forgotten genius Nicola Tesla

[Leon W Zhang]

Nicola Tesla was undoubtedly one of the greatest geniuses of 20 century. His contributions to Electrical Engineering field were amazing for the entire world. But, only a handful people know his name. Although he was a profound genius, he was a forgotten person in history. Why?

[Pengwuino]

I think he's known on the level of thomas edison... I've heard of plenty of people speak of Tesla so I don't believe he is that forgotten...

[russ_watters]

Most people with knowledge of the subject know he's on about the same level as Edison. It's pretty much just conspiracy theorists who think he's unknown to everyone else. So what's the point of this thread...?

[carlz]

Personally, I read quite abit about him and think he is a much better engineer than edison.

Edison is more of a experiment and try an error type of person while Nicola Tesla was a theorist who worked his stuff out first before testing the results.

If you read his biography, he has no business knowledge and was too trusting, that lead to his downfall. Edison on the other hand, knew business, thus was able to outshine Nicola Tesla. Overal, I still admire Nicola Tesla more.

Somehow, i feel I am typing nonsense... :P

[Ouabache]

I've known about Tesla for awhile, at least since high school when we were introduced to a Tesla Coil (http://tesladownunder.iinet.net.au/Tesla_7ft.JPG) in physics. In college, I learned he was honored by naming an SI unit of magnetic flux density (http://www.teslasociety.com/teslaunit.htm), after him.

Since then I've borrowed a video from the library about Tesla. It portrayed his life exactly as carlz mentioned. Tesla (http://www.lucidcafe.com/library/96jul/tesla.html) was a physicist, an electrical engineer and inventor. He was more of a scientist than Edison whom he admired as a youth. Nicola was such a genius, he was able to formulate complete designs just in his mind without committing them to paper.

[carlz]

Something that's quite disturbing though. When experimenting with AC, he tried to establish the fact that it takes much less current than DC to be fatal. In order to prove his point, he paid street boys to bring him stray dogs to test his AC experiments. All ended dead of course.

He has the typical 'mad scientist' image with him sitting in that huge room with the gigantic tesla coil in the middle shooting arcs meters long with loud cracking noises.

[sid_galt]

Something that's quite disturbing though. When experimenting with AC, he tried to establish the fact that it takes much less current than DC to be fatal. In order to prove his point, he paid street boys to bring him stray dogs to test his AC experiments. All ended dead of course.


That was Edison. He was trying to promote his DC system over Tesla's AC system.


He has the typical 'mad scientist' image with him sitting in that huge room with the gigantic tesla coil in the middle shooting arcs meters long with loud cracking noises.

Really? I find that to be cool.

[russ_watters]

Personally, I read quite abit about him and think he is a much better engineer than edison.

Edison is more of a experiment and try an error type of person while Nicola Tesla was a theorist who worked his stuff out first before testing the results.

If you read his biography, he has no business knowledge and was too trusting, that lead to his downfall. Edison on the other hand, knew business, thus was able to outshine Nicola Tesla. Overal, I still admire Nicola Tesla more. Those little differences led to Edison having much more financial and inventing success than Tesla, which would be why not as many people outside of engineering know much about him.

[FredGarvin]

Everyone knows of the hair band Tesla...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_(band)

...he was able to formulate complete designs just in his mind without committing them to paper.Those tend to be the hardest people to work with (in my experience).

[Serbian.matematika]

Every child in Europe knows about Nikola Tesla.
As long as there are Serbs on this Planet Nikola Tesla will never be forgotten!
Every Serb child is tutored to follow Nikola Tesla's footsteps.
*****My great great grandfather and Nikola Tesla were sitting in the same classroom, Yugoslavia.

[Leon W Zhang]

Every child in Europe knows about Nikola Tesla.
As long as there are Serbs on this Planet Nikola Tesla will never be forgotten!
Every Serb child is tutored to follow Nikola Tesla's footsteps.
*****My great great grandfather and Nikola Tesla were sitting in the same classroom, Yugoslavia.
Thanks for your reply. Tesla was born in Croatia but he was a Serbian, right? I have been intereseted in his biography and career. Do you know any other famous Serbian scientists and inventors ? If so, can you share it with me?

[Leon W Zhang]

Every child in Europe knows about Nikola Tesla.
As long as there are Serbs on this Planet Nikola Tesla will never be forgotten!
Every Serb child is tutored to follow Nikola Tesla's footsteps.
*****My great great grandfather and Nikola Tesla were sitting in the same classroom, Yugoslavia.
Again Serbian.matematika,
Since you are a serb, you might know the standard of some Universities Tesla studied. When I read the biography of Tesla, I found that he finished his bachelor degree at Austrian Polytechnic Institute and his doctorate degree at University of Prague. What do you think of the standard of these Universities at that time? Are these Universities still famous in Europe?

[sjezdci]

As for last question, I don't know answer. As for first, Tesla's poor recognition in US lies in his conflict with Edison. Edison was great businessman and I would not go any further than that. Even his greatest "invention" light bulb was originally patented by Canadian from Toronto and bought by Edison to be further perfected and comercialized. Money is primary source of Edison's recognition, same like someone might refer to Bill Gates as father of modern operating system nowdays.
Conflict between Edison and Tesla started when Edison refused to pay Tesla agreed ammount for extra work he put in on one of the projects when Tesla was working in Edison's labs. When Tesla went on his own and finally succeded to push through superior AC system of power generation and transport that is work horse of todays economy, Edison saw him as threat and used his emense influnce in scientific and business comunnity at the time to crush Tesla. This campaign against Tesla resonates even to this day, for example Smithsonian refused to fully acknowledge Tesla' contribution to science untill year 2000!!! (http://www.rense.com/general6/tesla.htm) On the bottom of this page you will find link to wonderfull site about Tesla made and hosted by PBS! Even that AC system was clearly far superior to DC system used by Edison, there were places in US that were still powered by DC long after WWII! Bitter from batle with Edison and when Nobel prize was awarded to Marcony instead of him for invention of radio, Tesla closed to himself, and never elaborated his inventions in great detail anymore to anyone.

