Your one talent

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honestrosewater said:
I could see a physical v. intellectual distinction, or maybe a creation v. performance distinction. What do you mean by recreational or pleasant talents? Recreational v. professional? Pleasant v. miserable?
Smurf said:
How are Piano and Writing more recreational and less professional than Logic-Math?
Recreational talents are valuable to others only for recreation; they don't accomplish any real results. You can't build a better engine by playing the piano.

But what I also meant was that piano and writing are done more often for recreation. It is pleasurable to play the piano or write. Sure, it can be pleasurable to do logic and math as well, but they are often more "active" and there is frequently the other interest of accomplishing some goal, making logic-math often not a purely recreational activity.
 
BicycleTree said:
Recreational talents are valuable to others only for recreation; they don't accomplish any real results. You can't build a better engine by playing the piano.

But what I also meant was that piano and writing are done more often for recreation. It is pleasurable to play the piano or write. Sure, it can be pleasurable to do logic and math as well, but they are often more "active" and there is frequently the other interest of accomplishing some goal, making logic-math often not a purely recreational activity.
The results of artistic persuits are definitely most often less tangible but that doesn't make them any less valuable, or the results less real.
And, actually, the most intense amounts of logic I use are generally for a recreational purpose. I play chess and go among other strategy games. I also like logic puzzles and cryptograms.
 
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Not to mention the intense difficulty of actually understanding Music Theory
 

brewnog

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BicycleTree said:
Recreational talents are valuable to others only for recreation; they don't accomplish any real results. You can't build a better engine by playing the piano.

But what I also meant was that piano and writing are done more often for recreation. It is pleasurable to play the piano or write. Sure, it can be pleasurable to do logic and math as well, but they are often more "active" and there is frequently the other interest of accomplishing some goal, making logic-math often not a purely recreational activity.

So, nothing of any real use can be accomplished by writing?

Normally, in these circumstances, I advise people to remove their head from, urm, the sand.
 

Evo

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I would like to be coordinated enough to play video games. :redface:

I'm trying to learn to play World of Warcraft with my oldest daughter (the spawn of Evo). We created my character last night (I'm a Tauren Druid :approve: ) and I went on my first quest. I had to get meat and feathers for my tribe. I left the hut and ran directly into a firepit. :frown:
 

brewnog

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Evo said:
I'm a Tauren Druid :approve: and I went on my first quest. I had to get meat and feathers for my tribe. I left the hut and ran directly into a firepit. :frown:
You ought to get onto our desert island!
 
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brewnog said:
So, nothing of any real use can be accomplished by writing?

Normally, in these circumstances, I advise people to remove their head from, urm, the sand.
Anyone who was actually paying attention and not merely trying to take pot-shots at me would remember that the writing in question here is novel-writing.
 

Evo

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brewnog said:
You ought to get onto our desert island!
I'd just sink the island. :frown:
 

brewnog

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BicycleTree said:
Anyone who was actually paying attention and not merely trying to take pot-shots at me would remember that the writing in question here is novel-writing.

Entertainment is a crucial part of human life, whether it be the reading of literature, listening to music, or viewing works of art.
 
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Obviously you were originally referring to politically influential writing, because only if you were talking about such truly important writing would you "advise people to remove their head from, urm, the sand."

I don't believe for a minute that you were actually talking about "entertainment [as] a crucial part of human life." But since I don't have any positively incriminating evidence, I must apologize for my hasty condemnation.
 
brewnog said:
Entertainment is a crucial part of human life, whether it be the reading of literature, listening to music, or viewing works of art.
Exactly. I myself have argued the importance of technology and logic with those that have said culture and art were more important to human civilization. I think they are both just as important.
 

honestrosewater

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BicycleTree said:
Recreational talents are valuable to others only for recreation; they don't accomplish any real results. You can't build a better engine by playing the piano.
So you are dismissing all arts and humanities as just fun and games.?
But what I also meant was that piano and writing are done more often for recreation. It is pleasurable to play the piano or write. Sure, it can be pleasurable to do logic and math as well, but they are often more "active" and there is frequently the other interest of accomplishing some goal, making logic-math often not a purely recreational activity.
But you've just said that the goal of some activities is recreation and pleasure. Any activity can have a goal. So what makes the goals of math and logic- and, presumably you would put science in this category as well- different from the goals of the arts and humanities? They can all be done because it's pleasurable to do them. They can all be done to gain and share knowledge; Do you find a certain kind of knowledge more worthwhile than others?
 
