" before it. Not quite like "in" with "fr" before it, but it doesn't get the full short "e" sound, as if I was saying "epic" with an "fr" before it.
So I would say "frepic" differently than I say "friend".
Did you listen to the links I posted? Because they say the words the same way I do. And the same way I've heard everyone else in the world say them.

How do you say the word "ten"? Here's another example of an "e" getting the "i" sound.
Tender:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tender?o=100084

There's no mistaking it.

Yeah, End and In-dian sound completely different to me. Read my post above yours just now... I included pronounciation guides. They are DIFFERENT sounds... they may be similar but you're right there's no mistaking it, they are completely different letters and sounds and you can tell by hearing it.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Yeah, End and In-dian sound completely different to me. Read my post above yours just now... I included pronounciation guides. They are DIFFERENT sounds... they may be similar but you're right there's no mistaking it, they are completely different letters and sounds and you can tell by hearing it.

The way it's supposed to be said is different from the way people say it. That's because the when people say it, they adjust their mouths for the following letters.

Do you hear how "tender" is pronounced when you click on the speaker? She obviously makes the "e" sound like the "i" in "in". But you can click on the IPA for both "tender" and "end" and they say the "e" sound is the same.

tɛndər
ɛnd

 

[Sorry!]

The way it's supposed to be said is different from the way people say it. That's because the when people say it, they adjust their mouths for the following letters.

Do you hear how "tender" is pronounced when you click on the speaker? She obviously makes the "e" sound like the "i" in "in". But you can click on the IPA for both "tender" and "end" and they say the "e" sound is the same.

tɛndər
ɛnd

Yeah, tender and end are both the same. Egg is the exception with a more 'a' sound to it... A is not the rule to apply all other words to.

In sounds different so does In-dian. Even by listening to those clips over and over and over and over and different websites they do not sound the same. One has an 'e' sound one has an 'i' sound, which is similar to 'e' but not the same... I have neve in my life heard a person pronounce Indian the same way they would pronounce end... and I am an native Indian so I've heard the word pronounced quite a few times...

 

[Sorry!]

An example of when 'e' sounds like 'i' is when you use 'ed' at the end of a word. Sometimes it's an 'ID' sound. Like EndED... it's not a strong 'i' sound but it's much closer.

 

[kote]

The way it's supposed to be said is different from the way people say it. That's because the when people say it, they adjust their mouths for the following letters.

Do you hear how "tender" is pronounced when you click on the speaker? She obviously makes the "e" sound like the "i" in "in". But you can click on the IPA for both "tender" and "end" and they say the "e" sound is the same.

tɛndər
ɛnd

Strange. The last time I heard Leeroy Jenkins' accent the "e"s were all pronounced as "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE."

 

[leroyjenkens]

Yeah, tender and end are both the same.

That's what the IPA says, but did you click on the speakers and have a listen? They definitely sound different. The way she says "tender" is definitely with the "i" sound.

Egg is the exception with a more 'a' sound to it... A is not the rule to apply all other words to.

I hear no "a" sound in "egg". It's the same "e" sound as in "epic".

I have neve in my life heard a person pronounce Indian the same way they would pronounce end...

I notice a small difference in the way I say "end" and the way I say "in". Except for the "d" at the end, obviously. But that difference is so minute that it's indistinguishable unless you say it over and over and consciously think about the difference. It's a small difference.

An example of when 'e' sounds like 'i' is when you use 'ed' at the end of a word. Sometimes it's an 'ID' sound. Like EndED... it's not a strong 'i' sound but it's much closer.

What about the first "e" in "pretend"? How do you say that? Some people say it with a long "e". I say it like I say the "i" in "inch".

 

[JasonRox]

I still think that English is a heck of a lot easier to learn and use than my native language, Dutch. No weird accents, easy grammar (relatively) and expansive enough to ensure one won't ever get bored of learning new words

Of course, nothing can beat Japanese. Now there's a fun language

Actually, Japanese is part phonetic.

On the other hand, Chinese is in fact not phonetic whatsoever. I would say Cantonese with Traditional Characters trumps any language (of course, only considering the prominent one).

 

[Sorry!]