[ZapperZ]

With a number of people citing that they know about Tesla, and with the PBS documentary already shown several times, this then comes back to the question being asked towards the beginning of this thread that Leon W Zhang seems to have ignored - where is the evidence that Tesla is "forgotten in history"?

Clearly, the discussion presented above, and the fact that every time someone quote a magnetic field strength in SI units, his name is being invoked.

Zz.

[sjezdci]

but downplayed. Glorifying businessman as scientist and downplaying genius as madman is even worse.

[ZapperZ]

but downplayed. Glorifying businessman as scientist and downplaying genius as madman is even worse.

But downplayed by whom? Clearly he isn't forgotten nor downplayed by physicists and engineers. Downplayed by the general public? Well, is this NEW and unusual? I could cite and rattle off a number of important names that the public are utterly ignorant about. Would they know the only person who has ever won the physics Nobel Prize twice and arguably the person who has made the greatest impact on their lives today?

The general public isn't a good gauge on such a thing.

Zz.

[Pravoslavan]

Thanks for your reply. Tesla was born in Croatia but he was a Serbian, right? I have been intereseted in his biography and career. Do you know any other famous Serbian scientists and inventors ? If so, can you share it with me?

Yes, Tesla was proud Serb, his father was Serbian priest
It will be my pleasure to share informations with you....
There is a lot of scientists from Serbia.

Milutin Milankovic - geophysicist, best known for his theory of ice ages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milutin_Milankovic

Mihajlo Pupin - physicist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihajlo_Pupin

Mileva Maric - Albert Einsteins wife, great mathematician
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mileva_Maric

Ogneslav Kostovic Stepanovic - invent first plastic in the world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogneslav_Kostovic_Stepanovic

[Serbian.matematika]

Pravoslavan, thank you bro.

[sjezdci]

by Smithsonian for example. If you ask avarage kid in US, who was Edison he will reply, great scientist, invented light bulb. Same question with Tesla's name will remain kid puzzled. Same kid will use Tesla's inventions several time a day, every day, with misguided belief that he has to thank for those things in life to people like Edison. And sad truth is that if Edison had his way, electricity would be play toy only for those that could afford DC generator in the basement and heavy copper wires throughout the house. I could go on on importance and quantity of Tesla's inventions, but one just has to read all his patents to realize that he was giant of his time. And the best part is, if you read his biography carefully you would realize that he never did it for the money. To him money was only means to do research. He believed in giving his inventions to humanity to make it better. His idea's of death rays and other weapons were instigated by hope to make wars absolete and imposible. Only thing he was seeking in life was recognition, and he died without it. What was supposed to be his biggest achievement, to provide world with means of transporting energy without wires and obstacles, was torn down by angry mob with pitch forks, due to their belief that he is sending secrets to Germans. I guess in this world one has to steal and grab anything he can to receive recognition in society. That is shamefull part of the past, and like any other dark spots in their history, US kids are shielded from, this one too is unknown to them. Being recognized only in tight scientific and engineering community is not doing justice to Nikola Tesla.

[Ivan Seeking]

If we go outside of the crowd of science and engineering types, I would bet that very few people could cite any of Tesla's actual contributions to science and engineering. The most common citations would be for the fictionalized version of history - anti-gravity devices and conspiracy theories.

[zoobyshoe]

What's bothering me most about this thread is the erroneous notion that Edison was a good businessman. He was actually a business failure, over and over. He was inept at marketing his own inventions, although he tried very hard. His competitors always came up with better versions that the consumer prefered.

His one big financial success, the iron-nickle battery, wasn't a famous invention and most have never heard of it. Edison was great at PR, though, and could always eventually find financial backing.

Edison is still somewhat more well known, simply because his three big inventions are easier to grasp. It's much more difficult for the average man to appreciate why an induction motor or alternating current distribution is impressive when compared to something spectacular like recorded sound.
In the past 30 years, though, Tesla has been undergoing a huge resurgence in popularity and it's no longer true that he languishes in obscurity while Edison basks in the limelight.

[ZapperZ]

by Smithsonian for example. If you ask avarage kid in US, who was Edison he will reply, great scientist, invented light bulb. Same question with Tesla's name will remain kid puzzled. Same kid will use Tesla's inventions several time a day, every day, with misguided belief that he has to thank for those things in life to people like Edison. And sad truth is that if Edison had his way, electricity would be play toy only for those that could afford DC generator in the basement and heavy copper wires throughout the house. I could go on on importance and quantity of Tesla's inventions, but one just has to read all his patents to realize that he was giant of his time. And the best part is, if you read his biography carefully you would realize that he never did it for the money. To him money was only means to do research. He believed in giving his inventions to humanity to make it better. His idea's of death rays and other weapons were instigated by hope to make wars absolete and imposible. Only thing he was seeking in life was recognition, and he died without it. What was supposed to be his biggest achievement, to provide world with means of transporting energy without wires and obstacles, was torn down by angry mob with pitch forks, due to their belief that he is sending secrets to Germans. I guess in this world one has to steal and grab anything he can to receive recognition in society. That is shamefull part of the past, and like any other dark spots in their history, US kids are shielded from, this one too is unknown to them. Being recognized only in tight scientific and engineering community is not doing justice to Nikola Tesla.

