# Windows versus the World: Royal Rumble I

1. Apr 1, 2004

### dduardo

Staff Emeritus
Ok, since we hijacked wolram's spybot thread with a lot of Windows versus Linux/Unix/OS X bickering, I thought the best way to handle this was to start fresh and try to have a civilized debate on the topic. Personal threats, baseless comments, and whining will not be tolorated. If you think Windows or any other operating system is the best, don't just say it is, support your arguments with facts.

Let the battle begin !

2. Apr 1, 2004

### ahrkron

Staff Emeritus
I wholeheartedly go for Linux. Fact: I have a Linux machine at work and a Windows XP pro at home. Both always connected to the internet, both heavily used. The first one has NEVER had any pop-up ad problems, viruses, or configuration issues. The XP one, at home, is a quite different story.

3. Apr 2, 2004

### chroot

Staff Emeritus
It's hard to say one is "best." Each is better suited for its own sort of task.

Linux is the best all-around bleeding edge server platform. FreeBSD or OpenBSD is the best for mission-critical servers that don't need the latest-and-greatest technologies. MacOS X is best for people who appreciate the combination of a powerful operating system and a very streamlined interface, but don't really feel like compiling kernels to get their sound cards to work. Windows is good for novice users who just need a cheap computer to browse the web and send emails.

I would not suggest using Windows for a mission-critical server, nor would I suggest that granny learn to make bzImage. Each has its own utility.

What do I find myself using most? Either Linux or Windows with about equal frequency. There are a few things (like coding) that are more comfortable under Linux, and there are a few things (like tending to my music collection) that are more comfortable under Windows. I'm not picky about which OS I'm running at any given time. All of the basic functionality -- web browser, music player, chat programs -- exist on both and are equally easy to use on both. Generally, I'll continue use whichever OS happens to be booted until I need to do something under the the other.

I should probably just get VMWare.

- Warren

4. Apr 2, 2004

### chroot

Staff Emeritus
dduardo,

As moderator of this forum, I'd also like you to make sure anyone who makes a specific claim of an operating system's strength or weakness is capable of substantiating the claim with evidence. For example, saying that OpenBSD must have viruses (even though you don't know of any) because anti-virus software exists (even though you don't know of any) is a hollow statement and should not be permitted.

- Warren

5. Apr 2, 2004

### wolram

i started out with win98 and to be honest was quite happy with it,
i upgraded to win XP after reading that win98 will not be supported
after a certain date, now i have XP i find i have problems that i didn't
have with 98, pop ups, spy ware, i know these problems can be
overcome with additional software, but why do i get more problems
from an updated version of windows? i regularly go to MS help and
download critical updates, OK i could set my pc to do this automatically,
but why do i need to do this for XP and not 98?
i can understand that MS cant defend against ever more sophisticated
attacks, but i did expect better "out of the box", protection from
this OS.

6. Apr 2, 2004

### Dagenais

You wholeheartedly go for Linux, eh? Yet, you use Windows XP Professional at home for enjoyment. Usually it's the opposite: Windows @ work, Other OS @ home.

In your case, you use Windows for pleasure.

My XP never has any pop-ups, viruses (I'm hoping never) or config issues. Besides AIM popping-up a news page, I witness none of this. If you mean pop-ups on the internet, then feel free to download a browser with ad-blocking software, nobody is stopping you. But if you want every site on the internet to work with your browser, then keep Microsoft IE and download Google, pretty simple.

No, coding is comfortable under Windows. The popular programming languages all work great on Windows. There are tons of languages to choose from. If you want your applications to get exposure, there is no platform better to write it on than Windows with the widest audience.

