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News WMD scam in preparation?

  1. Apr 14, 2004 #1
    WMD scam in preparation or more ...? Or is this a scam about a scam?

    Is the US Planting WMDs in Iraq?
    Tehran Times* 12 April 2004

    BASRA, April 12 (MNA) -– Fifty days after the first reports that the U.S. forces were unloading weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in southern Iraq, new reports about the movement of these weapons have been disclosed.

    Sources in Iraq speculate that occupation forces are using the recent unrest in Iraq to divert attention from their surreptitious shipments of WMD into the country.

    An Iraqi source close to the Basra Governor’s Office told the MNA that new information shows that a large part of the WMD, which was secretly brought to southern and western Iraq over the past month, are in containers falsely labeled as containers of the Maeresk shipping company and some consignments bearing the labels of organizations such as the Red Cross or the USAID in order to disguise them as relief shipments.

    The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, added that Iraqi officials including forces loyal to the Iraqi Governing Council stationed in southern Iraq have been forbidden from inspecting or supervising the transportation of these consignments. He went on to say that the occupation forces have ordered Iraqi officials to forward any questions on the issue to the coalition forces. Even the officials of the international relief organizations have informed the Iraqi officials that they would only accept responsibility for relief shipments which have been registered and managed by their organizations.

    The Iraqi source also confirmed the report about suspicious trucks with fake Saudi and Jordanian license plates entering Iraq at night last week, stressing that the Saudi and Jordanian border guards did not attempt to inspect the trucks but simply delivered them to the U.S. and British forces stationed on Iraq’s borders.

    However, the source expressed ignorance whether the governments of Saudi Arabia and Jordan were aware of such movements.

    A professor of physics at Baghdad University also told the MNA correspondent that a group of his colleagues who are highly specialized in military, chemical and biological fields have been either bribed or threatened during the last weeks to provide written information on what they know about various programs and research centers and the possible storage of WMD equipment.

    The professor also said these people have been openly asked to confirm or deny the existence of research or related WMD equipment. A large number of these scientists, who are believed to be under the surveillance of U.S. intelligence operatives, have claimed that if they refuse to comply with this request, they may be killed or arrested on charges of concealing the truth if these weapons are found by the Bush administration in the future.

    He said that the Iraqi scientists believe their lives would be in danger if they decline to cooperate with the occupation forces, especially when they recall that senior U.S. officer Michael Peterson once said, “Iraqi scientists are at any case a threat to the U.S. administration, whether they talk or not.”

    A source close to the Iraqi Governing Council said, “In the meantime, many suspect containers disguised as fuel supplies have been moved about by some units of the U.S. special forces. The move has been carried out under heavy security measures. Also, there are unofficial reports that the containers held biological and bacteriological toxins in liquid form. It is possible that the news about the discovery of the WMDs would be announced later.”

    He also said that such mixtures had been used by the Saddam regime in the 1990s.

    The source added that some provocative actions such as the closure of Al-Hawza periodical by U.S. administrator Paul Bremer, the secret meetings between his envoys with some extremist groups who have no relations with the Iraqi Governing Council, the sudden upsurge in violence in central and southern Iraq, a number of activities which have stoked up the wrath of the prominent Shia clerics, and finally, the spate of kidnappings and the baseless charges against the Iranian charge d’affaires in Baghdad are providing the necessary smokescreen for the transportation of the WMD to their intended locations.

    He said they are quite aware that the White House in cooperation with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has directly tasked the Defense Department to hide these weapons. Given the recent scandals to the effect that the U.S. president was privy to the 9/11 plot, they might try to immediately announce the discovery of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in order to overshadow the scandals and prevent a further decline of Bush’s public opinion rating as the election approaches.

    Last edited: Apr 14, 2004
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 14, 2004 #2
    tehran times eh?
  4. Apr 14, 2004 #3
    Would Fox TV be more relaible?
    Can you tell?
  5. Apr 14, 2004 #4
    Pelastration, surely you are aware that only USA news services are reliable! Sheesh!
  6. Apr 14, 2004 #5
    Perhaps, ANY news source that is not a clear and defined enemy of our country, that hasn't been labeled in the axis of evil, doesn't have sanctions, and I dunno.....perhaps doesn't have tons of reasons to do everything in it's power to try to discredit the country that just said hello on either side of it???