Then I was right. People are using the "general public" as the measuring stick. I put it to you that you should be MORE concerned that almost half of the general public does not know that the electron is smaller than the nucleus and surrounds the nucleus. I would be more concerned about the scientific illiteracy of the general public than the fact that they didn't know anything about Tesla. Their ignorance about Tesla is only a symptom of a bigger problem. Besides, I could easily complain that the Smithsonian also did not do justice to a genius and giant like Bardeen! Would you say that you know all of his accomplishment?

There is nothing new here. The public has always been ignorant of many important people in science and technology.

Zz.

[russ_watters]

If we go outside of the crowd of science and engineering types, I would bet that very few people could cite any of Tesla's actual contributions to science and engineering. The most common citations would be for the fictionalized version of history - anti-gravity devices and conspiracy theories. ....and that's largely the fault of crackpots and science fiction writers.

[scepan]

I would like to reply on the question from Leon W Zhang about the Universities Tesla was studding. University in Graz, Austria, is still very respectful institution. It has a great tradition and the quality of studies are highly rated.

Another thing I would explain is the origins of Tesla. He was Serbian from Austria, and not from Croatia. That time, that region was a part of Austrian empire and had nothing to do with Croatia, that did not exists till 10 years ago. So, he was an Austrian citizen with Serbian origins, or Serbian nationality (to call it like that). Today, that region is located in Croatia, so that is the reason that you can find that he was a "Serb from Croatia", which was not correct in that time. But, as he said (or, at least how you can find somewhere) he claimed that at the first place he is a citizen of the world.

Just to add one more thing about Tesla (I am not sure if anybody mention that). There was a dispute about the patent for radio. As we know, Marcony was the person that was proclaimed as the person that invented the radio. But, after many year the court decided that that was not true and the right to be the first person was given to Tesla. Unfortunately, he was not there to receive that honor, since he died before it.

[Astronuc]

I believe Croatia (Hrvatska) has has periodic independence throughout the last 1100 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia#History

Croatia eventually became a strong independent kingdom under king Tomislav in 925, but in 1102 the Croatians ended a decade-long dynastic struggle by agreeing to submit themselves to Hungarian authority.

By the mid-1400s, the Hungarian kingdom was gravely hurt by the Ottoman expansion as much of the mountainous country now known as Bosnia and Herzegovina fell to the Turks. At the same time, Dalmatia became mostly Venetian. Dubrovnik was a city-state that was firstly Byzantine (Roman) and Venetian, but later, unlike other Dalmatian city-states, it became independent as Republic of Dubrovnik, even if it was often under the suzerainty of neighboring powers.

The Battle of Mohács in 1526 led the Croatian Parliament to invite the Habsburgs, under Ferdinand I, to assume control over Croatia. Habsburg rule eventually did prove to be successful in thwarting the Ottomans, and by the 18th century, much of Croatia was free of Turkish control. The odd crescent shape of the Croatian lands remained as a mark, more or less, of the frontier to the Ottoman advance into Europe. Istria, Dalmatia and Dubrovnik all eventually passed to the Habsburg Monarchy between 1797 and 1815.

Following World War I and the demise of Austria-Hungary, Croatia joined the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (which became Yugoslavia in 1929). Yugoslavia was invaded during World War II and Croatia was turned into a fascist puppet-state named the Independent State of Croatia. After the defeat of the Axis powers, Yugoslavia became a federal socialist state under the strong hand of Josip Broz Tito.

Although Croatia declared its independence from Yugoslavia in 1991,

See also - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_State_of_Croatia -

Other sources seem to confirm that Croatia, or most of which is now Croatia, has has some level of autonomy or ethnic/territorial identity for some 1100 years.

[Pravoslavan]

Please Astronuc.... dont post about history, we are talking about Nikola Tesla. I can post the bunch of proofs that Croatia was never independent except during the World War II when it was nazi country, allies with Germany. Croatia declared its independence from Yugoslavia in 1991. But we can continue on some other forum if you want to.... this is thread about Tesla and physics forum.

[Astronuc]

Nicola Tesla was undoubtedly one of the greatest geniuses of 20 century. His contributions to Electrical Engineering field were amazing for the entire world. But, only a handful people know his name. Although he was a profound genius, he was a forgotten person in history. Why? Along the lines of what others have posted, particularly Fred Garvin - refer to a biography. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

Also, having been a member of IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers), I can say that there are 10's of thousands of EE's who know and appreciate the work of Tesla, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_Nikola_Tesla_Award

As to why he is not more well known to the public, that is probably due to the fact that he was overshadowed by Thomas Edison (who founded a predecessor of General Electric) and George Westinghouse (founder of the Westinghouse Electric Corp). Westinghouse hired Tesla briefly.

However . . . in the late 1880s, Tesla and Edison became adversaries in part due to Edison's promotion of direct current (DC) for electric power distribution over the more efficient alternating current advocated by Tesla. As a result of the "War of Currents," Edison and Westinghouse were almost bankrupt, so in 1897, Tesla released Westinghouse from contract, providing Westinghouse a break from Tesla's patent royalties. from Wikipedia article.

Then in later years,
In June 1902, Tesla's lab operations were moved to Wardenclyffe from Houston Street. The tower was finally dismantled for scrap during wartime. Newspapers of the time labeled Wardenclyffe "Tesla's million-dollar folly." In 1904, the US Patent Office reversed its decision and awarded Guglielmo Marconi the patent for radio. Tesla began his fight to re-acquire the radio patent. On his 50th birthday in 1906, Tesla demonstrated his 200 hp (150 kW) 16,000 rpm Bladeless Turbine. During 1910-1911 at the Waterside Power Station in New York, several of his bladeless turbine engines were tested at 100-5000 hp. Later in 1907, Marconi was awarded the Nobel Prize for radio. Tesla was deeply resentful. In 1915, Tesla filed a lawsuit against Marconi attempting, unsuccessfully, to obtain a court injunction against the claims of Marconi. Around 1916, Tesla filed for bankruptcy because he owed so much in back taxes. He was living in poverty.

