Life in Canada and elsewhere [Archive]

singleton

Nov4-04, 09:40 PM

Hrm... while I'm not in BC, Ontario is great too!

We have tons of scenery and CLEAN air. Lots of nature around and it is beautiful many times of the year. Not too hot in the summer, winters you might need to adjust to.

In Canada we value liberty and are more liberal than those south of the border. Decriminalization of MJ will be happening sooner than later it seems. We don't ban things like gay marriage? Even if these two don't affect you at all it is still reflective of how great we are.

You can still buy guns here, just not concealed carry (or carry at all for that matter).

Healthcare isn't the greatest but it isn't too bad either. If you can't sit for a couple hours in the ER for non life threatening treatment when it is FREE then you can....go fly a kite ;)

THE BEER AND THE WOMEN are reason enough to come over to the dark side :biggrin:

You can always take pride and feel secure in the fact neither Iran or NK will light a nuke off on your a$$ when reich marshal instates your next war.

Religion isn't nearly as big here nor does it rule our politics.

Our students perform above the USA in school rankings so it would be a better place to raise children.

Crime? Murders? The total number of homicides in Canada is pretty darn small (around 600 yearly). While we have less people the incidence rate is much smaller too.

Toronto is the multicultural city in the world? (reflects our acceptance of everyone)

The question you should ask yourself is why DON'T you want to come here? :smile:

franznietzsche

Nov4-04, 09:57 PM

Come to Brunei, the country where there hasn't been a murder case for years, and where no one is intelligent enough to even contemplate murder/suicide.

In short, it's a great life here.

EDIT: Oh, there is just one more thing I would like to add. The population of Brunei numbers only 350,000 so you might get a little lonely from talking to the trees. However, that's better than talking to the bush, isn't it? :wink:

But the tress don't spout fundamentalism at you, remember that.

tumor

Nov4-04, 10:01 PM

But the tress don't spout fundamentalism at you,

No ? go down to texas

franznietzsche

Nov4-04, 10:40 PM

No ? go down to texas

Touche. I concede.

Smurf

Nov5-04, 03:31 AM

:rofl: @ tumor and franz

Smurf

Nov5-04, 04:04 AM

I was just reading what the CIA factbook had to say about Brunei and I have some questions.
What is Shari's Law?
Does Brunei have a parliament?
How much power does the Sultanate have?
How much tension is there with Malaysia?
Is there segregation in Brunei and how bad is it? (paticularly between muslims and Christians)

Smurf

Nov5-04, 04:19 AM

Everything you want to know about canada you can find by listening to Arrogant Worms. :rofl: :rofl:

Every Canadian is given a radioactive MAPLE LEAF TATTOO right on their FOREHEAD so that the EVIL OVERLORDS in ONTARIO can TRACK them! But it's only visible if you're from ONTARIO!
sad but true... :cry:
http://www.thoughtviper.com/inexob/canada.html

tribdog

Nov5-04, 07:29 AM

The only bad thing about Canada is that it's full of Canadians. And it's such a pain buying anything. I don't think they accept Canadian coins even in Canada.

I remember reading the Guiness Book of World Records when I was little and the kid who got the biggest allowance was from Brunei. He got several hundred thousand every week if I remember correctly.

Kerrie

Nov5-04, 08:05 AM

Ivan, Vancouver is a wonderful and beautiful international city that embraces many different cultures. I would be very curious to know what it would take for an American to become a citizen there. While I do have faith that America can be one of the greatest nations, I also think the whole censorship in general will begin to infringe on our liberties more and more because we have a government now dominated by conservatives.

The people are wonderful there, at least in BC. There aren't issues like we have here, I think Canada can set a great example to Americans of how to behave. The drawback of Canada is many parts are frigid cold. That for me is hard to deal with, but I guess to others, the rain in my part of the world is hard for some to deal with as well. I am just so used to it, I don't even think twice about it let alone bring an umbrella.

Anyone know what it takes for an American to become a Canadian citizen without having to marry one? I heard you need a lot of money and an attorney, but that's it.

Clausius2

Nov5-04, 08:38 AM

Please give your best sales pitch for your best place to live outside of the US.

Come to Spain. Here you are allowed to say anything stupid and non sense, without having nobody scolding you for doing that. That's our democracy.

Also, you will have the best food in the world, the best red wine (surely you will put on weight). You can dance in discotheques and go to pubs until the 4 A.M. without being afraid for disturbing the neighbors (f..ck them!). This is, again our democracy.

And for being a foreign man, the police will never fine you, because the fines are only for spanish people (that's our burocracy).

If you want something more, and if you hate USA, nevermind!. Here our goverment is arising an anti-americanism campaign, believing increduly that another european governments will make the same instead of bending their knees in front of Bush (that's our intelligent prime minister).

In fact you will pay some time of fun and food with high taxes and low journals, and with a poor technologic and social situation.

Come to Spain!!

mathlete

Nov5-04, 08:57 AM

recon

Nov5-04, 10:09 AM

What is Sharia's Law?
Sharia's Law is an Islamic law. You can do a search on it online.

Does Brunei have a parliament? How much power does the Sultanate have?
The parliament reopened just a few weeks ago. However, the Sultan still retains absolute power. More here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3688860.stm).

How much tension is there with Malaysia?
There are some territorial disputes on land, and more recently, offshore in the oil and gas ridge areas of the deepwater offshore. The two governments are still on very friendly terms.

Is there segregation in Brunei and how bad is it? (paticularly between muslims and Christians?
As in any other country, there is segregation to some degree. However, it is no worse than in Singapore.

kawikdx225

Nov5-04, 11:32 AM

I am interested in hearing about life in Canada; Vancouver BC in particular. Tsu and I have considered leaving the US for many years. In light of the election we are more serious than ever. This place is getting scary! :surprised

Please give your best sales pitch for your best place to live outside of the US.

I think this is a great idea. There are so many different style governments throughout the world that it makes perfect sense to find a government you like then move to that country.

As seen with our last election most Americans like the USA just the way it is. We dont want socialism. We like the pledge of alligence just the way it is. We dont want to see two guys making out in the park when playing frisbee with our kids. Christmas is the celibration of the birth of Christ!!

So I think this is a great idea I just wish more complainers would follow your lead and leave. This would also make the presidental election a little less stressful.

Goodbye.

P.S. Take Michael Moore with you!!! :devil:

Kerrie

Nov5-04, 12:40 PM

I think this is a great idea. There are so many different style governments throughout the world that it makes perfect sense to find a government you like then move to that country.

As seen with our last election most Americans like the USA just the way it is. We dont want socialism. We like the pledge of alligence just the way it is. We dont want to see two guys making out in the park when playing frisbee with our kids. Christmas is the celibration of the birth of Christ!!

So I think this is a great idea I just wish more complainers would follow your lead and leave. This would also make the presidental election a little less stressful.

Goodbye.

P.S. Take Michael Moore with you!!! :devil:

and here lies why Americans have a negative reputation...

Mazuz

Nov5-04, 01:33 PM

Greg Bernhardt

Nov5-04, 01:44 PM

drama drama drama

i_wish_i_was_smart

Nov5-04, 02:33 PM

take it from someone whos lived from one end of the country to another, every province is different the people the climat and the scenery, they are all gorgous(in there own way), generaly people are friendly and courtyous, you'll have to visit to find what you really re looking for, BC is gorgeous, if you like skiing the the mountains are right there, in the summer you want to go surfing, you can do that too, winter is mild and temperate(but it rains lots), summer is no too hot either.
but Ontario has a lot to offer also, i wont list everything but its worth a visit thats for sure

oh and our beer and women are great

Ivan Seeking

Nov5-04, 03:12 PM

It seems that we are not alone. This morning the Canadian government released a statement to Americans reminding them the they must immigrate like everyone else. Luckily - according to the Canadian immigration site - as degreed professionals Tsu and I stand a good chance of getting in.

There was also a map shown on the news [source unknown] that shows the United States of Canada, which includes the western and NE Kerry states, and Jesusland down below in red. :rolleyes:

Ivan Seeking

Nov5-04, 03:31 PM

Thanks for the input so far. It sounds great! Note also that any advice about finding jobs is appreciated. I may be able to find contract work but I don't know the Canadian laws yet. Here I am self employed as a systems integrator. Am I likely to be able to continue? I know the customers are there... Next, Tsu is an X-Ray/CT technologist. Does anyone know about the life of a medical workers in Canada?

tribdog

Nov5-04, 03:49 PM

Next, Tsu is an X-Ray/CT technologist. Does anyone know about the life of a medical workers in Canada?
frostbite...moose attacks....alcohol poisoning
that should about cover it.

Ivan Seeking

Nov5-04, 04:34 PM

So I think this is a great idea I just wish more complainers would follow your lead and leave... Goodbye.

P.S. Take Michael Moore with you!!! :devil:

I never saw F911 and I don't care about Moore. I am a Christian who accepts Jesus, but not Bush as his saviour. Would you like to throw some rocks at my car as we leave...in the name of Jesus?

You won. We give up. Why the hostility?

Dooga Blackrazor

Nov5-04, 04:52 PM

My Dad lives in Vancouver but I'm on the East Coast. From my experience Vancouver B.C. is the most beautiful city I've ever scene. I find the air quality magnificent and the weather to be great in Vancouver.

The cost of buying an apartment or a house is outragous in Vancouver though. Medical professions and most other professions probably receive less pay; however, in Canada I haven't heard tell of anyone with a good education and decent people skills not finding work and getting by - but I'm young.

bross7

Nov5-04, 05:44 PM

I never saw F911 and I don't care about Moore. I am a Christian who accepts Jesus, but not Bush as his saviour. Would you like to throw some rocks at my car as we leave...in the name of Jesus?

You won. We give up. Why the hostility?

Please accept my open invitation potential citizen A343DWZ-37684243

Well you have to give those ideals up if want to come to Canada. We have no use for your ideas and free speech. A mandatory 3 year state driven integration session must be taken to determine your state appointed job and sleeping location.
I await your response at my allocated position.
Regards, Canadian Government
Immigration Officer DW2543-364534241
---------------------------------------------

Man, did you ever call our number. Please save us from our communism in Canada. Who is this Jesus you speak of?

Smurf

Nov5-04, 05:51 PM

obviously we have some anti-socialists too

There's a small island off the coast from my town called Denmon Island, its densly populated and 80% american from the draft. Just something I thought I'd share.

Cancel your Canada plans, the Conservatives just privatized our healthcare and sold them to an American company.
..
..
..
No? Not sinking in? then get this:
The FBI can phone up the American company and get any information on Canadian citizens they have and you won't know about it.

I'm moving to Europe, I hear brussels is nice.

Dooga Blackrazor

Nov5-04, 07:42 PM

BC has privatized healthcare now - what is this? I haven't heard anything on the news about that.

tribdog

Nov5-04, 08:33 PM

Was Canada the 49th or the 50th state? I never can get it straight.

check

Nov5-04, 08:38 PM

Was Canada the 49th or the 50th state? I never can get it straight.

That's such a poor 'joke.' It makes absolutely no sense. But is that seriously the mindset of a lot of Americans? That Canada is just like the States or aspires to be or is more or less controlled by America? :confused:

Dooga Blackrazor

Nov5-04, 08:54 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. President Bush did think our Prime Minister was Jean Poutine at one point.

Kerrie

Nov5-04, 09:00 PM

That's such a poor 'joke.' It makes absolutely no sense. But is that seriously the mindset of a lot of Americans? That Canada is just like the States or aspires to be or is more or less controlled by America? :confused:

no offense to tribdog, but yes, that is the arrogant mindset of many americans...

tribdog

Nov5-04, 09:12 PM

Lol. I share the opinion of lots of Americans? wow. I don't have that opinion anymore though. I have had a change of heart. I just watched an amazing documentary about Canadian Life. I was really impressed. Especially when Doug says "Take off, you hoser." and his brother Bob says "No! You take off." I didn't realize the struggle that the founding fathers of Canada went through. Americans only had the Red Coats, but Canadians had Beer Companies turning hockey players into zombies. oh, and that National Anthem "Kooo Looo Kuku Kooo Looo cooocoooo." It truly is a "Strange Brew"

tumor

Nov5-04, 11:28 PM

You guys have been to the Vancouver's East Hastings street?
HORROR!! :eek:

Kerrie

Nov6-04, 10:12 AM

You guys have been to the Vancouver's East Hastings street?
HORROR!! :eek:

i was there just in March, yea, a lil scary... :surprised

Smurf

Nov6-04, 03:24 PM

Our medical workers dont get paid as much as the ones in America do due to the healthcare system, but we do sorely need doctors and I you will have enough to live comfortably.

Ivan Seeking

Nov7-04, 12:27 AM

The number of US citizens visiting Canada's main immigration website has shot up six-fold as Americans flirt with the idea of abandoning their homeland after President George Bush's election win this week. [continued]
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004110514220002858574&dt=20041105142200&w=RTR&coview=

...Canadian officials made clear on Wednesday that any U.S. citizens so fed up with Bush that they want to make a fresh start up north would have to stand in line like any other would-be immigrants -- a wait that can take up to a year.
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=38018

http://www.brendoman.com/i%20am%20filled%20with%20the%20love%20of%20Christ! !!.jpg
http://www.brendoman.com/archivesnew/008680.html

Smurf

Nov7-04, 02:04 AM

That map is hilarious

Polly

Nov7-04, 08:35 AM

"God bless his (Arafat) soul"? Gave me the shivers.

Kerrie

Nov7-04, 09:36 AM

great map Ivan, it speaks volumes...

marlon

Nov7-04, 09:36 AM

I am a European. Would it be difficult for me to become a Canadian citizen. How are the earnings for someone with a scientific background? Applied physics that is...

regards
marlon

tumor

Nov7-04, 10:57 AM

I am a European. Would it be difficult for me to become a Canadian citizen. How are the earnings for someone with a scientific background? Applied physics that is...

regards
marlon

I live in Canada man!,and I have to tell you that Canada does not invest any money into research,you would get bored here,and sooner or later you gonna end up in states.
Maybe they invest little though, but I'm ashamed sometimes when i see statistics on percentage of GDP spend on research :redface:
Canada is lucky in having next door neighboor scientific giant like USA, anything interesting done in States always spills to us in Canada.
Otherwise we will be more like Argentina or Brazil.

Evo

Nov7-04, 01:00 PM

Looks like we can become virtual Canadians. This was on the site Ivan posted with the map.

Welcome, Virtual Canadians!

This is Virtually Canada.
This is a site for citizens of the United States who no longer wish to be identified with that nation state, or who feel that it has abandoned them, or that it even threatens them.

Many talk about fleeing the United States to Canada, but between the hardships of relocation, and the difficulty of obtaining actual Canadian citizenship, that may not be an option for many. There's also the lingering desire to stay and try to do some good in the States. The solution: become a Virtual Canadian. It's idealist protest, combined with pragmatic reality.

http://virtualcanadian.org/

Dagenais

Nov7-04, 02:11 PM

An American will probably be most comfortable in Alberta or Ontario. Alberta is very American due to the many US companies down there. I've read that around 10% of the people down there are Americans. The economy is probably best there.

IMO, BC is really going downhill. There are a lot more weirdos and rude aholes down there. It looks like the weirdos have left Hastings and spread.

You might want to look at this (http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/toptencities/experts.html)

Come to Brunei, the country where there hasn't been a murder case for years, and where no one is intelligent enough to even contemplate murder/suicide.

Isn't it almost impossible to get a Brunei citizenship?

I am interested in hearing about life in Canada; Vancouver BC in particular. Tsu and I have considered leaving the US for many years. In light of the election we are more serious than ever. This place is getting scary!

Your family hasn't immigrated much, have they?

You make it sound so damn easy. To just move - like customs will simply let you waltz in.

But as you mentioned, you are a science professional so you'll have a better chance. An even better one if you have an education and a good sum of money.

THE BEER AND THE WOMEN are reason enough to come over to the dark side

Maybe in Quebec, but not Ontario.

Our students perform above the USA in school rankings so it would be a better place to raise children.

Isn't the Ontario school system vastly different from that of other Provinces in Canada (excluding Quebec)? Univeresities have different requirements for Ontario schooling.

The problem with the Canadian school system is that they don't really seperate students. In the US, they have more money for more classes. In Canada, the bad, average and good students could all get stuck together in the same english, science or math class. The schooling in British Columbia can simply be horrible.

My Dad lives in Vancouver but I'm on the East Coast. From my experience Vancouver B.C. is the most beautiful city I've ever scene. I find the air quality magnificent and the weather to be great in Vancouver.

The cost of buying an apartment or a house is outragous in Vancouver though. Medical professions and most other professions probably receive less pay; however, in Canada I haven't heard tell of anyone with a good education and decent people skills not finding work and getting by - but I'm young.

In BC, I know quite a few people with bachelors in Computer Science or other degrees in technology that can't find work. B.C.'s economy isn't exactly great...or good. They have that new, "acheive BC" program now.

Seeking will be shocked at the prices of houses in B.C. and the tax.

That's such a poor 'joke.' It makes absolutely no sense. But is that seriously the mindset of a lot of Americans? That Canada is just like the States or aspires to be or is more or less controlled by America?

As far as Ontario and Alberta goes - yes. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, have much US influence.

tumor

Nov7-04, 02:53 PM

Canada as to my experience is the most PC country in the world,no other country comes even close(USA maybe)

jai6638

Nov7-04, 03:32 PM

Hrm... while I'm not in BC, Ontario is great too!

Religion isn't nearly as big here nor does it rule our politics.

Our students perform above the USA in school rankings so it would be a better place to raise children.

dunno if this is true but have heard canada's public education system is worse than US's so maybe that would explain why the students perform better?

i aint american and so im not being biased or anything.. thats just what i've heard... also, i have cousins and friends who went from my country ( india ) and were in 10th grade in my country and were bumped up to the 11th grade in canada coz they found the 10th grade in Canada ( in toronto and vancouver ) really easy...

recon

Nov7-04, 09:32 PM

Isn't it almost impossible to get a Brunei citizenship?

Unfortunately, this is true. However, you can still enjoy life as an expat in Brunei. Just imagine: 0% income tax, sunny and warm weather all year round, very low crime rate, cheap living, cheap fuel...

tumor

Nov7-04, 09:48 PM

If I marry Brunei citizen do I get citizenship in 4-5 years?

fourier jr

Nov7-04, 09:58 PM

no offense to tribdog, but yes, that is the arrogant mindset of many americans...

& most canadian politicians in the last 100yrs or so... i'm more worried about the people we elect selling us out than people like Bush who understandably want all our resources, etc

"You must not take the Militia seriously, for though it is useful for suppressing internal differences, it will not be required for the defence of the country, as the Monroe Doctrine [proclaiming US military hegemony in the Americas] protects us against enemy aggression." - Wilfred Laurier

"the percentage of wholly manufactured commodities which we have been exporting has been continually increasing. In other words, we are getting away from the stage of a country which is selling its raw materials to the stage where as a country we are developing a large manufacturing industry as well... we have reached a higher in our manufacturing development in Canada, having regard to the age of the country an its population, than has, I believe, any other country in the history of the world." - WLM King on US branch plants in Canada

check

Nov7-04, 10:08 PM

dunno if this is true but have heard canada's public education system is worse than US's so maybe that would explain why the students perform better?

I'm not sure if that's true. I think there's more consistency in the public school system in Canada than in the US in terms of both performance and funding. I've heard of students from my old high school moving to the States for a couple of years and then moving back saying how when they went to school here they were getting 60s-70s. and when they moved to the states they got some of the highest marks in their classes.

i aint american and so im not being biased or anything.. thats just what i've heard... also, i have cousins and friends who went from my country ( india ) and were in 10th grade in my country and were bumped up to the 11th grade in canada coz they found the 10th grade in Canada ( in toronto and vancouver ) really easy...

I think this is true of the education system in North America in general. In Asia and Europe and probably other places students are expected to learn faster than students in North America. I think there's much too much 'babying' in elementary and secondary schools in N.America.

Dagenais

Nov7-04, 10:52 PM

I've heard of students from my old high school moving to the States for a couple of years and then moving back saying how when they went to school here they were getting 60s-70s. and when they moved to the states they got some of the highest marks in their classes.

In some BC schools, a high 70 counts as a B, and you won't get an F until you 50%.

In most US schools, a high 70 is a C, while the F scale is at 60%.

School funding may be more consistent in Canada, but rich suburban schools in the US can't be beat by it's BC counterparts.

recon

Nov7-04, 10:55 PM

If I marry Brunei citizen do I get citizenship in 4-5 years?

If you're a girl, yes. If you're a boy, no. But if you have children and one of the parents is a Brunei citizen, then the child will automatically receive Brunei citizenship.

You can become a Permanent Resident of Brunei instead of a citizen. I'm not sure how the procedure works, but a lot of Malaysians come over to Brunei to become Permanent Residents.

tribdog

Nov7-04, 10:57 PM

That's why I don't invite Malaysians to my parties. They pick a spot on the couch and you can't get them to leave.

recon

Nov7-04, 11:28 PM

That's why I don't invite Malaysians to my parties. They pick a spot on the couch and you can't get them to leave.

:rofl: Well said, tribdog.

Smurf

Nov8-04, 01:16 AM

I resent [almost] everything Daganais has said about BC Education, I hold it in quite high regard.

Kerrie

Nov8-04, 08:04 AM

I resent [almost] everything Daganais has said about BC Education, I hold it in quite high regard.

at least it is only his opinion :wink:

i think this topic has become off track from what ivan originally intended it to be. perhaps we should split the thread?

vanesch

Nov8-04, 09:41 AM

I'm moving to Europe, I hear brussels is nice.