I use OS X everyday. It's a good OS, but don't exagerrate it. The cartoonish interface, dock and spinning beach ball will piss you off more than anything in Windows is no time.
No.
For a cheap computer to browse the internet and send Emails, just head to Wal-mart for a $200 computer running Mandrake. Windows XP Pro is a lot more expensive than most consumer operating systems. ROFL. It was 2 opinions against 1. OpenBSD obviously has viruses and bug issues - they have a mailing list dedicated to it. Subscribe. If it was "virus free" then it wouldn't have one. Like the other person said, you can't truly believe OpenBSD is completely virus free. Somebody had to have written some virus to attack it. It's common sense vs a biased opinion. 2 users have noted this, it's just that you're denying it. When did you upgrade to XP? Did you have stuff like Kazaa, Morpheus on 98? The differences in the programs you have on each OS make a difference. 7. Apr 2, 2004 ### chroot Staff Emeritus Well, no, it isn't. Try coding up something that hacks together python, perl, and java with some shell scripts under Windows. Try fighting with Window's lame-ass shell and the horrible 8.3 vestiges still lingering in many of the most basic commands. Try navigating a directory structure with directory names with spaces, or names longer than 8 characters. Try running a real build environment. You have to pay$ for tools that can make Windows a decent coding platform, and they're all just rip-offs of free *nix tools.
I don't recall mentioning Windows XP Pro.
It's not an opinion, professor. No viruses exist for OpenBSD. No anti-virus programs exist for OpenBSD. There certainly are bugs, but I hope you understand the difference. If you're going to continue to say moronic things like Somebody had to have written some virus to attack it, then you need to provide some shred of evidence that it's true. Guess what, Sherlock: it ain't.

- Warren

8. Apr 2, 2004

### faust9

Mmmmm OSX.

I've got a BSD 486 gateway/firewall sitting in my closet (never crashes and is secure).
I have a PII 333 Linux box (X crashes from time to time but the puter rarely encounters a problem drastic enough to shut down--I run Gentoo BTW).
I have a P4 2.4G XP box for my wife. Not too many problems but not as stable as my *nix computers. More games is a plus, but all the nast bugs put together by script kiddies is a major minus.

By far my favorite 'pute is my G4 iBook. Mmmmm OSX--built around BSD with a snazy interface. I dig the silly cartoon poof when you remove something from the dock. I like the dock (I use a similar dock setup on my PII with KDE but it still isn't as nice as OSX). I like the easy software update system. I like the way software is installed. I like xCode. I like all the things Apple does to make a good software/hardeware package. I'd like more software and hopefully someday OSX will have enough market share to stimulate more development.

My $0.02. Mac OSX all the way. Secure, stable, and slick. 9. Apr 2, 2004 ### Dagenais Sure it is. It just so happens that 2 people took an objective view, and just so happened to be right. Yes...lame-ass. Indeed. You can't argue with that. Sure they do: http://www.centralcommand.com/openbsd_products.html [Broken] http://www.f-prot.com/products/home_use/bsd/ http://www.johannrain-softwareentwi...us_for_linux_freebsd_openbsd_mail_servers.htm http://translate.google.com/transla...BSD&start=10&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017 10. Apr 2, 2004 ### chroot Staff Emeritus *evil grin* I was waiting for you to find programs like AntiVir. You've done well -- you found the pages. Step two is to read the pages. Notice that, in each case, the software is not designed to detect viruses that attack OpenBSD (there aren't any), but instead to detect Windows viruses stuck inside files residing on the server, or stuck inside emails passing through the server. I'll repeat my original challenge. Give me the name of one, just one OpenBSD virus. If you can't do it, shut the hell up. - Warren 11. Apr 2, 2004 ### faust9 Ahhhhh, your walking a fine line with the AV software for BSD you posted. The programs in the above links run on OBSD but they are not for preventing OBSD specific critters. They are to filter out virus' and trojans that can affect other OS--specifically M$. The AV software isn't "For" BSD but rather for the benefit of M$and they just happen to run on BSD. Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017 12. Apr 2, 2004 ### faust9 Someday I'll learn to type faster. 13. Apr 2, 2004 ### chroot Staff Emeritus It's all right, faust9. I was sitting at the ready at my keyboard, waiting for him to fall into the trap I set for him. It's not as good as beer, but it's fun. - Warren 14. Apr 2, 2004 ### faust9 lol too funny. 15. Apr 2, 2004 ### The_Professional And Microsoft used to run BSD on their Hotmail servers. Linky:http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/23348.html 16. Apr 3, 2004 ### ahrkron Staff Emeritus You're making assumptions. It is not me who uses the computer at home. I myself rarely use it. For pleasure and work, I go for Linux. Some three years ago, I used to prepare documents on Word and presentations on PP, and that was about it. Now I definitely prefer tex (and Linux) for both. Good for you. The way I see it, Linux is excelent for serious work, and Windows is ok for entertainment and for people that dont want to spend time maintaing the computer, but it seems to fail even at that, since you need to spend time learning about adware and security anyway (or getting a friend to fix it). BTW, I stopped getting any ads when I downloaded Mozilla and stopped using IE. I would erase it if I could. 17. Apr 3, 2004 ### ahrkron Staff Emeritus Beautiful! (Greg, we need that devil smiley!) 18. Apr 3, 2004 ### dduardo Staff Emeritus Maybe I should change the title of this thread to Dagenais versus the World. In order to balance this thread out I'll name some positive things about Windows: Lots of intregated components (Windows Media player with IE, IE with practically everything, CD burning with Explorer) Consistant looking desktop Good driver support Easy network/print sharing setup Wide range of applications Windows XP SP2 will include a popup block and a security center that monitors your firewall, antivirus and checks for windows updates. Later I'll talk about the advantages of Linux, but I want some more feedback on the positive aspects of Windows. 19. Apr 3, 2004 ### wolram DDURADO Lots of intregated components (Windows Media player with IE, IE with practically everything, CD burning with Explorer) Consistant looking desktop Good driver support Easy network/print sharing setup Wide range of applications -------------------------------------------------------------------------- to me this is all whistles and bells, a lot of people use a pc primarily for the internet, as such windows opened up the world to many people, but then it destroyed it with its leaky security, if it wasn't for the uniquity of windows it would have been on the scrap heap years ago, if MS bring out new versions it should be guaranteed to be more secure, but how does the end user know unless he she shells out$,£, and will MS refund your money if it isn't? " roll around
laughing", BGs could announce tomorrow that support will be withdrawn
for all present OS, and force many people to spend more of there
hard earned cash, so what consumer protection do we have?

