Why should we care if china become a world power?

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  • Thread starter Benzoate
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  • #76
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What do you mean here? I think to state that their development is "helping their people somewhat" is a gross underestimate. Also, what do you mean "at the expense of their people?" I have heard that China's development has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty, which to be sure is no small feat. How has hundreds of millions of people raising out of poverty hurt the others? I'm pretty sure that the others have not gotten poorer because some of their neighbors have become richer.
Actually i believe quite a lot of people ARE suffering. Im no expert but i believe that due to China's growing economy the prices of everyday essential items (food in particular) has risen dramatically. China has a large population of people that could only just afford food before this widespread general price rise for goods... How are these people supposed to feed and support themselves and thier families now? I would say that this may be recognised as "at the expense of others".
 
  • #77
drankin
Actually i believe quite a lot of people ARE suffering. Im no expert but i believe that due to China's growing economy the prices of everyday essential items (food in particular) has risen dramatically. China has a large population of people that could only just afford food before this widespread general price rise for goods... How are these people supposed to feed and support themselves and thier families now? I would say that this may be recognised as "at the expense of others".
As a Scottish man who had been living in China for 10yrs told me in a pub in Ningbo, "noone here is starving, this is communism". Surely he was speaking of the local area (and all the "fake" beggars), but his point is that the government is ultimately responsible for feeding everyone in China. How true this is, I really don't know. He had been there awhile though and I hadn't seen anyone starving or in dire need. Communism + Capitalism seems to work over there. Noone really owns any property, or even themselves I suppose, everything and everyone belongs to China.
 
  • #78
The famines during the last century in China were mostly due to stupid, arrogant things that Mao did in running the country like he was playing with dolls. I'm pretty sure that the expansion of the economy during the last couple of decades has made famines and shortages less likely to happen, not exacerbated those sorts of problems.
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  • #79
Art
As a Scottish man who had been living in China for 10yrs told me in a pub in Ningbo, "noone here is starving, this is communism". Surely he was speaking of the local area (and all the "fake" beggars), but his point is that the government is ultimately responsible for feeding everyone in China. How true this is, I really don't know. He had been there awhile though and I hadn't seen anyone starving or in dire need. Communism + Capitalism seems to work over there. Noone really owns any property, or even themselves I suppose, everything and everyone belongs to China.
You must have had this conversation 20 years ago. These days China is no more communist than the US and has far fewer social programs to help the needy. It has all the worst elements of extreme capitalism without any of the controls such as multi-party elections and so corruption is rampant with all the problems that entails re product safety, individual rights etc..

There is one small town which practices communism and it is so rare it has become a tourist destination for young Chinese to see how their parents used to live.
 
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  • #80
mheslep
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You must have had this conversation 20 years ago. These days China is no more communist than the US and has far fewer social programs to help the needy.
Communism historically has had two parts: political and and economic. China set the economy loose, but politically it is still very much a totalitarian communist state. To be in political power you must be a member of the communist party, period. No opposition allowed, as any of the survivors of Tiananmen Square will tell you. Furthermore, I wouldn't blame the troubles in China on Capitalism anymore than Id blame the plow for oppressing the slave lashed to it; rather I'd blame the lack of any democratic opposition. Example: Thehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam" [Broken] project was made possible by the capital funding of $23B, but also displaced 1.5 million people and AFAICT is an environmental disaster[*] Those 1.5 million were displaced not by capitalism, but by the communist government. They never had a choice.


* Couldn't help but comment on the size! Just saw the generating capacity of the thing will be 23GW, 4-5x the size of the largest US plant at Palo Verde.
 
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  • #81
Art
China is a totalitarian dictatorship. Communism is an ideology centred on common ownership.

The dictatorship that governs China may have kept the name but they are no more communist than the Nazi Socialist Party were socialists.
 
  • #82
drankin
You must have had this conversation 20 years ago. These days China is no more communist than the US and has far fewer social programs to help the needy. It has all the worst elements of extreme capitalism without any of the controls such as multi-party elections and so corruption is rampant with all the problems that entails re product safety, individual rights etc..

There is one small town which practices communism and it is so rare it has become a tourist destination for young Chinese to see how their parents used to live.
I was there during Christmas 2005.
 
  • #83
mheslep
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China is a totalitarian dictatorship. Communism is an ideology centered on common ownership.
The dictatorship that governs China may have kept the name but they are no more communist than the Nazi Socialist Party were socialists.
Granted the ownership piece has changed but China was totalitarian dictatorship under Mao as well. So by this logic you're saying China has never been communist?

As I said it's a socio and economic question. One could argue ownership was never common in China under Mao, except in commonality of deprivation.
 
  • #84
Astronuc
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China is a totalitarian dictatorship. Communism is an ideology centred on common ownership.
The cavaets of that however is that the people aren't smart enough to run the economy or utilitize what they own, so a few people, i.e. the leaders of the communist party will do it for them. At best the 'communist' systems have been oligarchies, not true communist systems.
 
  • #85
These days China is no more communist than the US and has far fewer social programs to help the needy.
China's social programs as a whole undoubtedly have a smaller combined budget of those in the U.S. but I wouldn't be surprised if there are numerically more of them. There were all kinds of quasi-political quasi-social-program organizations set up in the last century and the Chinese culturally love fellowship societies.

I don't think it's accurate to say that China is no more communist than the U.S. Though greatly diminished the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8D%95%E4%BD%8D" [Broken] 单位 system of state-organized work units is still in place and still employs, pays pensions to, and plays mother-and-father to many people there. Up until 2003 a worker still needed the permission of his danwei to get married.
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  • #86
mjsd
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Who cares if china a super power? If t the united states focuses more on defending it national borders instead placing its armed forces in other countries, then we should not worry about another nation invading and taken over our country. Whats wrong with just being a 2nd rate world power?
I don't think the "US imperialists" would settle for 2nd place... being 1st means you have the ability to control everyone else (in a sense). So clearly, (in their opinion at least) the rise of China is a "real threat" to that dominance in the longer term.
 

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