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Why lawyers are seen as weasels!

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  1. Apr 22, 2003 #1
    Okay I have figured out why the public percieves lawyers as idiot lying weasels. Take this example a coworker shared with me. He was talking to his lawyer after having gotten a DUI ticket. They were planning to contest it in court I think and were just meeting to work out legall strategy or whatever. While they were talking his lawyer tells him, "oh yeah here's a really good way to make sure you don't get another DUI ticket" you'd think the lawyer would tell him the good way to not get a DUI would be to not drink and drive. NO! Rather the lawyer tells him this "When ever you go out drinking make sure to take a full and unopened can or bottle of beer with you in the car as you leave. Then if you get pulled over hop outside the car open the bottle in front of the cop and down the whole thing. That way they can't prove that you were drinking before you got in the car."

    I couldn't believe that his lawyer would actually tell him this. Of course he thinks his lawyer is the coolest pimp on earth now after that, but anyway.

    Also as a sidenote I think this has some major flaws. MAJOR FLAW #1: If a cop pulls you over for a suspected DUI you'll probably get a bullet in the head if the first thing you do is hop out of your car with something in your hands. MAJOR FLAW#2: If the cop had any brains at all he would make you take the breathalyzer immediately that way the beer that you just chugged would only show up as an initial spike on the breathalyzer during the test, what they would really be looking for is what happens near the end of the test, as that is the real indication of whether you were drinking while you were driving. This is the same effect as if you were pulled over in the morning and took a breathalyzer test, there would be an initial spike from your mouth wash but as you continue to breath near the end the mouth wash spike dissapears and if you're not drunk nothing else shows up.

    Anyways, Lawyers are Weasels!
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 22, 2003 #2
    Wouldn't it be more accurate to say 'this lawyer in particular is a weasel"? Why blast all lawyers?
     
  4. Apr 22, 2003 #3

    FZ+

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    Because the public loves generalisations, duh!

    I wonder if Sensei would care to respond to this, being a law student...
     
  5. Apr 22, 2003 #4
    Well true, it was not my intention to blast all lawyers seriously, just a little light heartedness. Now that one lawyer in specific was an idiot, but the reference to all lawyers was meant to be taken jokingly lightly, I know personally many lawyers of very fine moral character, and with whom I joke around with often about their profession. They realize its not malicious but just playful and are fine with it. Sorry if you took it that way. This lawyer though, jeez, what kind of "advice" is that!?!?
     
  6. Apr 22, 2003 #5
    i think "why so many lawyers are weasels" would have been more appropriate. but regardless, thank you for the story climbhi; just more evidence of the immoral opportunist mentality that runs rampant in our supposed "justice" system.
     
  7. Apr 22, 2003 #6
    I think you guys are taking me to seriously, yeah this story is kind of sad, but I laughed like mad the first time the guy told it to me, it was really meant to be kind of funny, not a serious social commentary.
     
  8. Apr 22, 2003 #7
    then you are not very familiar with our supposed "justice" system eh? seriously, most lawyers think about how to make the laws work to suit their ends and not about what is good or just; they measure their success by the former and not the latter. also, who becomes judges but successful lawyers? it may be comforting if you can turn your head when you see such things and dismiss them as isolated incidents, but you doing so only serves to provide the illusion of comfort.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2003
  9. Apr 23, 2003 #8
    Hey! Don't insult the weasels! :wink:
     
  10. Apr 23, 2003 #9

    russ_watters

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    Staff: Mentor

    My problem with lawyers is they are in one of the few professions that makes its own work. Every other profession is limited by supply and demand or creativity. Example: increasing the number of barbers will not increase the number of people getting haircuts. But increasing the number of lawyers DOES increase the number of lawsuits since they just make up their own lawsuits.
     
  11. Apr 23, 2003 #10

    drag

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    Science Advisor

    Douglas Adams had a really wonderful solution
    for what must be done with all these people...:wink:

    Oh and Ben-CS's right - don't insult the weasels !

    Live long and prosper.
     
  12. Apr 23, 2003 #11
    One reason lawyers are portrayed as weasels is due to social control. I think it was in the '80s when something called ADR or Alternative Dispute Resolution became popularized and touted as a means to "civilly" solve your disputes out of court and without lawyers. Its a type of mediation. Its mostly used by big corporations and companies against individual claimants, and it usually works out in the big corporation's interest. There is a lot more to it, so if you want some info, ask me, or read books by Laura Nader.
    I don't think its coincidence that we are told lawyers suck, especially by those who don't want to get sued.
     
  13. Apr 23, 2003 #12
    Not sure about the laws in Utah, but if your friend's lawyer worked in Canada, they would/could get into a lot of trouble for giving a client instructions like that.

    As for the practise of it, I would respectfully suggest that it simply would NOT work as the breathalizer test would tell, easily, if you have just consumed one beer, or had had several beers prior to the test, as it measures blood alcohol levels, and they elevate with time, by means of metabolism of the alcohol, in the liver.

    If you have just downed 'one' beer, and you blood alcohol is 3.9, you are in really big trouble!

    Lawyers work to defend the law, from the perspective of their 'client', be it that their 'client' is the Prosecution, be it that their 'client' is the Defense. They are trained to do it from either side, "without predjudice", and in full defense of the law.

    Most of the reasons why we have this really bad impression of lawyers is mostly due to the few who get notoriety for exceptional cases. Most lawyers actually help social order, and help to preserve Your Freedoms! (In principal)

    What some of you should perhaps try is to place yourselve in their positions, be the Judge and know just how the Law Handcuffs your ability to do things, cause most Justices are really 'Hogtied' (by the law) way more then most of you realize. As for the lawyers themselves, most are simply pursuing there careers/dreams/lives and doing it in the fashion that they trained for.

    Don't forget it is the Politicians that write the laws, lawyers only attempt to use them in a socially equitable fashion.

    (YES, I know, please do not verbally beat me up for it, I'm only trying to help!)

    EDIT(S) SP!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2003
  14. Apr 23, 2003 #13
    The lawyer was actually in Montana, not Utah. But yes it seems like there should be some restrictions to lawyers giving out advice like that...

    Yeah, that's what I tried to point out.

    Yes yes I know most lawyers are good and its just a few who give them a bad rap, I didn't mean to bash all lawyers, just this one. See my earlier posts.
     
  15. Apr 24, 2003 #14
    Sorry climbhi. I only mentioned some of those things as 'backup', so to speak.

    As for the breathalizer test, I suspect that there is no 'intial spike' as the means of the test are meant to measure the total alcohol concentrations from your breath. Drinking one 'on the spot' will not reduce the measure, if you have already had some previously, it will simply add to the total measured.

    Drinking and driving kills/maims/wounds lots of people, (hurts the families, children, spouses, and property damages) so YUP that lawyer is a Weasel
     
  16. Apr 24, 2003 #15
    hmmm, i don't know that's just what a cop i knew told me so, maybe i misinterpreted him...?
     
  17. Apr 25, 2003 #16
    Had a friend who had been a research chemist, told me that what the analysis was of, was the metabolic product of the ingestion of alcohol, something like "acetylaldehyde" (SP? and it is SO important in chemistry, sooo.....) which is further metabolized into formaldehyde (SP? Again, yoikes!) hence the hangover, and the reason why the "Hair of the dog that bit you" relief from hangovers, as it reverts the bodies liver back to metabolism of the alcohol, from the "formaldehyde" stage, abating the hangover effects.

    But if it measures the product, there might be a spike from the presence of the precursor to the measured product.

    The reasoning behind looking at the metabolic products presence is because it give a much better, way more accurate, measure of ingestion rate over time, and hence knowledge of just how drunk you really are, how many drinks you have actually ingested, by now!

    Certainty, backup evidence, would be nice on this one, just to be sure.
     
  18. May 7, 2003 #17
    A person suspected of DUI can request a blood test or breathalizer and still be in compliance.
     
  19. May 7, 2003 #18
    ^^^ Yup, though you cannot IIRC refuse the breathalizer w/o having your license suspended. There is usually a secondary, more accurate test done once a suspect has been arrested. The metabolic pathway of alcohol is

    ethanol -> acetaldehyde -> acetic acid

    Hangovers are a complex thing, largely produced by dehydration. (damgo's hangover remedy: drink lots of water and don't go to sleep until you sober up.) :smile:

    Many Asian people, interestingly, metabolize alcohol very slowly due to a genetic difference in their alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme. This makes them get drunk really quickly and develop a distinctive flushing reaction -- my old roommate was like this. Also, methanol poisoning is actually from a metabolic product (like APAP poisoning) -- so if you drink a bunch of methanol (dumb!) the treatment is usually an IV drip of good 'ol alcohol....

    climbi, I've heard that before too, but as a joke... you're sure whoever wasn't pulling your leg?
     
  20. May 13, 2003 #19
    Just looked up a reference for that one, they say 'acetate' is the "final" (or following) metabolic stage.

    Acetic acid is vineger, that should/would be a noticable odor from the urine, if it were there.
     
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