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Would you please tell me if UFO is for real?

  1. May 31, 2005 #1
    Would you please tell me if UFO is for real? ?
    Thank you
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2005
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  3. May 31, 2005 #2

    JamesU

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    what?!?!?!
     
  4. May 31, 2005 #3
    UFo, I mean if it is real thing to believe in ?
     
  5. Jun 1, 2005 #4
    I haven't seen any photos or video that would convince me of their existence and as for the people who claim to have been abducted by UFOs, I think we have all seen an interview or two of them so I'll leave it at that.
    But anything is possible. The chance of there being intelligent life outside of our solar system, IMHO is very likely.
    Personally, I would believe in the existence of UFOs before I believe in the existence of God.
     
  6. Jun 1, 2005 #5

    Ivan Seeking

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    I think what you mean to ask if any UFOs are ET technology. I can say that after trying to figure this out for a very long time, I don't know what to think. It is extremely difficult to ignore some of the evidence and witnesses, but nothing that I've seen settles the debate. So I suggest that you keep an open mind, consider the evidence for what it is, and believe nothing.
     
  7. Jun 1, 2005 #6

    James R

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    There is obviously no really convincing evidence that we are being visited by extraterrestrials, since if there was it would be general knowledge.

    Believers in alien spacecraft visiting Earth generally present as evidence fuzzy photos or films, anecdotal stories, and other dubious physical "evidence" which could have other explanations. There is nothing convincing.

    If ET ever does visit Earth, I think its existence will be very obvious to all. If YOU were an extraterrestrial, what would you do? Kidnap somebody few people will believe, or land your spaceship on the White House lawn?
     
  8. Jun 1, 2005 #7

    Ivan Seeking

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    I disagree. First of all, believers don't present evidence; alleged witnesses do. Also, many people do consider an ET presence to be common knowledge. Next, there are plenty of clear photos and videos but no way to prove that they weren't hoaxed. Additionally, some of the evidence is quite compelling. Finally, we can't assume that ET would act and think as we do. So extrapolating what makes sense to us as something logical for an ET has no basis.

    One more thought: Our imaginations lead to ideas like Star Trek's Prime Directive. So maybe ET does act like we would.
     
  9. Jun 1, 2005 #8
    I almost saw a UFO in Mexico. :smile:
     
  10. Jun 1, 2005 #9
    Humans would kidnap some people and be undetected at first to assess the situation. Or they wouldn't even kidnap anyone, they would just observe for a while. It all depends on what our intentions would be. What would be the purpose in us making ourselves known right away? We wouldn't want to bring panic to their world would we?
     
  11. Jun 1, 2005 #10
    I once read this story which compared humans relating to aliens with gorilla's relating to humans:

     
  12. Jun 1, 2005 #11

    russ_watters

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    I don't buy the analogy. It has yet to be shown that gorillas are capable of understanding such concepts. Evidence seems to suggest that their maximum intellectual development is somewhere around the same as six-year-old human. Humans, at the very least, would be able to hold a conversation with an alien species (assuming they can get a translator).

    I happened to watch a Star Trek episode last night about the trekkies using "duck blinds" to observe alien races. In the end, the duck blind failed and the bronze-age aliens saw the advanced humans. After a brief period where they thought the Enterprise crew were gods, they were able to be convinced that they were not. Why? Because a bronze-age people, while less educated, have about the same level of intelligence.

    So I also have a hard time accepting that we'd be no more interesting than gorillas to aliens. Perhaps there would be a "Prime Directive" standing in the way of contact, but if that's the case and there are aliens crashing saucers at Roswell, they're doing a fairly crappy job of following it.
     
  13. Jun 1, 2005 #12

    russ_watters

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    Few beyond the most mentally ill crackpots believe that, Ivan - that's The Disclosure Project you're talking about. Believe what you want about those alleged 300 witnesses, but Greer himself (Hoagland too) is certifiable. Those "UFOologists" who you cited in our last big discussion on the subject, who have at least a little scientific credibility would never consider it "common knowledge".

    And I think you know that - that's why you can't study "Alien Visitor Relations" in college. For the mainstream, the belief that we are already being visited by aliens is simply a cultural phenomena.
    Well, I'd tend to disagree with that. Some of the supposedly more compelling don't show objects, but lights. Remember the promising Mexican UFOs flying in formation (the oil rigs) from last year? Its very rare that there is a clear photo/video of an object and virtually never that there is a clear backdrop for scale/distance, etc. (since they are, after all, mostly in the sky). My biggest beef has never been with hoaxes (I have little doubt about the sincerity of most people who submit photos/videos), its about overzealous interpretation of blurry photos and no-depth-perception light patterns.

    And for aliens on the ground - for all the people who think they are already in conctact with us, I've never once seen a photo or video of an alien that wasn't conclusively proven to be a hoax - and even then, they are extremely rare.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2005
  14. Jun 1, 2005 #13

    russ_watters

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    By definition, a UFO is a real observation of an unidentified phenomena. So yes, they are real. But be careful: people often equate UFOs and flying saucers. They are not the same thing. UFOs are certainly real, but few credible scientists consider alien spacecraft to be visiting us.
     
  15. Jun 1, 2005 #14

    Pengwuino

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    I dont buy it :D

    If they are capable of coming to earth so many times... then coming down and 'abducting' people so many times... why havent they touched down in a somewhat major city yet. I dont think there shy or anything... and im not sure they are attempting to learn about our world using backwoodsmen as their source...

    I saw an alien once though :D

    Turned out to be a blimp... but i saw an alien i swear!
     
  16. Jun 1, 2005 #15
    Is that so?
    Or is it merely that we cannot imagine that they are too weird for us to understand and therefore think we will be able to converse with them?

    From what many 'alien abductees' claim they experienced, they dont even know whether the 'aliens' exist in physical reality or in some other dimension/whatever(or in their own minds!).

    Communication in those experiences is mostly absent and if it does occur its one way telepathy or some other thing too weird to understand.

    Take these experiences for example:
    However, there are also some who claim to talk with aliens constantly and understand them well.

    They may well be so far ahead of us that our communication is to them like gorilla communication is to us.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2005
  17. Jun 1, 2005 #16

    matthyaouw

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    It would be a fairly big risk to take don't you think? We are well capable of defending ourselves, and they may know that (I've heard 'reports' of planes persuing UFOs). Landing amongst a few thousand or million confused, potentially hostile creatures wouldn't be the wisest idea in my oppinon. Also, who says that any 'visitors' we have are interested in our culture and people? We have no idea what could motivate an alien race to explore, so it would be foolish to say that they would want to make official contact.

    (Note- I'm speaking purely hypothetically here. I'm open minded about such things, but in no way convinced that we are visited by ETs)
     
  18. Jun 1, 2005 #17

    Pengwuino

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    What i dont get is how one can think that we somehow pose a threat to them. If we are basing our argument off of these videos nad pictures we see... they obviously have technology we cant even dream of right now so what threat can we really pose? Some accounts say they have lasers... some say they are invisible to radar... some say they can be invisible whenever they choose... i would take the jump into thinking that they would have figured a way to shoot down a missile or airplane if they needed to.

    And i would think they are interested in us seeing as how, supposedly, they have visited us a large # of times. But then again maybe we're like antarctica to them. We love to visit antarctica... but have no real plans to start constructive the next new york down there or anything of that magnitute.. so maybe they just like visiting us for the sake of visiting (not that people who go to antarctica do it just for sight seeing).
     
  19. Jun 1, 2005 #18
    Perhaps they arent interested in politics, but prefer direct communication with the person they are interested in. Why would they physically travel to a point in space, then use soundwaves (supposing they have mouths)to create words that can be interpreted in infinite different ways?

    Wouldnt instant telepathy (or OBE travel) from 10 billion lightyears away be more efficient?
     
  20. Jun 1, 2005 #19

    russ_watters

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    But that's just it - gorillas don't communicate in an intelligent way - they don't have the intelligence to think about anything beyond their own immediate existence. For example, a gorilla is not capable of understanding the concept of light, much less understanding that an alien came from a planet 300 light years away. It is a much, much greater leap to go from gorilla to man than from man to space-faring alien.

    I know I get heat for making assumptions about the level of intelligence or even the form that aliens would be in, but they aren't assumptions: they are logical conclusions based on the known rules of science. Speculation on exotic life forms unlike anything we can conceive is not only useless(if we can't conceive it, how can we speculate about it?) , but moot: for the purpose of this thread, we can only go on what we have observed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2005
  21. Jun 1, 2005 #20
    Perhaps aliens think the same about us?

    I disagree.
    If evolution can make such a difference between species on the same planet, just imagine what difference it can make between species on different planets (with perhaps a billion years more of evolution).

    But maybe im just thinking of an extreme-case scenario here.

    If alien encounter tales are any indication of what to expect, then so far it has remained mindboglingly bizarre.

    Heres the paper on the gorilla theory:
    http://xxx.arxiv.cornell.edu/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0308/0308078.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2005
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