That pretty much explains why Tesla is not well know to those outside of EE.

[kleinwolf]

Quote : Due mainly to the paranoid schizophrenia he picked up in his late thirties, he was completely ignored in the scientific circles. Many years later, a magnetic unit tesla was given name in his honor. Interestingly enough, many books still refuse to use this unit.

[Astronuc]

Another point - the recognition given to someone often has more to do with commercial success than technical achievement.

Just look at the invention of light bulb - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb

The invention of the light bulb is usually attributed in Britain to Joseph Wilson Swan and in the United States to Thomas Alva Edison (who first marketed the device successfully). So in the US, the general population associates the invention of the light bulb with Edison, regardless of what others had achieved before or concurrently.

[zoobyshoe]

Please Astronuc.... dont post about history, we are talking about Nikola Tesla. I can post the bunch of proofs that Croatia was never independent except during the World War II when it was nazi country, allies with Germany. Croatia declared its independence from Yugoslavia in 1991. But we can continue on some other forum if you want to.... this is thread about Tesla and physics forum.
I asked Astronuc to clear up what had been said about Croatia not exisiting till ten years ago, since he knows alot of Geographical history. I don't think it's erroneous to say Tesla was born in Croatia, and it is misleading to say he was born in Austria just because Croatia was under Austro-Hungarian rule at the time. That region has been called Croatia for a very long time, not just since ten years ago.

[Pravoslavan]

I agree.... Croatia existing long time ago, but it was not independent country. Since Tesla was born, that part of teritory changed name a lot of times and it can be very confusing. Tesla was born when it was Austro-Hungarian Empire, then it was "Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians", then "Kingdom Jugoslavia", then "SFR Jugoslavija", then "Republic Of Serbian Krajina" and now is Croatia...... tomorow will be European Union or who knows. Doesn`t matter in this thread....

I think that he was completely ignored in the scientific circles because they could not understand him. I`m sure that future will show how Tesla was far from the time. They shadowed him because he didnt care about the money, and of course, money was the most important thing for Edison and Marconi.

[zoobyshoe]

I think that he was completely ignored in the scientific circles because they could not understand him.
I don't think he was "ignored" in scientific circles at all. He didn't present himself as a physicist but as an engineer. My understanding is that the stuff he did publish was well recieved. People were very interested in him. He was frequently interviewed by newspaper reporters for feature articles. As a younger man he frequently gave lecture demonstrations and these were always a success. I've read three different biographies of him, as well as his own little autobiography. Tesla was on the cover of Time magazine in 1931.

[ZapperZ]

I think that he was completely ignored in the scientific circles

Can you show supporting evidence to back this statement?

Zz.

[sjezdci]

Gents, original post is more or less answered. As for Bardeen, I don't know much about him, primarily since I don't have superconductors in my home(yet). Thanks for pointing him out though, as I might need some reading on superconductivity. Although he certanly is great as thousands of other people that have made contribution to what we have today, Tesla's inventions are surrounding us on every step, we could not miss them if we try.Comparative quantitization of ones contribution is hard if not impossible, even if we agree on what makes one a great scientist. I would not further engage in this discussion as it is pointless. Lets just conclude that in some point we agree to disagree and in some we do agree.

[Ivan Seeking]

....and that's largely the fault of crackpots and science fiction writers.

...and schools. If not for my optional physics courses, I don't think I ever would have heard of Tesla until well after high school; and then through technical pursuits.

[Ivan Seeking]

Note also that the Tesla myths are not new.
In America, Tesla's fame paralleled that of any other inventor or scientist in history and in popular culture. His name became a byword for innovation and practical achievement. He was deemed a "magician" who conjured up technical feats. After his demonstration of wireless communication in 1893 and after being the victor in the "War of Currents", he was widely respected as America's greatest electrical engineer. Much of his early work pioneered modern electrical engineering and many of his discoveries were of groundbreaking importance. In his later years, Tesla was regarded as a mad scientist, and he ended his life impoverished and forgotten. [4][5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

not to mention stuff like this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tesla_colorado_444px.jpg
and this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BrochureWardenclyffe_.PNG

So it's not really fair to peg this on crackpottery entirely. Tesla was a bit of a myth maker not only by design, but also as a consequence of his revolutionary work.

[ZapperZ]

Gents, original post is more or less answered. As for Bardeen, I don't know much about him, primarily since I don't have superconductors in my home(yet). Thanks for pointing him out though, as I might need some reading on superconductivity. Although he certanly is great as thousands of other people that have made contribution to what we have today, Tesla's inventions are surrounding us on every step, we could not miss them if we try.Comparative quantitization of ones contribution is hard if not impossible, even if we agree on what makes one a great scientist. I would not further engage in this discussion as it is pointless. Lets just conclude that in some point we agree to disagree and in some we do agree.

I think you have just proved my point. Bardeen may have won his second Nobel prize for the BCS theory of superconductivity, but his first Nobel prize was for the invention of the TRANSISTOR, along with Brittain and Shockley. And considering that this is in an Electrical Engineering forum, I don't think I need to explain anymore why this invention is as significant as any in terms of shaping the world that we see today.

I could have easily complained that Bardeen is a "forgotten" genius that most people, even "experts" in engineering and science are not aware of.

Zz.

[Pravoslavan]

Zapperz ... I agree with this :

http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tradio.txt

Tesla was ignored by the US War Department when he told them had been working on some form of teleforce weapon, or death ray. But when he wound up dead in his apartment a few days later, they classified his documents Top Secret. (Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#Death_and_afterwards))

Tesla's critique in the announcement was the opening clash between him and modern experimental physics. Tesla may have viewed his principles in such a manner as to not be in conflict with other modern theories (besides Einstein's). Tesla's theory is ignored by some researchers (and mainly disregaurded by physicists).
http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Nikola_Tesla

Tesla was clearly ahead of his time, a problem which would haunt his entire career. His inventions and patents for remote operation of robotic devices, for instance, were stunningly advanced but largely ignored at the time. The military inexplicably failed to understand the usefulness of remote-controlled attack vehicles and torpedoes until after Tesla's patents had expired. Even then, they began researching it over from scratch, rather than working with his established techniques.
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/mad-science/nikola-tesla/

Especially ignoble, in that after his death, Nikola Tesla was pretty much ignored by historians for decades, while Edison was given whole library shelves of praise.
http://www.davearcher.com/Machines.html

[ZapperZ]

Zapperz ... I agree with this :
http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tradio.txt
Tesla was ignored by the US War Department when he told them had been working on some form of teleforce weapon, or death ray. But when he wound up dead in his apartment a few days later, they classified his documents Top Secret. (Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#Death_and_afterwards))
Tesla's critique in the announcement was the opening clash between him and modern experimental physics. Tesla may have viewed his principles in such a manner as to not be in conflict with other modern theories (besides Einstein's). Tesla's theory is ignored by some researchers (and mainly disregaurded by physicists).
http://peswiki.com/index.php/PowerPedia:Nikola_Tesla
Tesla was clearly ahead of his time, a problem which would haunt his entire career. His inventions and patents for remote operation of robotic devices, for instance, were stunningly advanced but largely ignored at the time. The military inexplicably failed to understand the usefulness of remote-controlled attack vehicles and torpedoes until after Tesla's patents had expired. Even then, they began researching it over from scratch, rather than working with his established techniques.
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/mad-science/nikola-tesla/
Especially ignoble, in that after his death, Nikola Tesla was pretty much ignored by historians for decades, while Edison was given whole library shelves of praise.
http://www.davearcher.com/Machines.html

OK, now turn around and look at how much of his work is now in physics textbooks, that the SI magnetic flux is named after him, he was on the cover of Time, etc... etc.

So how are these "proofs" that he was ignored or forgotten? How is this any different than many other famous scientists and engineers throughout history? Why are we obsessed with Tesla and ignoring all the others? This is why I asked way in the beginning. Why is this any different than many others?

If I don't know any better, I'd say there is a Tesla cult out there.

Zz.

[Pravoslavan]

OK, now turn around and look at how much of his work is now in physics textbooks, that the SI magnetic flux is named after him, he was on the cover of Time, etc... etc.
So how are these "proofs" that he was ignored or forgotten? How is this any different than many other famous scientists and engineers throughout history? Why are we obsessed with Tesla and ignoring all the others? This is why I asked way in the beginning. Why is this any different than many others?
If I don't know any better, I'd say there is a Tesla cult out there.
Zz.

Ofcourse that there is a lot of his work in textbooks because we can learn a lot from him....... not from Edison who used scientists to get rich.
SI unit for magnetic flux is proof how great he was, but "joke" with Nobel prize is proof how they tried to ignore him, but still using his ideas.

There is no Tesla cult, we are not obsessed with Tesla, if you think that I can tell you right now that you are obsessed. I suggest you to read this, I posted that already...
http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tradio.txt

pay attention on the last paragraph....

[Integral]

There is no Tesla cult, we are not obsessed with Tesla

Really.~^ Your posts say otherwise. If you are not obsessed with Tesla then why are we having this conversation.

Perhaps a significant portion of why Tesla did not get more recognition from his contemporaries is that he lost credibility during the final years of his life. This due to his schizophrenia.

Currently Tesla's name is more in the public eye then Edison. I mean have you ever heard of a rock band called Edison? :biggrin:

[zoobyshoe]

Perhaps a significant portion of why Tesla did not get more recognition from his contemporaries is that he lost credibility during the final years of his life. This due to his schizophrenia.
Scizophrenia is the wrong diagnosis. Tesla obviously suffered from OCD all his life and his final strangeness was a result of this. Howard Hughes was affected by it in much the same way, although his was exacerbated by drug use. Telsa also probably has something like alzheimers toward the end. There were times he was grossly disoriented about what year it was.

[ZapperZ]

Ofcourse that there is a lot of his work in textbooks because we can learn a lot from him....... not from Edison who used scientists to get rich.

But you are agreeing to my point earlier that scientists and engineers DO NOT ignore Tesla. If you agree with this particular observation, then your whole point that he is "ignored" or forgotten (as the topic implied) is false! This is what I've been trying to highlight.

SI unit for magnetic flux is proof how great he was, but "joke" with Nobel prize is proof how they tried to ignore him, but still using his ideas.
There is no Tesla cult, we are not obsessed with Tesla, if you think that I can tell you right now that you are obsessed. I suggest you to read this, I posted that already...
http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tradio.txt
pay attention on the last paragraph....

Puhleeze! There are SEVERAL deserving people who should have received the Nobel prize, but didn't. Rosalind Franklin deserves one, and her "fans" have more of a gripe to say that she was forgotten MORE than Tesla. After all, you don't see her name assigned to anything in textbooks.

Again, I can rattle of a bunch of names that are deserving recognition as much, if not more, than Tesla. You are the one focusing on him in particular, not me. In the engineering and scientific circles, Tesla is not ignored, and certainly not forgotten. So how is such a stand reflects an "obsession"?

Zz.

[Pravoslavan]

Really.~^ Your posts say otherwise. If you are not obsessed with Tesla then why are we having this conversation.

Hmmmm.... let me see...... maybe because this is a forum and forum is for having conversation !!!

[Pravoslavan]

But you are agreeing to my point earlier that scientists and engineers DO NOT ignore Tesla. If you agree with this particular observation, then your whole point that he is "ignored" or forgotten (as the topic implied) is false! This is what I've been trying to highlight.



Ok, lets clear this...... I say that he IS IGNORED as long as most of the books says that Marconi invented radio, Roentgen X-rays, De Forest vacuum tube amp, or some other guy invented fluoroscent bulb etc.
This is what I call ignoring.....

Edison invented bulb my ***.... he invented electric chair while he was showing how Tesla`s AC is dangerous by killing animals in public. Because of people like Edison, Tesla is marginalized, but he will never be forgoten. Future will show the truth.
And if some people dont like to talk about Tesla, why are they posting in this thread... helloouuu there is no Tesla cult, he deserves more than 3 pages of discusion....

[ZapperZ]

Ok, lets clear this...... I say that he IS IGNORED as long as most of the books says that Marconi invented radio, Roentgen X-rays, De Forest vacuum tube amp, or some other guy invented fluoroscent bulb etc.
This is what I call ignoring.....
Edison invented bulb my ***.... he invented electric chair while he was showing how Tesla`s AC is dangerous by killing animals in public. Because of people like Edison, Tesla is marginalized, but he will never be forgoten. Future will show the truth.
And if some people dont like to talk about Tesla, why are they posting in this thread... helloouuu there is no Tesla cult, he deserves more than 3 pages of discusion....

So the PBS documentary doesn't count? The Time magazine cover doesn't count? Do a search on the number of books written about Tesla. On Amazon alone you get more than 200!! This doesn't count either?

And don't shove your bitterness at me, thankyouverymuch! I am not the one who is pushing all of this to the public. If you have a problem with it, DO SOMETHING rather than whine about it on here. Write to the editors of those books at point to them the SOURCE of the error and give them the accurate reference! If you think the Patent Office made a mistake, WRITE A REBUTTAL!

Tesla is not being ignored, and what *I* mean by saying that is all the above! And IF, even with ALL that, you still consider that he is being "ignored", then tough! There are many other deserving scientists throughout history that did not get their deserved recognition. How many books do you think there are on Rosalind Franklin, or Julian Schwinger? This is not uncommon. There's nothing special at all about this.

Zz.

[zoobyshoe]

Things get invented, forgotten and reinvented. Things get invented and not published and other people invent them not knowing it's already been done. I understand that a Russian experimenter preceeded Franklin by a few weeks in proving that lighning was electricity. No one remembers that Russian's name. How many separate Cro-Magnons do you suppose discovered a way to start a fire from scratch? Is it a tragedy for them that we don't know the circumstances and don't know their names? Who invented the wheel? Who invented the fishing net, or the boat? The bow and arrow? Bronze? Steel? No one knows.

[Rade]

Thanks for your reply. Tesla was born in Croatia but he was a Serbian, right? I have been intereseted in his biography and career. Do you know any other famous Serbian scientists and inventors ? If so, can you share it with me?See this link to Serbian scientists:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Serbian_scientists
Next to Tesla, perhaps the most important was Serbian Mileva Maric who taught her young husband, Albert Einstein, mathematics. You can read about her here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mileva_Maric
Where you will find this little known factoid:
Biographer Abram Joffe claims to have seen an original manuscript for the theory of relativity which was signed, "Einstein-Maric".

[ZapperZ]

See this link to Serbian scientists:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Serbian_scientists
Next to Tesla, perhaps the most important was Serbian Mileva Maric who taught her young husband, Albert Einstein, mathematics. You can read about her here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mileva_Maric
Where you will find this little known factoid:
Biographer Abram Joffe claims to have seen an original manuscript for the theory of relativity which was signed, "Einstein-Maric".

Again, be very weary of your source, especially with biography on Wikipedia. Read a couple of threads on Wikipedia being discussed in the GD forum

As for the issue of Einstein-"Maric" as it relates to Joffe's claim, read this:

http://physicsweb.org/articles/world/17/4/2

Zz.

[Pravoslavan]

So the PBS documentary doesn't count? The Time magazine cover doesn't count? Do a search on the number of books written about Tesla. On Amazon alone you get more than 200!! This doesn't count either?
You can`t expect some scientist to be ignored 100%... someone will notice good ideas, but what do you say on fact that in my classroom (I`m student of Electrical Engineering Technology) NO ONE KNOWS who was Tesla ? Canadians in Toronto do not know who made hydro plant on Niagara falls...... THAT IS IGONORING of Tesla ! But everybody will say that Edison invented bulb and Graham Bell was Canadian who invented phone ... :)
What is more important.... a bulb or AC current ? That bulb would be almost useless without AC current. Pople are not informed about great scientists and that is ignoring, not just in Tesla`s case, like you said there is Rosalind Franklin, or Julian Schwinger....

And don't shove your bitterness at me, thankyouverymuch! I am not the one who is pushing all of this to the public. If you have a problem with it, DO SOMETHING rather than whine about it on here.

I`m not the one who have problem with it, I think that some people here have problem with understanding what is the purpose of forum....

[TheStatutoryApe]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tesla+cult
There are Tesla Cults.
There are even claims that a particular cult used his work to create flying saucers and flew to Venus in them lol.
Nikola Tesla is like an underground conspiracy messiah.

