Imaging the Palimpsest
http://www.archimedespalimpsest.org/imaging_initialtrials1.html
Astronuc
Apr28-07, 07:43 PM
Text reveals more ancient secrets
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6591221.stm
Experts are "lost for words" to have found that a medieval prayer book has yielded yet another key ancient text buried within its parchment.
Works by mathematician Archimedes and the politician Hyperides had already been found buried within the book, known as the Archimedes Palimpsest.
But now advanced imaging technology has revealed a third text - a commentary on the philosopher Aristotle.
Project director William Noel called it a "sensational find".
The prayer book was written in the 13th Century by a scribe called John Myronas.
But instead of using fresh parchment for his work, he employed pages from five existing books.
Dr Noel, curator of manuscripts at the US-based Walters Art Museum and a co-author of a forthcoming book on the Archimedes Palimpsest, said: "It's a rather brutal process, but it means you can reuse parchment if you are short of it. How cool is that!? :cool:
Evo
Apr28-07, 08:32 PM
I know parchment was hard to come by at times, but how could anyone destroy such great works to write prayer books? It's mind boggling.
MeJennifer
Apr28-07, 08:46 PM
I know parchment was hard to come by at times, but how could anyone destroy such great works to write prayer books? It's mind boggling.
Not really, placed in historical context it is quite explanable.
The church was everything in these times, Greek philosophy was hardly tolerated.
And by analogy, it might very well be the case that for instance most people in the future are mind boggled about the destruction of the rainforests in our time.
Type 7
Apr28-07, 09:00 PM
The articles on the Palimpsest that I've read have mentioned that were it not for the reuse of these parchments it's likely the original works would have been lost forever. By preserving these recycled prayer books, the Christian monks preserved the ancient manuscripts as well, however unwittingly.
Evo
Apr28-07, 09:49 PM
The articles on the Palimpsest that I've read have mentioned that were it not for the reuse of these parchments it's likely the original works would have been lost forever. By preserving these recycled prayer books, the Christian monks preserved the ancient manuscripts as well, however unwittingly.True, but a lot was also lost. They could have just as easily stored the originals without destroying them, but as mejennifer pointed out, they weren't as significant during those times.
There is a similar restoration going on with ancient texts being salvaged from an Egyptian garbage dump.
Astronuc
Apr29-07, 08:41 AM
We can be grateful that the manuscripts were preserved. Think of what has been destroyed throughout history, e.g. during the destruction of the Library of Alexandria.
It is amazing that anything written before the Dark Ages survived! And given the parchment is organic material, I am always amazed that stuff survives for 2000 years or more. I wonder what will survive 2000 years hence.
arildno
Apr29-07, 03:23 PM
Hmm..the palimpsest is from the 9th century.
Archimedes' text (or rather the 9th century copy of it) was rubbed out some centuries later.
Astronuc
Apr29-07, 07:37 PM
True - then it has survived ~ 1000 years, which is still amazing. But the text - a copy - of Archimedes still survived. It wasn't lost.
But the Dead Sea Scrolls, which are perhaps from the first century CE - have survived ~2000 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls
arildno
Apr30-07, 04:12 AM
No. The Dead Sea Scrolls is from the 4th century.
They are definitely not from the 1st century, since it is a collection of texts heavily influenced by Gnostic ideas.
Gnosticism developed during the 2nd century, not the 1st.
arildno
Apr30-07, 04:14 AM
True - then it has survived ~ 1000 years, which is still amazing. But the text - a copy - of Archimedes still survived. It wasn't lost.
Indeed we should be thankful for that. :smile:
ray b
Jun22-07, 09:06 PM
No. The Dead Sea Scrolls is from the 4th century.
They are definitely not from the 1st century, since it is a collection of texts heavily influenced by Gnostic ideas.
Gnosticism developed during the 2nd century, not the 1st.
????
where did you get that date
btw Gnosticism was early and was wiped out by the 4th or a little there after
post the mainstream church take over there was the arian sub-cult
I date the Gnosticism as a very early christian sub cult
but donot see it as the dead sea cults main idea as they were jews
and the books were hidden about the fall of the temple in the early 70's
ray b
Jun22-07, 09:14 PM
btw the christians burned far far more older books then they saved
old quote
''the church fathers use the ancient knowlage to heat their bath waters''
some because they hated learning and also because they did not want the roots of their religion traced to the older beliefs
In 1947, young Bedouin shepherds, searching for a stray goat in the Judean Desert, entered a long-untouched cave and found jars filled with ancient scrolls. That initial discovery by the Bedouins yielded seven scrolls and began a search that lasted nearly a decade and eventually produced thousands of scroll fragments from eleven caves. During those same years, archaeologists searching for a habitation close to the caves that might help identify the people who deposited the scrolls, excavated the Qumran ruin, a complex of structures located on a barren terrace between the cliffs where the caves are found and the Dead Sea. Within a fairly short time after their discovery, historical, paleographic, and linguistic evidence, as well as carbon-14 dating, established that the scrolls and the Qumran ruin dated from the third century B.C.E. to 68 C.E. They were indeed ancient! Coming from the late Second Temple Period, a time when Jesus of Nazareth lived, they are older than any other surviving biblical manuscripts by almost one thousand years.
arildno
Jul2-07, 03:46 AM
Tighter estimates on the age of the manuscripts can be found in this link:
http://www.physics.arizona.edu/physics/public/dead-sea.html
Seems I was wrong.
Astronuc
Jul2-07, 07:34 AM
Or one was thinking of the Gnostic gospels, which were written during first and second century CE.