Sort of. It's my native town :smile:

The thing I didn't like was this eternal conflict between the two language groups there, but apart from that it is a nice place to be. Life isn't very expensive, and in general, people are on the average not too stressed. The center is a nice medieval city (however, a bit damaged due to modern construction projects of the 70ies) and there are nice green suburbs. By the fast train (TGV) you are at one hour riding from Paris and - I think - two or three hours from London.

jai6638

Nov8-04, 11:21 AM

Unfortunately, this is true. However, you can still enjoy life as an expat in Brunei. Just imagine: 0% income tax, sunny and warm weather all year round, very low crime rate, cheap living, cheap fuel...

if u like Brunei then u'd definately like Dubai, United Arab emirates where theres No tax, sunny and warm weather all year round, very low crime rate, very cheap fuel, 70% expat population ( which includes Americans, Britons, Indians,etc ) , a place which has the worlds only man-made island ,etc..

And it isnt like the typical Middle-eastern coutnry like u americans might think... :p... Again like brunei, the downside is u dont get citizenship but who cares.. my family has been living there for like 50-60 years now without the threat of being kicked out..

www.godubai.com
www.thepalm.co.ae

Cheers

Nov8-04, 07:32 PM

Canada as to my experience is the most PC country in the world,no other country comes even close(USA maybe)

I really disagree with that comment. The US is so much more PC and WAY more Conservative. They bleep out *** and b*tch (censored here too lol) on network tv. Say what? You can't look at a black person funny in the US or you are a "racist". American media is so censored in general compared to Canadian.

I really don't know what you base your comments on. Certainly Canada isn't the Netherlands, but it's definitely not as severly conservative as the US.

Nov8-04, 07:46 PM

As for the British Columbia Education System, my thirteen year experience in it was good enough. Sure it was easy for me, but I'm a smart guy. I have heard that American high school is a joke compared to what we do.

And to address the original thread topic, I hate the City of Vancouver. It is so overrated, imo. It gets all the fanfare just because it's a big city, when it's actually the City of Victoria that is the green, beautiful, "supernatural" (tourism slogan) city. Everything that Vancouver is supposed to be and isn't Victoria is. And everything bad about Vancouver (dirty, busy, developed) is absent in Victoria. And while everybody thinks Vancouver is a great multicultural city, it really isn't. It's a conglomerate of several unicultural cities. Richmond is an Asian city, Surrey is an East Indian/Punjabi/Sikh city and West/North Vancouver are largely Caucasian. And if you think those are prejudiced stereotypes, you haven't been to the Lower Mainland of British Columbia.

For Americans and others, Victoria (pop. appx. 350,000), the capital of the Province of British Columbia, is located on Vancouver Island 30 or so kilometres from mainland BC and a similar distance to Port Angeles, Washington across the water.

Oh, and I really hate the Canucks.

GO FLAMES GO!!!

Ivan Seeking

Nov8-04, 08:26 PM

Thanks for all of the input so far and please keep it coming. After reviewing the immigration laws and considering some economics, we have a plan that puts us in BC as early as next summer. It's just a plan for now but it looks reasonable. Lots to learn...

We are also holding out for a rumored rift in the Republican party that will stop Bush, but at this point I have little hope.

Gokul43201

Nov8-04, 08:42 PM

Ivan, would you think of staying if Bush kicks out Rummy and Wolfie, and invites McCain and Hagel to the Cabinet ?

Ivan Seeking

Nov8-04, 08:53 PM

I don't know if anything could cause a change of heart or not. For me, as nearly as I can tell, my country died last week.

It's not that Bush was re-elected; it's that he could be. It's not that the Constitution is treated by the Bush machine like an after-thought, it's that so few even understand why this is a problem.

Maybe with time I will settle down, but after a week my anger has only grown. You know, for most of my life I would have given my life for my country - for a time I thought I might in Cambodia. But last week I knew that something had fundamentally changed for me when I saw an American flag. It made me nauseas.

This was not just an election. It goes much deeper than that.

check

Nov8-04, 09:27 PM

Well Ivan, let me be the first to welcome you! You've made a fine choice. :)

ShawnD

Nov8-04, 09:50 PM

The problem with the Canadian school system is that they don't really seperate students. In the US, they have more money for more classes. In Canada, the bad, average and good students could all get stuck together in the same english, science or math class.
That's not exactly true. Each province has a different setup, but for Alberta the retards are only groups with the genious for grades 1-9. For grades 10-12, there are several distinct skill levels. Courses ending with a 0 are the best (required for university), courses ending with 3 are for underachievers (accepted at some tech and trade schools), courses ending with a 4 are for people with no academic future.

check

Nov8-04, 10:36 PM

That's not exactly true. Each province has a different setup, but for Alberta the retards are only groups with the genious for grades 1-9. For grades 10-12, there are several distinct skill levels. Courses ending with a 0 are the best (required for university), courses ending with 3 are for underachievers (accepted at some tech and trade schools), courses ending with a 4 are for people with no academic future.

Same in Ontario.

Grades 9 and 10 have ‘Academic,’ ‘Applied’ and ‘Essentials’ levels. Academic are geared towards students who are stronger learners and who wish to go on to University. ‘Applied’ is for students who aren’t as strong in the subject and ‘Essentials’ is very remedial. In grades 11 and 12 there are ‘University’, ‘University/College’, ‘College’, ‘Open’ and ‘Work place prep.’ (or something like that) level classes. Again, those are listed in decreasing difficulty (however, there are some courses only offered at certain levels). Since there are no entrance exams for Ontario universities and colleges, universities look at ‘University’ and ‘University/College’ level courses as prerequisites. It’s a pretty smart system and so far it has worked quite well.

Polly

Nov8-04, 11:06 PM

ShawnD

Nov8-04, 11:07 PM

Since there are no entrance exams for Ontario universities and colleges, universities look at ‘University’ and ‘University/College’ level courses as prerequisites. It’s a pretty smart system and so far it has worked quite well.
Alberta universities are the same way. To get into the tech school I attend right now, all I had to do was give them a copy of my marks. No special exams or essays. :wink:

Ivan Seeking

Nov9-04, 01:15 AM

A good part of America died in my heart too. But then I think about all those who have voted for Kerry....The next four years is going to be hard for all of us around the world.
Cheer up Ivan, as soon as you have settled down in Canada, Hong Kong welcomes you.

I'm afraid this adminstration will have fundamental ramifications for decades to come - esp depending on what happens with the Supreme Court Justices. If I was twenty I might be willing to continue the good fight, and for most of my life I have done everything I can to push, argue, debate, beg, or plead the point, but I have watched our rights erode for decades. I don't see that nearly enough people care or any reason why anything will change significantly in the years that I have left. Anyway, like I said, this is not just about one election, this is about 51% of this nation and whatever makes it possible for someone like Bush to be re-elected. I can't even express my outrage... Sorry to be so negative. I'll stop now.

Ivan Seeking

Nov9-04, 01:16 AM

Well Ivan, let me be the first to welcome you! You've made a fine choice. :)

Thanks check. :smile:

Polly

Nov9-04, 01:18 AM

I understand.

tribdog

Nov9-04, 04:45 AM

I don't know if anything could cause a change of heart or not. For me, as nearly as I can tell, my country died last week.

.
Oh my GAWD! Do you have a Soundtrack? Some Violins and Violas maybe a sad Oboe playing in the background. I haven't see you this depressed since the time you couldn't get out of bed for a week because of the emotional anguish you felt over the fact that you had run out of hot water before you were able to "repeat"

Dagenais

Nov9-04, 01:35 PM

I have heard that American high school is a joke compared to what we do.

I went to B.C. school and American-style school. BC had no Advance Placement classes at my school - everyone were at the same level of English and Math.

The schools had less money, the teachers weren't that great.

They only have 4 classes (and a 1.5 hour lunch, compared to a US 30 minute). And a semester of classes like English and Math as opposed to a year.

B.C.'s schooling isn't good. Anyone that's been in school out of B.C. can admit that (the person from India is an example). We have people here saying that India's schooling is harder, and I can say the same for Quebec and US's system (at least the one I experienced).

Nov9-04, 02:11 PM

i_wish_i_was_smart

Nov9-04, 07:10 PM

Ek....China doesnt take care of Hong Kong since Hong Kong was so much better off then the rest of China, the government of China decided it was best to let Hong Kong govern themselves

Dagenais i protest your claim of Quebec having a good education system since all quebecers i saw that moved to alberta droped down a grade, like someone who would be in secondaire 5 (how ever high that is) had to drop down a grade , they had some classes in the right grade but the rest were all a grade lower, and Ontario just changed their system of education to the same as albertas, alberta had that system a long time ago, i know cause i was the first grade to ever be implimented in that new system in ontario then i moved to alberta, so if anything Hong Kong is taking alberta's education system, i dont like alberta but give credit where credit is due.

and if you can prove me wrong about the difference between quebec's system and albertas system, feel free to do so

check

Nov9-04, 09:15 PM

Oh, oh! I almost forgot another great thing about Canada! A huge surplus of flu shots! Hehe.

Just got this email from my school:

“This is a reminder that UWO Student Health Services is offering free
influenza vaccinations to registered UWO students (full-time & part-time, main campus and affiliate colleges)”

I’m still not gonna get it tho… or maybe I should just ask to take mine home and sell it on ebay? :p

Ivan Seeking

Nov9-04, 09:40 PM

Oh my GAWD! Do you have a Soundtrack? Some Violins and Violas maybe a sad Oboe playing in the background. I haven't see you this depressed since the time you couldn't get out of bed for a week because of the emotional anguish you felt over the fact that you had run out of hot water before you were able to "repeat"

Now I remember why I ignore you. Not everything is a joke.

Smurf

Nov9-04, 10:02 PM

I went to B.C. school and American-style school. BC had no Advance Placement classes at my school - everyone were at the same level of English and Math.

The schools had less money, the teachers weren't that great.

They only have 4 classes (and a 1.5 hour lunch, compared to a US 30 minute). And a semester of classes like English and Math as opposed to a year.

B.C.'s schooling isn't good. Anyone that's been in school out of B.C. can admit that (the person from India is an example). We have people here saying that India's schooling is harder, and I can say the same for Quebec and US's system (at least the one I experienced).

In my high school its 4-8 classes per semester, 2 semesters a year, that makes 8 Academic courses or up to 16 non-academic courses a year (which are only 1 term long, 2 terms per semester), it's a 4 day block cycle and I think it's quite efficient. School starts at 9 and ends at 3 and lunch is 30-40 minutes (depends on if AG is on that day). Our Universities are also some of the best in the nation.

Sorry Dagenais but you can't base the whole education system on a single school and some people's opinions, BC is one of the most varied areas in the world (no really - look at some geological maps and you'll see) and our people reflect that.

And Ivan, if you tell people you moved here because you hate bush you'll be accepted emediatly :biggrin:
welcome to canada!
We're not as xenophobic as America (but just as narcassistic!)

Ivan Seeking

Nov9-04, 10:16 PM

That's why we thought of Canada. Thanks Smurf, that's good to know. If I found that there is any chance that someone like Bush could get elected in Canada, then I would have serious reservations about any move there. In fact I still need to do some reading about the views there - to confirm or not what I believe to be true. Do you know what the numbers are as related to Bush's popularity there?

Tsu liked my comment on Canada: It has long been the land of the free for those oppressed in the land of the free.

Dagenais

Nov9-04, 11:38 PM

If I found that there is any chance that someone like Bush could get elected in Canada, then I would have serious reservations about any move there.

I hope you realize that Canada has its own version of George Bush...or at least a, "Bush-like" politician. His name is Stephen Harper and he is quite popular in western Canada, especially Alberta.

Of course, Harper's chances of getting elected are very narrow, but he did beat the NDP and was a runner-up in the election against the Liberals. Therefore, you should be aware of him. I've linked to his party at the bottom of this post.

Dagenais i protest your claim of Quebec having a good education system since all quebecers i saw that moved to alberta droped down a grade, like someone who would be in secondaire 5 (how ever high that is) had to drop down a grade , they had some classes in the right grade but the rest were all a grade lower

You would think that would happen as they probably speak french as opposed to english. Keep in mind that french is the 1st language of 80% of Quebecois. If you have trouble at english and you attend school in Alberta, it's only natural that they would be held-back. Throw someone from Alberta into Quebec (french school), and the same would likely happen. Unless you expect them to know french well enough to study history, math, science and...french. Also, how many students are you talking about? 2, 3? Details.

Quebec's school system is awesome. The fact that Montreal has the highest post-secondary education rate (per capita) in all of North America, simply helps in portraying this. You'll probably deny that this has nothing to do with basic education, but when more students than any other city in Montreal head to upper education, they must be doing something better than anyone else. Even cities such as Sherbrooke (2 universities, 3 colleges) and medium cities (for Canada) like Trois-Rivieres has a University and is bustling with young, educated people.

with more post-secondary students per capita than any other city in North America, Montreal is in no shortage of educated young people.

Québec’s education system is one of the most modern in the industrialized world, thanks to a network of quality schools.

French is the first language of over 80 percent of the population of Québec. The proportion of Quebeckers who say they know some French is even higher, at 90 percent. In addition to being the language of everyday life in most regions of Québe

and if you can prove me wrong about the difference between quebec's system and albertas system, feel free to do so

What have you proven? That an unknown number of french students had to take a grade below the regular english class?

Ontario just changed their system of education to the same as albertas, alberta had that system a long time ago, i know cause i was the first grade to ever be implimented in that new system in ontario then i moved to alberta

Ontario and Alberta school systems are different. It says right on McGill's website when applying by application type: Quebec CEGEP Applicants, Ontario High School Applicants, Applicants from Canadian High Schools other than Ontario. Now, if they were the same, why are they considered different by post-secondary institutes?

Sorry Dagenais but you can't base the whole education system on a single school and some people's opinions

At least I got the chance to attend a B.C. school, as opposed to I_Wish_I_Was_Smart, who's opinions are based on "x" number of students from Quebec that attended his school, which he neglected to mention whether they were from French or English school and which subjects they were held back in.

The difference is I've had a chance at Quebec english school, B.C. school and for a short amount of time, a good American-style school. I'm assuming you did too, but the way you're opinions are written, it seems you've had similar experience, oui?

Our Universities are also some of the best in the nation.

Where are you getting your facts from? Or is that just an opinion?

The Maclean's University rankings just came out. Ontario has the best schools in the nation. For Medical/Doctoral Universities, U of T was ranked #1, Western Ontario #2, Queen's #5. Guelph and Waterloo take the Comprehensive category at 1 and 2.

UBC is ranked 4th in the Med/Doc category, while McGill is ranked at 2nd, and Top 25 in the World. So I guess, Quebec wins - according to the facts.

I'll gladly continue this with you through PM as this thread is straying on its original topic.

Source (http://www.macleans.ca)

Source (http://www.mcgill.ca)

Source (http://www.meq.gouv.qc.ca/)

Source (http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/toptencities/)

Source (http://www.conservative.ca/)

ShawnD

Nov10-04, 12:05 AM

You would think that would happen as they probably speak french as opposed to english. Keep in mind that french is the 1st language of 80% of Quebecois. If you have trouble at english and you attend school in Alberta, it's only natural that they would be held-back.
That's not a valid excuse. The main cities in Alberta have schools where French is the main language. They're called "french immersion" schools. There's even a school a few miles south of my house where Cree is the main language. :wink:
Students who only speak French are still able to get highschool diplomas in Alberta since the language requirement is either English 30/33 or Francais 30/33.

PS.
I voted for that Harper guy :biggrin:

Ivan Seeking

Nov10-04, 12:19 AM

Dagenais, Shawn D, Smurf, and any other Canadians who have an opinion, how do you feel about Harper as compared to Bush? How would you compare and contrast the two?

Also, I find the discussion of schools interesting.

ShawnD

Nov10-04, 12:52 AM

Harper is just a conservative. Bush repeatedly says a dictatorship would be easier, and he seems to think he's doing God's work.

They're not really similar :biggrin:

Ivan Seeking

Nov10-04, 12:59 AM

If anyone cares to indulge me any more, I have reviewed your Constitution. How do you feel about it?

What is more important: Liberty or safety?

Gokul43201

Nov10-04, 01:17 AM

Asking for a Canadian's opinion of Bush wouldn't be wise.

You have to be here, and have to be aware, to know what this administration has done to undermine democracy here. A Canadian will not feel outrage from hearing about (if at all) having to sign a pledge of allegiance to attend a political event. A Canadian will not be able to give you feedback on the effects of having media giants control the airwaves. They won't feel the outrage you do, of running the country on trickle down economics. They probably would not be aware of the gross over-reaches of the Patriot Act, nor might they have heard of specific incidents of such abuse.

In other words, ask them for popular opinion on issues...but you are only fooling yourself if you ask for their opinion of Bush. We all know what that opinion is.

Ivan Seeking

Nov10-04, 01:50 AM

Hmmm. I can see your point.

Also, Canadians, please explain this:
The Queen reigns but does not rule.

Edit: I see how it applies in the Constitution but how do you feel about it?

Ivan Seeking

Nov10-04, 02:14 AM

Let me restate that: I have read how it applies to the Constitution but it is very confusing.

Nov10-04, 02:30 AM

The Queen is a figure head.

She's on most of our money, "reigns" over Canada, but has zero power. Even her representative in Canada, the Governor General, basically has no power. Officially (s)he is allowed to deny acts/bills/laws etc, but they never do. The last GG to deny passage of a bill/act/law was during WW2, if my memory serves me correct. And then the Prime Minister had him fired or something.

So basically all the Governor General does is approve things in the name of the Queen. But he really has no choice whether to approve things or not, so basically the whole system is just ornamental. Everything's just convention, and it's not going to change.

Sometimes politicians bring up breaking ties with the Mother Country and Monarch, but it never has happened and it probably never will. Having a Monarch is something that separates us from Americans, and we like it that way.

Nov10-04, 02:35 AM

Let me restate that: I have read how it applies to the Constitution but it is very confusing.

I don't think we have a "Constitution" like the US, unless I am sorely mistaken.

I know there was the BNA Act, which was later renamed the Constitution Act, but I'm pretty sure the document you refer to is the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Ivan Seeking

Nov10-04, 02:38 AM

What does the Mother Country and Monarch mean to Canadians? What is the meaning of this; what creates this loyalty? Is this purely cultural or does this somehow define Canadian values?

Ivan Seeking

Nov10-04, 02:46 AM

I don't think we have a "Constitution" like the US, unless I am sorely mistaken.

I know there was the BNA Act, which was later renamed the Constitution Act, but I'm pretty sure the document you refer to is the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

It may be the way that I'm saying it. I do see references to the Constitutional Documents, and other similar language used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_constitution

http://www.uni.ca/what_is_const.html

Nov10-04, 03:30 AM

Since 1982 the Charter has become the most often cited portion of the Constitution. The predecessor acts and orders that are listed below are generally not as well known. These acts have sometimes been denounced as "messy," "almost incoherent" or worse for their somewhat convoluted form and long, unconsolidated history. However, they remain the laws that determine the division of powers between federal and provincial jurisdictions, the terms upon which new provinces entered Canada and the division between executive, legislative and judicial areas of power in a manner very different from the United States.

This paragraph describes well why the Charter is the big thing.

-----

I can't really speak for all Canadians about the Queen, and I really do not know why we are "loyal"to Britain. In my case, I guess it's just because I was raised that way. It's just so intertwined with society, you just don't think twice about it. The Queen is on our money, her photo is in our schools and some homes, and many things are named after her or other monarchs. She's just "there". I'm sorry I don't have a good explanation, perhaps another Canadian can expound their thoughts a little more eloquently.

tumor

Nov10-04, 08:06 AM

. The Queen is on our money, her photo is in our schools and some homes, and many things are named after her or other monarchs..

Photographs of Queen in our homes? :surprised where did you see that?
Even when I lived under communism, nobody keept Lenin's or Stalin's pictures in their homes,and one could hardly see their pictures at school.
Looks to me like Canada is more brainwashed then I thought.

ShawnD

Nov10-04, 11:33 AM

If anyone cares to indulge me any more, I have reviewed your Constitution. How do you feel about it?

What is more important: Liberty or safety?
Most Canadians, including myself, don't even know what the constitution says. It's never explained in school.

The last GG to deny passage of a bill/act/law was during WW2, if my memory serves me correct. And then the Prime Minister had him fired or something.
I think it resulted in a non-confidence vote and an election had to be called.

Looks to me like Canada is more brainwashed then I thought.
Yep.

Gonzolo

Nov10-04, 11:42 AM

What is more important: Liberty or safety?

Safety is important, but Canadians don't have to worry about it as much, as they have few enemies, and crime rates are much lower than in the US.

check

Nov10-04, 01:05 PM

The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is a beautiful document and I’m surprised it took until 1982 for it to be put into place.
In school, it is only vaguely mentioned in any of the required classes. It is however studied in high school law classes quite a bit. Basically, there are certain sections in the Charter that have precedence over anything else including established law. But these are intended to protect basic freedoms, similar to your constitution. It’s a great thing, you should read it sometime.

As for Harper Vs. Bush. Harper is just a conservative with some bad ideas. The Conservative Party of Canada is not nearly as far right as the current Republican state in America, but it’s conservative nonetheless. Anyway, Harper isn’t ideological like Bush. I’m sure if Harper ever gets elected it won’t be nearly as bad for Canada as Bush is for America in terms of international reputation and trying to get crazy laws passed. Still, Harper doesn’t come off as very likable, and he just isn’t a good campaigner. But government in Canada is much different than in the US so Harper still gets a say whether he’s PM of not. I think there’s much more bickering in the Canadian government, but it’s about issues and not character attacks. Plus, we don’t have a two party system like in the states. There are currently four political parties represented in Parliament and with a minority government like we have now, there’s really a lot of restriction on what the Prime Minister and party in power can do.

