Why do you have a King in Belgium?

[Leo32]

Why "May God bless you all" ?

I've always wondered why so many US leaders always end their talks in public with "May God bless you all" ?

It leaves quite a queer impression, especially when the talk is about democracy and separation of religion & state and the greatness of the US in all that.

It comes pure irony if the talk is about "those religious fanatics who attack us in name of their faith... ". Specifically when you realize both parties refer to the same God. Ah, politics...

Greetz,
Leo

 

[franznietzsche]

1) I don't think saying you hope god blesses you audience is quite the same as screaming "death to the infidels; kill their women and children; death to *insert nation name*". But that's just me.

2)Americans are, for better or worse,a religious people, and this is a religious country, though not a religious government. Now consider that an elected official needs these people to want him to rule him. Wouldn't you prefer someone who agreed with you on your most fundamental beliefs. Imean ideally, wouldn't each person want their own ideas to rule the country, after all we tend to believe our own ideas are right. We vote for candidates who agree with us. By agreeing with the american people it helps him to be elected.

Fairly simple/

 

[cepheid]

Leo,

Many politicians end their speeches with the phrase "God Bless America". Furthermore, on the US currency, it says: "In God we Trust". Go figure...

 

[Gokul43201]

As Franz said, the US is a religious country...and asking God to bless you all, will get me votes.

 

[franznietzsche]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Plotting your global take over already? You better learn french quickly if you plan to succeed, otherwise they might veto your takeover. And then where would you be?

 

[member 5645]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/wat/archive/wat042400.htm

Overall, the center's survey of surveys confirms that America truly is one nation, under God—or at least Americans say it is. In survey after survey, overwhelming majorities say they believe in God. More than nine in 10 Americans—95 percent—told ABC News polltakers that they believe in God.

They say it because it's a courtesy, odds are it's their belief, paints them in a good light and the other 5% that are atheist can get bent :) (of that 5% those that are offended enough to not vote for you over it don't matter)


Leo, what I find curious is what seems to be a presupposed idea that somehow saying 'God Bless you all' in such a setting is weakness/fault, or that a politician should have no religion. I find this attitude quite often from Europe where it the common internet attitude I run into is that Religion and spirituality is for the idiots.

 

[Gokul43201]

Leo, what I find curious is what seems to be a presupposed idea that somehow saying 'God Bless you all' in such a setting is weakness/fault, or that a politician should have no religion. I find this attitude quite often from Europe where it the common internet attitude I run into is that Religion and spirituality is for the idiots.

There's the more common view that religion/spirituality is a personal thing not to be used for political gain or to be thrust upon the populace.

 

[Leo32]

phatmonky,

although the popularity of religions in Europe has been quite low since the sixties, there is no such feeling as "religion is for the idiots". On the countrary, these days more and more people are looking for religious experiences. Be it even in so called "new age" solutions.

I have the deepest respect of people who are religious. I even envy them at times for having such a help in their lives. The issue is not with religion in se, but in the mix of religion and state affairs.

What you will find in Europe is a tendency to keep the religion strictly out of politics. We have gone through the middle ages, where the rulers of the religions, in concreto the catholics, had a lot of power over the people. Since the ages of enlightenment and the French revolution, there was a strict separation of religion and state affairs.

Hence the strange feeling when the American president says "may god bless you all". If I understand correctly, he's just being kind to his people and wishing them all the best in a way that the appearently vast majority appreciates.

People in the US should be aware however, that he's making it the Islamic people, who wish to do so, much easier to draw a parallell between America and the foul Christians that murdered them during the cruisades (for which Europe is to blame ironically). Hence the easy polarisation that all Americans are sons of the devil, a danger to Islamic believe and hence subjectible to Jihad...

Greetz,
Leo

 

[Smurf]

you know, when islamic extremists say that 'Christians have exploited our people' its possible they don't mean the crusades. anyone guess what it might be?