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All arts and humanities are mere recreation. I wouldn't call them "fun and games."

The goal of enjoyment is a different kind of goal from the goals you make when trying to figure something out. When you try to figure something out, you start with your goal and you compare the steps you take to that goal, and alter course appropriately. The goal of recreation has nothing like that seriousness and determination of purpose; to the extent it can be said to be followed, it is followed... well, recreationally.

Yes, I find logic-math knowledge to be more worthwhile than other kinds of knowledge. Logic-math is where you actually can accomplish lasting things. When you make new technology or new ways of coordinating and organizing things, logic-math is the way to do it.
 
BicycleTree said:
All arts and humanities are mere recreation. I wouldn't call them "fun and games."

The goal of enjoyment is a different kind of goal from the goals you make when trying to figure something out. When you try to figure something out, you start with your goal and you compare the steps you take to that goal, and alter course appropriately. The goal of recreation has nothing like that seriousness and determination of purpose; to the extent it can be said to be followed, it is followed... well, recreationally.

Yes, I find logic-math knowledge to be more worthwhile than other kinds of knowledge. Logic-math is where you actually can accomplish lasting things. When you make new technology or new ways of coordinating and organizing things, logic-math is the way to do it.
It would seem you don't know much about writers, artists, and the like. Most of them do have a very distinct determination and purpose and take these things very seriously. Quite a good number of the geniuses in history have been artists of various sorts. If you go back to the old great philosophers, the people who began refining math and logic, I think that you will find many of them who saw great importance in the arts. Look at the great artists of the renaissance and how many of them were also chemists, scientists, mathematicians, and inventors.
 

honestrosewater

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BicycleTree said:
All arts and humanities are mere recreation. I wouldn't call them "fun and games."
I don't even need to look to older or more serious genres to find counterexamples. Even entertainment-driven Hollywood provides several. Stanley Kubrick and Steven Spielberg come to mind as popular Hollywood directors that have used movies to express, communicate, and inform. Have you seen Paths of Glory, Full Metal Jacket, Schindler's List, Amistad, or The Color Purple? Do you think these movies have no purpose other than to entertain? Do you call them mere recreation?
(BTW, if you haven't seen Paths of Glory (it's relatively old- 1957), I highly recommend it.)
 

brewnog

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honestrosewater said:
I don't even need to look to older or more serious genres to find counterexamples. Even entertainment-driven Hollywood provides several. Stanley Kubrick and Steven Spielberg come to mind as popular Hollywood directors that have used movies to express, communicate, and inform. Have you seen Paths of Glory, Full Metal Jacket, Schindler's List, Amistad, or The Color Purple? Do you think these movies have no purpose other than to entertain? Do you call them mere recreation?

Even studies of History and Geography (both humanities) can provide enourmous amounts of insight into solving many problems with which the world is faced. They are far more than mere entertainment.
 

rachmaninoff

brewnog said:
Entertainment is a crucial part of human life, whether it be the reading of literature, listening to music, or viewing works of art.
Literature, music, etc. are not necessarily 'entertainment' - you might be confusing them with popular music and supermarket-shelf novels.
 

rachmaninoff

BicycleTree said:
All arts and humanities are mere recreation.
Have you read Faulkner's Nobel prize acceptance speech, 1950?

BicycleTree said:
Yes, I find logic-math knowledge to be more worthwhile than other kinds of knowledge. Logic-math is where you actually can accomplish lasting things. When you make new technology or new ways of coordinating and organizing things, logic-math is the way to do it.
And what makes you qualified to say this? Are you both a mathematician and an artist? And since when is technology the one and ultimate purpose of human existance?
 

brewnog

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rachmaninoff said:
Literature, music, etc. are not necessarily 'entertainment' - you might be confusing them with popular music and supermarket-shelf novels.
I completely agree, my point was more that entertainment is pretty crucial.
 
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music and art can be very mathematical. escher? istvan orosz? heard of these guys. just few of the many. hey, what about da vinci? he was certainly a mathematical artist!
 

brewnog

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fileen said:
art can be very mathematical.

Mmmm! Paint by Numbers! :smile:
 
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try perspective. op art. you are very closed minded.
 
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search mathematical art there are artists who specialize
 
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brewnog said:
Mmmm! Paint by Numbers! :smile:
I did a Monet at age 7. I'm still very proud of it.
 
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My talent is learning. If I want to be able to do something I just concentrate and figure it out. Thats the problem with people today, no one concentrates.
 

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