And to answer your question about how Canadians view Bush, I’d like to quote a letter to the editor that I read in my school paper today:

“To the Editor:
After donning a festive pro-Bush button – straight from glorious and Democratic NYC – I’ve been baffled by the reaction on campus. Stares, snide remarks and worst of all, personal insults have all contributed to the melange of mostly negative feedback.”

So yeah, that’s how it is. I think I read several polls that consistently showed that in Canada about 60% favoured Kerry, 30% Bush and the rest neither or Nader.

Nov10-04, 02:28 PM

Photographs of Queen in our homes? :surprised where did you see that?
Even when I lived under communism, nobody keept Lenin's or Stalin's pictures in their homes,and one could hardly see their pictures at school.
Looks to me like Canada is more brainwashed then I thought.

Does it surprise you that no one kept pictures of tyrannical dictators like those two?

My old elementary school had about four framed photos of the Queen around the school. Above a doorway in the main hallway, in the Auditorium, outside the office and in another classroom.

JasonRox

Nov10-04, 03:09 PM

Tips if planning to move to Toronto

- Don't read the Toronto Sun. The most bias flyer there is. You'll understand why its called a flyer once you SEE it, without READING it.

- Never say hockey sucks. You will get kicked out of Canada even if you are Canadian.

- Always watch more hockey than other sports or else people will get suspicious and you will get kicked out ...

- Always talk more about hockey than anything else or else people will get suspicious ...

- Always brag about Canada's hockey Gold medals or else people will get suspicious ...

- Never say the Toronto Maple Leafs suck or else you will wake up in Vancouver after x time.

- Start your day by saying "I love hockey." or else your girlfriend next to you in bed will get suspicious and you will get kicked out ...

- If the Toronto Maple Leafs win against the Ottawa Senators, be sure to talk about it for the next week or else people will get suspicious ...

- If the Toronto Maple Leafs lose against the Ottawa Senators, be sure to whine about if for the next week or else ...

- Never say A-MEN in church. It has been replaced by HOC-KEY.

- Never say you live in Toronto, when you are in Toronto because that is considered false in Toronto. Hockey City is the proper word to use for Toronto.

Last note ...

- If you haven't played hockey in your childhood, you will be required to start high school all over again because playing hockey during your childhood is mandatory to be part of Hockey City.

For those who like big words:

- If the word hasn't been used during a hockey game, it does not exist.

Welcome, to Toron... um... Hockey City!

Nov10-04, 03:32 PM

....

And in related news, the Toronto Maple Losers are brutal!

:tongue2:

JasonRox

Nov10-04, 04:23 PM

And in related news, the Toronto Maple Losers are brutal!

:tongue2:

So... you don't live in Toronto, eh?

People seem to forget why people love the Toronto Maple Leafs up in the North. Ask a TRUE Leafs fan and they'll tell you.

Note: Most "Leaf" fans aren't Leaf fans. They seem to only jump out when they are winning or what not. Hate on them. :biggrin:

check

Nov10-04, 04:55 PM

Heh, I was just gonna say the same thing about Leaf fans. I guess Toronto's my favourite team cause they're the closest to my city geographicaly and because I happen to own a leafs jersey and towel. Anyway, I hope they actually win The Cup, but I have little faith in them. They always blow it in the end.

Hurkyl

Nov10-04, 05:08 PM

Hey, wait a minute, Detroit is Hockeytown. :frown:

(Oh, wait, Hockey City... I guess that's okay...)

Ivan Seeking

Nov10-04, 06:02 PM

So yeah, that’s how it is. I think I read several polls that consistently showed that in Canada about 60% favoured Kerry, 30% Bush and the rest neither or Nader.

Well, that's about 30% too much but Gokul's comments might explain this misguided group.

As of right now, I have always loved Canadian Hockey. :!!)

i_wish_i_was_smart

Nov10-04, 09:04 PM

Dagenais

the system is the same, i never said the courses were, in alberta in highschool there is no such thing i discrete math, but calculus in highschool in alberta is the same as calculus1 in university i know i'm living through it

and i did go to a fully french school, i think its the only fully french school in alberta it's called école Maurice-Lavallée i know thats where i studied(not french immersion they are totaly different), that school is where all the quebecers and french folks from edmonton and surounding towns go to get a fully french education, and most quebecers were held back, they have to pass an equivilancy test and most fail, thats just the way it is, like i said i know cause i've lived through it
the only major difference is that alberta has junior hiugh(7-9) and senior high(10-12), but all diciplines are seperated in 2 categories like ontario, its just the notation for it in Alberta is 10 20 30(university level) 13 23 33 (college level) and ontario is Théorique(university level) and appliqué(college level)( sorry for the french terminology)

http://www.csrcn.ab.ca/mauricelavallee/accueil.htm

JasonRox

Nov10-04, 09:25 PM

Hey, wait a minute, Detroit is Hockeytown.

:devil:

*drops the gloves*

i_wish_i_was_smart

Nov10-04, 10:02 PM

thats how it is Jason, its printed all over center ice, although i dont think its true at all

Dagenais

Nov10-04, 10:38 PM

What is more important: Liberty or safety?

Complete liberty would be Anarchism. Not many want that.

I think the liberty we are allowed in Canada is perfect. I can say I feel relatively safe. There are less gang-related crimes, but they still exist.

Also, Canadians, please explain this:
The Queen reigns but does not rule.

She finished touring Canada a couple of years ago. Last time she came to B.C., she watched a hockey came. The cost of her trip was outrageous enough to make the papers. I don't remember how much it cost, but it was an offensive amount.

As far as her influence in Quebec? We can't stand her and she knows that. I don't recall her even visiting Quebec in 2002 on her "Tour of Canada."

She probably realizes she's not welcomed there and we'd "boo" her. Quebec is too smart for a monarchy. You might want to read this news link. It's pretty interesting:

http://www.canada.com/national/features/royalvisit/story.html?id=5E8D9C01-72FE-4B1D-A2B2-41FDD4368FD2

There are currently four political parties represented in Parliament and with a minority government like we have now, there’s really a lot of restriction on what the Prime Minister and party in power can do.

At least the Democrats have a chance against the Republicans. The Liberals aren't losing a national election anytime soon.

I favour Kerry over Bush, but I don't think Georgie is that bad. Like Don Cherry or Harper, I'm more upset at Canada not backing the US in it's war against Iraq.

The United States is ready to back Canada's *** up when trouble occurs. Too bad we can't do the same.

Smurf

Nov10-04, 11:27 PM

fourier jr

Nov10-04, 11:47 PM

The United States is ready to back Canada's *** up when trouble occurs. Too bad we can't do the same.

w t f i thought you quebecers were the most antiwar province.... king didn't conscript anyone during WWII because quebec would have gone crazy, correct? maybe you're just a minority... :confused:

& i don't think the US would "help us" anytime soon, unless by that you mean install a US-friendly dictator. i'm more worried about our own politicians saying things like the following, than anything the US does to us:

"You must not take the Militia seriously, for though it is useful for suppressing internal differences, it will not be required for the defence of the country, as the Monroe Doctrine [proclaiming US military hegemony in the Americas] protects us against enemy aggression." - Wilfred Laurier

Smurf

Nov11-04, 12:26 AM

I favour Kerry over Bush, but I don't think Georgie is that bad
Ok, thinking bush is good and kerry bad I can understand,
thinking kerry is the lesser evil I can understand,
even thinking bush is the lesser evil I can understand.

But this blows my mind.

ShawnD

Nov11-04, 01:48 AM

What pisses me off is that with the merging of Alliance and Conservative parties, Canada is practically a 2 party system (Can you name other countries with 2 party systems?). I just don't see the difference between this and a 1 party system except its easier to fool people into thinking they have a choice.
It's better than what we had before. Before the parties merged, we had basically a 1 party system - liberal party. Now we have a 2 party system - liberal and conservative.

We didn't have a violent revoultion like America. Instead we fought the Germans for the English and in return they gave us independance. We gained control of our foreign affairs at the treaty of versailles negotiations, (canadian government set up apart from england's in 1863 or something).
I might be mistaken, but wasn't our independence part of the Statute of Westminster in 1931?
Canada became a country (dominion?) in 1867.

[about Bush not being bad]
Ok, thinking bush is good and kerry bad I can understand,
thinking kerry is the lesser evil I can understand,
even thinking bush is the lesser evil I can understand.

But this blows my mind.
Relative to past presidents, he's not that bad. He's not doing a hell of a lot to stop outsourcing, but it's not like he's the antichrist. Allow me to compare to hotshot Clinton. The following was taken from another forum

I'm trying to get all this political stuff straightened out in my head
so I'll know how to vote come November. Right now, we have one guy saying
one thing. Then the other guy says something else. Who to believe. Lemme
see; have I got this straight?

Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good...
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...

Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good...
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian terrorists- good...
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad...

Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good...
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad...

Clinton commits felonies while in office - good...
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad...

No mass graves found in Serbia - good...
No WMD found Iraq - bad...

Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good...
Economy on upswing under Bush - bad...

Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good...
World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad...

Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good...
Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad...

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good...
Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad...

Milosevic not yet convicted - good...
Saddam turned over for trial - bad...

Ahh, it's so confusing!

Then before him was Bush senior who didn't get re-elected because the economy sort of sucked under his watch.
Before that was Reagan I believe. I'm not quite sure if Bush beat the record, but Reagan spent more money than anybody in the history of the world.

Basically all presidents are crap. There is no good president.

Smurf

Nov11-04, 05:58 AM

ok, we became a country in 1960-something, i was only off by a century.

I can't compare it to what it was like before (cuz I didn't follow politics back then) but It still sucks, I like the idea of proportional representation - but that would give too much power to the people and allow direct action as oppoed to indirect representation, bad for big business, so we don't have it.

The thing about that post is it's slanted to support bush, allow me to revise it:

Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good...
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...

Cheney major stock holder in Halliburton, who was clinton's vice? If halliburton did as bad a job in yugo as they are doing in Iraq I'll give him this one.

Cinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good...
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...

1. The main argument is bush's reasons for going to Iraq, he misused information and lied to the world, went against the UN and now the US has already broken many articles in the geneva convention, and no one is being held responsible!! except for that one thing at abu ghrave or something prison where a few lowly officers got minor sentences.
2. Clinton was first president in like 7 consecutive presidents to leave office without a deficit, Bush went throught this and into deficit in his first term, and then achieved the largest deficit in American history.

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

don't know much about this but i'll take a shot:
Yugoslavia (http://www.ohr.int/ohr-info/maps/images/yugoslavia-1981.gif) vs Iraq (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/images/jan-june03/map_ethnic_iraq.gif)

Serbia was seen as an international threat to other states in the area, Kuwait didnt even consider Iraq a threat when Bush invaded.

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian terrorists- good...
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad...
I resent the use of religion in this statement, the serbs were murders no matter their faith and the Albanians (oppressed freedom fighters?)

Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good...
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad...I think he's mainly being criticized for bombing Red Cross bases and British Tanks.

Clinton commits felonies while in office - good...
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad...
*cough* this one is completely unparallelled

No mass graves found in Serbia - good...
No WMD found Iraq - bad...I don't know much about this but didn't you find mass graves in Serbia? I'm pretty sure this is flat out not true.

Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good...
Economy on upswing under Bush - bad...
See #2 but add 'Massive Outsourcing' to Bush.

Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good...
World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad...
America had the means of stopping WTC, when bush was warned by the CIA some time (several months i believe) before it he took no action and the air force was completely unprepared for WTC.
Bush incapable of taking Bin Laden into custody?

Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good...
Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad...
Clinton was wrong, realised it, didn't go to war.
Bush was wrong, didn't care, lied, went to war.

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...
See: Imposes vs Calls for.

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good...
Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad...
Bush moves training camps to Iraq [closer to infidels now] where there are 'no-go' zones and Terrorist Hot beds like Falluja. terrorist activity increases.

Milosevic not yet convicted - good...
Saddam turned over for trial - bad...
Discussed in another thread, Bush finally did something right.

Now I don't know much about Yugoslavia since it was before my time, so take my opinion about as seriously as you take the other one. And yes I agree all presidents are crap which is why this American experiment should end, its gone on long enough - we have enough data to confidently state that its not working.

russ_watters

Nov11-04, 06:47 AM

The following was taken from another forum Do you have a link to that? Its pretty good.

BobG

Nov11-04, 07:37 AM

Well, that's about 30% too much but Gokul's comments might explain this misguided group.

As of right now, I have always loved Canadian Hockey. :!!)
Just keep in mind that foreign outsourcing is an even bigger problem in Canada than the US:

Quebec Nordiques to Colorado :biggrin:
Minnesota North Stars to Dallas (using revised map, of course)
Winnipeg Jets to Pheonix (and they still can't win the Cup)

Ivan Seeking

Nov11-04, 08:36 AM

Just keep in mind that foreign outsourcing is an even bigger problem in Canada than the US:

Aside from the fact that compared to the US, in so many ways Canada seems to be going the right direction, I know quite a number of US companies exporting work there. In fact for the last ten years I have watched Canadian industry demand more and more attention here. Several of my customers have each had several large projects in Canada - new industrial manufacturing installations. I have also seen that Canadian industrial electrical standards have been absorbed by many manufacturers here. This is common when dealing with a future competitor.

Ivan Seeking

Nov11-04, 08:51 AM

Oh yes, as for Spain, Brunei, the UAE and the others, I appreciate your comments and they do each sound wonderful in their own way. Unfortunately it didn't take long to realize that we are not up to that much risk yet. BC is virtually in the neighborhood for us. We can still be relatively close to family and I might even maintain some of my customer base. From what I gather, Canada wants new businesses.

Ivan Seeking

Nov11-04, 09:05 AM

And yes I agree all presidents are crap which is why this American experiment should end, its gone on long enough - we have enough data to confidently state that its not working.

I think it still can but it will take a long time to correct itself; depending of course on the damage done to the Constitution. However, since hardly anyone seems to care about the Constitution my hopes are quickly diminishing. At the least, I don't see this being a place that I care to live for a couple of decades or more.

The people have failed, not the system.

Ivan Seeking

Nov11-04, 09:29 AM

Back on topic

What is the price of milk, gas, coffee, a dinner at a decent restaurant, and a good steak from the grocery store?

What do you consider to be a high, moderate, and cheap price for a home?

How much of your income goes to taxes?

Gonzolo

Nov11-04, 11:27 AM

fourier jr

Nov11-04, 12:31 PM

milk is more expensive here because of our supply-management system in agriculture. i don't really have a problem with it because it's besically an embargo on stuff from other countries & it protects the family farm. it must be good for us if every other country in the wto wants us to get rid of the system. too bad ralph goodale caved to pressure to change the quotas to tariffs, because with the nafta we can't increase tariffs, only decrease them. eventually we'll see the us corporations take over all our dairy & poultry if we don't get a strong government in ottawa.

ShawnD

Nov11-04, 02:52 PM

ok, we became a country in 1960-something, i was only off by a century.
I made a typo; It was 1867.
I'm not trying to be a dick. I just want the world to know a little more about Canada :smile:

The link to that forum is here
http://www.techimo.com/forum/t123077.html

Cheney major stock holder in Halliburton, who was clinton's vice? If halliburton did as bad a job in yugo as they are doing in Iraq I'll give him this one.
Cheney being a big stock holder isn't the point. The point is that both administrations wanted quick results (bidding can take weeks), but only one administration got bad pres over it.

The main argument is bush's reasons for going to Iraq, he misused information and lied to the world, went against the UN and now the US has already broken many articles in the geneva convention, and no one is being held responsible!! except for that one thing at abu ghrave or something prison where a few lowly officers got minor sentences.
I'm not too sure he lied to the world. He used information that the CIA discovered during Clinton's reign.
He had to go against the UN if he wanted results because Iraq had France (a country with veto power) in its pocket.
About the Geneva convention, which articles were broken exactly? That prison scandal was one thing that was managed very poorly, but what else has gone against the convention?

Clinton was first president in like 7 consecutive presidents to leave office without a deficit, Bush went throught this and into deficit in his first term, and then achieved the largest deficit in American history.
As for Clinton being the first in 7 to leave without a deficit, it depends on how you see it. If you compare the debt with the GDP (http://zfacts.com/p/318.html), you'll see that Clinton isn't really a first over any extended period. He certainly did do a good job of the budget; there's just no disputing that.
Bush's deficit isn't entirely his fault. The war spending is definitely his fault, but the bear market was inherited from Clinton, and a bum economy always follows a bear market.

*cough* this one is completely unparallelled
The point is that Bush is getting criticized for absolutely everything he does, but Clinton is still infallible. Whenever something goes wrong, people are immediately blaming Bush.

I don't know much about this but didn't you find mass graves in Serbia? I'm pretty sure this is flat out not true.
I believe they did; I think it's why Milosevic is on trial.

See #2 but add 'Massive Outsourcing' to Bush.
No arguments here. Bush really is screwing that one up.

America had the means of stopping WTC, when bush was warned by the CIA some time (several months i believe) before it he took no action and the air force was completely unprepared for WTC.
Bush incapable of taking Bin Laden into custody?
The main point was that Sudan actually offered to give Bin Laden to the US, but Clinton's administration didn't want Bin Laden. They could have had him right then and there, but they didn't take him. Bush basically inherited another one of Clinton's screw ups, and now it's suddenly Bush's fault that Bin Laden is still on the run.

Clinton was wrong, realised it, didn't go to war.
Bush was wrong, didn't care, lied, went to war.
Clinton actually supports the war. CNN link (http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/)

What is the price of milk, gas, coffee, a dinner at a decent restaurant, and a good steak from the grocery store?

What do you consider to be a high, moderate, and cheap price for a home?

How much of your income goes to taxes?
milk: $5 for 4L.

gas: $0.80 per litre in Edmonton

coffee: $1 from vending machines, a little more than $1 at dohnut shops, and up to $4 at coffee shops like Second Cup and Starbucks.

Prices at restaurants are about the same when you factor in the exchange rate. For example, a $0.99 burger in the US will cost $1.29 or $1.39 around here.

steak: T-bone steak is about $6 per pound.

homes: You can probably get a used house in Edmonton for about 100k-150k. A nice new one will cost about 200k. Houses near the river cost a hell of a lot more.

Taxes:

Highest tax bracket starts at something like 60k, and you pay around 29% on a federal level. Alberta has a flat rate income tax that doesn't change depending on how much money you make. In 2001, the flat tax in Alberta was 11%; I'm not sure what it is right now. I have no idea how Edmonton's taxes work.

Split between federal and provincial income taxes, 40% of your money is gone right off the top. After that you add in all the other BS stuff like UI, union dues, etc. Basically you can expect 50% of your money to be taken from you before you even get a chance to spend it.

After income taxes there are the sales taxes. Canada has a 7% national sales tax called GST. Alberta and the 3 territories have no provincial taxes. The provincial sales taxes get insanely high as you head farther east peaking at 15% in New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland. So sum it all up, Alberta and the territories have the lowest sales taxes at 7%. NB, NS, and Newfoundland have the highest sales taxes at 22%.
Provincial Sales Taxes (http://www.taxtips.ca/provincial_sales_tax.htm)

Nov11-04, 03:02 PM

milk: $5 for 4L.

gas: $0.80 per litre in Edmonton

coffee: $1 from vending machines, a little more than $1 at dohnut shops, and up to $4 at coffee shops like Second Cup and Starbucks.

Prices at restaurants are about the same when you factor in the exchange rate. For example, a $0.99 burger in the US will cost $1.29 or $1.39 around here.

steak: T-bone steak is about $6 per pound.

homes: You can probably get a used house in Edmonton for about 100k-150k. A nice new one will cost about 200k. Houses near the river cost a hell of a lot more.

If you plan on moving to British Columbia, looking at prices in Alberta is going to be totally misleading. Home and gas prices as well as taxes are totally different.

Gas: .90-1.00/L
Tax: 7% PST and obviously 7% GST; Income tax is high, that's all I know.
Homes: Vancouver/Victoria is NOT Edmonton. Similar homes will probably cost you double here. Average home price in Victoria is around 350,000. Similar for Vancouver I think. Average price in my municipality is about 500,000.

i_wish_i_was_smart

Nov11-04, 03:03 PM

All in Cdn$

Milk : 5$ for 4 liters

Gas : 0,9-0,95 $ /liter

Coffee : 1-1,50$/cup at the Donut shop.

Dinner : Ponderosa : 10-15$/complete meal, Pizza Shack : Probably about 20$ for the most expensive pizza (Largest with all ingredients). McDonald : 6$ for a Big Mac combo. Everyone has his definition of "Decent", for foreign specialty restaurants, you can easily find 15-25$ / meal.

T-Bone steak at grocery : 8-15$ (15$ for 1-inch thick)

Income tax and sales tax depends on what province you're in.
where did you gt this data, since no one can say for sure what the prices are in BC unless you are from there, prices are different all over, especialy gas, which the highest i've seen was 94cents a liter, but everywhere else was under 90cents a liter, but i dont know about BC

i_wish_i_was_smart

Nov11-04, 03:11 PM

If you plan on moving to British Columbia, looking at prices in Alberta is going to be totally misleading. Home and gas prices as well as taxes are totally different.