 

[Burnsys]

Throughout the entire history of america, every single president has publicly and repeatedly professed a fervent belief in and devotion to god. In fact, I don't think you will find a single regularly scheduled presidential speech during the past 50-100 yrs, in which the president failed to mention god at least once. Most common is the sign-off at the end of the speech, of "god bless america", or "god bless you all". Your supreme leader, who actually exists, is pretending that god exists, that america and thus all of it's citizen-slaves, need to be supported and blessed by an even greater supreme leader, and of course the only way to gain god's blessing is to believe in him, pray to him, and obey him. Not only does the president gleefully seize upon every opportunity to promote the insane god myth, but being the supreme "human" leader, by aligning himself with god in every public speech, everything that the president says is put forth as if channeled directly from god, this is the obvious ploy that is used here. By concluding his speech with "god bless america", the president is saying: "I am one of your two supreme leaders, and everything I have said in this speech has the blessing and support of your other supreme leader, the god who you worship and who you must remain faithful to in order to gain an eternity of heavenly bliss when you die. In blindly supporting me, my policies, and america, you gain the blessing of god." He doesn't need to say this out loud, the message is clear and undeniable, and embraced by a great many hopelessly brainwashed and societally/religiously addicted citizen-slaves. Within toxic and diseased societies, no aspiring societal leader who refuses to fervently proclaim a strong belief in god has any chance of ever attaining the presidency or any other national-level position of power, because of the fact that the vast majority of all citizens within the society are hopelessly addicted to the insane god myth and will only allow someone who validates the delusion that they have built their lives around, to become their empowered leader. Remember, citizen-slaves will always insist upon their leaders at least pretending to reflect and mirror the delusions, perversions, and insanity that they themselves are addicted to.

Look at the american pledge of allegiance. The pledge reads: I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all
This pledge is a toxic instrument of mental/intellectual brutalization, specifically targeted at children. All children are taught the pledge of allegiance, told that it represents important, valuable, Truth, and ordered to publicly proclaim this pledge, usually on a daily basis, within the school system. The phrase "one nation under god" not only is designed to infect children with the toxic notion that god exists, but even more perversely, to convince the child that he must be subservient to the god creature. The pledge says that the entire nation, thus all citizens, are under god, this means beneath god, less important than god is, obligated to obey and follow the will and decree of god, etc
They are confronted with the toxic message that an invisible, non-existent entity is in fact their "boss", more important than they are, and must be blindly and insanely believed in, worshipped, and obeyed. Interestingly, the original pledge of allegiance had no direct mention of god in it. Only several centuries later, in 1954, did the genocidally evil supreme leader of america, then president Dwight D. Eisenhower, sign into law a constitutional amendment that very specifically added just two words, "under god", to the pledge. As he signed this new law, in explaining why the two words were being added, your evil supreme leader declared: "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war." Don't you just love how brilliant your evil leaders are, in delivering toxic decree under a flowery verbal guise of benevolent-sounding eloquence? If he were being honest and truthful, Dwight would have said: "I feel that terroristically forcing all american children to pledge that they believe in god will result in future generations of citizen-slaves being more heavily addicted to this insane myth, thus making it easier for future american leaders to get all citizen-slaves to blindly support their evil policies as well as to get more young people to willingly sacrifice their lives upon command of societal leaders."

 

[member 5645]

, that america and thus all of it's citizen-slaves,


to promote the insane god myth,[/B]

You know, your hyperbole isn't enlightening at all. You have marginalized yourself in this conversation.

 

[member 5645]

phatmonky,

although the popularity of religions in Europe has been quite low since the sixties, there is no such feeling as "religion is for the idiots". On the countrary, these days more and more people are looking for religious experiences. Be it even in so called "new age" solutions.

I have the deepest respect of people who are religious. I even envy them at times for having such a help in their lives. The issue is not with religion in se, but in the mix of religion and state affairs.

What you will find in Europe is a tendency to keep the religion strictly out of politics. We have gone through the middle ages, where the rulers of the religions, in concreto the catholics, had a lot of power over the people. Since the ages of enlightenment and the French revolution, there was a strict separation of religion and state affairs.

Hence the strange feeling when the American president says "may god bless you all". If I understand correctly, he's just being kind to his people and wishing them all the best in a way that the appearently vast majority appreciates.

People in the US should be aware however, that he's making it the Islamic people, who wish to do so, much easier to draw a parallell between America and the foul Christians that murdered them during the cruisades (for which Europe is to blame ironically). Hence the easy polarisation that all Americans are sons of the devil, a danger to Islamic believe and hence subjectible to Jihad...

Greetz,
Leo

I don't have time to add more now, but this is easily the best explanation for what I mentioned was my perception before.

Thanks.

 

[Leo32]

Phatmonkey,

Your perception was that Europeans think religion is only for fools, how does my explanation that you quote proves this ? Frankly speaking, I'm clueless.