[zoobyshoe]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tesla+cult
There are Tesla Cults.
There are even claims that a particular cult used his work to create flying saucers and flew to Venus in them lol.
I read somewhere that Tesla is still alive in a secret compound in South America which is also his Flying Saucer base. After he perfected the Flying Saucer he went and picked Marconi up and talked him into joining his private gang of super-engineers.

[Averagesupernova]

That bulb would be almost useless without AC current.

Gosh I guess that's why we have ALTERNATORS on our cars and trucks so all the lights aren't useless. :rofl:

Seriously though, you can't expect people to take anything you say seriously when you come with stuff like that. I think it would be more accurate to say that our power distribution system would be useless without AC.

Back when electricity first became practical it was VERY common for people who did not have access to the utilities to have a small DC power plant and a set of batteries. It was a 32 volt system. Often several appliances, one being a washing machine, would share a single electric motor that was moved between them. It was also not uncommon to have wind driven generators. Google for "32 volt delco plant" and you will see what I mean.

The reason people don't know who Tesla is is because they simply haven't been told about him. There really aren't that many people alive today who were alive when Tesla was so that's what we have to rely on.

For the record Pravo, you would fit in well with a Tesla cult. And yes, they do exist.

[russ_watters]

As is often the case, the enabling technology (AC power) is forgotton, and the invention we use every day (the light bulb) is remembered. That's life - anyone who isn't an engineer or physicist probably doesn't know the first thing about how electricity works, so there is no reason for them to know that Tesla is the reason for AC power. But they do know that they can't live without light bulbs.

[Chi Meson]

Canadians in Toronto do not know who made hydro plant on Niagara falls...... THAT IS IGONORING of Tesla !
As Zz said, this is just ignorence, a symptom of a larger problem. There is no conspiracy against Tesla.
But everybody will say that Edison invented bulb and Graham Bell was Canadian who invented phone ... :)
People in US will say Graham Bell was the AMerican who invented the telephone. People in Scotland say he was the Scot who invented the telephone.

I`m not the one who have problem with it, I think that some people here have problem with understanding what is the purpose of forum....
Listen "post count zero,":wink: don't you be telling Zz he doesn't understand what this forum is about!

[zoobyshoe]

That's life - anyone who isn't an engineer or physicist probably doesn't know the first thing about how electricity works, so there is no reason for them to know that Tesla is the reason for AC power.
Actually, Westinghouse is the reason for AC power. Tesla didn't invent or discover AC, it's the natural product of a dynamo unless you specifically configure it for DC. Everyone did that, because they had no idea how to use AC. Westinghouse found out that AC could be generated at very high voltages making long distance transmission viable, so he went hunting for any and all patents for AC operated devices. He talked to a few different inventors and decided he liked Tesla's AC stuff the best. The fact Tesla's patents had preceeded everyone elses was not a consideration for Westinghouse. He was doing business. He wanted to pull the rug out from beneath Edison and grab that market. Therefore he just went with the AC systems he felt were best.

The Electricity War was really Edison, the company, verses Westinghouse, the company, not Edison, the man, verses Tesla, the man.

[TheStatutoryApe]

Actually, Westinghouse is the reason for AC power. Tesla didn't invent or discover AC, it's the natural product of a dynamo unless you specifically configure it for DC. Everyone did that, because they had no idea how to use AC. Westinghouse found out that AC could be generated at very high voltages making long distance transmission viable, so he went hunting for any and all patents for AC operated devices. He talked to a few different inventors and decided he liked Tesla's AC stuff the best. The fact Tesla's patents had preceeded everyone elses was not a consideration for Westinghouse. He was doing business. He wanted to pull the rug out from beneath Edison and grab that market. Therefore he just went with the AC systems he felt were best.
The Electricity War was really Edison, the company, verses Westinghouse, the company, not Edison, the man, verses Tesla, the man.
From what I had read AC was one of Tesla's first big discoveries. The biography I read also indicated, if I remember correctly, that the war was partially fueled by an Edison/Tesla feud and involved attacks directed at Tesla himself. Both Edison and Tesla were actively involved in the campaigning I believe.

[zoobyshoe]

From what I had read AC was one of Tesla's first big discoveries.
I don't believe this is the case. I could be wrong but I think AC was always known about simply due to the fact it is what comes out if you rotate a magnet near a coil - north-south-north-south, and so on. If I recall correctly they had to spend some effort figuring out how to make a generator generate DC, which is a more complex set up. Tesla's polyphase motors and induction motors were remarkable in that it showed how AC could be of great practical use. If there aren't things down the line that can operate off the AC then long distance transmission of AC is encumbered by having to rectify it before use, which means more equipment and losses. His patents were exactly what Westinghouse needed to make his AC distribution system even more appealing.
The biography I read also indicated, if I remember correctly, that the war was partially fueled by an Edison/Tesla feud and involved attacks directed at Tesla himself. Both Edison and Tesla were actively involved in the campaigning I believe.
Edison and Tesla once had a brief argument about AC verses DC when Tesla worked for Edison. Tesla broached the subject and started telling Edison what could be accomplished with AC. Edison stopped him short and said something like "Here in America, Tesla, we use DC." That was pretty much it. Tesla didn't push it. What eventually made Tesla intensely ticked off at Edison was that Edison reneged on a huge bonus he'd promised if Tesla got all his dynamos in good working order. Tesla spent about a year on this, but when he went for his bonus Edison claimed he'd just been joking and Tesla should have realized it. Tesla quit on the spot and went to digging ditches for a living rather than work for Edison anymore. That was the root of the feud. Not AC vs DC.
I have a great, detailed book called The Electrical Manufacturers which is a history of the subject covering 1875 to 1900. It was really Edison against Westinghouse. Tesla participated, of course, but not as a major opponent to Edison, rather as a helper to Westinghouse. And on the Edison side, yes, Edison lead the campaign himself. He found himself a very unpleasant kind of henchman named Harold P. Brown, who was the one who started demonstrating how dangerous AC was by electrocuting dogs. Edison turned Westinghouse' name into a verb. To "westinghouse" an animal or person was to kill it by electrocution with AC. He refered to people executed in the electric chair as having been "westinghoused". He was really trying to poison people's minds against it.