Gas: .90-1.00/L
Tax: 7% PST and obviously 7% GST; Income tax is high, that's all I know.
Homes: Vancouver/Victoria is NOT Edmonton. Similar homes will probably cost you double here. Average home price in Victoria is around 350,000. Similar for Vancouver I think. Average price in my municipality is about 500,000.
thats what i was trying to saw, every city has a different living cost, property and house prices are different in different municipalities, you will never know for sure unless you go there Yvan

Gonzolo

Nov11-04, 03:12 PM

NB, NS, and Newfoundland have the highest sales taxes at 22%.
Provincial Sales Taxes (http://www.taxtips.ca/provincial_sales_tax.htm)

Correction : NB, NS, and Newfoundland have a flat, total sales tax of 15%, which includes the GST (not 15% + 7%), which is near average for the country

Ontario, Quebec, BC, Manitoba, PEI, and Saskatchewan have 7% GST + (7 to 10)%. So, in effect, PEI has the most sales tax (7 + 10), while the other eastern provinces are about on par with Ontario.

Gonzolo

Nov11-04, 03:23 PM

where did you gt this data, since no one can say for sure what the prices are in BC unless you are from there, prices are different all over, especialy gas, which the highest i've seen was 94cents a liter, but everywhere else was under 90cents a liter, but i dont know about BC

The data is mostly from what I have seen in Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes. 94 cents max for regular gas maybe, but I've seen higher (up to 99 cents a few months ago) for higher grades. The last I've seen was probably 88 cents for regular.

JasonRox

Nov11-04, 04:04 PM

I don't even look at the gas price.

I just fill up and pay up.

Ivan Seeking

Nov11-04, 09:54 PM

btw, we were very impressed when we saw the selection of restaurants in Vancouver -there is anything a person could want! Portland is a real hot spot for culinary delights; in fact we even have a good little Mexican R in our local town. I was most worried about losing access to good Mexican food. :frown:

Smurf

Nov11-04, 10:29 PM

Ah yes the infamous Restaurant blocks of vancouver. My favourite part :smile:

(chinese is my personal favourite - mexican is too spicey for me)

Ivan Seeking

Nov13-04, 01:56 AM

Okay, this is looking really good. This seems to be a real growth economy.
http://www.cse.gov.bc.ca/ProgramsAndServices/bcbusinessclimate/Default.htm

revelator

Nov13-04, 03:02 AM

Also, Canadians, please explain this:
The Queen reigns but does not rule.

Her power here is symbolic, we keep her as a figurehead out of tradition. There are many Canadians who are opposed to this. She has a
representative here called the Govenor General, Adrienne Clarkson. The GG is not very much liked, as she is known for spending outrageous amounts
of taxpayer's money, even on personal trips.

What is the price of milk, gas, coffee, a dinner at a decent restaurant, and a good steak from the grocery store?

What do you consider to be a high, moderate, and cheap price for a home?

How much of your income goes to taxes?

I can't tell you about milk, I don't touch the stuff. Gas is friggin expensive, between 75-80c/litre where I live (suburb outside of Toronto), but
still not as expensive as in more rural areas (ironically where fuel consumption is harder to avoid). An extra large cup of coffee at Tim Horton's
runs me $1.55. $15-25 for a dinner at a decent restaurant. Steaks I have no clue, as I am young and broke :D.

I have not yet looked into trying to buy a home, I still rent. But I know my mother's condominium has a market value of $170,000 some odd dollars.
In the condominium where I look after security, the condos average about $400,000 and the most expensive is worth over $1 million. This however is
an upscale building. I believe a reasonalby sized house can be done f0r $250,000-$300,000, but I'm not certain. Remember, this is in Mississauga,
just 20 minutes outside of Toronto.

We are taxed heavily. About 10% of my cheque is automatically taxed for me. There are also income taxes at the end of the year, until recently I
used to get money back. Not anymore. Every time you purchase goods or services, you get taxed again. One federal tax, one provincial. In Ontario
it comes to 15% on every dollar. This wouldn't be so bad, if the government didn't waste and steal so much of it (ie, Sponsorship Scandal, Gun
Registry).

Okay, this is looking really good. This seems to be a real growth economy.

I believe are economy is doing quite well right now. Our dollar is doing well also.

revelator

Nov13-04, 03:04 AM

I don't much care for Stephen Harper. Originally he had been all for joining the War in Iraq, but when election time came he changed his stance,
to be more inline with public opinion. He was for signing on to the Missile Defense Shield, but now is hesitant as it politically advantagous
to bring opposition to Paul Martin's minority government (not that I am for signing on to missile defense). He and his party have a conservative
stance on social issues, I don't agree with that either.

Keep in mind that our liberal party is not so great either. They are plagued with scandals, and in my opinion are also unacceptable, but better
than the conservatives. We have the NDP, Bloc Quebecois, Green Party, Marijuana Party, and others. But they don't usully get very many votes.

I recall reading in Time Magazine Canada a poll, that placed Canadian support for Bush at between 15% and 20%.

What is more important: Liberty of Safety

Both are very important. But liberty is more important.
"Those who whould give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Ben Franklin, 1755

If anyone cares to indulge me any more, I have reviewed your Constitution. How do you feel about it?
Truly sorry, but I really don't know very much about the constitution, I don't think very many other Canadians do either.

BTW, sorry bout the terrible formatting. I was typing into Notepad as I went through the thread.

Smurf

Nov13-04, 03:08 AM

Remember, Canadian Dollars.

Nov13-04, 04:36 AM

Remember, Canadian Dollars.

Canadian dollar is pretty damn good right now. Around 83.5.

Smurf

Nov13-04, 04:54 AM

Hense my need to mention it

JasonRox

Nov13-04, 10:10 AM

The US was mainly free of terrorist attacks until the early ~90's.

What happen there?

Note: You should know.

check

Nov13-04, 01:30 PM

Canadian dollar is pretty damn good right now. Around 83.5.

It's not so much that the Canadian dollar is good, but rather that the US dollar sucks right now.

Dagenais

Nov13-04, 02:43 PM

x
Quebec Nordiques to Colorado
Minnesota North Stars to Dallas (using revised map, of course)
Winnipeg Jets to Pheonix (and they still can't win the Cup)

Vancouver Grizzlies to Memphis.
Montreal Expos to D.C.

Sports analysts predict more to come (Blue Jays, even Raptors).

What do you consider to be a high, moderate, and cheap price for a home?

A decent home? Define "decent." If you've been living affluently your whole life, decent is in a whole different category than someone who came out of inner city US.

Houses in British Columbia are high (mentioned many times already). A large majority of the very large houses or custom built ones are owned by Chinese or East Indian immigrants.

This link should be very helpful:

Check: here (http://www.realestate.com)

BTW, you're from Portland Ivan? Big sarcastic thanks for helping the MLB in its effort to take our baseball team. Merci de rien!

Nov13-04, 02:47 PM

Houses in British Columbia are high (mentioned many times already). A large majority of the very large houses or custom built ones are owned by Chinese or East Indian immigrants.

If they are custom built, why do they all look identical?

Tsu

Nov13-04, 03:21 PM

BTW, you're from Portland Ivan? Big sarcastic thanks for helping the MLB in its effort to take our baseball team. Merci de rien!
Thanks for the link. :biggrin: I've been looking there and at other sites, too.

Ivan and I lived in Portland for a few years, but most of our time in Oregon has been in the Willamette Valley. I also lived in Portland many years ago and most of my family is/was in Portland. So - a big sarcastic 'you're welcome' from a bigger Portlander than Ivan. :biggrin: :biggrin: Although I have to admit that, being really no kind of sports fan at all - well, I am sort of a half-baked cheesehead having lived and gone to school in Green Bay -(oh, yeah. and except for HOC-KEY!! :rofl:), it wasn't ANY of my doing in trying to take your team. Honest!! (HOC-KEY!!! :biggrin:)

<hmmmmm... Half-Baked Cheesehead... I believe I might be able to concoct a pretty good recipe with that name... :surprised :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Ivan Seeking

Nov13-04, 06:09 PM

Both are very important. But liberty is more important.
"Those who whould give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Ben Franklin, 1755

Now you're talking! :approve: :approve: :approve:

JasonRox

Nov13-04, 09:55 PM

Vancouver Grizzlies to Memphis.
Montreal Expos to D.C.

Sports analysts predict more to come (Blue Jays, even Raptors).

A decent home? Define "decent." If you've been living affluently your whole life, decent is in a whole different category than someone who came out of inner city US.

Houses in British Columbia are high (mentioned many times already). A large majority of the very large houses or custom built ones are owned by Chinese or East Indian immigrants.

This link should be very helpful:

Check: here (http://www.realestate.com)

BTW, you're from Portland Ivan? Big sarcastic thanks for helping the MLB in its effort to take our baseball team. Merci de rien!

Has nothing to do with winning the cup.

imabug

Nov14-04, 08:47 AM

Also, Canadians, please explain this:
The Queen reigns but does not rule.

The queen reigns because Canada is part of the Commonwealth, and the queen is the (symbolic) head of the Commonwealth nations. If you go to any Commonwealth country, you will probably find that the queen as some significant presence there also. As others have pointed out, it's a symbolic position only now and she has no governance powers aside from a rubber stamp in the form of the Governor General.

And you will probably find there are just as many Canadians in favour of keeping the monarchy figurehead as there are opposed to it. It's a tradition thing.

Smurf

Nov14-04, 05:41 PM

A great American once said "Give me Liberty or give me Death!"

A great Canadian once said "Give me Liberty or... is there any more beer?"

Ivan Seeking

Nov14-04, 06:30 PM

What if the liberties taken away are your beer...and hockey? :biggrin:

Smurf

Nov14-04, 06:40 PM

Blood would be running in the streets.

Ivan Seeking

Nov14-04, 07:38 PM

Blood would be running in the streets. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

JasonRox

Nov14-04, 10:24 PM

I'd sacrifice liberty for hockey and beer!

"Those who choose to not enjoy hockey and beer and settles for liberty shall never be granted hockey or beer." Ben Franklin 1755 (When he visited Ottawa.)

tumor

Nov14-04, 10:36 PM

I think hockey is a group of sports watched by morons and simpletons.Hockey is good for children to watch though.
Thank God for NHL lock out. :smile:

Smurf

Nov14-04, 10:44 PM

I think hockey is a group of sports watched by morons and simpletons.Hockey is good for children to watch though.
Thank God for NHL lock out. :smile:

Blasphemous Heretic!! Thou Shalt Be Destroyed by My Mighty Hockey Stick!!!

cepheid

Nov14-04, 10:57 PM

Didn't read the whole thread...just some notes:

I'm in Vancouver right now...gas price fluctuates between 69.9 cents per litre and 91.4 cents per litre within the span of one day! (price war, I guess). There are intermediate prices as well...it's just totally weird.

Somebody mentioned that he thought Canada 'gained' independence "in 1863 or something', and there was a later correction that is was actually 1960!!! What!?!

How can you be Canadian and not know that Confederation was on July 1st, 1867? What do you think Canada day is celebrating? That's our equivalent to the "4th of July" man! If you people don't know anything about Canadian history, then please do not try to educate Americans about it. Not all provinces joined confederation immediately, (my home province, Alberta, joined in 1905), but for all intents and purposes, that's when Canada came into being, and was no longer a British colony. That's when the first version of the constitution..."the British-North America Act", was made. It has been revised numerous times, admittedly, well into the 20th century. I believe that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in its present form dates back a few decades at most.

Another claim was made that Canada 'gained independence' in exchange for helping fight against Germany in WWI! Umm...notice that this was 47 years after Confederation. It's true that at the time, Canada still had VERY close ties with Great Britain. When Britain declared war, Canada felt that it was at war by default..."an attack on the mother country is an attack on us" was the mentality at the time. Since our troops performed with distinction, the first world war marked the first time that Canada came to be *viewed* as a distinct nation with something to offer. HOWEVER, Canada "coming into its own" is not the same thing as Canada first becoming a unified nation.

This thread seems to have an inordinate amount of perpetuation of Canadian stereotypes, and a lot of needless belittling of Americans. Do we really need to showcase our whopping inferiority complex for all to see? I can't stand the Bush administration, but I have nothing against America itself, neither it's people (who are great) nor the principles on which it was founded...which ought to be remphasized in this era...lest they be overshadowed by Bush's reign of fear. And if you don't agree with me on that last point, fine. Who was it who said..."I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it!". I think that sentiment resonates with Canadians and Americans alike.

Smurf

Nov14-04, 11:05 PM

Cepheid does not represent me.

(while I may not know when the Confederation was founded I can tell you anything you wanna know about Canadian Military history. Oh and after WW1 we gained control of our Foreign Relations and Policy. As did Australia.)

cepheid

Nov14-04, 11:26 PM

tumor

Nov14-04, 11:56 PM

Blasphemous Heretic!! Thou Shalt Be Destroyed by My Mighty Hockey Stick!!!

Try me :grumpy:
Hockey sucks He He He He, big time! :wink:

revelator

Nov15-04, 12:05 AM

This thread seems to have an inordinate amount of perpetuation of Canadian stereotypes,

If you're referring to all the HOC-KEY comments then I don't think it's necessarily perpetuating a stereotype. It's been my experience as a Canadian, that a very large number of Canadians are fanatical about HOC-KEY. Hell, even the majority of my friends who weren't born here have grown to become fanatical about HOC-KEY. I think it's something in the water....

tumor

Nov15-04, 12:33 AM

It is matter of weeks before first signs of Hockey withdrawall will show up in generall population.(beatings,riots, etc,)
Even when NHL is playing I'm sometimes scared to go outside,imagine no hockey for a whole of winter. :bugeye:

revelator

Nov15-04, 12:37 AM

This is straying even further off topic but.. considering the new smoking ban in bars, and the lack of a hockey season. I wonder how terrible of an effect this is gonna have on sports bars in Toronto and the GTA.

cepheid

Nov15-04, 12:41 AM

If you're referring to all the HOC-KEY comments then I don't think it's necessarily perpetuating a stereotype. It's been my experience as a Canadian, that a very large number of Canadians are fanatical about HOC-KEY. Hell, even the majority of my friends who weren't born here have grown to become fanatical about HOC-KEY. I think it's something in the water....

Dude...I AM Canadian...and the hockey stuff was just in good fun, but it doesn't make you look very intelligent if you say that you'd trade in your freedom for beer...and other stereotypes I was referring to was the incredible display of unity we Canadians put on in this thread...the Quebec guy insults the BC school system and implies that all Albertans are rednecks, and that they must all agree with Republican views by default (nooooo thank you) Next thing he knows, he's being faced with some anti-french statements and being told that no, actually, it's the Quebec students who are dumb...sheesh! Then there's the Toronto guy who seems bent on proving our superiority to Americans in every possible way, thus perpetuating the embarassing fact that a large part of our national pride stems from the fact that we are *not* like Americans...we don't have enough of a national identity to state what we are, but only what we are not? You see what I meant now...we were perpetuating all of the stererotypes about each other. I just think we didn't come across as very intelligent refined, or enlightened, despite our claims to the contrary.

tumor

Nov15-04, 12:52 AM

revelator

Nov15-04, 01:31 AM

Dude...I AM Canadian...and the hockey stuff was just in good fun, but it doesn't make you look very intelligent if you say that you'd trade in your freedom for beer...and other stereotypes I was referring to was the incredible display of unity we Canadians put on in this thread...the Quebec guy insults the BC school system and implies that all Albertans are rednecks, and that they must all agree with Republican views by default (nooooo thank you) Next thing he knows, he's being faced with some anti-french statements and being told that no, actually, it's the Quebec students who are dumb...sheesh! Then there's the Toronto guy who seems bent on proving our superiority to Americans in every possible way, thus perpetuating the embarassing fact that a large part of our national pride stems from the fact that we are *not* like Americans...we don't have enough of a national identity to state what we are, but only what we are not? You see what I meant now...we were perpetuating all of the stererotypes about each other. I just think we didn't come across as very intelligent refined, or enlightened, despite our claims to the contrary.

Sorry dude, never meant to imply your not Canadian! When you mentioned stereotypes, the hockey one was the only one that came to mind, and I responded with that mind.

Still there's a difference between insulting a school system and criticizing. Also, I don't recall anyone saying that all Albertans are rednecks and must support republican policy, although I have said in another thread that support for Bush runs highest in Alberta. Neither do I remember reading anything anti-French, just criticism of their system.

Then there's the Toronto guy who seems bent on proving our superiority to Americans in every possible way

Which guy? How?

tumor

Nov15-04, 02:08 AM

I don't recall anyone saying that all Albertans are rednecks and must support republican policy, although I have said in another thread that support for Bush runs highest in Alberta.

You know what was beautiful? when USA stoped importing Canadian beef.
Alberta's farmers those same pro war rednecks and biggest Bush supporters got screwed really good by their best friend.Since then I started believing in Karma Man!

revelator

Nov15-04, 02:15 AM

and implies that all Albertans are rednecks
I don't recall anyone saying that all Albertans are rednecks
Alberta's farmers those same pro war rednecks

D'oh! [slaps self in head]

Serious though, I do hope the beef and softwood lumber disputes can be resolved soon.

tumor

Nov15-04, 02:26 AM

Remember what Ralph Klein(premier of Alberta) said about what farmers should do with cows who have BSE - "shot, shovel and shut up"! Brilliant! simply Brilliant! :rofl:

PS.And who said Canadians are boring?

Smurf

Nov15-04, 03:04 AM

Smurf...can you please elaborate on what you meant? I am vehemently against the war in Iraq, and the current Bush administration, and the new trend towards imperialism, and the new phenonmenon of the religious right imposing its doctrine on the populace, and trying to make discriminatory laws that impinge on people's rights. I am also against insulting people needlessly. Finally, I believe in free speech. That's what I was trying to get across in my post. So, if my views are not representative of yours at all, then I guess that means you are:

pro war
pro Bush
pro religious extremism
pro insulting Americans for no good reason
anti free speech.

:confused: Clearly NOT...we share the same views. I was simply advocating keeping an OPEN mind, so that we are not guilty of same arrogance that we accuse Americans of displaying...why are you speaking out against me?

I am:
Anti-Violence
Anti-Bush
Pro-Extremism
Anti-Religious
Pro-Direct Action
Anti-Indirect Action
Anti-Democracy
Anti-'Capitalism'
Pro-Free Market
Anti-Insulting Americans for no good reason
Pro-Good humour
Pro-Criticizing American Economics/Politics
Pro-Human Rights
And in the middle with the whole Freedom of Speech thing.

I think that covers everything.

I didn't think you reflected my views accuratly in your post, so I thought I'd mention that (especially the last paragraph - the one people always remember the most).

Smurf

Nov15-04, 03:09 AM

Dude...I AM Canadian...and the hockey stuff was just in good fun, but it doesn't make you look very intelligent if you say that you'd trade in your freedom for beer...and other stereotypes I was referring to was the incredible display of unity we Canadians put on in this thread...the Quebec guy insults the BC school system and implies that all Albertans are rednecks, and that they must all agree with Republican views by default (nooooo thank you) Next thing he knows, he's being faced with some anti-french statements and being told that no, actually, it's the Quebec students who are dumb...sheesh! Then there's the Toronto guy who seems bent on proving our superiority to Americans in every possible way, thus perpetuating the embarassing fact that a large part of our national pride stems from the fact that we are *not* like Americans...we don't have enough of a national identity to state what we are, but only what we are not? You see what I meant now...we were perpetuating all of the stererotypes about each other. I just think we didn't come across as very intelligent refined, or enlightened, despite our claims to the contrary.

I think you worry too much about your image. I don't think I have ever flat out insulted someone for no reason (and I'm very sorry if I have). If someone's gonna judge canadians by the way they talk on a forum then they can do that, I don't care if one more person thinks we are all dumbasses living in igloos, god knows theres plenty of them already.

cepheid

Nov15-04, 06:57 PM

^^^Smurf you make an excellent point there. Maybe its time I stopped derailing the thread further. However, I still do not understand what it is about my last paragraph that you so disagree with. Isn't that the one in which I gave that quote about defending people's rights to free speech? Or was it the part where I mentioned Bush's reign of fear? Oh well, whatever it was, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. :smile:

Edit...D'OH!!!...now I see it...It was probably the part about how I said Canadians have a "whopping inferiority complex". That was harsh...and is itself a stereotype. Indeed I have been overly critical about my fellow Canadians here...I hope there are no hard feelings guys. revelator..my comments were not directed right at you, or any specific "Toronto guy". I was just trying to convey my impressions, but I see now that I jumped to conclusions, mistaking honest discussion for disparaging remarks.

Whoever was planning on moving here...do you still want to after all of our antics? :wink: (juuuust kidding...chill)

Ivan Seeking

Nov15-04, 07:03 PM

Please continue. I couldn't ask for a better way to get some perspective.

wasteofo2

Nov15-04, 07:44 PM

I've got a question about Canada:

I hear lots of people talking about a "minority government" in Canada. What the hell is that about?

Nov15-04, 08:04 PM

I've got a question about Canada:

I hear lots of people talking about a "minority government" in Canada. What the hell is that about?

The Liberals, who are in power, have less than 50% of the MPs in the House.

More than 50% -> Majority Government.
Less than 50% -> Minority Government.

I don't know exactly how it impacts what goes on but it just means the Government is less powerful and can't do as much. Or it needs another party to form a coalition (easier said than done) to become a Government with Majority powers.

What exactly those Majority powers are I can't tell you.

wasteofo2

Nov15-04, 08:09 PM

Is there a party that has a greater % of MP's (I'm assuming this means Representative of some sort...) than the Liberals, or do the Liberals have the greatest %? Is it something like the Liberals have 45%, the Conservatives have 30%, the Mooses have 15% and the Beavers have 10%?

Do you guys have General Elections for a chief executive officer (like our President), or is he decided in some other manner (like voted on by representatives or something)?

check

Nov15-04, 08:29 PM

Waste,

Here’s some election results from the last election, in case you’re interested.
http://www.elections.ca/pas/38e/38official.pdf

Yes, as of right now the Liberals have the most seats, followed by the Conservative Party, the Bloc Quebecois and the NDP. However, the Liberal’s do not have a majority of the seats, so they cannot get things passed without support from other parties. This is called a minority gov't.

The country is divided into 301 electoral districts and the people (Members of Paliment) vote for which they want to represent their district in Parliament. The leader of the party with the greatest number of seats is Prime Minister. The PM is the head of government while the Queen is the head of state, but she really doesn’t matter.

wasteofo2

Nov15-04, 08:34 PM

So there's no Nation-wide election for a governmental leader?

Ya'll mofo's are a craaaaaaaaaazy bunch...

That'd be like having Bill Frist as our President, what a scary thought...

I can't imagine having the leader of my country being a guy who got elected by one small section of the country, and only has to convince a few dozen people to like him to get to the highest position of power. Plus, it seems like the only people who get to be the Prime Minister are people in the Parliment, right? Is there any way for local governors or anything to become PM? Also, what actual powers does the PM of Canada have?

check

Nov15-04, 09:12 PM

It’s not a silly system. In fact, it’s pretty similar to how your electoral college works except each electoral district is worth the same and there are 251 more of them.
As for not directly voting for the Prime Minister, it doesn’t bother me, nor does it bother most Canadians I think. Provincial "premiers" can become PM, but they'd have to switch to federal politics. I'm not sure how many premiers have been PMs. I don't think that many. But yeah, at the Provincial level, the government works almost the same as at the federal level. The Premier is the one who's party has the most seats in that province.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Prime-Minister-of-Canada here’s a good article about what a Canadian PM is and what he/she can and can’t do.

revelator

Nov15-04, 11:08 PM

Edit...D'OH!!!...now I see it...It was probably the part about how I said Canadians have a "whopping inferiority complex". That was harsh...and is itself a stereotype. Indeed I have been overly critical about my fellow Canadians here...I hope there are no hard feelings guys. revelator..my comments were not directed right at you, or any specific "Toronto guy". I was just trying to convey my impressions, but I see now that I jumped to conclusions, mistaking honest discussion for disparaging remarks

No worries dude!

This is a little off topic, but I recall reading about comments made by Paul Celucci regarding our decriminilization of marijuana. Apparently, if we keep on going in this direction, the US administration is going to need to have even more delays at the border, so that the young'ns won't be smuggling pot into the states.

This is apparently a direct quote.

"Why, when we're trying to take pressure off the border, would Canada pass a law that would put pressure on the border?" he asked.

I figure, because it's more important to not give our teenagers and other citizens a criminal record over something so paltry as minor possession of marijuana. Who knows, maybe more stringent border rules would keep American guns out of here. I for one would sooner have us keeping our dope here, and the guns elsewhere..

Dagenais

Nov16-04, 12:27 AM

It’s not a silly system.

The minority system is indeed a silly system. It is highly unstable as they last for a very short period. In fact, the average minority government in Canada only lasts about a year and a half. According to Mapleleafweb.com, 1 year, 5 months and 27 days.

fourier jr

Nov16-04, 12:36 AM

I'm not sure how many premiers have been PMs. I don't think that many

no provincial premier has ever become prime minister. the closest was robert stanfield (nova scotia) in the 70s sometime; he was leader of the pc party & thay had 2 seats less than the liberals.

re: pot
trudeau was famous for saying "there's no room for te state int he bedrooms of the nation" but the sentence before that says a lot more: "...we're just bringing the laws of the land up to contemporary society i think..." laws are passed to reflect the views of the society, not the other way around, at least if we live in a democracy. & if bush or cellucci or whoever, doesn't like our 21st-century freedoms they can go %^&* themselves; if they don't lead my government they should butt out.

cepheid

Nov16-04, 12:37 AM

Dagenais...many of the governments in Europe are almost always minority governments due to the fact that they operate on a system of proportional representation...which means that the percentage of seats for a party is quite analogous to the percentage of the popular vote they received, as I'm sure you know. Those governments are not necessarily on the verge of collapse, and in my opinion...such as system would be far more democratic...because the party in power would not be able to act with impunity, thereby increasing their accountability and reducing the chances of corruption. They are now forced to cooperate with opposition parties in many matters, ensuring that all views are brought to the table, more views are represented...issues are thoroughly discussed/debated. It may be slower, but who knows...it might be better in the long run.

The government has to be careful not to lose sight of it's main purpose...ie acting for the good of Canadians...if it goes astray...it may fall. Horrible bungling like the sponsorship scandal (which I know Quebec was particularly outraged about) arose because of the liberal's 10 yr iron clad grip on the gov't. Don't get me wrong...I wouldn't want to see any other party holding the reins right now, but I prefer this situation...it introduces added checks and balances.

Janitor

Nov16-04, 12:58 AM

How many of your retirement benefits would follow you if you moved to another country and took up citizenship there? Presumably you could get your IRA to tag along, possibly minus some up-front taxes due before it transfers to some institution outside of the U.S. But would you forfeit all of the Social Security benefits you had coming to you?

Ivan Seeking

Nov16-04, 01:03 AM

It appears that by maintaining dual citizenship, and since we are both entitled to benefits now, we can still collect. If we were to renounce our US citizenship I have no idea yet. Obviously you can't collect if you leave while still inelegible for benefits.

Smurf

Nov16-04, 01:05 AM

As you can see Ivan, it's pretty much Quebec vs the rest of the country :rofl: . (this is accually one area I think is reflected accuratly in this thread)

cepheid

Nov16-04, 01:46 AM

^^Yeah, it's unfortunate, but here's one of the reasons why there is such a rift (see link below)...there was a time when I was proud of Canada's diverse/dual nature and wanted to try keep a such a culturally rich heritage within the country...it was part of our identity...proof that as a country we had (more or less) achieved an unprecedented level of social and political harmony and tolerance. But after hearing about incidents like these...I cannot help thinking..."fine, if they have such disdain for the rest of us, why don't they just get the hell out, and see if I care!" :tongue2: It's immature, but check it out:

"It is not the veterans' problem that the Bloc is a political oxymoron" (http://www.cbc.ca/national/rex/rex_041109.html)

Oh...and what I said about minority governments...I guess I didn't know what the hell I was talking about:

"Parliament hill is up, but is it running?" (http://www.cbc.ca/national/rex/rex_041022.html)

Edit: wow. These are very a propos.

Smurf

Nov16-04, 01:59 AM

I want Canada to become a Proportional Representation Government. Or even better: Anarchosyndicalism

Tsu

Nov16-04, 04:11 AM

What's your take on Jack Layton?

iansmith

Nov16-04, 06:11 AM

^^Yeah, it's unfortunate, but here's one of the reasons why there is such a rift (see link below)...there was a time when I was proud of Canada's diverse/dual nature and wanted to try keep a such a culturally rich heritage within the country...it was part of our identity...proof that as a country we had (more or less) achieved an unprecedented level of social and political harmony and tolerance. But after hearing about incidents like these...I cannot help thinking..."fine, if they have such disdain for the rest of us, why don't they just get the hell out, and see if I care!"

You were naive to think that harmony and tolerance between nationality in Canada. You should should have a look at canadian history in the last 50 years.

Your are also basing your opinion on an group that contains memeber that are extremestist in their view. They do not necessary represssent a majority but the taught you express part of the reason people from quebec have disdain with mostly ontario. Also, did you ever wonder why the montreal hockey is calle the Canadien.

You should also think about the canadian identity and if there any person that repressent the this identity in english canada. When I was in ontario, one of teacher ask if anyome could come up with a person No one could answer the question.

iansmith

Nov16-04, 06:12 AM

For any american looking to immigrate,

http://www.marryanamerican.ca/

fourier jr

Nov16-04, 10:08 AM

For any american looking to immigrate,

http://www.marryanamerican.ca/

or this one:
http://www.thatsitimmovingtocanada.com/

Gonzolo

Nov16-04, 10:32 AM

I am:
...
Pro-Extremism
Anti-Democracy
...

These two caught my attention, so I'm curious : what about Muslim extremists whom are often associated with terrorism?

What is it about Democracy that you don't like? How should the government be chosen?

And how do you reconcile "Anti-'Capitalism" and "Pro-Free Market"?

Just wondering.

JasonRox

Nov16-04, 11:36 AM

selfAdjoint

Nov16-04, 02:58 PM

Tsu

Nov16-04, 03:39 PM

HEY!!

Jack Layton???? :shy:

Also, I've been exploring job possiblilties at hospitals... Why are their shifts 7 hours and 42 minutes long? (42 minutes??? That's a little odd to me. :biggrin:)

fourier jr

Nov16-04, 05:21 PM

The muslims that attacked on 911 are trying to send a message.

Does anyone even know what that message is?

Note: They aren't doing this because Americans have freedom. That's bull**** talk from the Bush Administration. If you know, then you would understand why the Bush Administration didn't say anything about it.

oo! pick me pick me!

from a whole article on 9/11/01 in particular:
Of course it's not America the terrorists hate; it's American foreign policy. It's what the United States has done to the world in the past half century -- all the violence, the bombings, the depleted uranium, the cluster bombs, the assassinations, the promotion of torture, the overthrow of governments, and more.

The terrorists -- whatever else they might be -- are also rational human beings; which is to say that in their own minds they have a rational justification for their actions. Most terrorists are people deeply concerned by what they see as social, political, or religious injustice and hypocrisy, and the immediate grounds for their terrorism is often retaliation for an action of the United States.

There's no need to wonder about the possible motivations of those from the Middle East or other Muslim countries to commit terrorist acts against the United States. Consider these actions of American foreign policy during the last 20 years:
The shooting down of two Libyan planes in 1981; the bombardment of Beirut in 1983 and 1984; the furnishing of military aid and intelligence to both sides of the Iran-Iraq War of 1980-88 so as to maximize the damage each side would inflict upon the other; the bombing of Libya in 1986; the bombing and sinking of an Iranian ship in 1987; the shooting down of an Iranian passenger plane in 1988; the shooting down of two more Libyan planes in 1989; the massive bombing of the Iraqi people in 1991; the continuing bombings and sanctions against Iraq; the bombing of Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998, the latter destroying a pharmaceutical plant which provided for half the impoverished nation's medicine; the habitual support of Israel despite the devastation and routine torture it inflicts upon the Palestinian people; the condemnation of Palestinian resistance to this; the abduction of "suspected terrorists" from Muslim countries, such as Malaysia, Pakistan, Lebanon and Albania, who are then taken to places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia, where they are tortured; the large military and hi-tech presence in Islam's holiest land, Saudi Arabia, and elsewhere in the Persian Gulf region; the support of anti-democratic Middle East governments from the Shah to the Saudis.
http://members.aol.com/bblum6/sep11.htm

or better still....
We sent Marines into Lebanon and you only have to go to Lebanon, to Syria or to Jordan to witness first-hand the intense hatred among many people for the United States because we bombed and shelled and unmercifully killed totally innocent villagers -- women and children and farmers and housewives -- in those villages around Beirut. ... As a result of that ... we became kind of a Satan in the minds of those who are deeply resentful. That is what precipitated the taking of our hostages and that is what has precipitated some of the terrorist attacks. - Jimmy Carter, after he left office

& from a debate on US foreign policy....
>> Attempting to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments.
>> Unprovoked military invasion of some 20 sovereign nations.
>> Working to crush more than 30 populist movements which were fighting against dictatorial regimes.
>> Providing indispensable support to a small army of brutal dictatorships: Mobutu of Zaire, Pinochet of Chile, Duvalier of Haiti, Somoza of Nicaragua, the Greek junta, Marcos of the Philippines, Rhee of Korea, the Shah of Iran, 40 years of military dictators in Guatemala, Suharto of Indonesia, Hussein of Iraq, the Brazilian junta, Trujillo of the Dominican Republic, the Taliban of Afghanistan, and others.
>> Dropping powerful bombs on the people of about 25 countries, including 40 consecutive days and nights in Iraq, 78 days and nights in Yugoslavia, and several months in Afghanistan, all three of these countries having met the first requirement as an American bombing target -- being completely defenseless. And not once ever has the United States come even close to repairing the great damage caused by its bombings. Afghanistan and Iraq are of course the latest examples.
>> Increasing use of depleted uranium, one of the most despicable weapons ever designed by mankind, which produces grossly deformed babies amongst its many endearing qualities, and which, in a civilized world not intimidated by the United States, would be categorically banned.
>> Repeated use of cluster bombs, another fiendish device designed by a mad scientist, which has robbed numerous young people of one or more limbs, and some of their eyesight, and continues to do so every day in many countries as the bombs remain on the ground.
>> Assassination attempts on the lives of some 40 foreign political leaders.
>> Crude interference in dozens of foreign democratic elections.
>> Gross manipulation of labor movements.
>> Shameless manufacture of "news", the disinformation effect of which is multiplied when CIA assets in other countries pick up the same stories.
>> Providing handbooks, materials and encouragement for the practice of torture.
>> Chemical or biological warfare or the testing of such weapons, and the use of powerful herbicides, all causing terrible effects to the people and environments of China, Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Panama, Cuba, Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia and elsewhere.
>> Encouragement of drug trafficking in various parts of the world when it served the CIA's purposes.
>> Supporting death squads, particularly in Latin America.
>> Causing grievous harm to the health and well-being of the world's masses by turning the screws of the IMF, World Bank, WTO, and other international financial institutions, as well as by imposing unmerciful sanctions and embargoes.
>> Much of the above has led to millions of refugees wandering homeless over the earth.
http://members.aol.com/bblum6/debate.htm

devious_

Nov16-04, 06:08 PM

According to bin Laden, the message was:
1. Get out of the Muslim holy land (Saudi Arabia)
2. Convert to Islam.
Actually, the message is:
Stop messing with Muslims and meddling in their affairs.

Gonzolo

Nov16-04, 06:09 PM

This link answers quite well what bin Laden wants :
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,845725,00.html

Thanks to russ_watters from the boards.

Relating this back to the topic ... I believe the people who dissaprove of US foreign policy etc. have a somewhat more positive view of Canada, even though US-Canada relations are generally good.

Nov16-04, 06:20 PM

The minority system is indeed a silly system. It is highly unstable as they last for a very short period. In fact, the average minority government in Canada only lasts about a year and a half. According to Mapleleafweb.com, 1 year, 5 months and 27 days.

You're so anti-Canada it's disgusting.

What kind of system do you propose we use? Let me guess, the American one?

:rolleyes:

check

Nov16-04, 07:13 PM

With a parliamentary system, minority governments are bound to happen. Yes, they may be unstable but it gives parties a chance regroup and reform strategies and policies. If a ruling party suddenly goes from majority to minority after an election, it’s a sign that their polices weren’t working as well now then they were in the past, so they have to reformulate their ideas. If a new party comes into power as a minority then it would be obvious to them that the people like something about their party as least a little more than anyone else’s and so they’ll try to build on that in order to achieve a majority when then feel like calling an election.

At least, that’s my own view of the system. Love it or hate it, when it’s a greater than two party system these things happen.

check

Nov16-04, 07:26 PM

Smurf

Nov16-04, 08:27 PM

These two caught my attention, so I'm curious : what about Muslim extremists whom are often associated with terrorism?

What is it about Democracy that you don't like? How should the government be chosen?

And how do you reconcile "Anti-'Capitalism" and "Pro-Free Market"?

Just wondering.

Also on my list is Anti-Violence and Anti-Religion (gonna change that to organized religion). So obviously I don't support Islam or the bombing of the WTC (because it was violent).

I try not to associate myself with media terms like 'Muslim Extremist'. Besides, in my opinion Bin Laden and his group are more Fanatical than anything else.

What don't I like about Democracy? It denies the rights of the people to govern their own country, it is the single most inefficient Government I have ever studied. Is it better than Fascism? By all means. Is it the best we have? Not in a long shot. Is it the best we've tried? Yes, because we're too scared to try anything else that might deny Big Business control of our lives and minds.

I currently Support Anarchosyndicalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism) and one or two forms of Technocracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy), but I expect this to change.

Free Market is the Idea that by not restricting prices (among other economic activity) the economy will flourish. This is a very good system and I think it is the best economic system implemented to date (I love Keynes though). However I do not support the Idea (unless i got the definition wrong) that this is the 'perfect' way to implement it and that a completely unrestricted economy will be the most fair, the most rich, in short, the best. Some would call me a Socialist.

Ivan - I'm the 'odd one out', don't get the idea that Canada is full of Radical Technates, most people here are just as naive about Political Theory as Americans.

Quote of the Day:
Harry Lime "In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock!"

tribdog

Nov16-04, 08:51 PM

Gawd, I can't believe this thread is still alive. I did some research and there aren't enough interesting facts about Canada to warrant 14 pages of posts. Wanna hear my interesting Canadian story?
I had a 4th grade teacher who was from Canada. He told the most interesting stories and hinted that he might take us to his Lodge up North on a field trip. We had a Christmas party on the last day of school before the holidays and my mom made two cakes (she's an amazing cake decorator) After the party this teacher comes up to me and explains that he had forgotten to serve the cakes, so he'd freeze them and we'd have them after New Years. then he took the two cakes to the teachers Christmas party. He quit during the break and we never saw him again.

revelator

Nov16-04, 11:35 PM

Maybe this is more of a testament to your mothers cake baking ability?

Smurf

Nov17-04, 03:42 AM

or lack thereof

Tsu

Nov17-04, 04:18 AM

Ok Tsu, I’ll take it.

Personally Jack Layton seems like a very nice, smart man. I truly believe he wants what’s best for the country and would probably make a good PM. HOWEVER, it’s the NDP party that has some issues. I don’t trust them with the economy at all. I’m for most of their policies but realistically; I don’t think there’s anyway they could possibly pay for much of what they’re proposing. Perhaps a minority NDP government wouldn’t be such a bad thing though. Sort of a ‘try it before you buy it’ routine. :p
Thanks, check. :biggrin: I'm still reading through the platforms of both parties. I find it very interesting that when you have elections, you are not only filling offices but sometimes choosing a whole new government!! I read on the Liberal Party webpage that "Canadians elected a new Government on June 28th, the 38th in our nation’s proud history"! Do you not have term limits for your MP's? How often do you hold elections (and change governments :biggrin:)?

Can ANYONE shed some light on the lost 18 minutes in a work shift? In America, work shifts are typically 8 hours. Why are yours 7 hours and 42 minutes???? This one is driving me BANANAS!! :surprised :rofl:

edit: WAIT!! WE'VE GOT IT!! They give you 18 minutes to get home before the hockey game starts. RIGHT??? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: HOC-KEY!!!!

Smurf

Nov17-04, 04:20 AM

We hold elections every 5 Years max, the Prime Minister has to call it but he can't wait more than 5 years, if he does the queen gets medeival on his *** (thats when the PM runs and hides behind the bar in the House of Commons). Usually it happens in the 4th year.

18 minutes is the standard amount of time it takes to get to the hockey rink.

edit: Ha! Figured it out right before I said it.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Tsu

Nov17-04, 04:22 AM

OMG!!!! I WAS (close to) RIGHT!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

(I was editing as Smurf was posting :biggrin:)

tumor

Nov17-04, 09:15 AM

Hey! I'm from Canada but each time I see someone in Europe having his/her bagpack emblazoned with maple leaf, I feel like smacking them in the head!

Gonzolo

Nov17-04, 11:13 AM

Gawd, I can't believe this thread is still alive. I did some research and there aren't enough interesting facts about Canada to warrant 14 pages of posts....

Here's are facts that might interest some (it's not all hockey!) :

-Whistler B.C. is constantly cited as the best snowboarding resort (must be good for ski also) in North America by (U.S.) magazines.

-Jim Carrey, Mike Myers, Shania Twain, Dan Akroyd, Leslie Nielson (I think), Pamela Anderson, Bryan Adams, Celine Dion, Cirque du Soleil are from Canada.

-Rutherford (nuclei), Bell (telephone), and Banting (insulin) worked in Canada.

-I think the origin of basketball is closely related to McGill University.

-Superman was first drawn by a Canadian guy.

-Quebec city is the only fortified city north of Mexico, and perhaps the first ever founded in North America by Europeans (1608).

-If you look at any Quebec province map, you will immediately note a large crater (round island in round lake) from an ancient meteorite.

-The Avro Arrow was perhaps one of the first (if not the first) supersonic planes ever built (in the fifties).

-Canadian soldiers formed the first wave in Normandy (Dieppe, 1942).

-Canada is a major supplier of executive jets.

Nov17-04, 12:01 PM

Do you not have term limits for your MP's?

Prime Ministers, Premiers, Members of Parliament and Members of Legislative Assembly can be voted in as many times as they can.

As an example, Alberta Premier Ralph Klein has been in power for 12 years and is about to be re-elected for another term.

check

Nov17-04, 12:38 PM

Hey! I'm from Canada but each time I see someone in Europe having his/her bagpack emblazoned with maple leaf, I feel like smacking them in the head!

Why? :confused:

tribdog

Nov17-04, 01:19 PM

Why? :confused:
because people in Europe are supposed to use pot leaves.
hey,nobody was biting on my Canada stuff, gonna try offending a few Europeans.

fourier jr

Nov17-04, 06:08 PM

Prime Ministers, Premiers, Members of Parliament and Members of Legislative Assembly can be voted in as many times as they can.