    Oh yes, but of course, I said that only US news services are reliable :rolleyes:
  7. Apr 14, 2004 #6
    Manufacturing Evidence

    Before the Second Iraq War even started, I predicted that the US would manufacture EVIDENCE of weapons of mass-destruction (which they quite clearly did!) in order to justify a pre-emptive attack and invasion.
    The US perhaps could have got away with "planting" WMD, if they'd been intelligent enough to do it, say six months ago.
    However, I don't think ANYBODY in the world, would be stupid enough to believe the US, if they claim that they "only just found the non-existent weapons."
  8. Apr 14, 2004 #7
    No, the USA has basically lost all credibility as far as this sort of thing is concerned. Politicians in USA-allied nations may say whatever they like in support of the US regime, but people don't trust the USA government.
  9. Apr 14, 2004 #8


    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Speaking of credibility, conspiracy theory websites are not credible sources.
  10. Apr 14, 2004 #9
    Attacking the source is a logical fallacy, russ. Funny that Bush's government does it every time someone quits and tries to tell the truth about things.

    Can you respond to the material? Or can you only attack the source in an attempt to discredit the material?
  11. Apr 14, 2004 #10

    I have laid out a clear reasoning for why the tehran times should be questioned on this. All you have to do is show ONE international source with credibility that has picked this article up.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2004
  12. Apr 15, 2004 #11
    It is a possibility that the US govt could manufacture & plant WMD in Iraq, but if they were going to do that, you'd think they already would have, as GWB has repeatedly said that finding WMD was irrelevant to the war.
  13. Apr 15, 2004 #12
    A real definitive article.....

    "Sources in Iraq speculate that occupation forces are using the recent unrest in Iraq to divert attention from their surreptitious shipments of WMD into the country."

    Then someone, in Iraq, being asked about WMD!?!?? no joke!
    "A professor of physics at Baghdad University also told the MNA correspondent that a group of his colleagues who are highly specialized in military, chemical and biological fields have been either bribed or threatened during the last weeks to provide written information on what they know about various programs and research centers and the possible storage of WMD equipment."

    This is the second hand information that we are to rely on?
    "He said that the Iraqi scientists believe...."

    Unofficial!? more speculation?
    "Also, there are unofficial reports that the containers held biological and bacteriological toxins in liquid form."
  14. Apr 15, 2004 #13

    But don't you get it? That's the whole point! Bush is so smart, he plays dumb, and then does something so unexpected that it's the ultimate cover up! [/foil hat]

    It's an absolute possibility, but I agree. There's no point now. Finding weapons would do nothing for anyone, plus the chance of it being exposed is so great, and so possible, there would be no reason to risk the whole election on it.
  15. Apr 15, 2004 #14
    No, you have laid out a clear reason for those on the aggressive side of a propaganda conflict to distrust the news of a nation they have labelled as untrustworthy, which nobody else sees as untrustworthy. The fact that you see the Tehran Times as untrustworthy has absolutely no bearing on whether they are untrustworthy or not. You speak from a clearly biased perspective.

    Conversely, you might try showing some objective reason for stating that the Tehran Times is lying.

    Why respond to a thread if your only capability is to attack the source, and not address the material?

    Um... The logical fallacies are things taught in logic courses in universities around the world. In different places they are often named and organised in different ways, but in general they all have the same components. There are many websites detailing these things. Or you could go to the library and check out a book on logical debating. Here are a few more you might find useful:

    One: the Tehran Times.
    However, given your stated bias, try these:
    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0413-02.htm [Broken]
    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1700 [Broken]
    http://www.stlimc.org/front.php3?article_id=13597&group=webcast [Broken]

    Lots of news websites are carrying the story. But I'm sure you'll find reasons why they're all evil, untrustworthy, et cetera.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  16. Apr 15, 2004 #15

    1>Do you believe everything you find on the internet? Or only if it fits your goals of demonizing anything and everything the USA does?
    The TEHRAN TIMES is a state controlled media, are you just trying to be blind to this conflict of interest???

