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Why? is man considered intelligent if .

  1. Feb 25, 2005 #1
    Why? is man considered intelligent if ..........

    This is going to be an unaswerable question, but i've wanted to know if anyone agrees with me.

    I don't understand why people still believe in god. It seems to me since man could ask questions that it could not find the answers too they would answer it with god made it that way. But, if you look at all the facts of life you should be able to realize that god does not exist. I think people use god as a way of finding hope and having faith in something to live there lives. If there was a god then the world would not be as it is. There would be order and understanding.

    What if i wrote a book and in 3 thousand years somebody find it's, and then there is a new god? It would only exist in there hearts and minds, isnt that what the current bible is?
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 25, 2005 #2
    Purhaps this is the wrong forum for this...
  4. Feb 25, 2005 #3
    ill tie it in for you

    In the life of a star holds time and time is the essence of anything and everything that will ever come to exist. Our existance is measured by time. And time is measured by time. If man was intelligent he would figured this out over this much time.
  5. Feb 25, 2005 #4
    In my opinion you shouldn’t confuse the idea of god with the christian god.

    There are unanswered questions about existence.... unanswered question have always been filled in with the idea of "god".

    Personally I have never seen any proof that god doesn’t exist. I have however seen enough proof that the christian god doesn’t exist. I seriously doubt that god has sentience as we know it. Personally I think that "god" is some sort of substrate (not sure if that is the right word) that makes up existence. Something that existed before, or outside the bang (neither of these adjectives describes the idea adequately). Obviously there isn’t some old man with a beard in the sky as christians like to believe, but the idea of god as a force man can not know or understand makes sense to me.
  6. Feb 25, 2005 #5


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    Admin note: Moved to Metaphysics and Epistemology

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  7. Feb 25, 2005 #6
    What you are talking about here (though you are apparently unaware of it) is the dichotomy between "what exists" and "the rules it must obey". Belief that what exists is "God" is a very simple belief system. The rule "he gets whatever he wants" is also a very simple rule system. Clearly, it explains the universe as well as any other explanation. The problem is that it provides very little information as to what to expect. Notice that it generally includes "what has happened in the past will probably happen in the future" (gods very generally do what they like to do :rofl: ), a very powerful predictive statement; at least when it comes to the ignorant masses who concern themselves with little detail.

    Have fun -- Dick
  8. Feb 26, 2005 #7
    So the concept that what is in the Bible is true (in some sense or other) isn't even to be considered?
  9. Feb 26, 2005 #8
    Some people may argue that WE ARE IN TIME AND IN THE PROCESS OF GETTING TO KNOW ALL THERE IS TO BE KNOWN ABOUT EVERYTHING, and that since this is the case, GIVEN TIME, there is NOTHING which logically rules out the fact that WE MAY FINALLY KNOW ALL THERE IS TO BE KNOWN ABOUT EXISTENCE. Would you agree or insist that there is more to existence than that?
  10. Feb 26, 2005 #9


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    The bible seems to be somewhat arbitrarily chosen, no? There are plenty of other religious texts out there that give conflicting accounts. How do you choose one over the other? When people make naturalistic claims, there are methods by which we can evaluate these claims to determine some likelihood that they are good claims that we should accept. When a text like the bible comes along making claims about the divinity of certain men, along with numerous miracles, resurrections, and a prediction regarding how the end of days will come for our planet - rather improbable claims prima facie - and provides no way for us to evaluate these claims, what do we do?
  11. Feb 28, 2005 #10


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    Hum, I addressed that issue in the "Why God Exists" post in general philosophy: I think it contributes to our survival (in general, over the long term, and in regards to the species as a whole) as a "buttress" to our fragile nature. You know, I was a little unsure as to if I should just come out with it and say, "it's just not there", but I did and so, we'll see what happens . . .
  12. Mar 13, 2005 #11
    I have heard a lot of Christians talk about how much they value the fact that "God is always there" and the like. It is a comfort.

    For example: When one has lost a loved one, one would rather believe that the loved one is in Heaven rather than just gone. Yes, its possible to believe in "a god" without there being a Heaven, but I have yet to encounter a religion where the dead simply stop existing...

    Also it serves as an answer for many questions such as: Why are we here? Where did we come from? blah blah People would rather have this given answer than to go through the painful prosses of thinking on their own and considering possibilities. Plus, lets not forget that these (and others) are questions that we cannot answer with the knowledge that we have now. We have tried and tried and tried and failed. It is much easier to accept a vague explanation like one given by "a god" than to accept the not knowing.

    Also, religion has been used by "smart" men throughout human history to control society. Brainwash the suckers and be the king! The masses will happily follow the leader when told it is "God's will" or they will "go to Heaven" etc... How else does one get a human being to commit suicide while wearing a bomb on a train if not with the promise of several virgins on the other side?? *rolls eyes* Its a very affective tool, why let it go to waste?

    I suppose one can give even more reasons. I agree with you. No person with the ability to think for themselves living in a time with so much scientific progress has an excuse (other than simply giving in out of weakness) to believe in any God. Of course life was easier when one has someone to go to in any moment, has a protector/savior, has someone who gives all the answers, etc.

    No offense to those who do of course. A belief is a belief.
  13. Mar 14, 2005 #12
    it all depends on your definition of god. i am reasonably confident that the god of traditional religions does not exist.

    but, a universal consciousness makes sense. the only way that a 'god consciousness' could be all just, all loving, all powerful etc etc is if we embrace freewill and accept that we are our own god. the universal consciousness gains (expands it's awareness) through whatever we do.

    if we are eternal and have freewill we also create new worlds with our thoughts. we are gods (within our experience) and join with others to create a consciousness gestalt. that would be my working definition of god.

    olde drunk
  14. Mar 14, 2005 #13
    You got that right. People talk about "God" all the time without ever taking the trouble to define what they mean. I personally have a definition which seems to fit the usage of the word pretty well. (At least it seems that way to me. :rofl: )

    Explaining anything requires a starting place: i.e., accepting something as known and understood. Explaining how you happen to know or understand that is a dilemma; if you do find an explanation, that new explanation requires a starting place so you cannot argue away the fundamental existence of a dilemma. It follows that no matter what you know or understand, some Great Original Dilemma stands behind it all. And thus GOD becomes an acronym for that underlying dilemma and is quite well defined.

    It is a beautiful solution to the whole problem and often adds a little humor to religious interactions. If someone asks me if I believe in God, I can very honestly answer "yes", quite confident that the dilemma exists. Anytime someone says, "God only knows" it is quite clear that what he means is that he doesn't know and the dilemma lies behind his problem. And it sure is obvious that you cannot explain anything without accepting the underlying dilemma as fact. :devil:
    Yeah, and it agrees with my definition exactly! That is exactly the starting place of your explanations. :biggrin: Your GOD :wink:

    Have fun -- Dick
  15. Mar 14, 2005 #14
    Doctordick, thank you for your addition. Might I add that most people want an externalized god, much like having parents. there's always someone to fall back on. being olde, and now an orphan, it is easier to see.

    who the hell wants all the responsibility of being 100% responsible for their daily experience???

    i do not wish to scare anyone but that's the best conclusion i can make. when you accept that concept, it will be liberating. whatever problems you have are self induced, ergo i can create the solution.

    olde drunk

    'heaven was invented by your clergy so they could charge admission'
  16. Mar 15, 2005 #15
    Very true, its easier to live with a concept of an external power such as "God".

    Plus, we still dont know/cant explain many things about the universe. "God forbid" we accept not having an explanation for something. :rolleyes:

    Great Original Dilemma :biggrin:
  17. Mar 29, 2005 #16
    If a hen and a half can lay an egg and a half in a day and a half, how many days will it take a monkey with a wooden leg to kick the seeds out of a dill pickle?
  18. Mar 29, 2005 #17
    It's really been buggin' me...

    Personally, I find God in the delight of humility. I feel powerless because I have no idea how to answer the above question with certainty.
  19. Apr 27, 2006 #18
    Food for Thought

    We live in a cause and effect world, right? Everything must have a cause. You may say that the big bang was what caused the universe, but what or who caused the big bang? In order for our laws of the universe to still make since, there must be someone OUTSIDE our laws. Therefore...God. I mean, unless you want to imagine some sort of omnipotent space dust, but all-powerful space dust existing outside our rules doesn't have a mind to know how to create something as intricate and perfectly balanced as the world.
  20. Apr 28, 2006 #19


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    This extermely naive philosophy. There is no time before the big bang and cause seems to depend on time, therefore no cause can really be defined before the big bang. That's conventional, but note that various scientists have proposed non-divine extensions beyond the big bang. Bojowald's quantum gravity cosmology has a mirror image reverse-time world on the other side of the BB and Smolin's evolutionary scenario posits a potentially infinite chain of reproducing, evolving universes.

    Not to mention the problems with "cause and effect universe" that are being discussed on other threads.
  21. Apr 28, 2006 #20
    Well some do!, because they know that they know something that they think they know, that they do not know.

    You rather have a dilemma there, since you can not falsify there answer.

    I am rather interested, what might some of those facts be?

    I consider that a true statement only if you slide in a some before people.

    What type of order and understanding do you refer to?

    No, not if there is any authenticity to the code that the mathematician Eliyahu Rips found encrypted in the bible. If you were good at writing maybe you might be considered under some best sellers like Moby Dick or Robin Hood or El Cid Campeador.
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