As an example, Alberta Premier Ralph Klein has been in power for 12 years and is about to be re-elected for another term.

Wilfred Laurier was in office continuously longer than any other PM, 15 yrs from 1896-1911. The WLM King was in office longer though (23yrs, longer than anyone in the British Commonwealth) but he had 2 terms, 1921-1930 & 1935-1948 or something like that. I think WAC Bennett was Premier of BC longer than any other premier (19yrs continuously), except possibly Tommy Douglas (Sask).

Smurf

Nov17-04, 06:29 PM

Gonzolo;
You forgot Tom Green and Sandford Fleming (time zones). Then of course there's all our rock bands. And Lester Pearson (former PM) may have saved the world from a nuclear holocaust by proposing the creation of the UN security Council during the Suez Crisis.

revelator

Nov17-04, 11:19 PM

Then of course there's all our rock bands.

Damn straight! Go Rush.

Don't forget the Trailer Park Boys, gotta love them guys..

check

Nov17-04, 11:48 PM

Damn straight! Go Rush.

Don't forget the Trailer Park Boys, gotta love them guys..

And who could forget Degrassi Junior High/Degrassi High? Arguably THE most realistic portrayal of high school life ever to be on television. Degrassi was directly responsible for BH:90210 which then led to all those other crappy high school dramas. But Degrassi started it all and was the best. Canada has some pretty awesome shows…. Yep.

revelator

Nov17-04, 11:51 PM

Red Green! The Royal Canadian Air Farce! I love watching CBC.

tumor

Nov18-04, 12:00 AM

Blasphemous Heretic!! Thou Shalt Be Destroyed by My Mighty Hockey Stick!!!

I always hear on TV that hockey was invented in Canada.That is simply BS!
Check 16 century paintings of Dutch or Flemish painter Van Eyck(I don't remember the name exactly,but he is Big master painter)
He painted in few of his works kids and adults wearing primitive skates and playing hockey with sticks on frozen dikes and lakes.
So.. Canadians shove it!

Ivan Seeking

Nov18-04, 01:12 AM

http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/sc-cs/o-cda.ra

http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/sc-cs/anthem_e.cfm

fourier jr

Nov18-04, 01:41 AM

I always hear on TV that hockey was invented in Canada.That is simply BS!
Check 16 century paintings of Dutch or Flemish painter Van Eyck(I don't remember the name exactly,but he is Big master painter)
He painted in few of his works kids and adults wearing primitive skates and playing hockey with sticks on frozen dikes and lakes.
So.. Canadians shove it!

the game known as "hockey" with the current rules, etc was started in montreal:

"From Stanley Street on the east side to Drummond Street on the west side and the two lane ways, define a space that allowed us to have a rink of approximately 200 X 80 ... 200 X 85 feet"
http://montreal.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=hockeyhome020705

Smurf

Nov18-04, 03:11 AM

Yeah so you shove it!
gawd;
I can't take much more of this heresy

Nov18-04, 03:19 AM

Nobody knows where hockey was first played. Anybody that professes to is either very biased for one reason or another or just terribly uninformed.

Lots of places including Montreal, Halifax, Quebec, Windsor NS and others have legitimate claims.

And count me as another huge fan of both TPB and Degrassi. I always had a crush on Caitlyn growing up!

:tongue2:

tumor

Nov18-04, 09:39 AM

Yeah so you shove it!
gawd;
I can't take much more of this heresy

Sorry Man! I did not mean to offend anyone. :redface:
One more thing about Canada though;
Canada is the place where political correctness was maybe not invented but perfected.(I think I mentioned that in my previous post, hmm?).

check

Nov18-04, 12:31 PM

I always had a crush on Caitlyn growing up!
:tongue2:

LoL! Everyone had a crush on her!

JasonRox

Nov18-04, 12:41 PM

Canadians never say hockey was invented in Canada.

Besides, who cares where it was invented, we still beat the US at the gold.

check

Nov18-04, 12:51 PM

Oh, getting back to the government.

Today, I read in my school paper that there is a motion building for electoral reform.
Basically they want “popular votes translated directly into the number of seats awarded to a given political party.”

I think this is a terrible idea for the following obvious reasons:
- Majority governments (which are much more effective than minority ones) would be extremely rare.
- People’s concerns wouldn’t get heard because they wouldn’t have a local MP to bring concerns to.
- How would the representing MPs be chosen? (e.g. 35% of the seats won by Liberals. Who of the Liberal Party gets those seats?)
- Near zero chance of independent candidates being represented.

http://www.gazette.uwo.ca/article.cfm?section=FrontPage&articleID=153&month=11&day=18&year=2004

tumor

Nov18-04, 02:00 PM

Canadians never say hockey was invented in Canada.

Yes they do, just like Americans think they invented first car.

Check this two paintings by Pieter Bruegel,1565 "The hunters in the snow" and 1565 "Winter landscape with a bird trap"

Sorry for the pictures quality,but believe me those people down there on the frozen lakes play hockey, 300 years before Canada even existed.

Smurf

Nov18-04, 08:46 PM

IF tumor = Mention(Van Eyck) Excess 1
Return Post = fourier jr
Cout = "Shove It"
END

Ivan Seeking

Nov18-04, 08:57 PM

Yes they do, just like Americans think they invented first car.

Anything that I've seen in the last couple of decades shows that Ford invented the production assembly line; not the automobile.

...and we all know that Al Gore invented the internet. :biggrin:

Ivan Seeking

Nov18-04, 10:43 PM

revelator

Nov18-04, 11:33 PM

- Majority governments (which are much more effective than minority ones) would be extremely rare

There's the counter-argument that says minority governments are more efficient, as no party has a clear majority, each one is in a position where they'll want to do things to please the electorate.

check

Nov19-04, 12:04 AM

There's the counter-argument that says minority governments are more efficient, as no party has a clear majority, each one is in a position where they'll want to do things to please the electorate.

That's true. I was thinking efficiency interms of speed of passing bills though. But yeah, minority governments would benifit the people more...in theory.

Smurf

Nov19-04, 01:42 AM

In theory democracy is supposed to be fair and represent the people. So much for Theory.

fourier jr

Nov19-04, 02:21 AM

Yes they do, just like Americans think they invented first car.

Check this two paintings by Pieter Bruegel,1565 "The hunters in the snow" and 1565 "Winter landscape with a bird trap"

Sorry for the pictures quality,but believe me those people down there on the frozen lakes play hockey, 300 years before Canada even existed.

do the dutch (or whoever) say they invented figure skating & speed skating also just because there are people skating in those pics?

& I like how in Mike Moore's movie "Roger & Me" a couple GM workers try to say that the Industrial Revolution (capitalised) started in the USA, and not 100+ yrs earlier in Britain

Gonzolo

Nov19-04, 09:46 AM

Can anyone tell me about the area along the Canadian/Washington border - along the National route 1? There are a number of towns shown such as Abbotsford and Chilliwack; even as far East as Hope. What is this part of the country like? Is the area rugged or fairly developed? What are the highways like in the winter?

I have never been there, but I have met a guy from Chilliwack once (this town name does stick in your mind...), and he was just just as ... "civilized" as anyone coming from a developed area. All Canadian highways I have seen are always very clean in the winter. It is during a storm that you must very extra careful. It will happen a few times each year, radios will recommend not driving, 100km/h traffic becomes 60km/h, with about 10% the usual amount of cars on the roads. But plows work around the clock, so that the public roads are always clean before your own driveway, which is quite nice.

I would expect the Chiliwack region highway conditions to be similar to or better than what I have seen in the east, but don't take my word for it.

Entropy

Nov19-04, 10:36 AM

I live in Lake Mary, FL. Although I don't like living here because of the heat, traffic, and people. But it really is a beautiful area to live in. City is constantly planting new trees and flowers. Too bad so many idiots live here.

tumor

Nov19-04, 01:11 PM

City is constantly planting new trees and flowers. Too bad so many idiots live here.

You mean of course old Canadian geezers coming to live there, over the winter months right?
And i want to shatter another huge myth about Canada, people often say how clean Canadian cities are :rofl: :rofl:
I live in toronto and toronto is the dirtiest city i have ever seen.Garbage everywhere,on sidewalks,on subways,buses, etc.
When there is garbage collection day, buisnesess and restaurants put their garbage on sidewalks in black garbage bags or whatever they have at hand, and sometimes all of that stuff gets thrown on the street,it looks like third World country(and it stinks BIG time! in the summer)
On my visit to Chicago or other US places, i find their cities much more cleaner and taken care of.
PS.Picking **** after your dog in Canada is still new thing.

check

Nov19-04, 02:08 PM

Yeah, I'll agree with tumor about Toronto. I found Manhatten to be much cleaner. Although, cities like Detroit and Buffalo are just plain icky compared to the 'T dot'. (However, I suspect that's true when comparing those cities with most places).

I do think for the most part that Canadian cities are pretty clean...more or less.

iansmith

Nov19-04, 02:33 PM

When I visited toronto, it seem clean compare to montreal. In downtown montreal, the alleys and are dirty and lack proper sanitition levels. People actually pee in those alleys and buisnesses and restaurant throw their garbage in their and it ends a big smelly mess.

The trash on the street also get some full that stuff is coming out of it.

check

Nov19-04, 02:57 PM

People actually pee in those alleys

I think we've all taken a leak in an alley at one time or another after a night of heavy drinking at the bars...eh?

tumor

Nov19-04, 03:10 PM

I think we've all taken a leak in an alley at one time or another after a night of heavy drinking at the bars...eh?

I even took a dump sometimes :blushing:

Gonzolo

Nov19-04, 03:22 PM

Well I saw someone piss on a wall on 5th avenue in Manhattan in broad daylight on a weekday.

Montreal, Toronto, have really clean areas. I would tend to think that Toronto is cleaner, while Montreal is more "active". I have only seen clean areas in Ottawa and Victoria. In fact, Ottawa is one of the cleanest cities I've ever seen.

Zlex

Nov19-04, 03:42 PM

I'm from Canada. If you value your fingertips and earlobes...stay away

Tsu

Nov19-04, 03:58 PM

Oh, dear... :eek:

Or is that a veiled warning (cuz you don't like Americans)? :biggrin:

iansmith

Nov19-04, 04:15 PM

I think we've all taken a leak in an alley at one time or another after a night of heavy drinking at the bars...eh?

I'm not innocent but I was a young stupid kid that did not better :wink: .

The mix of garbage and nitrogen waste is not the most pleasant and when it occuyrs every few block it makes everything worst.

BobG

Nov19-04, 05:52 PM

I'm from Canada. If you value your fingertips and earlobes...stay away

Oh, dear...

Or is that a veiled warning (cuz you don't like Americans)?

Toes, too. And don't try walking home after a night drinking at the local bar. A pit stop at -45 can turn into a desperate situation.

(You'd think someone would have thought of inventing and selling something for that)

Ivan Seeking

Nov19-04, 06:01 PM

...Martin, in Chile for an Asia-Pacific summit, was undeterred by spirited clashes between police using tear gas and angry protesters that marked Bush's arrival in the South American country.

But he urged Canadians not to resort to violence. [continued]
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2004/11/19/722165-cp.html

:approve: :approve: :approve:

Nov19-04, 06:38 PM

Can anyone tell me about the area along the Canadian/Washington border - along the National route 1? There are a number of towns shown such as Abbotsford and Chilliwack; even as far East as Hope. What is this part of the country like? Is the area rugged or fairly developed? What are the highways like in the winter?

First off, it is called the Trans-Canada Highway.

Abbotsford is still pretty much a suburb of Vancouver. It's a little further away than ones like Surrey, Richmond, North Van, White Rock, but it's still considered a suburb I think. Chilliwack is more getting into the interior. It is not a suburb of Vancouver. Both places are developed, but Hope isn't. I don't know why you'd even consider living in Hope. It's 200km for Vancouver with nothing around it. And Hope isn't a border town. It's quite a bit north from the border. It's got a couple fast food joints and that's it. Pretty boring place.

The highways? Wet. Always wet.

Nov19-04, 06:42 PM

And i want to shatter another huge myth about Canada, people often say how clean Canadian cities are :rofl: :rofl:
I live in toronto and toronto is the dirtiest city i have ever seen.Garbage everywhere,on sidewalks,on subways,buses, etc.
When there is garbage collection day, buisnesess and restaurants put their garbage on sidewalks in black garbage bags or whatever they have at hand, and sometimes all of that stuff gets thrown on the street,it looks like third World country(and it stinks BIG time! in the summer)
On my visit to Chicago or other US places, i find their cities much more cleaner and taken care of.
PS.Picking **** after your dog in Canada is still new thing.

Please don't confuse Toronto with Canada. Though Torontonians may like to think that nothing else except Toronto matters, there are other places in Canada besides Toronto.

And just because your city is a piece of **** doesn't mean my city is. And it isn't.

Ivan Seeking

Nov19-04, 11:56 PM

I don't know why you'd even consider living in Hope. It's 200km for Vancouver with nothing around it

Sounds like home. Our internet service still uses telegraph operators.

JasonRox

Nov20-04, 12:50 AM

You mean of course old Canadian geezers coming to live there, over the winter months right?
And i want to shatter another huge myth about Canada, people often say how clean Canadian cities are :rofl: :rofl:
I live in toronto and toronto is the dirtiest city i have ever seen.Garbage everywhere,on sidewalks,on subways,buses, etc.
When there is garbage collection day, buisnesess and restaurants put their garbage on sidewalks in black garbage bags or whatever they have at hand, and sometimes all of that stuff gets thrown on the street,it looks like third World country(and it stinks BIG time! in the summer)
On my visit to Chicago or other US places, i find their cities much more cleaner and taken care of.
PS.Picking **** after your dog in Canada is still new thing.

How many Americans have seen daylight? Not on TV, but the stuff OUTSIDE. Not many.

No offense, but I'd rather have a country with a dirty rep than one with a rep of being greedy and dumb.

loseyourname

Nov20-04, 02:53 PM

How many Americans have seen daylight? Not on TV, but the stuff OUTSIDE. Not many.

No offense, but I'd rather have a country with a dirty rep than one with a rep of being greedy and dumb.

Come on, man. My girlfriend and I are out on the water three or four times a week, either on the boat or in kayaks. I regularly hike and camp up in the Angeles forest and run foothill trails three times a week. Most of my friends are pretty active that way as well, and unlike in Ontario, we can actually go outside year round and not have to worry about freezing to death. In fact, it's physically impossible for you to see as much daylight as I do, because there isn't half as much sunlight on an annual basis there as here.

Do you really need to say idiotic things like this and perpetuate the image of the world outside of the US as horribly narrow-minded stereotypers?

Smurf

Nov20-04, 03:15 PM

JasonRex has a habit of stereotyping everyone, everywhere, so don't take it personally.

In fact, it's physically impossible for you to see as much daylight as I do, because there isn't half as much sunlight on an annual basis there as here.
This is simply not true...

Nov20-04, 03:20 PM

Do you really need to say idiotic things like this and perpetuate the image of the world outside of the US as horribly narrow-minded stereotypers?

I didn't realize Americans stereotyped non-Americans as horribly narrow minded.

Quite ironic when you think about it.

BobG

Nov20-04, 03:28 PM

In fact, it's physically impossible for you to see as much daylight as I do, because there isn't half as much sunlight on an annual basis there as here.

Not true. Every place on Earth receives the same amount of daylight. Your Northern latitudes just get their's all in one shot. Of course, in order for the Northerners to see as much daylight as you, they have to stay awake 23+ hours a day in the summer. But then again, they have all winter to catch up on their sleep.

I spent a year up in Alaska. The winter can get pretty depressing. We used to take long lunches (2-3 hours) so we could see daylight and then just work late. As long as the temperature stayed over 20 below, I'd even take walks in the middle of night (the auroras are kind of nice). You have to get outside once in awhile, even in the middle of the winter, or you'll go stir crazy.

But the summers make up for it. Alaska's an incredible place in the summer!

tumor

Nov20-04, 03:39 PM

loseyourname

Nov20-04, 03:55 PM

Not true. Every place on Earth receives the same amount of daylight. Your Northern latitudes just get their's all in one shot. Of course, in order for the Northerners to see as much daylight as you, they have to stay awake 23+ hours a day in the summer. But then again, they have all winter to catch up on their sleep.

I spent a year up in Alaska. The winter can get pretty depressing. We used to take long lunches (2-3 hours) so we could see daylight and then just work late. As long as the temperature stayed over 20 below, I'd even take walks in the middle of night (the auroras are kind of nice). You have to get outside once in awhile, even in the middle of the winter, or you'll go stir crazy.

But the summers make up for it. Alaska's an incredible place in the summer!

What I mean is that it's almost never cloudy in Southern California, whereas that is not true in Ontario, Canada. You can't see the daylight if its stuck behind the clouds.

loseyourname

Nov20-04, 03:56 PM

This is simply not true...

Again, I'm referring to the fact that we have far less cloudy days here than you do, not the amount of sunlight reaching that part of the atmosphere.

Smurf

Nov20-04, 04:11 PM

I suppose you have an excuse, living in cali, but there's still sunlight when its cloudy, the whole country doesn't just black out if a cloud drifts in the right (wrong) spot. and Ontario is not Canada.

Nov20-04, 05:13 PM

whereas that is not true in Ontario, Canada.

Thanks for clarifying that it was Ontario, Canada you were talking about, because I wasn't quite sure.

:rolleyes:

Yes I know there's an Ontario, California.

check

Nov20-04, 05:23 PM

Thanks for clarifying that it was Ontario, Canada you were talking about, because I wasn't quite sure.

:rolleyes:

Yes I know there's an Ontario, California.

There are OTHER Ontarios, you know.

BobG

Nov20-04, 05:59 PM

There are OTHER Ontarios, you know.
check! You cheated! You saw ek's white text! :rofl:

Nov20-04, 09:02 PM

There are OTHER Ontarios, you know.

Check the white text.

And in a thread about life in Canada, I'm pretty sure there's no need to clarify which Ontario it is.

And when people refer to it as Ontario, Canada, or British Columbia, Canada, it's not because there is more than one place of that name, it's for Americans who have no clue where the places are in the first place.

Tsu

Nov20-04, 09:08 PM

There is also an Ontario, Oregon.

Smurf

Nov20-04, 11:34 PM

Which is also negligible.

Dagenais

Nov21-04, 12:36 AM

If a new party comes into power as a minority then it would be obvious to them that the people like something about their party as least a little more than anyone else’s and so they’ll try to build on that in order to achieve a majority when then feel like calling an election.

Or, they simply don't want to give the Liberals that much power and control.

Perhaps a minority NDP government wouldn’t be such a bad thing though. Sort of a ‘try it before you buy it’ routine.

Did you find out about all the controversy of the 90's?

Can anyone tell me about the area along the Canadian/Washington border - along the National route 1? There are a number of towns shown such as Abbotsford and Chilliwack; even as far East as Hope. What is this part of the country like? Is the area rugged or fairly developed? What are the highways like in the winter?

The city located near the Canadian Truck Crossing is White Rock, and lately, it's developed a lot. Large stores such as Save-on-Foods, Canadian Tire, and Tim Hortons have opened up. Lots of new houses being built.

Some relatives of mine were thinking about living there.

White Rock (http://www.city.whiterock.bc.ca/)

tumor

Nov21-04, 12:41 AM

Climate in N.West US and British.C. is great. However in Toronto winter is dreadful, but there is always something going on here, lots of clubs, museums,bookstores, galleries etc.

Nov21-04, 02:12 AM

A lot of White Rock is actually very nice. It's about the only Vancouver suburb I'd recommend. (Out of Surrey, Richmond, Langley, Abby, PoCo etc)

check

Nov21-04, 03:23 AM

Or, they simply don't want to give the Liberals that much power and control.

Indeed some voters may do 'strategic' voting to try and get a minority government, but I'm not sure how many actually do.

Still, if they don't want the Liberals to have so much power, but still prefer the Liberals to another party it would send a message to the Liberals that they have to change something about the party inorder to minimize a risk of defeat next election, and thus play up to people.

Did you find out about all the controversy of the 90's?

Are you reffering to Bob Rae?
In that case, it was a surprise jump to a Majority NDP government. Since it was a majority right away the NDP was free to "gamble on some cockamamie socialist view of how to run the province." as Premier Patterson put it. (Of course he was refering to the voters, but it works here too)
Anyway, their policies just about ruined Ontario. It was too much, too quickly.

A minority goverment would have had some checks and balances and would have given the NDP a chance to sort of realize what they had to work with and would have made them a little more efficient if they won a majority later on. But that's just my opinion.

tumor

Nov21-04, 02:20 PM

Are you reffering to Bob Rae?
In that case, it was a surprise jump to a Majority NDP government. Since it was a majority right away the NDP was free to "gamble on some cockamamie socialist view of how to run the province." as Premier Patterson put it. (Of course he was refering to the voters, but it works here too)
Anyway, their policies just about ruined Ontario. It was too much, too quickly.

Don't blame NDP for Ontario's troubles back in 1990-s.Back then economy world wide was in recession, especially US.And as you know healthy Ontario economy can not exist without good growth (whatever that is) in the States
But spinnmasters at Progressive Conservatives and Harris blamed of course evil/socialistic/communistic NDP.
Remember Harris and his "Common sense Revolution"? among others , cutting welfare,closing city funded housing for poor, stoping investing in public transportation,cutting 40% budget out of ministry of environment?

check

Nov21-04, 02:27 PM

I know the NDP wasn't solely to blame, but given the economic situation at the time, they made things worse.

And yes, we all remember Harris...

Dagenais

Nov21-04, 06:45 PM

Are you reffering to Bob Rae?

I was talking about the NDP using charity money for political purposes and the Premier helping associates to obtain a casino license.

check

Nov21-04, 09:52 PM

I was talking about the NDP using charity money for political purposes and the Premier helping associates to obtain a casino license.

I was vaguely familiar with that, but not enough to formulate an informed opinion on the matter. I'll have to read up on it.

Smurf

Nov21-04, 10:54 PM

Its not going to be any worse than any other corrupt government (I.E Any other government)

Ivan Seeking

Dec10-04, 07:48 PM

Jokes aside, immigration officials report a surge in interest in moving north...

...She's not alone. South of the border in Bellingham, Wash., Charles Key, a 56-year-old Vietnam veteran, is planning his move to Canada.

"America no longer reflects my political and social values," said Key, whose ancestor Francis Scott Key wrote "The Star-Spangled Banner." [continued]
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6694546/

Smurf

Dec11-04, 03:28 AM

Yeap, everyone wants to come to Canada.

JasonRox

Dec11-04, 09:36 AM

Yeap, everyone wants to come to Canada.

Why do they want to come here?

According to the survey's, Americans don't know **** about Canada.
One out of like every 100 probably knows how to spell Canada, and maybe one out of 10 000 knows where Canada is, and one out of 100 000 knows that Canada used to be similiar to the US until a crazy man like Bush was running.

Ivan Seeking

Dec11-04, 04:23 PM

and one out of 100 000 knows that Canada used to be similiar to the US until a crazy man like Bush was running.

I would place the ratio closer to 48/100.

I first became aware of Canada's stance on freedom and liberty back in the late sixties and early 70's, during the Vietnam war. So the idea of Canadian liberty is certainly not new to Americans. Heck, I've even seen Sci-Fi that has Canada as the last stand for freedom in a world losing the battle with "Big Brother". In other words, to an extent this valid perception of Canada is part of our culture. Like I said earlier, Canada has long been the land of the free for those oppressed in the land of the [once] free.

kat

Dec13-04, 10:26 PM

hmmm, I've been curious about how Canadians view their own Patriot like laws as well as other new "anti-terrorism" laws?

check

Dec14-04, 12:07 AM

hmmm, I've been curious about how Canadians view their own Patriot like laws as well as other new "anti-terrorism" laws?

To be honest, I haven't looked into it and I don't think it's been in the news all that much. Must not be a sweeping, radical change. I'll read up on it though when I get a chance and post my thoughts.

xck

Dec14-04, 05:51 AM

Ivan Seeking

thank you so much for starting this thread. I've only made it to page 8 so far, but wanted to thank you now.

Since 5 my heart has longed for Canadian Mist or something. :devil:

Canadian-s-hip has finally happened. Nothing to do with Bush but maybe a lil something to do with Oz.

I recently bought a new car last summer. I was going to put a Canadian Flag on it, but a good friend of mine suggested I wait and think it through. So I did.

Thank goodness for dear friends. On America's last 4th of July weekend I had the Canadian Flag tattoed on my right arm. I love it. No stickers on my car, close call, though. Besides my license plate coincidentally has a Canadian name on it :surprised

When Canada snips ties (maybe never) with the Queen, I'll lay\buy some roots. Until then, oh oh Canada, oh oh Canada.

great thread, lots of good info, thanks all!

Smurf

Dec14-04, 09:05 AM

What? you got beef with the queen?

Ivan Seeking

Dec14-04, 12:49 PM

To be honest, I haven't looked into it and I don't think it's been in the news all that much. Must not be a sweeping, radical change. I'll read up on it though when I get a chance and post my thoughts.

It seems to me that Canadians are more worried about Bush than Al-Qaida. :wink:

kat

Dec14-04, 02:37 PM

It seems to me that Canadians are more worried about Bush than Al-Qaida. :wink:
Well...maybe if you weren't so blinded by your phsycotic anti-bushism fanatacism you might recognize how important it would be to view how terrorism (or the fear of) has eroded civil rights even in liberal freedom loving canada (haha). I believe...don't quote me, but check for yourself..the there was a patriot like bill pushed through with little to no debate. Actually I've heard the term "rammed" through in reference to the "anti-terrorrism bill" C-? and I think B-47..d-47, something like that. My understanding at the time was that it dropped the need for pressing charges before arresting and holding someone who was suspected of having an association with terror. I don't believe it required actively being a terrorist..but also included direct and indirect aid. Also, I remember a buzz about judges being able to coerce testimony from the accused against theirselves amongst other things.
I don't know why it wasn't all over your news, conspiracy perhaps? :biggrin:
I don't have time to search for specifics, but really, I am interested in Canadians views, knowledge..input etc. on the subject as I would expect Ivan would have been...*shrug*

tumor

Dec14-04, 08:21 PM

To be honest, I haven't looked into it and I don't think it's been in the news all that much. Must not be a sweeping, radical change. I'll read up on it though when I get a chance and post my thoughts.

You would be suprised what Canadian Government is doing to innocent people.
Ernst Zundell, rings a bell? in jail for almost 2 years.
There are many others.

Smurf

Dec14-04, 08:53 PM

Who is Ernst Zundel? and why is he in jail? (http://www.ihr.org/news/030923Zundel.shtml)
Jewish Manipulation of Canadian Government regarding Ernst Zundel (http://www.jabpage.org/posts/zundel.html)
Anti-Terrorism Act: Official Site (http://canada.justice.gc.ca/en/news/nr/2001/doc_27787.html)
Canada's Anti-Terrorism Act to be reviewed (http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M2ARTM0012675)
The two most controversial measures in the act are so-called preventive arrests and investigative hearings. The arrest power allows police to detain a suspect without a warrant if they deem it necessary to stop a terrorist action. The power to compel individuals to testify at secret hearings is designed to make sure authorities can collect vital information on terrorist activities. While government is required to report annually on how these two extraordinary tools are used, it has done so only once since the law was passed, reporting that neither power was exercised in 2002. No report for 2003 has yet been released, prompting criticism from civil liberties advocates. But federal officials said the report for 2003 is being "fine-tuned" and should be made public soon. So far, only one use of the investigative-hearing power has come to light, in a Supreme Court challenge brought by a reluctant witness who was being forced to testify about the 1985 Air India bombing (the court ruled last June that the provision does not violate the Constitution).

Canada's Anti-Terrorism Laws (http://www.911review.org/Wget/scienceforpeace.sa.utoronto.ca/Special_Activities/Galati_Page.html)

Smurf

Dec14-04, 08:58 PM

kat

Dec14-04, 09:07 PM

Regarding the Canada vs USA argument that always seems to come up; I think that anyone who arrives at the conclusion that Canada's crimes are worse than USA's needs to re-examine their own history in a more "Liberal" fashion.
Well...does it always have to be a comparision, can't you give YOUR opinion of YOUR anti-terrorism laws?

BUT, speaking of "their own history" I noticed the map Ivan put up earlier in the thread had Maine as part of Canada...I can assure you that my French Canadian ancestors on my mothers side are ROLLING in their graves..and I personally find it somewhat offensive and culturally insensitive considering many of my ancestors on my mothers side walked for weeks to reach Maine and escape persecution in Canada in the mid 1800's. So please..Leave Maine out of your Canadization plans...thx@puleeese.com

tumor

Dec14-04, 10:00 PM

Regardig Zundell inprisonement, he was thrown in jail for writing books!
Books about very controversial topic, but books nontheless.
What country does that? Saudi Arabia, China ? No! Canada beacon of freedom and liberty.
USA is 100 times more free and liberal than Canada, even under the Bush and Co!

PS. Who is behind Zundell inprisonement? Jewish lobby of course,and majority of spineless Canadians do nothing.HOW PEOPLE HERE CAN BE SO DUMB????????

Smurf

Dec15-04, 12:22 AM

Well...does it always have to be a comparision, can't you give YOUR opinion of YOUR anti-terrorism laws?
Kat express my contempt for my own government so many times. However I do believe that Canada is much more liberal than the USA, if I ever see an effective argument disproving that assertation I will only welcome it, but I havn't heard anything to even put Canada on par with the crimes of the US.

Dec15-04, 04:37 AM

HOW PEOPLE HERE CAN BE SO DUMB????????

I suppose english is your second language, but that sentence is very ironic.

Smurf

Dec15-04, 09:03 AM

I suppose english is your second language, but that sentence is very ironic.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Gonzolo

Dec15-04, 09:08 AM

It seems to me that Canadians are more worried about Bush than Al-Qaida. :wink:

That's not far from the truth. Although Canadians don't approve of Al-Qaida's actions, Al-Qaida never did attack Canada (yet?). I feel much of the newer security measures in Canada are there to help the U.S.

Some Canadians are worried that Bush policies mean the US will try to run Canadian natural ressources in the future. The pre-emptive strike policy is quite contrary to Canadian values.

US's lumber and cow embargo probably hurt Canada more than Al-Qaida ever has. (Although perhaps they are indirectly due to US's problems with the middle east.)

xck

Dec15-04, 09:17 AM

Smurf

I have no "beef" with the queen. I simply don't understand why she is Canada's icon in abstentia, right? She resides in England, no?

I thought the Canadian governement severed ties with England (with their blessing of course) and gained their independence (governmentally at least) back in the 60's or 70's, I think the 70's. I am unable to access my brain file on that this second.

I am unable to think of the word, the group of countries that Britain had it's grip on like Australia and the others (i never took history and have flunked every IQ test for a good reason), and if I remember correctly it was as if Britain said, "Okay you are set free from us, but our finger you will always pheel" It reminded me of those who leave street gangs, they still walk with the tattoo, but are disconnected from the gang. I remember when I did some digging a few years ago on Canada I was mighty surprised.

The Queen reminds me of a ghost. Gone, but lingering. Hovering still over Canada.

I love Canada. Maybe one day I will live there (dreams are real). I have a plate that came to be (in an odd way) from Canada. It says Victoria, BC, Canada and is a lovely blue plate which matches my Blue Willow set. I'm preparing to just jump on an Amtrak in February, and head north. I'm in California so it would be a nice train ride North. I hear I would have to take a pherry from Seattle to BC. I guess I 'll have to wait and sea

Many things Canadian have found their way to me. Where I live now, there are some Canadians that are in and around. I :!!) it.

My brother is marrying a Canadian gal next September, but I think she is from Ontario or Toronto (doesn't count, altho I will see New Foundland one day). I wonder if Canada would consider a citizenship swap. I'll gladly give her my American-whatever, on the condition that she give me hers. I better hurry and meet her before she sells her house to move to Cali. Maybe unlike most, if I buy, I could have a vacation home in Canada, and Cali and never pay taxes

My desire to go to Canada, possibly live there IF they'll have me has NOTHING to do with President Bush. He's doing his thing, and I"m doing my thing. Like I stated in my other post, since I was 5 while other girls were dreaming of Paris, or wherever, I was dreaming of Canada.

I would have to return to Cali to purchase books. My goodness ... the other day I purchased a book, it was 39.00 and in Canada it was 69.00 or 79.00 :eek: If a book catches my interest I'll pay whatever to own the book short term to receive the information, but to pay almost double what I am able to buy here for half? Wow. I would like to live close to the Northern border so the trip to the bookstore in WA wouldn't be far. Oh yeah, I guess it would have to be close to the pherry. I never believed in phairies till I was told one would definitely have to get me into Canada. :surprised

It's cool if Queen is still kickin' when I arrive there. I love green. My love for Canada makes no sense at all, and it doesn't have to. I do love the low-low crime rate. Wow, we Americans could sure learn a lot from yous. I better brush up on my English before my trip :uhh: I red French and English are your country's *- languages and are taught in schools. Sometimes I wonder why America doesn't follow suit and just get over it and make Spanish/English America's languages. Afterall this used to be Mexico

Thank you for asking your question Smurf. I was able to arrive at a conclusion, without compromise, in me mind that has escaped me till now.

!Wait a minute, you are from BC :surprised Please pheel free to correct me on anything that is crooked in my response. If you care to, please email me at Oaracal@aol.com if you are up on custom's laws. I have read some, and all I know is I need to contact some outfit in San Francisco to make sure neither of us (myself and the Mr.) have no border problems.

I was recently married, and we are going to moonhoney in Canada. If he can get across the border it will be wei, and if not then it will be me. Probably just for a few hours if he is unable to pass customs. If you don't "do" email that's cool. Someone will, no problem. If he is unable to get across the border, he'll just have to wait in WA :devil:

Smurf

Dec15-04, 10:25 AM

I would correct all your spelling mistakes.. but.. but... there's just too many of them. Let's start with 'pheel', it's feel, not pheel. ok now i'm off to school.

-Canada gained an independant government in 1863 but england remained in control of various aspects such as foreign affairs, after ww1 we gained control of our foreign affairs and were recognised by the world as fully independant.

Edit: the queen only has symbolic power and all positions appointed by the queen (such as Governor General) don't have any power and pretty much have to do what they're told.

Edit2: ok really have to go to school now

Edit3: I'm glad your inffatuated with Canada, makes a nice change from the usual crap we get from Americans.

Edit4: Crap I missed my bus.

Gonzolo

Dec15-04, 11:35 AM

xck, I feel like keeping your post and mail it to some of my Canadian friends. As for books, I am wondering whether the book prices you saw weren't in Canadian currency. Only a few years ago it was valued at about 66% of US currency, so the difference wasn't so bad.

As for the Queen of England, there probably isn't enough pressure or motivation to boot her completely, it's not anyone's priority. As long as she does (and only does) what Canadians tells her to do (what the prime minister advises her, such as naming the Governor General), she's cool. The whole gouvernment system is based on the British one after all.

iansmith

Dec15-04, 01:51 PM

I thought the Canadian governement severed ties with England (with their blessing of course) and gained their independence (governmentally at least) back in the 60's or 70's, I think the 70's. I am unable to access my brain file on that this second.

Canada gained full control of its constitution in 1982. This usually view as the year canada became indepent. Prior to 1982, to change its constitution, canada had to go to england and request changes. In 1982, the constitution was brought back to canada, and now, the canadian government can change the constitution when ever it wants with the aggrement of the provinces. England (i.e. the queen) has no constitution and legistative power in canada since the Canada Act in 1982.

There is also the 1931 Statute of Westminster, where all self-governing dominion of the British empire, which include canada, gained legislative sovereignty. This is also viewed by some people as the independce of canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Canada

Gonzolo

Dec15-04, 04:13 PM

iansmith, I am not sure I understand your signature, (in relation with your avatar?). Do you have that radio channel in Halifax?

lucifer

Dec15-04, 05:20 PM

iansmith

Dec15-04, 06:00 PM

iansmith, I am not sure I understand your signature, (in relation with your avatar?). Do you have that radio channel in Halifax?

If you have the internet, you listen to that radio station. I am not from halifax. I am studying there.

As far the relation goes, if you are canada you probably heared the CTRC decision about closing CHOI 98.1 in Quebec city. The logo is from that radio station and the signature is the song by Les pistolets roses called "Liberté" that was written few before the CTRC in relation to the situation with the radio station.
http://www.lespistoletsroses.com/liberte.html

iansmith

Dec15-04, 06:06 PM

check

Dec15-04, 06:27 PM

hmm.. i'm a HS senior and considering going to school in Canada. this is interesting. since there are so many people from Canada that are reading this thread i'm just gonna throw this out there: would it be that hard for me be able to get into Canada if i just wanna study? and what are some of the good schools(i've heard about some like U of Toronto, McGill but can't really find too much info about how good they are... ).

and yes i don't like the direction we are going in right now but i'm for the most part, politically apathetic, so that's not my main reason....

I go to UWO (University of Western Ontario) and it’s consistently ranked among the top 5 schools in Canada for medical (3rd this year: http://www.macleans.ca/universities/) as well as this year, grads from Western ranked their overall university experience higher than any other school in Canada. It’s a great school, not just for medical, but overall.
www.uwo.ca

As for how difficult/easy it is to study here, I’m guessing it’s pretty easy considering how many foreign students attend my school. Just check out a school website and find ‘international students’. That should give you all the info you need.

Dec16-04, 05:24 AM

Smurf

I have no "beef" with the queen. I simply don't understand why she is Canada's icon in abstentia, right? She resides in England, no?

I thought the Canadian governement severed ties with England (with their blessing of course) and gained their independence (governmentally at least) back in the 60's or 70's, I think the 70's. I am unable to access my brain file on that this second.

In 1982 Prime Minister Trudeau and Finance Minister Chretien along with the Queen signed into effect the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, effectively severing ties with England.

I am unable to think of the word, the group of countries that Britain had it's grip on like Australia and the others (i never took history and have flunked every IQ test for a good reason), and if I remember correctly it was as if Britain said, "Okay you are set free from us, but our finger you will always pheel" It reminded me of those who leave street gangs, they still walk with the tattoo, but are disconnected from the gang. I remember when I did some digging a few years ago on Canada I was mighty surprised.

The word is Commonwealth. And I don't quite get the gang comparison.

The Queen reminds me of a ghost. Gone, but lingering. Hovering still over Canada.

I love Canada. Maybe one day I will live there (dreams are real). I have a plate that came to be (in an odd way) from Canada. It says Victoria, BC, Canada and is a lovely blue plate which matches my Blue Willow set. I'm preparing to just jump on an Amtrak in February, and head north. I'm in California so it would be a nice train ride North. I hear I would have to take a pherry from Seattle to BC. I guess I 'll have to wait and sea.

I live in Victoria, the place where your plate is from. And yes, if you wanted to come to the city you would have to take a ferry from either Seattle or Vancouver. Vancouver and the rest of BC, however, can be accessed from land.

Many things Canadian have found their way to me. Where I live now, there are some Canadians that are in and around. I :!!) it.

My brother is marrying a Canadian gal next September, but I think she is from Ontario or Toronto (doesn't count, altho I will see New Foundland one day). I wonder if Canada would consider a citizenship swap. I'll gladly give her my American-whatever, on the condition that she give me hers. I better hurry and meet her before she sells her house to move to Cali. Maybe unlike most, if I buy, I could have a vacation home in Canada, and Cali and never pay taxes

My desire to go to Canada, possibly live there IF they'll have me has NOTHING to do with President Bush. He's doing his thing, and I"m doing my thing. Like I stated in my other post, since I was 5 while other girls were dreaming of Paris, or wherever, I was dreaming of Canada.

I would have to return to Cali to purchase books. My goodness ... the other day I purchased a book, it was 39.00 and in Canada it was 69.00 or 79.00 :eek: If a book catches my interest I'll pay whatever to own the book short term to receive the information, but to pay almost double what I am able to buy here for half? Wow. I would like to live close to the Northern border so the trip to the bookstore in WA wouldn't be far. Oh yeah, I guess it would have to be close to the pherry. I never believed in phairies till I was told one would definitely have to get me into Canada. :surprised

You can drive into Canada there homeslice. As I said above, a ferry is only required if you want to go to Vancouver Island or the Gulf Islands.

The Canadian dollar is around .80-.85 right now. Those prices would not be nearly as severe anymore. The dollar used to be around .60-.65.

It's cool if Queen is still kickin' when I arrive there. I love green. My love for Canada makes no sense at all, and it doesn't have to. I do love the low-low crime rate. Wow, we Americans could sure learn a lot from yous. I better brush up on my English before my trip :uhh: I red French and English are your country's *- languages and are taught in schools. Sometimes I wonder why America doesn't follow suit and just get over it and make Spanish/English America's languages. Afterall this used to be Mexico.

French is not really taught that much in our schools. I took eight years of it, but it is only required you do one year I think. And it's not in depth at all, I can't speak french worth a damn, even after eight years. It is an official language though, and it is on all of our cereals, beverage containers, laundry detergents et al. It is not, however, on street signs and stuff like that. The only province that is truly bilingual is New Brunswick, where stop signs say both "Stop" and "Arret".

Thank you for asking your question Smurf. I was able to arrive at a conclusion, without compromise, in me mind that has escaped me till now.

!Wait a minute, you are from BC :surprised Please pheel free to correct me on anything that is crooked in my response. If you care to, please email me at Oaracal@aol.com if you are up on custom's laws. I have read some, and all I know is I need to contact some outfit in San Francisco to make sure neither of us (myself and the Mr.) have no border problems.

I was recently married, and we are going to moonhoney in Canada. If he can get across the border it will be wei, and if not then it will be me. Probably just for a few hours if he is unable to pass customs. If you don't "do" email that's cool. Someone will, no problem. If he is unable to get across the border, he'll just have to wait in WA :devil:

I just have to say you have some of the worst spelling and grammar I've ever read. :surprised Oh well.

Hope that helps.

tumor

Dec16-04, 08:12 PM

Gonzolo

Dec16-04, 09:25 PM

I wonder why would anyone come to Canada to live here in this frozen wasteland? Australia,New Zealand would be much better choice, and you have your Quenn still in place.
Except province of Quebec rest of Canada is wild,uncivilized and crude.One thing I like here and my reason for living here is spectacular nature, sadly trees are being cut in most pristine places, oil scraped from thousand of hectares of praries etc, in other words it is going downhill fast.

PS. if you guys decide anyway to come here,learn some karate or kung-fu, because people here are very short tempered and dangerouse and you must be ready to fight those Canadian yahoos!
I have been assaulted verbally and physically here without any provocation and almost beaten recently, since then I carry 10 inch kitchen knife in my backpack all the time! I know it is illegal to carry knife, but I rather be alive!
One more thing; watch for your posessions /valuables, thiefs are everywhere they stole even my old rusted street bike,couple years ago I lost new m.bike(i'm still in shock over loss of that brand new bike :cry: ) my friend was robed twice, and so on and on.

