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Windows versus the World: Royal Rumble I

  1. Apr 1, 2004 #1

    dduardo

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    Ok, since we hijacked wolram's spybot thread with a lot of Windows versus Linux/Unix/OS X bickering, I thought the best way to handle this was to start fresh and try to have a civilized debate on the topic. Personal threats, baseless comments, and whining will not be tolorated. If you think Windows or any other operating system is the best, don't just say it is, support your arguments with facts.

    Let the battle begin !
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 1, 2004 #2

    ahrkron

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    I wholeheartedly go for Linux. Fact: I have a Linux machine at work and a Windows XP pro at home. Both always connected to the internet, both heavily used. The first one has NEVER had any pop-up ad problems, viruses, or configuration issues. The XP one, at home, is a quite different story.
     
  4. Apr 2, 2004 #3

    chroot

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    It's hard to say one is "best." Each is better suited for its own sort of task.

    Linux is the best all-around bleeding edge server platform. FreeBSD or OpenBSD is the best for mission-critical servers that don't need the latest-and-greatest technologies. MacOS X is best for people who appreciate the combination of a powerful operating system and a very streamlined interface, but don't really feel like compiling kernels to get their sound cards to work. Windows is good for novice users who just need a cheap computer to browse the web and send emails.

    I would not suggest using Windows for a mission-critical server, nor would I suggest that granny learn to make bzImage. Each has its own utility.

    What do I find myself using most? Either Linux or Windows with about equal frequency. There are a few things (like coding) that are more comfortable under Linux, and there are a few things (like tending to my music collection) that are more comfortable under Windows. I'm not picky about which OS I'm running at any given time. All of the basic functionality -- web browser, music player, chat programs -- exist on both and are equally easy to use on both. Generally, I'll continue use whichever OS happens to be booted until I need to do something under the the other.

    I should probably just get VMWare.

    - Warren
     
  5. Apr 2, 2004 #4

    chroot

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    dduardo,

    As moderator of this forum, I'd also like you to make sure anyone who makes a specific claim of an operating system's strength or weakness is capable of substantiating the claim with evidence. For example, saying that OpenBSD must have viruses (even though you don't know of any) because anti-virus software exists (even though you don't know of any) is a hollow statement and should not be permitted.

    - Warren
     
  6. Apr 2, 2004 #5

    wolram

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    i started out with win98 and to be honest was quite happy with it,
    i upgraded to win XP after reading that win98 will not be supported
    after a certain date, now i have XP i find i have problems that i didn't
    have with 98, pop ups, spy ware, i know these problems can be
    overcome with additional software, but why do i get more problems
    from an updated version of windows? i regularly go to MS help and
    download critical updates, OK i could set my pc to do this automatically,
    but why do i need to do this for XP and not 98?
    i can understand that MS cant defend against ever more sophisticated
    attacks, but i did expect better "out of the box", protection from
    this OS.
     
  7. Apr 2, 2004 #6
    You wholeheartedly go for Linux, eh? Yet, you use Windows XP Professional at home for enjoyment. Usually it's the opposite: Windows @ work, Other OS @ home.

    In your case, you use Windows for pleasure.

    My XP never has any pop-ups, viruses (I'm hoping never) or config issues. Besides AIM popping-up a news page, I witness none of this. If you mean pop-ups on the internet, then feel free to download a browser with ad-blocking software, nobody is stopping you. But if you want every site on the internet to work with your browser, then keep Microsoft IE and download Google, pretty simple.

    No, coding is comfortable under Windows. The popular programming languages all work great on Windows. There are tons of languages to choose from. If you want your applications to get exposure, there is no platform better to write it on than Windows with the widest audience.

    I use OS X everyday. It's a good OS, but don't exagerrate it. The cartoonish interface, dock and spinning beach ball will piss you off more than anything in Windows is no time.
    No.
    For a cheap computer to browse the internet and send Emails, just head to Wal-mart for a $200 computer running Mandrake.
    Windows XP Pro is a lot more expensive than most consumer operating systems.

    ROFL. It was 2 opinions against 1. OpenBSD obviously has viruses and bug issues - they have a mailing list dedicated to it. Subscribe. If it was "virus free" then it wouldn't have one.
    Like the other person said, you can't truly believe OpenBSD is completely virus free. Somebody had to have written some virus to attack it.
    It's common sense vs a biased opinion. 2 users have noted this, it's just that you're denying it.

    When did you upgrade to XP?
    Did you have stuff like Kazaa, Morpheus on 98? The differences in the programs you have on each OS make a difference.
     
  8. Apr 2, 2004 #7

    chroot

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    Well, no, it isn't. Try coding up something that hacks together python, perl, and java with some shell scripts under Windows. Try fighting with Window's lame-ass shell and the horrible 8.3 vestiges still lingering in many of the most basic commands. Try navigating a directory structure with directory names with spaces, or names longer than 8 characters. Try running a real build environment. You have to pay $$$ for tools that can make Windows a decent coding platform, and they're all just rip-offs of free *nix tools.
    I don't recall mentioning Windows XP Pro.
    It's not an opinion, professor. No viruses exist for OpenBSD. No anti-virus programs exist for OpenBSD. There certainly are bugs, but I hope you understand the difference. If you're going to continue to say moronic things like Somebody had to have written some virus to attack it, then you need to provide some shred of evidence that it's true. Guess what, Sherlock: it ain't.

    - Warren
     
  9. Apr 2, 2004 #8
    Mmmmm OSX.

    I've got a BSD 486 gateway/firewall sitting in my closet (never crashes and is secure).
    I have a PII 333 Linux box (X crashes from time to time but the puter rarely encounters a problem drastic enough to shut down--I run Gentoo BTW).
    I have a P4 2.4G XP box for my wife. Not too many problems but not as stable as my *nix computers. More games is a plus, but all the nast bugs put together by script kiddies is a major minus.

    By far my favorite 'pute is my G4 iBook. Mmmmm OSX--built around BSD with a snazy interface. I dig the silly cartoon poof when you remove something from the dock. I like the dock (I use a similar dock setup on my PII with KDE but it still isn't as nice as OSX). I like the easy software update system. I like the way software is installed. I like xCode. I like all the things Apple does to make a good software/hardeware package. I'd like more software and hopefully someday OSX will have enough market share to stimulate more development.

    My $0.02. Mac OSX all the way. Secure, stable, and slick.
     
  10. Apr 2, 2004 #9
    Sure it is. It just so happens that 2 people took an objective view, and just so happened to be right.

    Yes...lame-ass. Indeed.

    You can't argue with that.


    Sure they do:

    http://www.centralcommand.com/openbsd_products.html

    http://www.f-prot.com/products/home_use/bsd/

    http://www.johannrain-softwareentwi...us_for_linux_freebsd_openbsd_mail_servers.htm

    http://translate.google.com/transla...BSD&start=10&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2004
  11. Apr 2, 2004 #10

    chroot

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    *evil grin*

    I was waiting for you to find programs like AntiVir. You've done well -- you found the pages. Step two is to read the pages.

    Notice that, in each case, the software is not designed to detect viruses that attack OpenBSD (there aren't any), but instead to detect Windows viruses stuck inside files residing on the server, or stuck inside emails passing through the server.

    I'll repeat my original challenge. Give me the name of one, just one OpenBSD virus. If you can't do it, shut the hell up.

    - Warren
     
  12. Apr 2, 2004 #11
    Ahhhhh, your walking a fine line with the AV software for BSD you posted. The programs in the above links run on OBSD but they are not for preventing OBSD specific critters. They are to filter out virus' and trojans that can affect other OS--specifically M$. The AV software isn't "For" BSD but rather for the benefit of M$ and they just happen to run on BSD.
     
  13. Apr 2, 2004 #12
    Someday I'll learn to type faster.
     
  14. Apr 2, 2004 #13

    chroot

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    It's all right, faust9. I was sitting at the ready at my keyboard, waiting for him to fall into the trap I set for him. It's not as good as beer, but it's fun.

    - Warren
     
  15. Apr 2, 2004 #14
    lol too funny.
     
  16. Apr 2, 2004 #15
    And Microsoft used to run BSD on their Hotmail servers.

    Linky:http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/23348.html
     
  17. Apr 3, 2004 #16

    ahrkron

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    You're making assumptions.

    It is not me who uses the computer at home. I myself rarely use it. For pleasure and work, I go for Linux. Some three years ago, I used to prepare documents on Word and presentations on PP, and that was about it. Now I definitely prefer tex (and Linux) for both.

    Good for you. The way I see it, Linux is excelent for serious work, and Windows is ok for entertainment and for people that dont want to spend time maintaing the computer, but it seems to fail even at that, since you need to spend time learning about adware and security anyway (or getting a friend to fix it).

    BTW, I stopped getting any ads when I downloaded Mozilla and stopped using IE. I would erase it if I could.
     
  18. Apr 3, 2004 #17

    ahrkron

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    Beautiful! :biggrin: (Greg, we need that devil smiley!)
     
  19. Apr 3, 2004 #18

    dduardo

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    Maybe I should change the title of this thread to Dagenais versus the World. :biggrin:

    In order to balance this thread out I'll name some positive things about Windows:

    Lots of intregated components (Windows Media player with IE, IE with practically everything, CD burning with Explorer)
    Consistant looking desktop
    Good driver support
    Easy network/print sharing setup
    Wide range of applications

    Windows XP SP2 will include a popup block and a security center that monitors your firewall, antivirus and checks for windows updates.

    Later I'll talk about the advantages of Linux, but I want some more feedback on the positive aspects of Windows.
     
  20. Apr 3, 2004 #19

    wolram

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    DDURADO
    Lots of intregated components (Windows Media player with IE, IE with practically everything, CD burning with Explorer)
    Consistant looking desktop
    Good driver support
    Easy network/print sharing setup
    Wide range of applications
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    to me this is all whistles and bells, a lot of people use a pc primarily
    for the internet, as such windows opened up the world to many
    people, but then it destroyed it with its leaky security, if it wasn't
    for the uniquity of windows it would have been on the scrap heap
    years ago, if MS bring out new versions it should be guaranteed to
    be more secure, but how does the end user know unless he she
    shells out $,£, and will MS refund your money if it isn't? " roll around
    laughing", BGs could announce tomorrow that support will be withdrawn
    for all present OS, and force many people to spend more of there
    hard earned cash, so what consumer protection do we have?
     
  21. Apr 3, 2004 #20

    dduardo

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