Would you please tell me if UFO is for real?

  • Thread starter Sadmemo
  • Start date
32
0
Would you please tell me if UFO is for real? ?
Thank you
 
Last edited:

JamesU

Gold Member
732
3
what?!?!?!
 
32
0
UFo, I mean if it is real thing to believe in ?
 
60
0
I haven't seen any photos or video that would convince me of their existence and as for the people who claim to have been abducted by UFOs, I think we have all seen an interview or two of them so I'll leave it at that.
But anything is possible. The chance of there being intelligent life outside of our solar system, IMHO is very likely.
Personally, I would believe in the existence of UFOs before I believe in the existence of God.
 

Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,093
174
Sadmemo said:
UFo, I mean if it is real thing to believe in ?
I think what you mean to ask if any UFOs are ET technology. I can say that after trying to figure this out for a very long time, I don't know what to think. It is extremely difficult to ignore some of the evidence and witnesses, but nothing that I've seen settles the debate. So I suggest that you keep an open mind, consider the evidence for what it is, and believe nothing.
 

James R

Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
600
15
There is obviously no really convincing evidence that we are being visited by extraterrestrials, since if there was it would be general knowledge.

Believers in alien spacecraft visiting Earth generally present as evidence fuzzy photos or films, anecdotal stories, and other dubious physical "evidence" which could have other explanations. There is nothing convincing.

If ET ever does visit Earth, I think its existence will be very obvious to all. If YOU were an extraterrestrial, what would you do? Kidnap somebody few people will believe, or land your spaceship on the White House lawn?
 

Ivan Seeking

Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
7,093
174
I disagree. First of all, believers don't present evidence; alleged witnesses do. Also, many people do consider an ET presence to be common knowledge. Next, there are plenty of clear photos and videos but no way to prove that they weren't hoaxed. Additionally, some of the evidence is quite compelling. Finally, we can't assume that ET would act and think as we do. So extrapolating what makes sense to us as something logical for an ET has no basis.

One more thought: Our imaginations lead to ideas like Star Trek's Prime Directive. So maybe ET does act like we would.
 
454
7
I almost saw a UFO in Mexico. :smile:
 
480
0
James R said:
There is obviously no really convincing evidence that we are being visited by extraterrestrials, since if there was it would be general knowledge.

Believers in alien spacecraft visiting Earth generally present as evidence fuzzy photos or films, anecdotal stories, and other dubious physical "evidence" which could have other explanations. There is nothing convincing.

If ET ever does visit Earth, I think its existence will be very obvious to all. If YOU were an extraterrestrial, what would you do? Kidnap somebody few people will believe, or land your spaceship on the White House lawn?
Humans would kidnap some people and be undetected at first to assess the situation. Or they wouldn't even kidnap anyone, they would just observe for a while. It all depends on what our intentions would be. What would be the purpose in us making ourselves known right away? We wouldn't want to bring panic to their world would we?
 
856
2
I once read this story which compared humans relating to aliens with gorilla's relating to humans:

In this situation, the answer to the usual remark, “If there are advanced extraterrestrials around, why don’t they contact us openly and officially and teach us their science and technology” seems obvious. Would any country on this planet send an official delegation to the mountain gorilla territory to introduce themselves “openly and officially” to the gorilla authorities? Would they shake hands, make agreements and exchange signatures with the dominant males? About teaching us their science and technology, who would volunteer to teach physics, mathematics and engineering to a bunch of gorillas? In addition, one has to take into account the limits of the brain capabilities, independently of the culture of education. For example, let us ask ourselves how many bananas would be necessary for the most intelligent gorillas to understand the equations of electromagnetism (even if they watch TV or listen to the radio).
http://www.unknowncountry.com/mindframe/opinion/?id=96
 

russ_watters

Mentor
18,979
5,136
PIT2 said:
I once read this story which compared humans relating to aliens with gorilla's relating to humans:
I don't buy the analogy. It has yet to be shown that gorillas are capable of understanding such concepts. Evidence seems to suggest that their maximum intellectual development is somewhere around the same as six-year-old human. Humans, at the very least, would be able to hold a conversation with an alien species (assuming they can get a translator).

I happened to watch a Star Trek episode last night about the trekkies using "duck blinds" to observe alien races. In the end, the duck blind failed and the bronze-age aliens saw the advanced humans. After a brief period where they thought the Enterprise crew were gods, they were able to be convinced that they were not. Why? Because a bronze-age people, while less educated, have about the same level of intelligence.

So I also have a hard time accepting that we'd be no more interesting than gorillas to aliens. Perhaps there would be a "Prime Directive" standing in the way of contact, but if that's the case and there are aliens crashing saucers at Roswell, they're doing a fairly crappy job of following it.
 

russ_watters

Mentor
18,979
5,136
Ivan Seeking said:
Also, many people do consider an ET presence to be common knowledge.
Few beyond the most mentally ill crackpots believe that, Ivan - that's The Disclosure Project you're talking about. Believe what you want about those alleged 300 witnesses, but Greer himself (Hoagland too) is certifiable. Those "UFOologists" who you cited in our last big discussion on the subject, who have at least a little scientific credibility would never consider it "common knowledge".

And I think you know that - that's why you can't study "Alien Visitor Relations" in college. For the mainstream, the belief that we are already being visited by aliens is simply a cultural phenomena.
Next, there are plenty of clear photos and videos but no way to prove that they weren't hoaxed.
Well, I'd tend to disagree with that. Some of the supposedly more compelling don't show objects, but lights. Remember the promising Mexican UFOs flying in formation (the oil rigs) from last year? Its very rare that there is a clear photo/video of an object and virtually never that there is a clear backdrop for scale/distance, etc. (since they are, after all, mostly in the sky). My biggest beef has never been with hoaxes (I have little doubt about the sincerity of most people who submit photos/videos), its about overzealous interpretation of blurry photos and no-depth-perception light patterns.

And for aliens on the ground - for all the people who think they are already in conctact with us, I've never once seen a photo or video of an alien that wasn't conclusively proven to be a hoax - and even then, they are extremely rare.
 
Last edited:

russ_watters

Mentor
18,979
5,136
Sadmemo said:
Would you please tell me if UFO is for real? ?
Thank you
By definition, a UFO is a real observation of an unidentified phenomena. So yes, they are real. But be careful: people often equate UFOs and flying saucers. They are not the same thing. UFOs are certainly real, but few credible scientists consider alien spacecraft to be visiting us.
 

Pengwuino

Gold Member
4,854
14
I dont buy it :D

If they are capable of coming to earth so many times... then coming down and 'abducting' people so many times... why havent they touched down in a somewhat major city yet. I dont think there shy or anything... and im not sure they are attempting to learn about our world using backwoodsmen as their source...

I saw an alien once though :D

Turned out to be a blimp... but i saw an alien i swear!
 
856
2
russ_watters said:
Humans, at the very least, would be able to hold a conversation with an alien species (assuming they can get a translator).
Is that so?
Or is it merely that we cannot imagine that they are too weird for us to understand and therefore think we will be able to converse with them?

From what many 'alien abductees' claim they experienced, they dont even know whether the 'aliens' exist in physical reality or in some other dimension/whatever(or in their own minds!).

Communication in those experiences is mostly absent and if it does occur its one way telepathy or some other thing too weird to understand.

Take these experiences for example:
• Sporadic, often very specialized memory impairment.
• Spontaneous episodes of invisibility.
• Passing through physical obstacles that the experiencer is on a collision course with.
• Spontaneous episodes of dissociation producing a gap in consciousness; a unique sense of non-existence that feels like you have slipped into some other plane of reality for a time. This should be differentiated from functioning on 'automatic pilot.'
• Simultaneous awareness of events or objects in multiple planes of reality; a variation on the dissociation (above) in which consciousness remains functional in several dimensions simultaneously.
• Free-fall for a long distance with no injuries. For example, falling from a cliff or an airplane and being drawn gently toward the Earth as though encapsulated in a reduced gravitational field.
• Encountering two dimensional objects which behave like three dimensional objects.
• Full, unobstructed view of a luminous, glowing sphere that should be partially hidden by trees or shrubs. However, the trees or shrubs seem not to exist between the object and the viewer.
• Materialization and dematerialization of objects in the environment.
• Feeling an emotional, spiritual, or psychological 'alien state' either telepathically, empathetically, or remembered on your own.
• Rearrangement of objects in the environment to effect a sudden, miraculous rescue of a person.
• Frequent occurrence of striking synchronicities.
• Consciously remembering UFO related material by reliving the incident through any of the senses or abstract conceptualization, as though it were happening at the moment.

http://www.alienjigsaw.com/Part_III/MaryKerfoot3.html [Broken]
However, there are also some who claim to talk with aliens constantly and understand them well.

They may well be so far ahead of us that our communication is to them like gorilla communication is to us.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

matthyaouw

Gold Member
1,137
4
Pengwuino said:
If they are capable of coming to earth so many times... then coming down and 'abducting' people so many times... why havent they touched down in a somewhat major city yet. I dont think there shy or anything... and im not sure they are attempting to learn about our world using backwoodsmen as their source...
It would be a fairly big risk to take don't you think? We are well capable of defending ourselves, and they may know that (I've heard 'reports' of planes persuing UFOs). Landing amongst a few thousand or million confused, potentially hostile creatures wouldn't be the wisest idea in my oppinon. Also, who says that any 'visitors' we have are interested in our culture and people? We have no idea what could motivate an alien race to explore, so it would be foolish to say that they would want to make official contact.

(Note- I'm speaking purely hypothetically here. I'm open minded about such things, but in no way convinced that we are visited by ETs)
 

Pengwuino

Gold Member
4,854
14
matthyaouw said:
It would be a fairly big risk to take don't you think? We are well capable of defending ourselves, and they may know that (I've heard 'reports' of planes persuing UFOs). Landing amongst a few thousand or million confused, potentially hostile creatures wouldn't be the wisest idea in my oppinon. Also, who says that any 'visitors' we have are interested in our culture and people? We have no idea what could motivate an alien race to explore, so it would be foolish to say that they would want to make official contact.
What i dont get is how one can think that we somehow pose a threat to them. If we are basing our argument off of these videos nad pictures we see... they obviously have technology we cant even dream of right now so what threat can we really pose? Some accounts say they have lasers... some say they are invisible to radar... some say they can be invisible whenever they choose... i would take the jump into thinking that they would have figured a way to shoot down a missile or airplane if they needed to.

And i would think they are interested in us seeing as how, supposedly, they have visited us a large # of times. But then again maybe we're like antarctica to them. We love to visit antarctica... but have no real plans to start constructive the next new york down there or anything of that magnitute.. so maybe they just like visiting us for the sake of visiting (not that people who go to antarctica do it just for sight seeing).
 
856
2
Perhaps they arent interested in politics, but prefer direct communication with the person they are interested in. Why would they physically travel to a point in space, then use soundwaves (supposing they have mouths)to create words that can be interpreted in infinite different ways?

Wouldnt instant telepathy (or OBE travel) from 10 billion lightyears away be more efficient?
 

russ_watters

Mentor
18,979
5,136
PIT2 said:
They may well be so far ahead of us that our communication is to them like gorilla communication is to us.
But that's just it - gorillas don't communicate in an intelligent way - they don't have the intelligence to think about anything beyond their own immediate existence. For example, a gorilla is not capable of understanding the concept of light, much less understanding that an alien came from a planet 300 light years away. It is a much, much greater leap to go from gorilla to man than from man to space-faring alien.

I know I get heat for making assumptions about the level of intelligence or even the form that aliens would be in, but they aren't assumptions: they are logical conclusions based on the known rules of science. Speculation on exotic life forms unlike anything we can conceive is not only useless(if we can't conceive it, how can we speculate about it?) , but moot: for the purpose of this thread, we can only go on what we have observed.
 
Last edited:
856
2
russ_watters said:
But that's just it - gorillas don't communicate in an intelligent way - they don't have the intelligence to think about anything beyond their own immediate existence. For example, a gorilla is not capable of understanding the concept of light, much less understanding that an alien came from a planet 300 light years away.
Perhaps aliens think the same about us?

It is a much, much greater leap to go from gorilla to man than from man to space-faring alien.
I disagree.
If evolution can make such a difference between species on the same planet, just imagine what difference it can make between species on different planets (with perhaps a billion years more of evolution).

But maybe im just thinking of an extreme-case scenario here.

If alien encounter tales are any indication of what to expect, then so far it has remained mindboglingly bizarre.

Heres the paper on the gorilla theory:
http://xxx.arxiv.cornell.edu/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0308/0308078.pdf [Broken]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
856
2
Heres a bit from the paper:

Besides, Olum’s arguments implying that inflation must necessarily aggravate the (very serious) ‘missing-alien’ problem do not seem very convincing and it is some brane world scenarios [2], in our opinion, what could in fact aggravate dramatically this problem. The reason is the following. If there exist thousands, or millions, of parallel universes separated from ours through extra-dimensions, it would be natural then to expect that some proportion of these universes would have the same laws of physics as ours (presumably half of these would be of matter and the other half of anti-matter), and many of the corresponding advanced civilizations would master the techniques to travel or ‘jump’ through (at least some of) the extra dimensions. This opens up enormous possibilities regarding the expansion of advanced civilizations simultaneously through several parallel universes with the same laws of physics, resulting in multidimensional empires. It could even happen that the expansion to other parallel galaxies through extra dimensions could be easier, with lower cost, than the expansion inside one’s own galaxy3.

In many other universes, however, the laws of physics would be different, corresponding perhaps to different vacua of the ‘would be’ ultimate Theory of Everything, resulting probably in ‘shadow matter’ universes with respect to ours. This means that shadow matter would only interact with our matter gravitationally, in the case it would be brought to our Universe using appropiate technology. This does not mean, however, that the shadow universes would be necessarily empty of intelligent beings. If some of them had advanced civilizations, some of their individuals could even ‘jump’ to our Universe, but not for colonization purposes since they would not even see our planets and stars, which they would pass through almost unaware (they would only notice the gravitational pull towards their centers). And the other way around, we could neither see, nor talk to, the shadow visitors, although they could perhaps try to communicate with the ‘would be’ intelligent beings of our Universe, through gravitational waves for example. Regarding anti-matter universes, the intelligent anti-observers would not send colonizers either4.

http://xxx.arxiv.cornell.edu/abs/physics/0308078 [Broken]
This is of course all speculation...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

matthyaouw

Gold Member
1,137
4
Pengwuino said:
What i dont get is how one can think that we somehow pose a threat to them. If we are basing our argument off of these videos nad pictures we see... they obviously have technology we cant even dream of right now so what threat can we really pose? Some accounts say they have lasers... some say they are invisible to radar... some say they can be invisible whenever they choose... i would take the jump into thinking that they would have figured a way to shoot down a missile or airplane if they needed to.
You can't comment on their ability to defend themselves or the threat that they pose, as no ship has ever been proven to exist, never mind recovered (to our knowledge). They could be hard as nails, or a single bullet could do sufficient damage to make a ship un-space-worthy. We simply have no way of knowing.

And i would think they are interested in us seeing as how, supposedly, they have visited us a large # of times.
Who is to say it is us? It may be any aspect of our planet that they are interested in studying.
 

Pengwuino

Gold Member
4,854
14
matthyaouw said:
You can't comment on their ability to defend themselves or the threat that they pose, as no ship has ever been proven to exist, never mind recovered (to our knowledge). They could be hard as nails, or a single bullet could do sufficient damage to make a ship un-space-worthy. We simply have no way of knowing.
Well like i said, my whole argument is based on the hypothetical idea that those space ships are indeed real and aliens do indeed exist and can do these things we cant even imagine.

matthyaouw said:
Who is to say it is us? It may be any aspect of our planet that they are interested in studying.
Well again, like i siad... why are they hypothetically "abducting" people who dont know their ass from a hole in the ground lol.
 

James R

Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Gold Member
600
15
Ivan:

Next, there are plenty of clear photos and videos but no way to prove that they weren't hoaxed. Additionally, some of the evidence is quite compelling.
There have been many cases exposed as hoaxes. Which is more likely, do you think: that all cases are hoaxes (or mistakes), or that ET really is visiting Earth?

Finally, we can't assume that ET would act and think as we do.
I have trouble buying that one. I can't see why an interstellar travelling ET would have motivations fundamentally different to ours.


moose:

Humans would kidnap some people and be undetected at first to assess the situation.
Why? We have to assume that any intelligence which can cross interstellar space is far ahead of us technologically. We'd pose no threat.

What would be the purpose in us making ourselves known right away?
Why come here at all, if not to make their presence known to us? There are plenty of other planets, most probably uninhabited. Why pick Earth, if not to communicate with Earth people?

We wouldn't want to bring panic to their world would we?
Would you really panic if a flying saucer landed on the White House lawn? I don't think I would.
 
436
1
Ivan Seeking said:
I disagree. First of all, believers don't present evidence; alleged witnesses do.
Witnesses are not enough to prove ET existence. There are plenty of witnesses about seeng ghosts as well. Besides what do you think about the fact that the majority of these witnesses, often sounding credible, were proven to be false? For example, in a serious witness, someone was claiming to have regular remote contacts with civilizations from many galaxies. Since information cannot travel faster than the speed of light, it would take thousands of years to arrive to Earth! I think it is far more probable that all of the witnesses are lies/mistakes/hallucinations than that extraterrestials really visited us.


Ivan Seeking said:
Also, many people do consider an ET presence to be common knowledge.
Not many acknowledged scientists, right? After such an abudance of stories and news about ET it is not a surprise that a good portion of common people would believe on them. Why isn't there a single official evidence about a visit from aliens, or an official meeting between aliens and the Earth representatives???
 

Related Threads for: Would you please tell me if UFO is for real?

  • Poll
  • Last Post
2
Replies
25
Views
4K
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • Last Post
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • Last Post
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • Poll
  • Last Post
2
Replies
27
Views
3K
Replies
20
Views
7K
  • Last Post
Replies
16
Views
2K
Replies
27
Views
3K

Hot Threads

Top