    But that is a moot point, since the article is from the Mehr news agency.....
    And I just won't waste my time. Anyone who wishes to, can look at the source themselves....

    2>Perhaps because it's a valid question before people embark on a 10 page debate on false information? What do you want me to do? Go out and find these invisble sources who are speculating things? :rolleyes: ONE other news service sir!

    3>The point about you wasting time with fallacy talk, is that you use it incorrectly half the time to scapegoat your way out of an argument. Luckily for you, Zero has been a pruning master lately, and the wonderful strawman thread where you posted a link to the very action you were doing was exposed, has been deleted.

    2>Sure thing Adam, besides that fact that every link you jsut posted is nothing more than a reposting of the original article :rolleyes: In a sec, I'll go open a geocities account and post it there too. Again, since you want to continue on and on about "logical" this and that, try to stay on track and I'll try not to lose you again. One credible NEWS service. Not one website that just publishes other peoples stories. Reposting the same story on a bunch of sites that rank lower on traffic than my own personal site (literally) is not exactly anything major. Where is fact finding news services that can coroborate the story? Would make since that there are plenty of French, German, and Russian papers that would love to authenticate this. Alas, it's not being done.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  17. Apr 15, 2004 #16

    I see no one wants to concern themselves with the fact that there is nothing but open speculation about what may be in some boxes.
  18. Apr 15, 2004 #17


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    Science Advisor

    It is a perfectly valid supposition that any existing Iranian newspaper is an organ for the promotion of the policies of the hard-line antireformist movement in Iran. Simply google <Iranian newspaper closed > and you will see that any paper not conforming to reformist agenda is closed.

    No aspect of the story is falsifiable. No fact can be independently checked. I could just as easily print my own paper, "The Njorl Times" and write, "Unnamed sources confirm WMD in Iraq all along" and Phat could reference it.

    The story is not logical. The alleged conspiracy is ridiculous. While it is entirely believable that the US could attempt to plant evidence, they would certainly not involve so many different entities. One independent contractor which was a CIA front would fly a cargo plane to Iraq. The cargo plane would have a loaded truck inside of it. That truck would drive into the desert. No more than a dozen people, all Americans or CIA "resources" with security clearances, would be involved. The conspiraccy presented by "The Tehran Times" is laughable. It is a cartoon.

  19. Apr 15, 2004 #18
    Only the stupidity of the people I see.

    Ah, the always popular "You're anti-American!" Prove it, or stop saying it.

    Does the Tehran Times being state run make it wrong? Is CNN absolutely independent of state policy? Actually, I think you'll find that the Tehran Times is as influenced by commercial factors as any news agency in Australia or the USA.

    I think you'll find that I posted the link to Mehr News.

    You asked which other news sites were carrying the story. I provided links to several. Why are you still whinging?

    Phatmonky, you've been caught lying and making whopping great errors all over the place, which I have outlined. I've shown people precisely how you have mislead and lied, by well-known mechanisms of discussion which honest, intelligent people avoid. If you don't want me to show everyone how pathetic and basically wrong your posts are, then stop doing it.

    You asked for sites carrying the story. I showed some. Job done. Now stop whinging.

    As I said earlier, you would ignore the seven news sources and simply claim they are all "unworthy" or such. Bravo. Congratulations for being so predictable. So, why do you consider every news service referenced by other people to be unworthy? Simply because it disagrees with you?

    You're obviously unaware of this, so it's time for a little more education. All the news services buy stories and pictures and such off each other, and off independent reporters. CNN does it. Al Jazeera does it. ABC does it. BBC does it. Every time you look at a news article on CNN (that wonderfully independent news source), and it has Associated Press, or Reuters, or such at the bottom, that means they are reposting a story they got from somewhere else.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2017
  20. Apr 15, 2004 #19
    Well, atleast I'm not the only one :smile:
  21. Apr 15, 2004 #20
    This is where some familiarity with history is useful. It's already been done. The CIA did it for the start of the USA-Vietnam war, planting a barge-load of weapons on a river, then "finding " it later.

    Given that they have done it, how can you possibly say it's illogical or unlikely?

    In short, your appeal to ridicule (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html) does nothing for you. Try again.
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