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Why this is still Amerikkka

  1. Aug 6, 2004 #1
    Let me state emphatically that none of my best friends are white. However, some of the nicest and “got your back people” are white people. In fact, most of the whites I meet are much friendlier towards me than the blacks I initially meet…and I understand the reason why this is true…its not genetics, its learned defensive conditioning.

    What I would like to make clear is that in spite of the above truth, I have come to little faith in the white population. The reason being is that the test of true character only manifest during stress and duress. Thus, the niceties that I see in the white population, for far too many, simply reflects that everything much is going well for them and not the fact that they have learned to respect the black population that it shares the nation and world with. It is much better to be respected than liked or tolerated and the black population is not respected in America or the world.

    I have participated in many forums where the majority membership is white. Ubiquitously, there is always a “white supremacy/black inferiorityy” proponent on these forums. They are the only one who bring up the issue of race directly. Others usually do it through code words. Anyway, the methodology of the white supremacist is to offer up truths, such as crime statistics like homicide, or welfare participation rates, or IQ scores, or out of wedlock births, all of which are truly factual. They then take these facts and try to infer or deduce a genetic predisposition as a cause of these racial discrepancies.

    That’s not what bothers, me. These type racist have been spreading this propaganda for centuries, coming up with new rational and reasoning every few decades to coincide with the times and hook in new believers. What bothers me is that the majority of whites who read their propositions do not attempt to refute them. Even the white folks who I know are good people in their hearts can only manage to speak up and call them out as racist people. However, what seems to be most universal is that other whites cannot come up with a counter premise, inference and conclusion that contradicts these white supremacist theories.

    The fact that most whites fail to offer a counter thesis implies that they are more in agreement than disagreement. There is lies the danger. When times are good in the nation and it is not experiencing depression like economic stress (which will inevitably occur again in this nation) then most whites are simply deflect or ignore this white supremacy rhetoric, because they believe that its root is negative emotions which they equate with racism. It is not as if the object to the rational conclusions of the white supremacist, rather, they simply have a problem with their motives…which they believe to be racism and most whites today try to distance themselves from racist.

    When times become bad economically, one can be assured that many of those whites who could not offer a counter thesis to the white supremacist theories on blacks, will suddenly embrace those theories. They will start to conclude that the whites should have the available opportunities because blacks in general are inferior. They will come to resent any black person with good job and status, because they will automatically figure that there is a more qualifies white person who probably should have that job. Amerikkka, will then revert back to what it has known most of its history, which is that one group can lift itself up by putting another group down in a seesaw economic predicated upon discrimination and exploitation of one group to the benefit of another and resulting in an elevated rank and social status of one group over the other.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2004
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  3. Aug 6, 2004 #2

    Nereid

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    I infer from your post that you live in the US, and your reference to 'America' is that country, not the whole continent of North America or the two American continents.

    It seems that you are commenting on an aspect of US society today.

    I am curious about a number of things; would you be so kind as to help me understand?
    1) to what extent do you feel your commentary has relevance outside the US?
    2) you use the terms 'black' and 'white' frequently - what do you mean by these?
    3) you have posted in the Social Sciences section of PF, rather than the Politics and World Affairs. Why?

    I see that you are relatively new to PF, so you may not realise that a considerable number of members do not live in the US, nor are they US citizens.
     
  4. Aug 6, 2004 #3
    I am not sure what your point is. However, I feel that you are asking to be disliked. People who call others racist lose my respect in a hurry. If you have something to say, say it.

    If you think that I judge your opinion in any respect due to the fact that you are black and I am white, then you are deluding yourself. If you throw out this word racist, then I have nothing to say to you. Do you want to hold a conversation or not?

    There are a number of racist people in the world. If you label people who have an opinion that you do not share racist, then you are foolish or desperate, in my opinion.

    Please make your point and have us examine it on its merits, and do not attempt to throw in the word racist. You know, I certainly hope, that it does not apply in most cases. Using it is only asking to be shunned.
     
  5. Aug 7, 2004 #4

    Monique

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    Why oh why is there the need to talk in black and white terms? NoahAfrican, you are supporting racism by talking in such terms and generalizing populations by skin color alone.

    To know how rediculous it really is, go visit this website: http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/ A warning for people who judge on first glance (only look at the skin): look a little deeper and you'll see what the site really is about.
     
  6. Aug 7, 2004 #5
    Hilarious link. Monique

    Pondering about racism. Could it be a standard build in feature in the nature of creatures in general to stimulate biodiversity?

    Just a comparison. I have in my fish tank several platys in two variatys or sub races. Uniform red ones and red ones with black fins and tails. Guess what. Maximum racism. The black tail males don't tolerate any all red female in their surroundings and tend to chase them around. So this would tend to prevent breeding, which could lead to enough differentiation to have different species in several generations.

    This may also be one of the main reasons why the superflock of Ciclids in the African rift lakes have diversified so much in such a short time (Holocene) without geographic boundarys? Just intolerance of slight differences? Chiclids can be quite intolerant and racistic.

    So if mankind looses its natural racism, that would be the end of human evolution?
     
  7. Aug 7, 2004 #6
    Prometheus, I am not in need of your respect or affection. I am strong and confident and driven by self evaluation, self respect and love of myself. Personally, my evaluation of people is based on there effect, not intent. I can only discredit myself by implying that I know what their mental motivations are. However, I can observe and speak intelligently in regards the EFFECT of peoples words and actions. If these words or actions has the effect of elevating one race over the other, it is deemed racist, making the person who caused the effect racist. Ignorance is a leading cause of racism. Furthermore, opinions are not exempt from being racist in conclusions/effect. I disagree with any opinion that concludes that the major cause of the problems that black people face in this world is due to an inferior genetic predisposition relative to the races that are doing much better.

    Oh yes Monique, your argument is tantamount to a women who has been raped being accused of “asking for it” by virtue of the physical form that God gave her and that she highlighted by wearing certain clothing. To suggest that a people, black people, who have spent over 3 centuries having there lives exploited and shaped, rationalized and legalized by our race, should not talk in terms of black and white is disingenuous. Again, the present is simply the creation of the past, which you agreed with I believe. Therefore, our, black people, present has been shaped by the racism of the past and the only way that we can explain this is via the terms of its creation….which are black and white.

    The only way that society can do a proper accounting is to keep receipts of its transactions. The terms black and white are relevant because those were the social and economic accounts set up in the new world. The accounts and lives of millions of blacks were debited through slavery, discrimination, exploitation and colonization. This debit resulted in a credit to elite whites lives in the form of increased income and wealth. These elite whites, in turn, through trickle down economics, created opportunities for non elite whites, as the elites invested and spent their earning. Contemporaneously, the black population was kept from prospering equally from cash flow via discrimination against our race.

    Now, incredulously, some people think that we should all of a sudden stop noting black and white. Well, the effect of that, at this juncture, will simply result in the ignoring of how current inequality between blacks and white occurred. Thus, this leaves the proponents of black racial inferiority offering up the only explanation of racial socioeconomic differences.

    When a group of people are identified and targeted for oppression for centuries, by nations, peoples and laws, the only way to undue that damage is to target that same group of people for correction. If something was taken from a group of people, how can it be righteously given back if you stop noting who they were and who took it? Not that blacks should hold their breath in anticipation of getting back any thing from the groups and entities that took it. Rather, such knowledge helps black people refrain from internalizing a belief in their own inferiority, thus creating a self fulfilling prophecy. Perpetrated to the delight of white supremacist. Once the correction has been reconciled then, and only then, can one stop using the terms black and white.

    Nearly everyone wants to receive the benefits inherited and accrued from the past, that others created. Benefits, such as nations, freedoms, technology, rights. However, few people want to deal with the liabilities from the past that have accrued to the present (often the cost of creating the assets in the past). The problem is that present is a package deal. You cannot separate the enjoyment of the assets from the responsibilities to the liabilities. Most people today selfishly only want the benefits and often try to discredit and condemn those who compel them to address the liabilities.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2004
  8. Aug 7, 2004 #7

    Nereid

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    Well Andre, the behaviour of homo sap. males seems to be quite different from that of your black-tailed fish - they certainly do lots of chasing, but 'away'? :wink: Evidence? Ask some Finns (or Italians) about the meaning of the phrase 'scandinavian expedition'!
     
  9. Aug 7, 2004 #8

    Monique

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    Excellent post NoahAfrican.
    I certainly never suggested to forget about what happened in the past. In your first post you seem to have stigmatized white people as supremists. I'm sure groups like that exist, but it certainly is not of this century to think like that.
     
  10. Aug 7, 2004 #9
    I concurr with this and it seems that the only way NoahAfrican can handle someone that thinks different than him is to call that person a racist over and over again. As shown in the "homicide statistics by race & gender" thread. Anyone that doesn't believe exactly what he believes, that the difference in human behavior can solely be linked to environmental reasons, then to him you are a racist. By his definition, Monique would also be a racist. A person who seems to agree what several aspects that NoahAfrican has stated but is still willing to give genetic factors at least a consideration and that it's at least worth looking into.

    Instead of calling everyone that disagrees with you a racist over and over, you might want to try arguing on merit instead.
     