Obviously, there is a link that I'm missing ?

Would be very interesting which link it is, I will certainly learn from it...

Greetz,
Leo

 

[vanesch]

Not only does the president gleefully seize upon every opportunity to promote the insane god myth, but being the supreme "human" leader, by aligning himself with god in every public speech, everything that the president says is put forth as if channeled directly from god, this is the obvious ploy that is used here.

I would say "amen" to that, but that would be ridiculous, no

 

[vanesch]

Your perception was that Europeans think religion is only for fools

I know that I'm in the minority, but I do think it is only for fools :rofl:
But hey, as long as they keep it for themselves, I don't mind. Everybody has the right to his sillyness, as long as it doesn't harm others.

 

[Gokul43201]

I find this attitude quite often from Europe where it the common internet attitude I run into is that Religion and spirituality is for the idiots.

In my mind, religion and spirituality are very different things. Americans are a very religious people...I would hardly call them spiritual (unless you are using the word to mean "of the church").

I've actually heard people complain that there is no spirituality here.

 

[Burnsys]

You know, your hyperbole isn't enlightening at all. You have marginalized yourself in this conversation.

there is no one so enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free

 

[Polly]

:tongue2: They are a good flock .

 

[member 5645]

there is no one so enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free

Thanks Yoda

 

[member 5645]

Phatmonkey,

Your perception was that Europeans think religion is only for fools, how does my explanation that you quote proves this ? Frankly speaking, I'm clueless.

Obviously, there is a link that I'm missing ?

Would be very interesting which link it is, I will certainly learn from it...

Greetz,
Leo

Sorry, I was in a rush yesterday. Let me reprhase. What I meant was to say that I had a perception based on comments similar to your original one. My perception was false, and your explanation of your original comments, and the logical background for their creation (instead of my ill conceived perception of you thinking you to be anti-religious) is the best I have seen. Often when I question the Europeans I encounter online, that make comments similar to your original ones, I receive a lot of rhetoric about the "religious right" instead of a straight forward reasoning for the original statements. I enjoyed your reasoning for your angle on the matter.

 

[Gokul43201]

Wait, here's the real Yoda version for you : "Who falsely believe, free they are, most enslaved, those are"

 

[mathlete]

Why do people say "god damnit" or "god bless you [gesundheit in German]"? It's an expression, it doesn't necessarily they want god to BLESS you. I don't know what the Belgian news indoctrinates you with, but people here don't walk around obsessed with god and plotting to spread Christianity. Get over it.

Why do you have a King in Belgium? It leaves quite a queer impression. Here in America we were under the rule of a King and quickly learned that we didn't like it. So why do you have one? I personally don't like it, so I think you should get rid of it (offended that an American is telling you what to do with your country? That's exactly what you're doing). Oddly enough, you are gearing up to respond that "Well, the King doesn't have any REAL power, he's just a symbol of our history"... guess what? That's exactly what "May God bless you all is".

 

[Leo32]

Mathlete,

that's a nice point you make.

It's one very expensive symbol of history, however, the royal family helps support a whole tabloid economy, so maybe there's somewhere somehow something good in it.

Greetz,
Leo

 

[vanesch]

Why do you have a King in Belgium? It leaves quite a queer impression. Here in America we were under the rule of a King and quickly learned that we didn't like it. So why do you have one?

The reason there's a king in Belgium is historical: after the (quite ridiculous) independence movement of Belgium from the 17 provinces (under the rule of the king of Oranje) in 1830, just after Napoleon's debacle at Waterloo in 1815 and there was a very anti-revolutionary climate, the independantists knew that they would be crushed immediately if they would give a hint at a second "french revolution". So they wanted to show that they weren't libertarians, but "good honest people" and hence published an ad for a job opening as King of Belgium.
So that's what put us up with a King. I don't really mind too much (except that our previous king, Boudewijn, was quite a religious zealot and DID impose as much as he could, his visions on politics). Anyway, Belgium is a politically very complicated country (or mess, pick your choice).

I personally don't like it, so I think you should get rid of it (offended that an American is telling you what to do with your country? That's exactly what you're doing). Oddly enough, you are gearing up to respond that "Well, the King doesn't have any REAL power, he's just a symbol of our history"... guess what? That's exactly what "May God bless you all is".

gee, you're not going to bomb brussels in the name of democracy, I hope ? My parents still live there. If you're going to do so, let me first give them a phone call, ok ? :tongue: