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Working Out and Supplements

  1. Apr 17, 2005 #1

    JasonRox

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    I am working out at the moment, and I use to work out quite heavily and benched press well over my weight.

    At the moment, I can still bench press well over my weight. I weigh in at 153lbs and I can bench 180lbs as my max. This is not as high as it used to be, where I weighed in at 157lbs and benched press about 225lbs.

    I have experienced Creatine before, and yes it does work. If you would like to talk about Creatine, then go ahead. If you go on about how Creatine is a steroid or that it shrinks certain things, I'll be happy to ignore it.

    I am more interested in knowing about Glutamine and it's effects. I know this is a protein, but what about if you take more than the average consumption. What gains are there? Yes, there are gains, so don't tell there isn't any. Sure there are risks, but gains do come with it.

    If you would like to mention any other supplements, besides steroids or similiar products, I'd like to hear about it even though I doubt I would use it.

    Thanks.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 17, 2005 #2
    Creatine is a steroid and it shrinks certain things.
     
  4. Apr 17, 2005 #3

    JasonRox

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    Yeah, your girlfriend told me about it. I heard that's why she dumped you. Unfortunately, your girlfriend is ass ugly so she crawled back for the very little that she can get.
     
  5. Apr 18, 2005 #4
    Anti-senescence and creatine supplementation

    Then life extensionists might not be using it. Yet...
    groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.life-extension/search?group=sci.life-extension&q=creatine

    ...returns 132 hits. Wiki says:

    --
    Creatine [...] is a naturally occurring amino acid that helps to supply energy to muscle cells.
    --

    The Life Extension Foundation (LEF) says:

    --
    What is creatine? In a nutshell, creatine helps the body generate energy. Adenosine triphosphate (ATP), formed in the mitochondria, is often referred to as the body’s “universal energy molecule.” When ATP loses a high-energy phosphate molecule to become adenosine diphosphate (ADP), it must be converted back to ATP before it can be used again to produce energy. Creatine, stored in the body as creatine phosphate, can donate a phosphate group to ADP, thus recharging it to energy-producing ATP.
    --
     
  6. Apr 18, 2005 #5
    Glutamine supplementation for muscle building

    You might want to check pubmed.
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed&term=glutamine+body+composition

    Based on what I have read there, I think glutamine might not do anything for muscle mass. I have been using it on and off for years to help control my blood sugar and to help me think more clearly. Sci.life-extension would be a good place to discuss it:
    http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.life-extension

    Whey protein already contains a lot of glutamine, so if you want to save some money, just up your whey intake and buy your whey in bulk. You can buy unflavored whey in large sacks (30lb., 50lb.) on the internet for about $3/pound. Just add your own stevia, etc., for flavor and you're set.
     
  7. Apr 18, 2005 #6
    Where is Danger? Cause smurf just got flamed!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
     
  8. Apr 18, 2005 #7

    JasonRox

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    Yeah, it makes sense to control blood sugar. I heard that it helps with the sugar craving too.

    And, yes you are right, Whey Protein already contains alot of Glutamine. I was just wondering because I was told that the majority of your muscles need Glutamine the most. Therefore, taking more should be more beneficial. Another scoop of Whey can be, but then you are wasting everything else in it.

    Glutamine does taste pretty awful, so I don't know if I can stick it out.

    Note: It's probably the worst tasting thing on this planet.
     
  9. Apr 25, 2005 #8

    Astronuc

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    Jason,

    Here's a quick ref on glutamine - http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,10030,00.html

    I just resumed a more serious weight training program, and I am currently researching protein powders. A friend recommended Myoplex, which does contain glutamine, but it is balanced with other amino acids. One also needs to check ingredients if one has food allergies.

    EAS - Myoplex Deluxe or Original Powders.
    http://www.eas.com/products/index.asp

    Nutrition Articles at EAS - http://www.eas.com/nutrition/articles.asp?cmsId=527

    Bodybuilding.com - http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/eas/myoplex.html

    Description: Myoplex Deluxe 36pk by EAS - http://www.advantagesupplements.com/easmyde36nfo.html

    As for creatine - a good source of information (I never used it - see below)

    http://www.mdausa.org/research/creatine.html

    http://www.mdausa.org/news/010201creatineupdate.html

    http://www.althealth.co.uk/services/info/sport/creatine1.php

    ===================

    Here is a good discussion of "weight training", as opposed to body-building.

    http://exercise.about.com/cs/exerciseworkouts/a/weight101.htm

    ===================

    I did weight training, in addition to working heavy labor (iron work) in my early 20s. At my peak, I benchpressed 275-300 lbs (125-136 kgs), and did military press of 240 lbs (110 kgs), both with bar in front of chest and behind head during resting. However, my muscles were not bulky - my weight was only 175-180 lbs (79-82 kgs) - and I could touch my finger and hands to the shoulders (same side and across). Here it is important to stretch.

    Also, I ran long distance (at least 3 miles (5 km) each day - four or five days a week), rode a bicycle, and stretched all muscle groups. I occasionally played soccer.

    As for supplements, I used a protein power supplement (can't remember which) that had a balance of amino acids. I made a milk shake - milk, vanilla or chocolate ice cream, baby formula (e.g. Similac), and protein powder. I never used creatine, and I certainly did not take steroids.


    Baby Formula - Similac Advance, Similac 2 Advance, Similac Isomil - read ingredients.


    If at all possible, swimming is a great low impact exercise for the arms, chest, legs and abdomen. In addition, the arms get full range of motion with crawl and backstroke.

    ====================

    Also, take care of your joints, especially hip, knee and shoulder. As one gets older, injury or damage to these joints can be problematic. Once you get much beyond 40 yrs of age, healing takes much longer.

    There are some who recommend "glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate" for joints. I still have to research these.
     
  10. Apr 25, 2005 #9

    Chronos

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    Muscle up? Shouldn't you be in a chat room flexing?
     
  11. Apr 25, 2005 #10

    Moonbear

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    I haven't read the above links yet, but if you're interested in body building, it would seem to me you'd want a balance of amino acids, since muscle is built up from proteins composed of all the amino acids. A few of them are considered "essential" amino acids, which are those that your body is unable to build itself, so are required in our diet. I'd have to refresh my memory if glutamine is one of those. I don't know if there's any advantage to using individual amino acids as supplements rather than obtaining them from dietary sources of complete proteins. As with anything that is healthy in moderate amounts, just be careful about possible harmful effects at high doses (I don't know if any exist, but for almost everything, too much can be harmful).

    One quick reference I found (I don't have access to the full article, so can only share the abstract):
    Oh, and no, creatine is not a steroid.
     
  12. Apr 25, 2005 #11

    JasonRox

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    Astronuc that is great help.

    Yeah, me and my brother remain lightweights. I'm pretty happy with my brothers accomplishment of doing 3 reps of 205lbs, while weighing in at 143lbs.

    I should look more into it, but apparently Glutamine plays a large role in building the muscle mass. So, in this case it might be suitable for taking extra Glutamine because you're body is demanding it. A balanced source is great, but maybe not for targeting muscle growth. That's what I'm looking at.

    I'm just about to start my Strength Training (Powerlifting) tomorrow. I was doing a warm up/beginner schedule for the past month, so it's a good time to start. Creatine starts next week, and I hope to keep things all good. Thursday is now my official eat almost anything day, except for fast food of course. :)

    Every week I'll try and improve my diet, which is really good as it is, but can better.

    I just need a spotter... who KNOWS how to spot. :)

    Thanks alot for everything. I'll keep you updated on before and afters throughout my month of Creatine.
     
  13. Apr 25, 2005 #12

    Astronuc

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    I'd shy away from "body building", and focus on "weight training" or "strength training" - there's a big difference.

    If one is using creatine, then I would recommend consultation with a doctor, and probably a "sports" doctor who is familiar with the use of supplements.

    While not a steroid (it is a protein), use of creatine or any supplement in excess must be processed by the body, which stresses organs like the kidneys and possibly the liver.

    See also - http://www.absolute-creatine.com/

    Seems OK.

    Based on potential effects in the brain, heart and testes, please be careful. Also, stay well hydrated.

    Like I said, I never used creatine and I was able to build considerable strength without bulk.

    Also, have you found any instructions or recommendations on optimal time of taking creatine or other supplements? Basically this means that the substances are available when actually needed, otherwise the excess is simply excreted.
     
  14. Apr 25, 2005 #13

    JasonRox

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    Yes, the optimal time is 1 hour, on empty stomach, before a workout. During off days, you can take it whenever.

    Now it makes sense to take it shortly before a workout. Believe or not, you can tell Creatine is working. It's not a matter of it being subtle because you can tell. Also, you do Creatine in cycles and not just take it all the time, like I said May is Creatine month. After that, I'll be off for like another month... and I'm not quite sure if I will do another cycle. Also, no kidney or liver damage was found yet for the use of Creatine. They have looked into users who have been on Creatine from 8 months to 4 years... where I don't even plan on doing Creatine that long. The funny part is... I remember that website. I'm going to check it to see if it even changed at all in the past 3 years.

    I'm also aware of staying hydrated. I drink plenty of water (I piss clear :) ), and I don't intend to lose weight or maintain weight during the cycle. It is best to let your body just gain weight on Creatine.

    I don't know where this website got how Creatine pulls water into the muscles because I never noticed a size difference... at all. I'm pretty positive that water only plays a role in converting ADP into ATP.

    Also, the recommended amount is 5 grams, but I had the intentions to take 4 grams, for sure during off days.
     
  15. Apr 25, 2005 #14

    JasonRox

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    Here is a good website to check:

    http://www.betterbodz.com/library/creatine.html

    Now, I'm remembering more. I never really did the whole take "more" Creatine at the beginning when I was working out 3 years ago. It's amazing how much you can forget. I give this a try for the first week, but I'm only going to do 7-8 grams, which is half of what they are asking for. Two does would make, 3-4 grams.

    So... it's going to work for exactly what I want it to.

    I guess water is involved. My measurements throughout the month should recognize this change. It'd be interesting to see how much growth there would be. I'd say no more than 1/10th of an inch in the arms.

    I'll be reading some more.

    Thanks again. :biggrin:
     
  16. Apr 25, 2005 #15

    JasonRox

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    On Glutamine...

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/glutamine2.htm

    Just what I knew and thought. It is the main amino acid or protein of the body.

    Interesting.

    I was aware of this, but didn't take it too seriously. This is why it is good with Creatine. You are breaking down muscle tissue because you are lifting more weight, but with the help of Glutamine you prevent this.

    I was also pretty aware of this. I remember reading that doctors recommended/required HIV positive patients to take Glutamine.

    I was thinking of just increasing my Glutamine intake by 2-3 grams twice a day. I guess to stick with my plans I will take 2 grams before, 2 grams after, and 2 grams before bed. I may move up to 3 grams after the 1st week.

    Another website...

    http://www.nutriline.org/glutamine.htm

    Taking it would help your body keep up with demand.

    Hmm... I guess 2-3 grams twice a day, remains my best and safest option.

    For those interested in working out, this should be a thread to keep an eye on.

    I may even take the time to post my routine, or put it on Excel or something. Taking notice that my goal is Powerlifting. I plan on doing Endurance/Strength Training near the end of summer.
     
  17. Apr 25, 2005 #16

    Moonbear

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    Jason, from what I came across on cursory searches, the danger with creatine is in overdosing. It can strain the kidneys, and there have been a few cases where deaths have been directly related to improper use of creatine. I will second Astronuc's advice to consult a physician if you're going to use supplements (actually, you should anyway if you're going to be doing a lot of heavy lifting; make sure you aren't injuring yourself or putting your cardiovascular health in danger, or that there's some previously undiagnosed condition you have that might put you at higher risk for problems). They can help monitor you for signs of any liver or kidney damage so you'll know to stop before it becomes dangerous. While it sounds like amino acid supplements can generally be used safely, being monitored by a physician will ensure you're not that statistic of one in whatever number who has a problem.

    It's not clear from what you've quoted already that creatine is really doing anything for strength, just "puffing up" your muscle cells to make them look bigger; so it would be good for body builders that want to look bulky, but may not be helpful in powerlifting where strength is the key.

    Most of the studies I came across on the use of glutamine weren't in healthy adults, but in preventing muscle loss in the elderly or bedridden people, or those who had other metabolic disorders. So, while it seems to be helpful to those who are ill and in danger of losing muscle, there seems to be far fewer published studies on whether it really benefits a healthy adult.
     
  18. Apr 25, 2005 #17

    JasonRox

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    I am aware that will not help at all. The access to more ATP will help. Just about everyone I know who used Creatine properly and train seriously (not a social gym user) noticed that if they used to do...

    6 reps of 180lbs

    On Creatine you would probably squeeze in extra reps...

    8-9 reps of 180lbs

    This allows you to increase weight... to let's say 185lbs so you can do 6 reps again. This means more muscle breakdown is induced... more muscle breakdown = more muscle recovery = getting stronger. Glutamine prevents muscle breakdown, which means it can be considered a compliment to Creatine.

    For seeing a Physician thing, well I probably should, but believe it or not I got a Cardiovascular check in November/December. They did that whole machine reading on it, checked blood pressure and heartbeat. Everything turned out fine. I had a pain located near my heart, which turned out to be soreness because I was lifting a really heavy school bag around school on one shoulder all day. It was good news to here everything is great.

    So I know my heart is in good shape. My liver or kidney... I have no idea. I have to assume not being a big drinker (nor a regular drinker) or heavy fast food eater, that everything is good.

    Note: I'm 21 years old.

    Yes, overdosing is bad, which is why I decided to stay below recommended use. Something I did before as well and benefits came around as well. I heard about death related things with Creatine, but if I remember correctly... they are largely caused by people trying to lose weight while on Creatine. That is in itself the worst combination imaginable. It may also happen to those who think they will get bigger on Creatine without working out, which means that NO Creatine is being used... therefore the kidney and liver must absorb all of it. Also, a bad combination. Not alot of water is another bad combination.

    I'll think about the whole Physician thing. Something I wouldn't have considered before unless something didn't seem right.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2005
  19. Apr 26, 2005 #18

    JasonRox

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    Those who plan on working out or have questions or what not, a good website to check out is:

    forum.bodybuilding.com

    Same format as PF. :)
     
  20. Apr 27, 2005 #19
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2005
  21. Apr 28, 2005 #20

    Astronuc

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    This might be useful for general nutrition, physical activity or exercise and injury.

    FamilyDoctor.org

    On Family Doctor

    Healthy Living

    Nutrition and Exercise

    Physical Activity
    The Basics
    Sports Safety
    Injuries and Illnesses

    ========================

    In addition to staying hydrated, watch the sodium/potassium balance, so sports drinks like Gatorade are useful rather than just water.

    ========================

    Watch the joints, particular shoulder and knees. These will take the great stresses during certain lifts. The elbow joint and hip joint, usually take less stress, but nevertheless, be careful.
     
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