That's what the IPA says, but did you click on the speakers and have a listen? They definitely sound different. The way she says "tender" is definitely with the "i" sound.

I hear no "a" sound in "egg". It's the same "e" sound as in "epic".

I notice a small difference in the way I say "end" and the way I say "in". Except for the "d" at the end, obviously. But that difference is so minute that it's indistinguishable unless you say it over and over and consciously think about the difference. It's a small difference.

What about the first "e" in "pretend"? How do you say that? Some people say it with a long "e". I say it like I say the "i" in "inch".

So you say 'prit-ind' instead of pre-tend? Odd. The e in 'e'gg makes a ˈā it's definitely an a sound in there and that's the one, it's still the same old 'e' sound just with a slight twist. Epic however has the same 'e' sound that is found in End. Which is not the same at all as 'in' which means 'men' is not the same as 'min'. Man you people are WEIIIIRDDD haha.

 

[leroyjenkens]

So you say 'prit-ind' instead of pre-tend? Odd. The e in 'e'gg makes a ˈā it's definitely an a sound in there and that's the one

The IPA says "prit-ind" is the correct way. Some people say "pre-tend", giving the "pre" part the long "e", like in "premature".

Oh, you're one of those people who say "egg" with the long "a" sound? Like the "a" sound in "ache". That's just a common weird way of saying "egg". That's not the correct way. I know a lot of people who say it like that.

 

[Sorry!]

The IPA says "prit-ind" is the correct way. Some people say "pre-tend", giving the "pre" part the long "e", like in "premature".

Oh, you're one of those people who say "egg" with the long "a" sound? Like the "a" sound in "ache". That's just a common weird way of saying "egg". That's not the correct way. I know a lot of people who say it like that.

It's kind of a mixture of 'e' in end and 'a' in ache yeah... the a soudn isn't clearly there but if you repeat the word several times you definitely hear it.

 

[mikelepore]

I am quite sure its so-c-i-e-ty.

I messed up earlier. When I said this word followed the rule, I didn't notice that it had a "c" in it.

 

[GeorginaS]

It's kind of a mixture of 'e' in end and 'a' in ache yeah... the a soudn isn't clearly there but if you repeat the word several times you definitely hear it.

I've said it several times out loud, now (good thing I live alone and my cat doesn't care) and there is absolutely no 'ache' 'a' when pronouncing 'egg'. Isn't that almost a Bostonian accent that would pronounce 'egg' that way?

 

[Moonbear]

I've said it several times out loud, now (good thing I live alone and my cat doesn't care) and there is absolutely no 'ache' 'a' when pronouncing 'egg'. Isn't that almost a Bostonian accent that would pronounce 'egg' that way?

I was thinking southern, like Texas, where the e probably also spans over two syallables: a-ig.

 

[turbo]

My friend's mother never lost her Oklahoma accent and the way she pronounced "oil" was outlandish. It sounded like "aaaahwl".

 

[Sorry!]

I was thinking southern, like Texas, where the e probably also spans over two syallables: a-ig.

Bahaha not that type of a sound... it's hard to explain it over the internet. It sounds exactly like the e in end with a lower sort of 'a' sound involved... nothing like 'a-ig' haha. Man typing out how thing sound to you is hard because you never know if the other make the same sounds :tongue:

 

[Kenneth Mann]

Rules like, "I before E except after C." Oh really? You mean like "foreigner?" Or, "soceity?" Or how about like half of the words that end with "E" where that "E" is pronounced, and the other half where the "E" is not pronounced.

Feel free to add to this, and post the gargantuian list of english fallibles! :)

Your gripes are really not very good. As Moonbear points out :

Neo_Anderson, I think you need a sarcasm alert added to your post.

Though, the i before e rule really only applies to words where the sound is a long e (eeeee, not eh), like thieves, deceive, chief.

The rule is really quite consistent, as in the following:

Believe, grieve, relief, tier

Or:

Receive, receipt, deceit

Then, there are the exceptions, usually lifted from other languages, like:

Diet

As far as your other gripe is concerned, remember that English derives predominantly from two languages; German (and its derivates) where the trailing “e” is pronounced, and French, where it is not (unless accented).

KM