:rofl: So every Canadian should have his 10 inch knife...eh? I'm actually not sure how serious you are here. I probably haven't been in those areas where you use kung-fu, but you won't convince me that Canada is more dangerous than New Zealand, Australia and especially the US. Canada's cold only part of the year. Eastern Canada is equally civillized, Quebec or not. And if the Queen is more in the shadow than in NZ, and Australia, it's in great part because of Canadian bilingualism and multiculralism; she just isn't any more meaningful to the Francophones than any other present random monarch.

xck

Dec17-04, 03:10 AM

Smurf ~ Thank you for your Edit #Tree. Interesting on your (drag) Queen :devil: On your Edit # Four LOLOLOL Thanks :smile:

Gonzolo, thank you very very much for your kind post. warmed my heart..the thought of me zooming around some canadians in cyber space before i get there psychically. :approve: ty.

ionsmith ~ !Wow, thank you very much for the info and the link. I can't wait till i return on Sunday (from ...) to investigate :smile:

EK ~ English is my first language. German should be my second (haven't used it in years) since I took two years of it - love the sound of it.

I taught English within a charter school. ONLY in America :devil: No sheet! It was then I first discovered science, because I had to teach it. It blew me away. I understood it but I had never given it any thought. I loved it. When I discovered we had (we're talking 4th grade level) four states of matter, and in my "teacher's" edition it stated, DO NOT confuse the child with four states of matter, leave PLASMA out of your class ... well it absolutely got the attention of my inner-X-catholic-school-girl and I had to know. I'm swerving in this post...back to Canada, THANK YOU!

Here's a phunny to leave you with. We now have a Pier One Imports shop in town. I went there the other day for the first time looking for Canadian imports. When I asked the clerk for assisstance she look so puzzled. They had none :surprised so I went to the store and stocked up on Canadian Whiskey :wink: (i don't drink alcohol). I am very happy that I found my Canadian imports.

xck

Dec17-04, 03:23 AM

Tumor!

Oh my goodness, if you speak to Canadians the way you post about them ... no wonder Hey, when I was reading your post I felt like decking you :devil: JUST KIDDING o:)

The land of milk and honey? Somewhere in Canada? If it was in the US it would be the land of milk and money, so it must be Canada you were referring to.

Tumor, maybe time to move to Australia, New Zealand, OR next door to Dr. Phil :eek:

I thoroughly enjoyed your post, thanks! :rofl:

Dec17-04, 03:49 AM

Except province of Quebec rest of Canada is wild,uncivilized and crude.

Funny, most would say the opposite is true.

Although I have to say I don't find Quebecers to be crude, uncivilized and wild. But some would.

xck

Dec17-04, 04:07 AM

ek

thank you for "commonwealth" that word completely escaped me :frown: . i think that's a nice word for - i'm entitled to keep my hand on/in your wallet, we do it all the time so it's common" sorta deal. Someone is paying the Queen's electric bills, costumes etc., and I hope it is just the Britts since she is afterall their "pope" in drag. I am probably wrong about that.

I was thinking I had to take a pherry to Canada. I knew WA was below BC :blushing: , sometimes I'm too busy thinking (brain race) to catch the obvious. Yes, I, we, oui, will travel on Amtrak or in our "erg" vehicle. I don't care to visit an island, as it is the mountains that call me - this weekend our usual Cali jaunt, and definitely to Canada in February.

Alaska is what confused me probably. I know we couldn't always drive there. Right? Then again I thought I read somewhere that was part of the path (asia/russia - berriing straits, alaska canada usa/ ) for pre neandertal (?) (the true native americans-mixed in with south/central america etc.) walked in on right? I've not stayed current. I have deviated from Canada topic. From what I understand, only recently (ten years maybe more) we have been able to drive into Alaska. That was my confusion.

Off to find a hominid thread for info since my brain just kicked into overdrive. I leave you with this...yesterday on my way home there was a car in front of me at the stoplight, and I saw the usual fish glyph that usually has jesus name in it, well THIS fish had Darwin's name in it. :rofl: I almost followed the car home to find out where she purchased it, but I decided that wasn't a good idea. :smile:

Smurf

Dec17-04, 09:56 AM

PS. if you guys decide anyway to come here,learn some karate or kung-fu, because people here are very short tempered and dangerouse and you must be ready to fight those Canadian yahoos!
I have been assaulted verbally and physically here without any provocation and almost beaten recently, since then I carry 10 inch kitchen knife in my backpack all the time! I know it is illegal to carry knife, but I rather be alive!
One more thing; watch for your posessions /valuables, thiefs are everywhere they stole even my old rusted street bike,couple years ago I lost new m.bike(i'm still in shock over loss of that brand new bike :cry: ) my friend was robed twice, and so on and on.

I'm trying to be open minded here tumor.... but your messed in the head.

mattmns

Dec17-04, 10:33 AM

rofl tumor. Here in the USA most of us usually carry shotties, or a small handgun, I do at least.

shmoe

Dec17-04, 10:49 AM

10" knife will do nothing but provide a false sense of security. The weapon of choice for a Canadian Yahoo is a hockey stick- you'll never get close enough to use that knife. If by some miracle you do get close enough, make sure you've got your fighting straps securely in place or it will be lights out pretty quick.

Smurf

Dec17-04, 12:37 PM

and be extra carefull of the rare, but lethal, maple syrup bombs used as a shock weapon in downtown Vancouver.

Dec17-04, 10:54 PM

I was thinking I had to take a pherry to Canada. I knew WA was below BC :blushing: , sometimes I'm too busy thinking (brain race) to catch the obvious. Yes, I, we, oui, will travel on Amtrak or in our "erg" vehicle. I don't care to visit an island, as it is the mountains that call me - this weekend our usual Cali jaunt, and definitely to Canada in February.

Alaska is what confused me probably. I know we couldn't always drive there. Right? Then again I thought I read somewhere that was part of the path (asia/russia - berriing straits, alaska canada usa/ ) for pre neandertal (?) (the true native americans-mixed in with south/central america etc.) walked in on right? I've not stayed current. I have deviated from Canada topic. From what I understand, only recently (ten years maybe more) we have been able to drive into Alaska. That was my confusion.

Off to find a hominid thread for info since my brain just kicked into overdrive. I leave you with this...yesterday on my way home there was a car in front of me at the stoplight, and I saw the usual fish glyph that usually has jesus name in it, well THIS fish had Darwin's name in it. :rofl: I almost followed the car home to find out where she purchased it, but I decided that wasn't a good idea. :smile:

You can drive to Alaska. Always could. Just up through British Columbia, across a bit of the Yukon most likely and boom you're in Alaska.

And those darwin fish are all over the place, at least they are here.

And although I do live on an island, it happens to be the biggest island in the Pacific Ocean outside of the Japanese main islands. So it's really only an island in that it's waterlocked. It lacks the island feel because it's self sufficient and has a comparatively large population.

And yes the theory is that people first came to North America via the Bering Strait between Alaska and Russia which freezes over in the winter.

And if you want mountains, then where you really want to go to is Alberta. BC has some mountains, but the Coast Range is not even close to the magnitude of the Rockies.

tumor

Dec18-04, 12:22 AM

I'm trying to be open minded here tumor.... but your messed in the head.
Propably :redface:

Anyway;one more nugett of truth about Canada.
In USA one knows very well not to go alone to the "south or east" side of town,because that is where slums and crime ridden elements live, on the other hand "north or west" part of the city is extremally safe.
In Canada this sharp division is almost non existent,Canada is slowly changing into one big slum and random acts of violence are happenning anywhere regaldless of city area.There is just no place to hide here.
If I had some cash I would build hut in the forest far from Canadian rabble/sheeple, but since I'm stuck here my knife :!!) is my only defence.

tumor

Dec18-04, 12:36 AM

And although I do live on an island, it happens to be the biggest island in the Pacific Ocean outside of the Japanese main islands.

I don't think so...check your atlas,New Guinea is 10 x bigger than Vancouver Island,even New Zealand or Sakhalin islands are much bigger.
Indonesia and Philiphnes are on Pacific Ocean too.
As to the size Vancouver Island is on the bottom of the list.

Smurf

Dec18-04, 02:07 AM

Anyway;one more nugett of truth about Canada.
In USA one knows very well not to go alone to the "south or east" side of town,because that is where slums and crime ridden elements live, on the other hand "north or west" part of the city is extremally safe.
In Canada this sharp division is almost non existent,Canada is slowly changing into one big slum and random acts of violence are happenning anywhere regaldless of city area.There is just no place to hide here.
If I had some cash I would build hut in the forest far from Canadian rabble/sheeple, but since I'm stuck here my knife :!!) is my only defence.
I stand by my previous statement

Dec18-04, 02:45 AM

I don't think so...check your atlas,New Guinea is 10 x bigger than Vancouver Island,even New Zealand or Sakhalin islands are much bigger.
Indonesia and Philiphnes are on Pacific Ocean too.
As to the size Vancouver Island is on the bottom of the list.

I don't need to check an atlas bud.

New Guinea, Indonesia and the Phillipines are not in the Pacific Ocean. Neither is Sakhalin Island, not even close.

New Zealand is close, but it is generally considered to be in the Tasman Sea. Although a case could be made for it being in the Pacific.

Vancouver Island is on the bottom of the list? Do you realize how stupid that statement is? Just by your posts in this thread alone you sound like an idiot but really, are you that dim? There are hundreds and hundreds of islands in the Pacific. Check your atlas.

Dec18-04, 02:47 AM

Propably :redface:

Anyway;one more nugett of truth about Canada.
In USA one knows very well not to go alone to the "south or east" side of town,because that is where slums and crime ridden elements live, on the other hand "north or west" part of the city is extremally safe.
In Canada this sharp division is almost non existent,Canada is slowly changing into one big slum and random acts of violence are happenning anywhere regaldless of city area.There is just no place to hide here.
If I had some cash I would build hut in the forest far from Canadian rabble/sheeple, but since I'm stuck here my knife :!!) is my only defence.

I'm sorry, but what is this drivel?

You make Canada sound like Iraq.

You go around with a knife? Are you some kind of psycho?

Aren't you from some other country anyway? Why haven't you been deported yet?

And what, exactly, is rabble/sheeple?

Dec18-04, 02:50 AM

I stand by my previous statement

The funny thing is the other guys were joking about hockey sticks and maple syrup bombs but this guy is serious.

I'm a little freaked out there's guys like him walking around with a knife. Good thing he's 4000 km away.

Smurf

Dec18-04, 02:58 AM

tumor

Dec18-04, 02:59 AM

The funny thing is the other guys were joking about hockey sticks and maple syrup bombs but this guy is serious.

I'm a little freaked out there's guys like him walking around with a knife. Good thing he's 4000 km away.

Did you read my other posts ? I have knife with me for purerly defensife measures. I have been almost beaten and assaulted here few times.What my suppose to do? Just 2 weeks ago some punk wanted to start fight with me at the Bus terminal, of course I went to the security and they dealt with him.
You are smart because you have car but try to use transit late at night!

Smurf

Dec18-04, 03:00 AM

You are smart because you have car but try to use transit late at night!
Did it today. Got a girls number on the way.

tumor

Dec18-04, 03:11 AM

Did it today. Got a girls number on the way.

Yeah right! If you were so bold, you would not be spending so much time on the internet.

Maybe even if she gave you her phone number, she propably was scared like **** of you and almost called police and accused you of stalking/raping.
By the way; flirting is not known in Canada.I have tried it few times and gave up on that- only money talks here not romance.

Smurf

Dec18-04, 03:19 AM

flirting is not known in Canada.I have tried it few times and gave up on that- only money talks here not romance.
Ahh the true colors are starting to show. You're sour because you can't get a girlfriend!

Dec18-04, 03:22 AM

Did you read my other posts ? I have knife with me for purerly defensife measures. I have been almost beaten and assaulted here few times.What my suppose to do? Just 2 weeks ago some punk wanted to start fight with me at the Bus terminal, of course I went to the security and they dealt with him.
You are smart because you have car but try to use transit late at night!

Where are you actually from and why are you in Canada and why are you pissing all over the whole country?

I think you're one of those disturbed souls who takes a gun to school and kills everybody, sounds like it at least.

Smurf

Dec18-04, 03:23 AM

I think you're one of those disturbed souls who takes a gun to school and kills everybody, sounds like it at least.
Unfortunatly our gun laws are lax enough that this fool could get his hands on one if he wanted.

Dec18-04, 03:23 AM

Yeah right! If you were so bold, you would not be spending so much time on the internet.

Maybe even if she gave you her phone number, she propably was scared like **** of you and almost called police and accused you of stalking/raping.
By the way; flirting is not known in Canada.I have tried it few times and gave up on that- only money talks here not romance.

Yes. Because it's impossible that the girl was genuinely interested. She must have thought he was going to rape her on the bus. Of course, what was I thinking...

Just because you're ugly and can't get girls doesn't mean others can't

tumor

Dec18-04, 03:25 AM

Where are you actually from and why are you in Canada and why are you pissing all over the whole country?

I think you're one of those disturbed souls who takes a gun to school and kills everybody, sounds like it at least.

Oh! now you mad at me because you have found out that I was right about all that Pacific Ocean stuff right?

tumor

Dec18-04, 03:29 AM

Yes. Because it's impossible that the girl was genuinely interested. She must have thought he was going to rape her on the bus. Of course, what was I thinking...

Just because you're ugly and can't get girls doesn't mean others can't

I'M TELLING YOU MAN IT IS SO HARD TO MEET GIRL ON THE BUS,BECAUSE ONLY LOWLIFES USE PUBLIC TRANSIT( I CAN'T DRIVE CAR BECAUSE OF MY ILLNES, WOULD BE GREAT IF I COULD :frown: )

That girl you met,must one of them or some crazy chick be carefull.

Dec18-04, 03:48 AM

Oh! now you mad at me because you have found out that I was right about all that Pacific Ocean stuff right?

Actually I'm right and you are horribly wrong.

Bottom of the list?

:rofl:

You're a smart one there pal.

Smurf

Dec18-04, 03:50 AM

That girl you met,must one of them or some crazy chick be carefull.
well her skin was rather dark, there must've been something wrong with her...
Wow.. I almost called her, thank you tumor, you saved my life.

check

Dec18-04, 03:59 AM

I'M TELLING YOU MAN IT IS SO HARD TO MEET GIRL ON THE BUS,BECAUSE ONLY LOWLIFES USE PUBLIC TRANSIT( I CAN'T DRIVE CAR BECAUSE OF MY ILLNES, WOULD BE GREAT IF I COULD :frown: )

Tumor, are you serious? I mean honestly, this is one of the dumbest comments that I have ever read.

And as for "flirting not being known in Canada?" Seriously Tumor...that just makes me sad for you.

tumor

Dec18-04, 01:33 PM

Tumor, are you serious? I mean honestly, this is one of the dumbest comments that I have ever read.

And as for "flirting not being known in Canada?" Seriously Tumor...that just makes me sad for you.

I'm serious more than you think.Not only people don't know how to flirt, they don't have any good manners here.(ever been on toronto subway) I advice you to take it once in a while to experience wild west(wear some old clothes because everything is sticky and dirt covered on the subway trains),
and try to avoid eye conntact, people here get mad quickly.
Truth hurts, I know, but you guys in the US have to know that myth of friendly,liberal and prosperous Canada is just a myth.

revelator

Dec18-04, 01:52 PM

Maybe even if she gave you her phone number, she propably was scared like **** of you and almost called police and accused you of stalking/raping.

I don't think Canadians are this paranoid.

By the way; flirting is not known in Canada.I have tried it few times and gave up on that- only money talks here not romance.

That's nonsense.
and try to avoid eye conntact, people here get mad quickly

So is that.

I'M TELLING YOU MAN IT IS SO HARD TO MEET GIRL ON THE BUS,BECAUSE ONLY LOWLIFES USE PUBLIC TRANSIT

You calling me a low-life there buddy?

Gonzolo

Dec18-04, 02:16 PM

...What my suppose to do?...

1. Get rid of the knife.
2. Stop bashing Canada (or anyone).
3. Stop smoking pot.
4. Learn self-defense.

In that order.

Moonbear

Dec18-04, 02:25 PM

I'M TELLING YOU MAN IT IS SO HARD TO MEET GIRL ON THE BUS,BECAUSE ONLY LOWLIFES USE PUBLIC TRANSIT( I CAN'T DRIVE CAR BECAUSE OF MY ILLNES, WOULD BE GREAT IF I COULD :frown: )

That girl you met,must one of them or some crazy chick be carefull.

It's so hard to pick up women on a bus? Compared to what? What sort of response do you think you'd get trying to meet them while driving your car around? And if you think only lowlifes take public transit, then why do you want a lowlife woman? Or are you saying you're the lowlife? Generally, unless you regularly run into the same woman on a bus day after day and are able to strike up a pleasant conversation, she probably will think you're creepy to come right out and ask for a date.

I'm not sure what this has to do with Canada though. Even in places where public transit is the primary transportation (NYC or Toronto or almost any city in Europe), it's still not a likely place to have much luck meeting people, they're too busy getting where they're going to be thinking about introductions and conversations with random strangers.

Moonbear

Dec18-04, 02:38 PM

I'm serious more than you think.Not only people don't know how to flirt, they don't have any good manners here.(ever been on toronto subway) I advice you to take it once in a while to experience wild west(wear some old clothes because everything is sticky and dirt covered on the subway trains),
and try to avoid eye conntact, people here get mad quickly.
Truth hurts, I know, but you guys in the US have to know that myth of friendly,liberal and prosperous Canada is just a myth.

I have been on the Toronto subway, late at night no less, and thought it was surprisingly clean for a subway. The people on the subway seemed pretty normal to me, quite a few were drunk considering the hour, but nothing to set off alarm bells in my mind. I even wound up in Toronto's red light district, and even the people there were pretty friendly...sure, I passed a few who I gave a wide berth, but generally, it was all far more civilized than what I've seen in some US cities (not all US cities are bad either).

My experience in Canada has been that I've always been greeted by people with far better manners than I encounter in US cities. I've only been in Canadian cities, so can't speak for smaller towns, suburbs, etc. Then again, you reap what you sow. If you walk around angry all the time, you're going to attract other angry people looking for a fight, if you walk around with a smile and say hello to people you pass, while you catch some off-guard, you'll generally get at least a smile or nod in return.

Smurf

Dec18-04, 02:44 PM

I'm not sure what this has to do with Canada though. Even in places where public transit is the primary transportation (NYC or Toronto or almost any city in Europe), it's still not a likely place to have much luck meeting people, they're too busy getting where they're going to be thinking about introductions and conversations with random strangers.
I don't know about that. When I was in Bordeaux I used buses to go everywhere and there was always some nut wanting to strike up a conversation.

Smurf

Dec18-04, 02:45 PM

I'M TELLING YOU MAN IT IS SO HARD TO MEET GIRL ON THE BUS,BECAUSE ONLY LOWLIFES USE PUBLIC TRANSIT( I CAN'T DRIVE CAR BECAUSE OF MY ILLNES, WOULD BE GREAT IF I COULD)
I always thought that only lowlives didn't use public transport because they don't care about the enviroment.

Moonbear

Dec18-04, 02:46 PM

I don't know about that. When I was in Bordeaux I used buses to go everywhere and there was always some nut wanting to strike up a conversation.

Well, yeah, there's always a nut trying to strike up a conversation, but that's part of the point. If you're trying to strike up a conversation on public transportation, anywhere, it's likely to get you labeled as a nut.

check

Dec18-04, 09:04 PM

tumor

Dec18-04, 11:11 PM

. I even wound up in Toronto's red light district, and even the people there were pretty friendly

Now that I have to know: what red light district in Toronto are we talking about here? You must be mistaken BIG time.Canadians are biggest prudes and sexually repressed people in the World, there is no red light district in Toronto,only back alleys sleaze.

Moonbear

Dec18-04, 11:33 PM

Now that I have to know: what red light district in Toronto are we talking about here? You must be mistaken BIG time.Canadians are biggest prudes and sexually repressed people in the World, there is no red light district in Toronto,only back alleys sleaze.

Are you sure we're talking about the same Canada? Is there another one somewhere? Really, there is a red light district, this was even confirmed by one of the locals I met up with while there...a cousin of a friend, who was rather shocked I had wound up in that part of the city and apologized profusely for not warning me ahead...LOL! There was a rather sleezy motel (that I was staying in...the exchange rate hadn't clicked when I booked the room to realize just how cheap it was, but I didn't want to pay for the $200/night rooms near the convention center) and plenty of street walkers (they really weren't going to bother a woman though, so I was fine). Definitely a red light district! It's just past the part of town with all the gay bars...it was a very interesting walk back from the convention center at night...first you pass men wearing boas, then women wearing, um, not much.

Canadians, sexually repressed? I don't think so. Goodness, I really don't think so! The Canadians I know are pretty open about sexuality!

I loved Toronto! What a great city! Though, so far, my favorite is a toss up between Vancouver and Ottawa (I loved that Ottawa still has a farmer's market, everything there was so pretty, and such good restaurants...great restaurants in Vancouver too!). Next year I'll be in Quebec City. I'm looking forward to that too. I haven't really been in Quebec yet. Only drove through Montreal, never had time to stop and enjoy it.

Tumor, have you bothered to cross the border and visit the US? Do you know what you're comparing it to?