[Mk]

I heard near the end of his life he started talking to pigeons, and castrated himself. :surprised

Is it true?

[zoobyshoe]

I heard near the end of his life he started talking to pigeons, and castrated himself. :surprised
Is it true?
Pigeons yes. Self-castration I have never once ever heard such a thing about him.

[Curious3141]

From what I had read AC was one of Tesla's first big discoveries. The biography I read also indicated, if I remember correctly, that the war was partially fueled by an Edison/Tesla feud and involved attacks directed at Tesla himself. Both Edison and Tesla were actively involved in the campaigning I believe.

When I was a kid, there were always these little quizzes asked of kids, focusing on major inventions and the responsible inventors. I thought nothing of it then, I thought the men (and rarely women) were being given due credit for brilliant work.

Now, I'm not sure at all of that. I've realised assigning honor to a single person for a discovery or invention is a far more nebulous exercise than most people realise, or care to admit. But it seems people need a popular icon of some sort; we're often more comfortable with giving the wrong person all the credit than admitting we don't know any better.

Did Tesla even invent AC ? I don't know - I've seen very compelling writeups that claim it was Charles Proteus Steinmetz all along. In fact, as Russ pointed out, the vociferous "cult of personality" crackpots surrounding Tesla actually detract from serious study about the assignation of credit for the inventions that may or may not have come from him.

Russ made another excellent point here :

As is often the case, the enabling technology (AC power) is forgotton, and the invention we use every day (the light bulb) is remembered. That's life - anyone who isn't an engineer or physicist probably doesn't know the first thing about how electricity works, so there is no reason for them to know that Tesla is the reason for AC power. But they do know that they can't live without light bulbs.

There's a kernel of profound truth in that observation. Take the car for instance. Get a random poll of people off the street and ask them who invented the car. Let's leave what I think will turn out to be the most common answer to later.

The "more knowledgeable" among those polled may answer "Karl Benz". Yet even this is forgetting Etienne Lenoir, the (supposed) inventor of the internal combustion engine, who essentially enabled all this. Pertaining to the car itself, Cugnot is most likely to be ignored, even though he came up with the steam propelled prototype (we think).

All of the above are answers that I would consider fairly reasonable. But I expect that the most common answer would turn out to be "Henry Ford", even though he had little to do with the invention of the basic concept, but a lot to do with making and marketing a commercially viable model.

So the paradigm holds : Enablers are hardly known, inventors are occasionally known and oft forgotten, marketers are enshrined in popular culture.

But does it really matter anyway ? Society moves on through these inventions - and don't we all "stand on the shoulders of giants" ? Zoobyshoe also made a great point in this respect.

I know that last aphorism was said by someone great, but I couldn't initially remember who it was (I had to google). But in the spirit of non-attribution which I'm beginning to favor over mis-attribution, I shall leave the quote unacknowledged. :biggrin:

[zoobyshoe]

From what I had read AC was one of Tesla's first big discoveries.
In 1832, a generator built by a French mechanician produced alternating current for the first time in the history of electrical engineering.

http://www.scitech.mtesz.hu/51landmark/zipernov.htm

Oh, why does the average man at PF think Tesla invented AC when the true French genius' very name is ignored and forgotten?

[TheStatutoryApe]

http://www.scitech.mtesz.hu/51landmark/zipernov.htm

Oh, why does the average man at PF think Tesla invented AC when the true French genius' very name is ignored and forgotten?
Lol... Sorry:redface: It was just the book I read that made it seem that way.

[zoobyshoe]

Lol... Sorry:redface: It was just the book I read that made it seem that way.
I think most of the books on Tesla stack the weights such that everything leans toward the reader assuming he was the first to think up the concept, yes.

I'm rereading "The Electrical Manufacturers" a little bit on the subject of AC history, and it seems Westinghouse got the idea of a public utility based on it from an article he read about a demonstration of an AC system that was on display in London at an Exhibit of Inventions designed by two guys named Gaulard and Gibbs (whose ever heard of them?). The special point of interest was the inclusion of transformers to step the voltage down from transmission levels to user levels.

Westinghouse understood the signifigance instantly because he had worked out, and implemented, similar idea for lowering the line pressure of household gas delivery lines once it got to the house: he simply increased the diameter of the pipes where they lead from the main line into the home, which lowered the pressure. This London exhibit provided him with a way to do this with electricity. But it had to be AC, of course.

I was wrong before when I said he checked out a "few" inventors for AC motors. There were only two: Tesla and an Italian inventor. Originally he was just going to buy up all patents on AC motors, simply to exclude any rival company from access to the good ideas. Then he realized the Italian's patents weren't good enough to be worth buying, and the important one's were Tesla's: they covered every possible usable configuration as far as he could tell.

[Andy]

What a legend, its a real shame that some of the conspiracies that surround him overshadow his acheivements. That death ray sounds soo cool though, i want one.

[Pravoslavan]

For the record Pravo, you would fit in well with a Tesla cult. And yes, they do exist.


Go medicate yourself man, you have some sirious problems.... i wish you all the best ! :yuck: