Why no lightning in winter?

[alexbib]

Does anybody know why there are very few thunderstorms during winter?(well, here in Montreal, lightning strikes almost never happen during winter, while they do happen during summer) Maybe it's got to do with the level of humidity in the air?

[chroot]

Thunderstorms require updrafts that are caused by the evaporation of water in a sort of self-reinforcing process that builds enormously tall cumulonimbus clouds.

Without enough moisture in the air, the process doesn't happen, just as you suspected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderstorm

- Warren

[Janus]

Originally posted by chroot
Thunderstorms require updrafts that are caused by the evaporation of water in a sort of self-reinforcing process that builds enormously tall cumulonimbus clouds.

Without enough moisture in the air, the process doesn't happen, just as you suspected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderstorm

- Warren

Another key word here is "updrafts". Gnerally updrafts are caused by warm air moving upwards and are generated by the Sun's heating. In the Winter, the Sun's surface heating is lessened, and also its ability to generate the needed updrafts.

[alexbib]

Cool! Thx guys.

[chrismcgrain]

check this out, thunder and lightening in a snow cloud?? can you explain this because i though it was not possible

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL4vou2tars

[PhanthomJay]

check this out, thunder and lightening in a snow cloud?? can you explain this because i though it was not possible

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL4vou2tarsLooks like the often misnamed 'Heat Lightning', which actually is 'cloud - to - cloud' lightning as opposed to 'cloud - to - ground lightning' . The misnomer 'heat lightning' stems from the fact that often you cannot hear the clap of thunder in such events. Living in New England , I've been through a few severe snowstorms with lightning (thunder snow) present, and wow, these are huge storms with cold air on the north and west side of the Low Pressure area, and warm moist air, on the south and southeast side, feeding in from the southern states and from the southeast warmer waters of the Atlantic Ocean. A marvel of nature to behold, but a pain in the back from snow shoveling the next day (I won't tell you where the real pain is :wink:).

Edit: I didn't realize how old the original post was! Say, Chris, are you from Ireland, are ya?

[Sniperman724]

Doesn't lightning only occur in high humidity as well? In the winter, there is barely any humidity in the air, so there's no lightning. Right?

[turbo]

Doesn't lightning only occur in high humidity as well? In the winter, there is barely any humidity in the air, so there's no lightning. Right?We usually have thundersnow at least a couple of times each winter. Maine is in a kind of unique place, though, in which we can get arctic highs spilling in from Canada and colliding with warmer, wetter air coming up the Eastern seaboard and off the Gulf of Maine. I'm not sure how the mechanics work, but it's probably got something to do with cold, dense air masses diving under the warmer, moist air and causing those to rise quickly.

[Sniperman724]

oh okay, because now that I think of it, here in Jersey, I don't remember there being any thundersnow that I can think of, so its different everywhere around the world.

[Evo]

I've been in snowstorms with lightning, it does happen.

Thunder and lightning can be associated with snowstorms but they are rare and occur more often near the coast.

http://nsidc.org/snow/faq.html

[DaveC426913]

I do not live near a (marine) coast, but I have heard thunder in winter. It's rare but not that rare.

[turbo]

I do not live near a (marine) coast, but I have heard thunder in winter. It's rare but not that rare.The sound of thunder probably does not carry as well through a blizzard, and people are generally inside when it's winter and the weather is conducive to such storms. I try to get outside a lot, though, and since we have a dog who loves late-night walks with me, I probably see more of the flashes and detect more of the rumbles than most people. It's pretty quiet out here in the boonies.

I can sleep through almost anything except perhaps that occasional BAM! that jumps you out of bed in the summer when a cold front intrudes and there is a close strike.

[PhanthomJay]

Doesn't lightning only occur in high humidity as well? In the winter, there is barely any humidity in the air, so there's no lightning. Right? Wrong:wink:. If it's 32 degrees F (0 degrees C), and the dew point is also 32 degrees F (0 degrees C), then the relative humidity is 100 percent. That means that the air is fully saturated, although at these temperatures, the air cannot hold as much moisture as air at summertime 90 degrees F readings (37 celsius). For this reason, lightning during winter temperatures (I'm not talking Florida winters!) is not a usual event. So that is why when it does occur, you find yourself in one doozy of a storm, with very sharp temperature contrasts between the cold air layer to the north and the overriding warm air layer to the south.

[PhanthomJay]

I do not live near a (marine) coast, but I have heard thunder in winter. It's rare but not that rare. I agree. Here in the heart of Red Sox Nation, we usually see, on average, 1 thundersnow event per winter. I have a love/hate relationship with this display of nature. :!!)/:mad:

[russ_watters]

Wrong:wink:. If it's 32 degrees F (0 degrees C), and the dew point is also 32 degrees F (0 degrees C), then the relative humidity is 100 percent. That means that the air is fully saturated, although at these temperatures, the air cannot hold as much moisture as air at summertime 90 degrees F readings (37 celsius). For this reason, lightning during winter temperatures (I'm not talking Florida winters!) is not a usual event. So that is why when it does occur, you find yourself in one doozy of a storm, with very sharp temperature contrasts between the cold air layer to the north and the overriding warm air layer to the south. Relative humidity is lower in the winter for much of the US. That's why there is more frost in the fall than in the winter and why it is cloudier in the summer than winter. It's also why the UFO-contrail "sightings" are more prevalent in the fall and winter.

[chrismcgrain]

Looks like the often misnamed 'Heat Lightning', which actually is 'cloud - to - cloud' lightning as opposed to 'cloud - to - ground lightning' . The misnomer 'heat lightning' stems from the fact that often you cannot hear the clap of thunder in such events. Living in New England , I've been through a few severe snowstorms with lightning (thunder snow) present, and wow, these are huge storms with cold air on the north and west side of the Low Pressure area, and warm moist air, on the south and southeast side, feeding in from the southern states and from the southeast warmer waters of the Atlantic Ocean. A marvel of nature to behold, but a pain in the back from snow shoveling the next day (I won't tell you where the real pain is :wink:).

Edit: I didn't realize how old the original post was! Say, Chris, are you from Ireland, are ya?

yes i'm from Cork in Ireland but i was in dublin when this happening, i though it was really wierd, i'v been travelling around asia and australia and seen some really impressive lightening storms due to humidity but i'v never seen it when it's been so cold plus the snow was falling heavy, in big golfball sized clumps

[PhanthomJay]

yes i'm from Cork in Ireland but i was in dublin when this happening, i though it was really wierd, i'v been travelling around asia and australia and seen some really impressive lightening storms due to humidity but i'v never seen it when it's been so cold plus the snow was falling heavy, in big golfball sized clumpsYes, lightning in winter is associated with intense areas of low pressure with moisture influx. I don't know much about Dublin weather (except it rains a lot, I'm told, and everything is GREEN). I can only attest to New England (USA) weather , based on 50 years of experience, unfortunately.

Relative humidity is lower in the winter for much of the US. That's why there is more frost in the fall than in the winter and why it is cloudier in the summer than winter. It's also why the UFO-contrail "sightings" are more prevalent in the fall and winter.That's for sure, a good chunk of the US sees relatively dry air in the winter, even during snow storms where the moisture laden air falls fom the clouds above into the drier air, creating a fluffy loose dry 'powder' snow. All bets are off however along the NE US coast when large intense low pressure areas regenerate off the Carolinas coast, bringing in warm, moisture laden air from the waters to the south, clashing with the colder polar air imported from the jetstream, causing rain/snow events with high relative humidity and fog and rare but not that rare occasional thundersnow for the real intense storms, which I see sometimes once or maybe twice a year tops, but sometimes not at all for a year or 2. Depends.

[John Mario]

Looks like the often misnamed 'Heat Lightning', which actually is 'cloud - to - cloud' lightning as opposed to 'cloud - to - ground lightning' . The misnomer 'heat lightning' stems from the fact that often you cannot hear the clap of thunder in such events. Living in New England , I've been through a few severe snowstorms with lightning (thunder snow) present, and wow, these are huge storms with cold air on the north and west side of the Low Pressure area, and warm moist air, on the south and southeast side, feeding in from the southern states and from the southeast warmer waters of the Atlantic Ocean. A marvel of nature to behold, but a pain in the back from snow shoveling the next day (I won't tell you where the real pain is :wink:).

Edit: I didn't realize how old the original post was! Say, Chris, are you from Ireland, are ya?

Some of the most powerful storms we've had were pulling in tropical air from the Gulf of Mexico on one side while pulling down cold dry air from Canada on the other side. Regardless of the season, this is a recipe for thunderstorms. I often view the windcasts on the Internet. The winds are not strictly around the low pressure systems and high pressure systems. The winds actually spiral away from the high pressure systems toward the low pressure systems. The first time I saw this on a windcast map, I was surprised. A low pressure system of the western coast of Florida was drawing winds from a high pressure system off the coast of Maine resulting in a cold northeast wind from Maine to Florida.

[turbo]

Some of the most powerful storms we've had were pulling in tropical air from the Gulf of Mexico on one side while pulling down cold dry air from Canada on the other side. Regardless of the season, this is a recipe for thunderstorms. I often view the windcasts on the Internet. The winds are not strictly around the low pressure systems and high pressure systems. The winds actually spiral away from the high pressure systems toward the low pressure systems. The first time I saw this on a windcast map, I was surprised. A low pressure system of the western coast of Florida was drawing winds from a high pressure system off the coast of Maine resulting in a cold northeast wind from Maine to Florida.Yep, never underestimate the power of the heat-sink that is the Gulf of Maine or the heat-sink that is the Gulf of Mexico.

[Sniperman724]

I agree. Here in the heart of Red Sox Nation, we usually see, on average, 1 thundersnow event per winter. I have a love/hate relationship with this display of nature. :!!)/:mad:

Oh okay, I live in the yankee part of the country( New Jersey :tongue:) and I've never heard of any thundersnow around me at all

[RebelRiver]

Does anybody know why there are very few thunderstorms during winter?(well, here in Montreal, lightning strikes almost never happen during winter, while they do happen during summer) Maybe it's got to do with the level of humidity in the air?

In the winter its just not warm enough to produce a thunderstorm in the first place, so no lightning.

[DaveC426913]

In the winter its just not warm enough to produce a thunderstorm in the first place, so no lightning.

Read anything after post 1, you may find that's not quite the case.

[PhanthomJay]

oh okay, because now that I think of it, here in Jersey, I don't remember there being any thundersnow that I can think of, so its different everywhere around the world.Last week's 'blizzard' along the Atlantic Coast brought 'thundersnow' to several areas. There were a couple about 40 miles from me in SE MA and RI that brought snowfall rates up to an incredible 4 inches/hour for a short time period. There was a big one over Long Island Sound, and I think a couple in the NY/Jersey coastal area. Did you hear or see it?

[Sniperman724]

Last week's 'blizzard' along the Atlantic Coast brought 'thundersnow' to several areas. There were a couple about 40 miles from me in SE MA and RI that brought snowfall rates up to an incredible 4 inches/hour for a short time period. There was a big one over Long Island Sound, and I think a couple in the NY/Jersey coastal area. Did you hear or see it?
During that snowstorm I haven't heard or seen any 'thundersnow' around where I live. I live in central Jersey about 20 minutes from the coast. All we got was a whiteout and horrible snow plowers.. LOL

[PhanthomJay]

All we got was a whiteout and horrible snow plowers.. LOLOur plowers were too good....everytime I shoveled out my driveway, they blocked it up again :grumpy:.

Have a Happy.....:smile:

[Sniperman724]

ah, you got it good then, we had to complain for three days for the plows to get to our street, then they ended up getting stuck.. It wasn't too pleasant..