  11. Aug 7, 2004 #10
    What does it mean to say that it is not this century to think that way? How does the century prevent people from thinking “that” way? What is to prevent the return of people thinking that way if they do not currently? Is forward the only direction that racial progress can go? If most whites today cannot explain WHY that the vast majority of blacks on this planet are impoverished or why blacks commit a disproportionate share of crimes, or why black educational testing levels are below others…without using some genetic theories of traits that make us perform below the norms of others…then by default they must accept these propositions of genetics. Of course…whites can simply not think about these problems and therefore not fall into the binary trap of environment or genetics to explain it.

    To form racial conslusion from genetics...when we know much less than we know about how all the bodies chemicals and proties work in conjuction with one and other, while dismissing the facts of history and that every action has reaction....implies a motivation to want to believe that blacks are inferior.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2004
  12. Aug 7, 2004 #11

    Monique

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    Education.
     
  13. Aug 7, 2004 #12
    I do not think that education prevents prejudice...there have been many educated racist. Education is selective...thus...people only choose to educate themselves when they see a personal benefit. Many do not see a personal benefit in figuring out why the world blacks are suffering so. In fact, many whites want to avoid the subject because the fear that it may point back at the actions of SOME whites against blacks. Thus, they fear feeling a sense of guilt and responsibility or moral delemma eminating from this potential truth. Consquently....the do not select this realm of informal education.
     
  14. Aug 7, 2004 #13
    If that is the way you feel then you won't get the respect. So quit whining about how you can't get any respect if you act like you don't want any.

    Don't expect ME or ANYONE to pay for the sins of our white honkey ancestors. I as well as a lot of other people were taught to judge people for the person and not the color of their skin. But since you like to complain about how poorly you are treated and insist that it is based on your skin color what you are actually doing is conditioning some of the white honkeys to believe that black means everything that you are saying. Some of the white folks see the blacks as playing the victim.

    Yes, blacks have been treated very poorly in the past. I think we can all agree to that. But nowhere is there a universal law that says I or anyone else owes any particual group of people squat based on the history of their dead relatives. I will treat you the same way I treat every other human being.
     
  15. Aug 7, 2004 #14

    Kerrie

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    excellent website monique... :smile:
     
  16. Aug 7, 2004 #15

    Integral

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    This video should be required watching for Americans of all color.

    Can it really be true that to be White is to be Racist?
     
  17. Aug 7, 2004 #16
    Averagesupernova, now would it not be contradictory to expect for me to have expectations that whites will pay for the sins of their forefathers, given the fact that I have little confidence that the majority of the white population are not white supremacist? That does not compute.

    Furthermore, what I do expect is the continuation of contemporary whites to enjoy the benefits and assets accrued from a past that the did not create. None of you fought in the revolutionary wars that freed the colony from Britain. Or if you are in another country, none of you created the nation and its independence and freedoms. None of you created the wealth from centuries ago that attracted your tired, huddled, masses of ancestors who yearned to be free from tyranny of past Europe. Yet, all of you enjoy those benefits today. How can a person rationalize they have a right to all these benefits to them from the past, yet have the audacity to argue that they are not entitled the past liabilities because the did not create them. That is pure blatant and atrocious hypocrisy. If one can rationalize not being responsible for past liabilities, then they should forfeit the benefit off all assets they inherited via citizenship to their nation as well.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2004
  18. Aug 7, 2004 #17

    Monique

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    There are special programs that provide people from certain backgrounds with extra help.

    Again you sound so bitter and are generalizing people, the thing you don't like to be done to you. The world extends past the borders of the United States, you seem to forget that. It is not all just about 'blacks and whites'.

    In a few sentences: what would you like people to do about the current situation?
     
  19. Aug 7, 2004 #18

    Evo

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    This makes no sense. I have received no financial benefits for being a white American. Specifically what benefits am I supposed to be getting that a black American wouldn't?

    People have been enslaved since the beginning of time, usually white slaves. Descendants of white slaves have not asked for compensation from the people of the country in which they were enslaved.

    I do not personally know anyone that feels superior to non whites. I disagree that most white Americans are guilty of feelings of white supremacy.
     
  20. Aug 7, 2004 #19
    Yeah, this pretty much makes ZERO sense to me. So since I was not there to fight previous wars or whatever, then I have no entitlement to those benefits? Do you have any idea how an organized society works? This is like saying that if someone murdered a large number of people then all of those peoples' descendants have the right to assume that many generations of the murderers' descendants owes them big-time.

    I can't believe that you are holding me responsible for something that NOT ONE of my ancestors ever did. My ancestors moved here in the late 19th century.
     
  21. Aug 8, 2004 #20

    Monique

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    If actions of ancestors created a lag of development, yes: it is the responsibility of the nation to make up for the lag. I don't think anyone is personally responsible.

    If through slavery families face a harder time climbing up the social ladder, they can make use of the programs that were made for them to use.
     
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