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Zapruder movie

  1. Mar 29, 2008 #1
    Would the Zapruder film (JFK assassination) be discussable? Not really suitable for minors or? I saw some pretty compelling evidence that it's faked.
     
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  3. Mar 29, 2008 #2

    Ivan Seeking

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    Faked?!?!? That's a first.

    If Evo doesn't want to discuss that here we can move it to S&D. What do you have?
     
  4. Mar 29, 2008 #3
    I'm not into US politics and I should be neutral. But from what I observed, I do think that JFK was on the very short list of the best US president ever and I understand why there could be a conspiracy to get rid of him and that sucks. Circumstantial evidence for that would be tampering with the Zapruder movie, but before I link to the movie itself, here are the problems:

    The first people on the grass left of Elm road are clearly looking far behind the presidential vehicle, even before anything unusual was going on.

    The street sign that hides the presidential car for a few seconds does not match the structure of the film (sharpness, grain, size), same problem with the street light a few seconds later.

    The people on the grass behind the vehicle are too large, which could be consistent with an editing trick known in 1963 already.

    Although the car moves at an even pace in the film, the motor drivers suddenly overtake it, while simultaneously all passengers move forward. This could be consistent with the car actually braking but the movie being altered to hide it.

    The driver and front seater look back and forward again at an incredible unrealistic pace.

    The shadows of the last bystanders on the grass move from blurred to sharp and blurred again within one frame, suggesting some editting. In the same frame the male bystander has his legs together but in the next frame they are almost a foot apart.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2008
  5. Mar 29, 2008 #4

    russ_watters

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    Not having a copy of it handy, it is tough to comment on the claims except to say that if the evidence of tampering is so obvious, why wasn't it exposed in 1964?
     
  6. Mar 29, 2008 #5

    russ_watters

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    I don't believe the conspiracy theories, but we often hear about his marksmanship skills. According to the Wik link on him, his level of qualification was relatively low. He qualified as "sharpshooter" which is, in fact, the middle of three qualification levels, not the highest.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2008
  7. Mar 29, 2008 #6
    Just find yourself that copy and judge for yourself (hint = youtube
     
  8. Mar 29, 2008 #7

    russ_watters

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    A youtube copy of the film could not possibly be of good enough quality to see such effects. In fact, if you noticed such effects on a YouTube video, you very likely saw compression effects, which block-off different parts of the frame and compress them separately.)
     
  9. Mar 29, 2008 #8
    Was the original of high quality anyway? That was 40 years ago.
     
  10. Mar 30, 2008 #9
    No I saw the complete explanation of all the artificialities and when shown it's obvious. Myself I discovered already that the first pair of people on the grass are looking in the wrong direction.

    Still reluctant to link to that movie, as I think it's unsuitable for minors.
     
  11. Mar 30, 2008 #10

    Ivan Seeking

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    Andre, that video has been shown on US televisions for decades.
     
  12. Mar 30, 2008 #11
    It's available on Youtube, without having to log in. So you don't have to be over 18 to view it.
     
  13. Mar 30, 2008 #12
    When I watch the Zapruder film I see JFK's head go back & to the left, which implies that a shot came from the front/right. (probably from the grassy knoll) I've never understood what the debate is all about.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Mar 30, 2008 #13
    Actually it looks that way but it actually goes forward. If you watch the video carefully, it looks like Jackie pushes him back after the shot hits. The debate is about the unreliable assumptions, that don't stand up to well to detailed analysis.



    That doesn't rule out a shot form the grassy knoll, but it doesn't rule it in either.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
  15. Mar 30, 2008 #14
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
  16. Mar 30, 2008 #15

    Ivan Seeking

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    A bullet fired from the rear left can cause the head to recoil back and left. This results from conservation of momentum and the expelled mass moving forward and right. It was first demonstrated in regards to this investigation by Luis Alvarez by shooting into a watermelon.

    Try setting up the three-body problem [bullet, head, expelled mass]. One can see that this result is allowed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2008
  17. Mar 30, 2008 #16

    Ivan Seeking

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    Look folks, this is about the Zupruder film, not conspiracy theories.

    Remember, if this degenerates into a conspiracy discussion then the thread will be locked and points issued for violations of the posting guidelines.

    The off topic posts have been deleted.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2008
  18. Mar 30, 2008 #17
    Well in that case it seems pretty clear cut, the video was faked, I think André's youtube link is pretty convincing. Apologies, but the video does involve leading questions about the event, never meant to take it into x territory, just to say that I find x territory to be somewhat lacking generally.
     
  19. Mar 30, 2008 #18

    Ivan Seeking

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    Eh, there are a couple of interesting points. The one that I found most interesting is the spread of the man's legs that allegedly changes in one frame. I was watching his motion relative to that of the people in the car, and there does seem to be a discrepancy.

    Most of the rest didn't impress me on a first pass. What they claim could be so but I hardly see it as self-evident. There are other points that bother me as well. For example, while some people do appear to be looking the wrong direction, it seems that I can also see a few people tracking the car with their cameras.

    This is a clear cut case of S&D so I'm moving the thread. Debunking or debate about the film is fine, but we can only speak to the evidence on the film and not to greater conspiracy theories.
     
  20. Mar 30, 2008 #19
    While I seriously doubt LWO was a lone gunman (I doubt he was a gunman at all), I don't buy this video. If you watch the man's legs come apart too fast, you will see that the secret service agent's legs come together just as quickly. In other versions of the film, the man appears to be walking with the woman next to him, which makes it not so hard to believe his legs could separate so quickly (again look at the secret service agent). And the lamppost appears to just have a sign strapped to it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2008
  21. Mar 30, 2008 #20

    Ivan Seeking

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    Has anyone checked other sources for the film to ensure that what we see here isn't the real hoax?
     
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