20. Apr 3, 2004

### dduardo

Staff Emeritus
Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
21. Apr 3, 2004

### Dagenais

Do they now? Or wait, they USED to. The key word.

Was it unworthy so they dumped it?

Wasn't it you who first fell into the trap I set that proved you didn't even bother to read the explanation on why Windows isn't more unsafe than the competition?

Just because you've never seen one doesn't mean it is non-existent. That works almost as good as your "Windows lame-ass" defense.

Is Gates also a "lame-ass"?

Show me a non-lame ass article that claims, "No virus can ever be written for OpenBSD"

Hardly. I got support from that other person, who had the common sense to admit someone had to have written a virus on OpenBSD that didn't spread.

There are plenty of Windows users here that may ***** about Windows, but at the end of the day they're still using it. Enough said. Even the blind supporters here use it - what does that say about them?

Now nobody answered my question. This website was made on a what? The Server is run on...? What does Mr. Bernardt the admin of this site use?

Or did people purpose avoid the question?

Last edited: Apr 3, 2004
22. Apr 3, 2004

### chroot

Staff Emeritus
No viruses exist for OpenBSD, and you're an idiot for ever having opened your mouth on the issue. Learn how to admit your mistakes, it makes you more respectable.

Windows' shell is definitely lame-ass. There is no question that it does quite a bit less than even the most basic *nix shell.

pf runs on Linux. We use apache as our webserver. The database is MySQL, and also runs on Linux. The code for the site was developed on Linux.

What Greg uses on his desktop seems rather irrelevant to me.

- Warren

23. Apr 3, 2004

### faust9

Uhmmm, No. I didn't "fall into the trap." Read my post wherein I state what chroot says (It took me a few minutes longer to type it in though). So, in respons to "...you didn't bother reading..." I did take the time to read what you said. You OTH did not read what I said about virus software being available to run on OBSD not "for" OBSD.

Wow, you get awfully agitated when people speak I'll of big brother don't you?

Can someone write a virus for BSD? probably, but unlikely. BSD kernel has been combed over many many times by dedicated volunteers (like linux) so there is less chance for a BSD virus. There are viruses out there that attack libraries or programs such as sendmail, but those are not BSD specific.

24. Apr 3, 2004

### chroot

Staff Emeritus
You've got to be kidding me. I hope to god no one pays you for your computer knowledge.

- Warren

25. Apr 3, 2004

### The_Professional

Irrelevant. You will never know. The point is they have used it and still using it. If you read the article their server infrastructure is still stored on a BSD kit.

Hasty Generalization.

It's called playing devil's advocate. Because I'm not coming from a Microsoft is a piece of **** bias. I know the advantages and disadvantages of the OS. To argue that It's a very secure OS is weak and pointless.

Last edited: Apr 3, 2004
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